BAD GUY: Aaron Muniz, RESOLVED:Crockett's Towing, Auto Body and Repair, Tampa FL Area
02-05-2013, 10:08 PM
#1
BAD GUY: Aaron Muniz, RESOLVED:Crockett's Towing, Auto Body and Repair, Tampa FL Area
Mod Edit- According to the op the person in question no longer works for Crocketts Towing, Auto Body and Repair. he has no issues with the business.
Aaron Muniz
Aaron Muniz | LinkedIn
Long Story but needs to be shared to prevent others from being ripped off by this same person.
On September 27th, 2012 I contacted Aaron regarding having a Mazdaspeed RX-8 front bumper repaired with a decent sized crack in it from hitting a Racoon and having it resprayed. He said sure it would be no problem, on October 2nd we planned to meet up and have him take a look at the bumper after work, this should have been the first sign, he didn't show up and didn't call or answer his phone when I called.
On October 4th I went to Aaron's house and spoke with him about the bumper and discussed what needed to be fixed, he made it sound like it would be no problem. We later agreed on a price of $350 to do the work.
On October 10th I texted him and asked how progress on the bumper was coming, I got no response.
On October 17th I texted him again to check on the status of the bumper, he responded "Good, had it at work today wet sanded gonna go in early tomorrow and spray it so hopefully I'll have it for you tomorrow night I'll keep you updated throughout the day"
On October 18th, he text me 'Hey bumper will be ready tomorrow evening''
On October 19th, he sent me a picture and said it was done.
On October 20th, I went to pick up the bumper from him at his work, when he pulled it out of his truck he put a big scratch in it so it had to be repainted again, and he filled in the tabs that attach the bumper to the car in the wheel well with solid fiberglass so he had to fix those too.
On October 23rd, I brought him the side markers so he could fix the tabs and fit the side markers properly.
On October 28th and 30th I texted him, to check on the bumper, I didn't get a response until the 31st, the bumper still wasn't done.
On November 5th, 6th, and 7th I texted him again, no response from these inquiries either.
On November 11th, I texted him asking if he was able to get the bumper finished, he said it was done and everything looked good and fit right. I asked him again what I owed him for the work, he told me $250 because of the multiple delays. He reduced the price voluntarily, I did not ask him to do this at all.
On November 12th, I picked up the bumper, although there were a few runs in the clear coat I paid him the $250 based on the promise that he would come and sand and buff out the runs in the clear.
On November 13th, I contacted him about arranging to meet up to fix the runs in the clear and also the fitment issues we were having when installing the bumper on the car. He said he couldn't do it on the 14th and asked if we could do it on the 15th, but I wasn't available to do it then. Over the next two weeks I called multiple times to arrange to meet up and get things straightened out with no response.
After getting a chance to look at the bumper more closely, I noticed many things that weren't right.
There were multiple runs in the clear.
There we fitment issues with the tabs and side marker fitment.
There was dust settled throughout the clear coat which I assume is because it wasn't cleared in a booth.
The whole bottom edge of the bumper was not clear coated at all.
The paint on the lower flare on the driver's side was already peeling/cracking.
There was overspray on the rubber seal and metal trim along the top.
There was a crack in the paint in the lower corner of the headlight opening on the passenger side.
December 6th, I contacted Aaron a few days before and left a message explaining in detail all the problems and asking what he could do to fix everything.
I texted him Asking him if he got my message a few days prior and stating that I needed to talk to him about the bumper.
Aaron: "I'm not going to do it so we can part ways"
Me: "What do you mean you're not going to do it?" and "So if we are just going to part ways you're giving me my money back right?"
Aaron: "R u kidding dude? you call me like a month later to complain about about bullshit *** bumper, it costs more in materials and my time to fix that so if anything you would owe me money."
Me: "First of all you we supposed to come over a few days later and fix the spot in the clear coat which you never did, you did a shitty job fixing it, you told me if there were any problems with it you would fix it, the bumper doesn't even fit, it wasn't sprayed in a booth so there's dust and **** all in the clear coat, multiple drips and peeling paint. And now you're not going to stand by your work? "
Aaron: "Dude lose my number your bullshit *** f****** bumper will never define my work, your words mean **** all to me. Btw you never called me to arrange to fix those runs" (Note: I called multiple times to arrange for him to fix the runs in the clear)
At this point I got a mutual friend involved and he spoke to Aaron and had him agree to fix it.
The bumper was picked up by Aaron from this mutual friends house on December 12th
On January 3rd, Aaron text me "Yo I haven't had a chance to get to your bumper due to personal problems that I don't care to discuss with you, and I probably won't have a chance to get to it anytime soon so lemme know what you wanna do."
