RX8 Restoration (long)
03-23-2013, 05:33 PM
#101
weeeeeeeeee
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The AP cleaned up nicely!
A couple others things to consider tweaking now that you've got "control":
A couple others things to consider tweaking now that you've got "control":
- Lower Fan A and Fan B start temperatures
- Increased OMP flow (RPM & Load)
- Lower cold run RPM limit
03-23-2013, 09:25 PM
#102
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The cold run RPM limit, I don't ever tach over 3k before reach op temp in any of my cars, but it's probably a good idea to do it in case I loan the car to someone else... or sell it.
Thanks again for the fast shipping. I'm finally able to mess with the Mazda like I've been messing with my Subarus for years. It's kind of liberating.
If I could only figure out the cruise thing. I think the A/T PCM takes the neutral switch input for cruise on a different physical pin than the M/T. Time to get to work.
Cheers
Ryan
03-24-2013, 10:05 AM
#104
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I was thinking more just the tables for fan start and MOP flow rather than the entire map. Plus, they're for an '04, something would probably not work on my '05 if I copied / pasted the entire map.
30% increase across the board for MOP flow or should I dial it back a bit?
30% increase across the board for MOP flow or should I dial it back a bit?
03-24-2013, 10:35 AM
#105
weeeeeeeeee
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I think the MOP maxxes at 60. Something that has always intrigued me is that we (the 4 ports) got the 6 port table.
In the map I'm using now I copied the 9000-7000 rpm columns down to 7000 and interpolated the middle.
In the map I'm using now I copied the 9000-7000 rpm columns down to 7000 and interpolated the middle.
Code:
700 720 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000 8500 9000 6 3 3 3 3 3 4 6 7 8 9 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 20 21 13 3 3 3 4 4 5 7 9 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 27 29 31 33 19 3 4 5 5 7 8 13 15 18 21 21 24 24 30 33 36 39 42 45 25 3 5 6 7 9 11 16 18 21 23 22 26 27 31 36 38 45 45 45 31 3 7 7 8 11 14 19 22 23 24 24 29 31 38 40 45 50 55 60 38 3 8 9 10 13 16 22 24 24 25 28 33 35 40 45 50 55 60 60 44 3 9 10 12 15 19 22 24 26 29 30 37 38 42 45 52 60 60 60 50 3 10 11 13 17 21 27 30 33 36 36 41 42 45 52 60 60 60 60 56 3 11 13 15 19 24 27 31 34 38 42 45 49 52 60 60 60 60 60 63 3 13 14 16 21 26 30 34 39 43 47 52 56 60 60 60 60 60 60 69 3 14 15 18 23 29 34 38 43 47 51 56 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 75 3 15 17 20 26 31 37 43 47 52 56 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 81 3 16 18 21 28 34 40 46 51 55 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 88 3 17 19 23 30 40 47 50 55 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 94 3 19 21 30 40 47 50 53 55 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 100 3 20 30 40 47 57 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 106 3 21 40 44 57 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60
Last edited by ShellDude; 03-24-2013 at 11:06 AM.
03-24-2013, 12:35 PM
#107
cool build! car turned out great.
since it came up, i looked up the resonance chambers, and there are three.
N3H2 is the standard power AT.
N3H8 is the standard power MT, which is a non US part, we didn't get that model
and N3H6 is the high power one.
no idea why they have so many different ones, or what they do. i assume its a noise, thing...
since it came up, i looked up the resonance chambers, and there are three.
N3H2 is the standard power AT.
N3H8 is the standard power MT, which is a non US part, we didn't get that model
and N3H6 is the high power one.
no idea why they have so many different ones, or what they do. i assume its a noise, thing...
03-24-2013, 01:18 PM
#108
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I've noticed that a lot of these tables max out at 9krpm. Makes me think a lot of them may be from the 6 port cars.