Me: I can understand you having personal problems but the bumper needs to be fixed right. If you can't do it then I need my money back, the job wasn't done right and you told me you would take care of it, so I paid you trusting the fact that you said you would fix any problems.
Aaron: I told you I would fix the runs and you give my cousin a list of **** that you are demanding to get done... Dude go anywhere and ask anyone who knows what this work involves. Ask them if they would do all that work for $250. Guaranteed they will say no. I blessed you and still had to pay for
materials. So do whatever it Is you gotta do to try and **** me... It'll come back to you, that I can promise.
(It's absolutely crazy to me, but he seems to think I'm the one that has done something wrong here, he stated a price of $350, I agreed to it, he lowered that price because of excessive delays and hassles to $250 without me asking him to do so, how is that my problem?)
Aaron: The best I will do is get rid of the runs.
Me: It's not just the runs though, there's already paint peeling on the bottom, the bottom edge was never clear coated, the bumper wasn't sprayed in a booth so there's dust settled all throughout it. We tried to mount it on his car, thats it the car was never even driven. I've been trying to be nice about this whole thing you're the one that's been giving me problems. You agreed to a price, it's as simple as that. That doesn't mean you should not follow through on a commitment, I'm not trying to **** you over I'm just trying to make this right.
Me: If anything man I'm the one that has been fucked over, be honest man would you put that bumper on your car the way it is? I doubt it.
Aaron: I wouldn't have wasted time fixing something like that, I would just replace it, like how many times can you fiberglass something that has been trashed that much?!??!
Me: Then you should have told me you didn't want to do it, I would have figured something else out. You made it seem like fixing it would be no problem. At no point did you say it wasn't worth it to fix until after the fact.
Aaron: Well it wasn't till the corner tabs came in to play, everything else was fine
(If anything this was the easy part of the job until he decided to fill in the whole area with fiberglass)
Me: Forget about the tabs I'll fix those myself. Can you just fix the peeling paint on the lower flares and sand and reclear the bumper?
Aaron: Yea
Me: Ok, in what kind of timeline can you have it done?
Aaron: Give me 3 weeks as a cushion
Me: Come on man I'm not trying to be a dick about this but it's only a couple hours worth of work to sand and respray it.
Aaron: 2 weeks just for good measure
I'm sure it will get done before that ok
Me: Ok I guess it is what it is, thank you. Can you just keep in touch and let me know the status every so often? There's really no reason Jonathan(Our Mutual Friend) should have to be involved in this.
Aaron: Yea no prob
Me: Ok thanks
January 13th, Me: How's the bumper coming man?
January 21st, Me: Hi Aaron, where do we stand on the bumper? Is it done?
January 23rd, Me: Aaron can you please let me now the status on the bumper, it's been 3 weeks already. Thanks
(The below is after receiving a Voicemail from Aaron)
Just got your message my phone didn't even ring, I have crappy service at my house. I don't know what you want to do but he needs to have his bumper back as soon as possible. You tell me, I either need it done right soon(like within a week), or I need the money back to take it somewhere else and have them respray it for him.
No reply from him again.
January 28th, Me: Can you please let me know what you plan to do with the bumper? Thanks
January 29th, Me: I need to know when you will have the bumper done, it been almost 4 months since I originally gave you the bumper. And it's been a month already since you told me it would be done in 2 weeks
Aaron: You can come get it dude I haven't had the time I'm sorry
Me: Yea I can come get it but what are we doing about the money
Me: I need to know what's going on man, either you're going to make it right or you're not, either way at this point I just need the bumper back
Me: Just let me know when and where and I'll come pick up the bumper.
After this point it took until today February 5th to arrange a time to pick up the bumper, I now have the bumper back in the same condition, he did nothing with it after receiving it back the second time almost 2 months ago, he had the bumper for a total of just about 4 months. He told me he had no money to give back to me and if I wanted to I could come back to him in a month or 2 after he starts a new job at some other shop and has time to get it done. To think that I would bring the bumper back to him after all of this is absolutely absurd, and he seems to think there's nothing wrong with what he has done with this whole situation.
Beware of any work done by this guy and make sure any shop you go to in Tampa isn't working with Aaron Muniz as he claims to be getting a new job soon somewhere down in the Tampa Area. If he can't even paint a bumper I'd hate to see what he would do to a whole car.
Aaron Muniz
Aaron Muniz | LinkedIn
Long Story but needs to be shared to prevent others from being ripped off by this same person.