03-24-2013, 01:23 PM
#109
weeeeeeeeee
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I'll get back to you in a couple weeks on consumption as I flashed that table 3 or 4 days ago. I can say with no doubt that my consumption rate is significantly higher but I don't have a number for you yet.
I did the 60-80% TPS RPM table too:
I did the 60-80% TPS RPM table too:
Code:
700 720 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000 8500 9000 60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 65 3 21 27 33 39 45 45 45 47 50 54 57 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 70 3 21 27 33 39 45 45 45 47 50 54 57 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 80 3 21 27 33 39 45 45 45 47 50 54 57 60 60 60 60 60 60 60
Last edited by ShellDude; 03-24-2013 at 01:29 PM.
03-24-2013, 01:44 PM
#110
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cool build! car turned out great.
since it came up, i looked up the resonance chambers, and there are three.
N3H2 is the standard power AT.
N3H8 is the standard power MT, which is a non US part, we didn't get that model
and N3H6 is the high power one.
no idea why they have so many different ones, or what they do. i assume its a noise, thing...
since it came up, i looked up the resonance chambers, and there are three.
N3H2 is the standard power AT.
N3H8 is the standard power MT, which is a non US part, we didn't get that model
and N3H6 is the high power one.
no idea why they have so many different ones, or what they do. i assume its a noise, thing...
03-24-2013, 04:13 PM
#111
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Shell, was your original table MSP16 based? My '05 base map is showing different numbers than what you started out with.
Also... I found out that the '05 A/T "version" of ATR won't even open the '04 maps from the AP. Weird. AP Manager still lets me read their descriptions but I can't open them and copy tables.
Also... I found out that the '05 A/T "version" of ATR won't even open the '04 maps from the AP. Weird. AP Manager still lets me read their descriptions but I can't open them and copy tables.
03-24-2013, 04:48 PM
#112
weeeeeeeeee
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Yup, MSP16 stickered.
Yeah, our version of ATR is locked to the MY and submodel you select when you fill out the form to download it.
I can send you my 2004 version if you want to look at my maps. It'll also give you access to the 2004 base map. Its interesting that they'd be different... I've always assumed they were exactly the same.
You may not have my "real" base map. I can't remember what all I had loaded on the AP... There may even be an MM map on it... not that it would work or even load.
Yeah, our version of ATR is locked to the MY and submodel you select when you fill out the form to download it.
I can send you my 2004 version if you want to look at my maps. It'll also give you access to the 2004 base map. Its interesting that they'd be different... I've always assumed they were exactly the same.
You may not have my "real" base map. I can't remember what all I had loaded on the AP... There may even be an MM map on it... not that it would work or even load.
03-24-2013, 05:29 PM
#113
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Ugh, I accidentally saved over the base configuration Cobb included with a slightly modified table without realizing it. That accounts for the difference in the table you posted above with what I thought was my base map. I had to uninstall / reinstall ATR to get the base that they included with it back, and like you said, the numbers are identical. My bad, sorry about that.
Since I'm catless, I'm assuming the more oil the merrier up to a certain point?
Also... logged 8250 rpm today on a flat 2-3 shift getting on the highway. Is there much danger in occasionally running over 8k on an otherwise stock 4 port?
Since I'm catless, I'm assuming the more oil the merrier up to a certain point?
Also... logged 8250 rpm today on a flat 2-3 shift getting on the highway. Is there much danger in occasionally running over 8k on an otherwise stock 4 port?
03-24-2013, 05:58 PM
#114
03-28-2013, 09:44 AM
#115
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Update: heard back from my long time friend who used to smog my cars out in Torrance (legally). He told me that the new OBDII test parameters look for check digits in the CAL ID and CVN as well as the VIN and only then do they "unlock" the ability to run the car on the rollers to do the sniffer test (which contrary to some media reports, is still happening).
He asked me to plug in my Autel reader and read back the CVN and Cal ID on my PCM.
When I did he told me flat out that whatever I flashed on there modified it so the check digits are off. Basically, even though I don't have a CEL, I'll still fail smog in CA because the Cal ID and CVN have been modified from original, and aren't in the table of 2005 RX8 OEM ROMs he has.
Bollocks.
Plus now that he's STAR certified he has one of their "new" machines where he can't just test it without reporting it to a state agency... so if I fail, it's going to pop on the Carfax and follow the car around forever. Lame.
So... anyone in the market for a 5 speed 4 port RX8 that'll never pass CA smog? I'm moving in 3 weeks and can't take this damn thing with me now. I'm exploring other options, but it's looking like I'm going to have to sell the car now.
I'm more than a bit irritated, but frankly, I kinda knew this would happen.
I should have gotten a solid yes or no from my smog guy before I even started this whole fuster cluck.
"Damn."
He asked me to plug in my Autel reader and read back the CVN and Cal ID on my PCM.
When I did he told me flat out that whatever I flashed on there modified it so the check digits are off. Basically, even though I don't have a CEL, I'll still fail smog in CA because the Cal ID and CVN have been modified from original, and aren't in the table of 2005 RX8 OEM ROMs he has.
Bollocks.
Plus now that he's STAR certified he has one of their "new" machines where he can't just test it without reporting it to a state agency... so if I fail, it's going to pop on the Carfax and follow the car around forever. Lame.
So... anyone in the market for a 5 speed 4 port RX8 that'll never pass CA smog? I'm moving in 3 weeks and can't take this damn thing with me now. I'm exploring other options, but it's looking like I'm going to have to sell the car now.
I'm more than a bit irritated, but frankly, I kinda knew this would happen.
I should have gotten a solid yes or no from my smog guy before I even started this whole fuster cluck.
"Damn."
03-28-2013, 06:33 PM
#116
weeeeeeeeee
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hmm... I wonder if there is a USCA (California) version you should be using. There is a CA spec ECU. I suspect it wouldn't work if your ECU isn't already CA specific. I know that there are problems spanning model years "checksum" wise.
03-28-2013, 06:40 PM
#117
weeeeeeeeee
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Also, let me know if you want a refund on the AP. CA is much more sophisticated testing wise than PA. I've never had a problem up here. Just got to get all but one of the readiness tests to pass and not have an active CEL.
Is CAL ID the calibration ID? I'm not familiar with that register.
Is CAL ID the calibration ID? I'm not familiar with that register.
03-28-2013, 07:17 PM
#118
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Oh no that's fine, the AP is a blast. It's still masking my DTC's and forcing more oil through the MOP than Mazda ever intended.
Even though there only a few tables to play with it's kinda liberating to be able to get my dirty little fingers on the guts of the PCM. I appreciate the offer though!
CAL ID is found in mode $09 on a generic OBD II scanner. All 3 (CAL ID, CVN and VIN) have to line up according to CA. Right now according to my Smog guy my VIN shows "green" but the CVN check digits are "red". He mentioned the CAL ID was jacked but he was more concerned about the CVN.
Anyways, I listed the car for $8k which is my "I don't really want to sell it but my wife made me put it up for sale" price and damn it if 4 people didn't call me about it in the 5 or 6 hours since I posted it. One guy came out to test drive but I don't think he was interested. Maybe I relist it for $9k? hah.
Even though there only a few tables to play with it's kinda liberating to be able to get my dirty little fingers on the guts of the PCM. I appreciate the offer though!
CAL ID is found in mode $09 on a generic OBD II scanner. All 3 (CAL ID, CVN and VIN) have to line up according to CA. Right now according to my Smog guy my VIN shows "green" but the CVN check digits are "red". He mentioned the CAL ID was jacked but he was more concerned about the CVN.
Anyways, I listed the car for $8k which is my "I don't really want to sell it but my wife made me put it up for sale" price and damn it if 4 people didn't call me about it in the 5 or 6 hours since I posted it. One guy came out to test drive but I don't think he was interested. Maybe I relist it for $9k? hah.