On September 27th, 2012 I contacted Aaron regarding having a Mazdaspeed RX-8 front bumper repaired with a decent sized crack in it from hitting a Racoon and having it resprayed. He said sure it would be no problem, on October 2nd we planned to meet up and have him take a look at the bumper after work, this should have been the first sign, he didn't show up and didn't call or answer his phone when I called.
On October 4th I went to Aaron's house and spoke with him about the bumper and discussed what needed to be fixed, he made it sound like it would be no problem. We later agreed on a price of $350 to do the work.
On October 10th I texted him and asked how progress on the bumper was coming, I got no response.
On October 17th I texted him again to check on the status of the bumper, he responded "Good, had it at work today wet sanded gonna go in early tomorrow and spray it so hopefully I'll have it for you tomorrow night I'll keep you updated throughout the day"
On October 18th, he text me 'Hey bumper will be ready tomorrow evening''
On October 19th, he sent me a picture and said it was done.
On October 20th, I went to pick up the bumper from him at his work, when he pulled it out of his truck he put a big scratch in it so it had to be repainted again, and he filled in the tabs that attach the bumper to the car in the wheel well with solid fiberglass so he had to fix those too.
On October 23rd, I brought him the side markers so he could fix the tabs and fit the side markers properly.
On October 28th and 30th I texted him, to check on the bumper, I didn't get a response until the 31st, the bumper still wasn't done.
On November 5th, 6th, and 7th I texted him again, no response from these inquiries either.
On November 11th, I texted him asking if he was able to get the bumper finished, he said it was done and everything looked good and fit right. I asked him again what I owed him for the work, he told me $250 because of the multiple delays. He reduced the price voluntarily, I did not ask him to do this at all.
On November 12th, I picked up the bumper, although there were a few runs in the clear coat I paid him the $250 based on the promise that he would come and sand and buff out the runs in the clear.
On November 13th, I contacted him about arranging to meet up to fix the runs in the clear and also the fitment issues we were having when installing the bumper on the car. He said he couldn't do it on the 14th and asked if we could do it on the 15th, but I wasn't available to do it then. Over the next two weeks I called multiple times to arrange to meet up and get things straightened out with no response.
After getting a chance to look at the bumper more closely, I noticed many things that weren't right.
There were multiple runs in the clear.
There we fitment issues with the tabs and side marker fitment.
There was dust settled throughout the clear coat which I assume is because it wasn't cleared in a booth.
The whole bottom edge of the bumper was not clear coated at all.
The paint on the lower flare on the driver's side was already peeling/cracking.
There was overspray on the rubber seal and metal trim along the top.
There was a crack in the paint in the lower corner of the headlight opening on the passenger side.
December 6th, I contacted Aaron a few days before and left a message explaining in detail all the problems and asking what he could do to fix everything.
I texted him Asking him if he got my message a few days prior and stating that I needed to talk to him about the bumper.
Aaron: "I'm not going to do it so we can part ways"
Me: "What do you mean you're not going to do it?" and "So if we are just going to part ways you're giving me my money back right?"
Aaron: "R u kidding dude? you call me like a month later to complain about about bullshit *** bumper, it costs more in materials and my time to fix that so if anything you would owe me money."
Me: "First of all you we supposed to come over a few days later and fix the spot in the clear coat which you never did, you did a shitty job fixing it, you told me if there were any problems with it you would fix it, the bumper doesn't even fit, it wasn't sprayed in a booth so there's dust and **** all in the clear coat, multiple drips and peeling paint. And now you're not going to stand by your work? "
Aaron: "Dude lose my number your bullshit *** f****** bumper will never define my work, your words mean **** all to me. Btw you never called me to arrange to fix those runs" (Note: I called multiple times to arrange for him to fix the runs in the clear)
At this point I got a mutual friend involved and he spoke to Aaron and had him agree to fix it.
The bumper was picked up by Aaron from this mutual friends house on December 12th
On January 3rd, Aaron text me "Yo I haven't had a chance to get to your bumper due to personal problems that I don't care to discuss with you, and I probably won't have a chance to get to it anytime soon so lemme know what you wanna do."
Me: I can understand you having personal problems but the bumper needs to be fixed right. If you can't do it then I need my money back, the job wasn't done right and you told me you would take care of it, so I paid you trusting the fact that you said you would fix any problems.
Aaron: I told you I would fix the runs and you give my cousin a list of **** that you are demanding to get done... Dude go anywhere and ask anyone who knows what this work involves. Ask them if they would do all that work for $250. Guaranteed they will say no. I blessed you and still had to pay for
materials. So do whatever it Is you gotta do to try and **** me... It'll come back to you, that I can promise.
(It's absolutely crazy to me, but he seems to think I'm the one that has done something wrong here, he stated a price of $350, I agreed to it, he lowered that price because of excessive delays and hassles to $250 without me asking him to do so, how is that my problem?)
Aaron: The best I will do is get rid of the runs.
Me: It's not just the runs though, there's already paint peeling on the bottom, the bottom edge was never clear coated, the bumper wasn't sprayed in a booth so there's dust settled all throughout it. We tried to mount it on his car, thats it the car was never even driven. I've been trying to be nice about this whole thing you're the one that's been giving me problems. You agreed to a price, it's as simple as that. That doesn't mean you should not follow through on a commitment, I'm not trying to **** you over I'm just trying to make this right.
Me: If anything man I'm the one that has been fucked over, be honest man would you put that bumper on your car the way it is? I doubt it.
Aaron: I wouldn't have wasted time fixing something like that, I would just replace it, like how many times can you fiberglass something that has been trashed that much?!??!
Me: Then you should have told me you didn't want to do it, I would have figured something else out. You made it seem like fixing it would be no problem. At no point did you say it wasn't worth it to fix until after the fact.
Aaron: Well it wasn't till the corner tabs came in to play, everything else was fine
(If anything this was the easy part of the job until he decided to fill in the whole area with fiberglass)
Me: Forget about the tabs I'll fix those myself. Can you just fix the peeling paint on the lower flares and sand and reclear the bumper?
Aaron: Yea
Me: Ok, in what kind of timeline can you have it done?
Aaron: Give me 3 weeks as a cushion
Me: Come on man I'm not trying to be a dick about this but it's only a couple hours worth of work to sand and respray it.
Aaron: 2 weeks just for good measure
I'm sure it will get done before that ok
Me: Ok I guess it is what it is, thank you. Can you just keep in touch and let me know the status every so often? There's really no reason Jonathan(Our Mutual Friend) should have to be involved in this.
Aaron: Yea no prob
Me: Ok thanks
January 13th, Me: How's the bumper coming man?
January 21st, Me: Hi Aaron, where do we stand on the bumper? Is it done?
January 23rd, Me: Aaron can you please let me now the status on the bumper, it's been 3 weeks already. Thanks
(The below is after receiving a Voicemail from Aaron)
Just got your message my phone didn't even ring, I have crappy service at my house. I don't know what you want to do but he needs to have his bumper back as soon as possible. You tell me, I either need it done right soon(like within a week), or I need the money back to take it somewhere else and have them respray it for him.
No reply from him again.
January 28th, Me: Can you please let me know what you plan to do with the bumper? Thanks
January 29th, Me: I need to know when you will have the bumper done, it been almost 4 months since I originally gave you the bumper. And it's been a month already since you told me it would be done in 2 weeks
Aaron: You can come get it dude I haven't had the time I'm sorry
Me: Yea I can come get it but what are we doing about the money
Me: I need to know what's going on man, either you're going to make it right or you're not, either way at this point I just need the bumper back
Me: Just let me know when and where and I'll come pick up the bumper.
After this point it took until today February 5th to arrange a time to pick up the bumper, I now have the bumper back in the same condition, he did nothing with it after receiving it back the second time almost 2 months ago, he had the bumper for a total of just about 4 months. He told me he had no money to give back to me and if I wanted to I could come back to him in a month or 2 after he starts a new job at some other shop and has time to get it done. To think that I would bring the bumper back to him after all of this is absolutely absurd, and he seems to think there's nothing wrong with what he has done with this whole situation.
Beware of any work done by this guy and make sure any shop you go to in Tampa isn't working with Aaron Muniz as he claims to be getting a new job soon somewhere down in the Tampa Area. If he can't even paint a bumper I'd hate to see what he would do to a whole car.
Last edited by zoom44; 05-17-2013 at 03:47 PM.
02-10-2013, 08:28 PM
#3
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Sounds like a lazy businessman...
But to be honest, $250 or even $350 seems crazy low for fiberglass repair labor AND materials AND paint repair AND materials. I'm not a body or paint guy but I have done both before several times and it is not easy or fast work, and I'd bet he had almost that much in materials alone plus maybe 50 bucks for his time. Most body shops I've dealt with would quote closer to $500 or more for a nice repair (like it never happened) and a near-show-quality paintjob with no runs, no overspray, etc.
Now this is not necessarily your fault, as he is the one that quoted the job...BUT, I think you can recognize that you got a low dollar budget quote from this guy and it may not have been realistic to expect an awesome job. Then when you got the low dollar budget product back and received low dollar budget customer service you were suddenly surprised that it wasn't a top notch repair/product/service.