03-28-2013, 07:24 PM
#119
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Yes, there are CA specific PCM's but that only matters if your car has under 5000 miles or something weird like that. Mine is the federal version but that's fine, I've smogged a half-dozen 1989-2005 cars out in CA, all of which were 50-state cars vs. CA specific.
10-29-2014, 07:52 PM
#121
weeeeeeeeee
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Resurrecting my favorite thread on this entire forum 
It is very likely I am now in a position where I must do a rebuild.
If I decide to rebuild my existing 4AT motor and buy a 5MT transmission I have to hack the starter, do some flywheel / counterweight work, and buy the manual (5MT to be safe) harness. I have a couple loose ends -- namely needing to be certain I can fit the MT starter without the long bolt and being 100% certain I can use the 5MT harness with the 4AT motor.
I have other variations to this plan -- one including a full 6MT motor and transmission swap and utilizing my Adaptronic for the extra injectors + APV but so far McKennaR's solution is my favorite assuming I can use my existing 4AT motor... this shiat gets expensive.
It is very likely I am now in a position where I must do a rebuild.
If I decide to rebuild my existing 4AT motor and buy a 5MT transmission I have to hack the starter, do some flywheel / counterweight work, and buy the manual (5MT to be safe) harness. I have a couple loose ends -- namely needing to be certain I can fit the MT starter without the long bolt and being 100% certain I can use the 5MT harness with the 4AT motor.
I have other variations to this plan -- one including a full 6MT motor and transmission swap and utilizing my Adaptronic for the extra injectors + APV but so far McKennaR's solution is my favorite assuming I can use my existing 4AT motor... this shiat gets expensive.
10-30-2014, 08:43 PM
#122
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Whoa, had to brush the dust off of this account!
If you're already going to have the flex plate / counterweight off, why not swap the rear plate out with one from an M/T car? That way you won't have to compromise on the starter bolt holes and such.
The number one thing I still regret to this day is not being able to get the JDM PCM to work. That, and having to run a hot wire from the ignition switch down to the starter trigger terminal as a consequence of not having the correct dash harness.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go 6 port 6M/T with the requisite harnesses / anti theft gear just to make it a little cleaner.
If you're already going to have the flex plate / counterweight off, why not swap the rear plate out with one from an M/T car? That way you won't have to compromise on the starter bolt holes and such.
The number one thing I still regret to this day is not being able to get the JDM PCM to work. That, and having to run a hot wire from the ignition switch down to the starter trigger terminal as a consequence of not having the correct dash harness.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go 6 port 6M/T with the requisite harnesses / anti theft gear just to make it a little cleaner.
11-01-2014, 03:58 PM
#123
weeeeeeeeee
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So you're swaying me already. I found (but have not yet committed on) a full 6MT block and transmission with no compression on the front rotor. Have been planning on a rebuild anyway.
Yesterday I bought a MT CF drive shaft.
Today I found a MT cluster.
I still need to source the clutch and master cylinder.
The 6MT I found on eBay also has an ECU but I'm hopeful I can get everything to work with my Adaptronic controlling the APV and injectors.
AAA 7 day waiting period (I had forgotten to renew) is up on Tuesday ... The 8 will be on its way to the shop then. I'd hoped to do some of my own diagnostics this weekend but the weather absolutely sucks here right now.
Yesterday I bought a MT CF drive shaft.
Today I found a MT cluster.
I still need to source the clutch and master cylinder.
The 6MT I found on eBay also has an ECU but I'm hopeful I can get everything to work with my Adaptronic controlling the APV and injectors.
AAA 7 day waiting period (I had forgotten to renew) is up on Tuesday ... The 8 will be on its way to the shop then. I'd hoped to do some of my own diagnostics this weekend but the weather absolutely sucks here right now.
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