Should he have done better? Maybe, if it was within his abilities. You can't assume that everyone who has a body shop in your local town can do top notch show quality work like you see from Chip Foose. This is why the responsibility lies with you to ask to see other projects and completed jobs so you can see if you are on the same page with what they can provide and what you expect.
Should he try to make it right? Maybe. It depends on what he promised you. If he promised you he'd do a decent repair and blow some paint on it for $250, well then there you go, that's what you got. If he promised you he'd "make it like it never happened and have a show quality shine" then of course he owes you more work. Somehow, though, I'm not sure we're getting the whole story here, because the price point just doesn't seem to match your expectations.
I looked at the pictures. The only paint issues that I saw merit to complaining about (given the price point you're in for repair and paint work, mind you) are the runs in pics 32-33 and 37. The only repair issues I see (obviously I can't judge the edge fitment versus the panels on the car) are the corners of the bumper where the side marker lights would meet up. BUT even then it seems like the marker lights would cover those corners and it should be a non issue.
How the repairs look on the inside of the bumper is irrelevant (I assume you showed those photos of rough resin etc. on the inside because you were unhappy with them). Not only would trying to sand and smooth those inside repairs down be very hard because of the tight fit and curvatures, but it would structurally weaken the very repair you wanted done...you can't add much material to the outside face of the bumper without changing it's shape, so you have to add material to the inside in order to hold it together and keep it from cracking again. The less material you leave on the inside of the bumper, the weaker the repair is and the sooner it will crack again. IF he had sanded those down smoother, no one would have known either way, it would have cracked soon after, and you would have complained about the cracks.
The "overspray" on the rubber liner is of course undesirable, but an easy fix, and I question why (if you were so worried about it) you would leave it in place when you delivered the bumper to him anyway. One thing I've noticed with body shops and paint men...the more "stripped down" you can bring a car or a part to them, the better job you can expect in the end. IF you bring a complete part to them and just say "paint it" then odds are that's what you're going to get, unless you give explicit instructions such as "be sure to mask off this, and remove that, and blah blah...". (and of course assuming you are paying him enough to do all of this detail work that you don't want to do yourself).
Finally, having done paint work myself a bit in the past few years, I have gained a new respect for these guys. You can work for days and days prepping a panel and doing body work, sanding, blocking, etc. and STILL have issues when you spray the paint on that you could not see before. And all it requires is the SMALLEST mistake with the paint or the environment to get flaws in the base or clear, and there is not much you can do about it after the fact. This can range anywhere from the work area, the compressor, lines, gun, lighting, the weather that day, etc. that can affect the quality of paint work. I say, cut the guy some slack based on what you paid him. He already did the job twice and at this point he's probably lost money on materials and made nothing for his time, and you're riding his *** like you're paul sr. on american chopper waiting for a build reveal deadline. Meanwhile although you do not have a perfect bumper, you're better off than you started and based on the pics I'd say you got $250 worth of repair. You didn't pay the "bumper sprayed in a booth so no dust can get into the clear" price, you paid the 'bumper sprayed in the driveway" price.
I find it unfathomable that you would tell him that the repair work should take two hours. If the work is so easy you would have done it yourself to begin with. You wanted to pay a body and paint guy to do it because you don't know what it takes, how long it takes, or how to do it yourself. I'm sorry, but I would not want to deal with you either. Having dealt with the public for over a decade now I have learned that the customer is not always right. In fact they usually are wrong and cannot see the forest for the trees, they think that any small amount of money the pay for a budget repair entitles them to a perfect job like it would have been when the factory produced the car 10 years ago, which just isn't realistic. Because you paid a guy to do work for you that he did twice and you're still not satisfied with does not entitle you to be his slave master until he produces a magazine-cover-quality job.
But to be honest, $250 or even $350 seems crazy low for fiberglass repair labor AND materials AND paint repair AND materials. I'm not a body or paint guy but I have done both before several times and it is not easy or fast work, and I'd bet he had almost that much in materials alone plus maybe 50 bucks for his time. Most body shops I've dealt with would quote closer to $500 or more for a nice repair (like it never happened) and a near-show-quality paintjob with no runs, no overspray, etc.
Now this is not necessarily your fault, as he is the one that quoted the job...BUT, I think you can recognize that you got a low dollar budget quote from this guy and it may not have been realistic to expect an awesome job. Then when you got the low dollar budget product back and received low dollar budget customer service you were suddenly surprised that it wasn't a top notch repair/product/service.
Should he have done better? Maybe, if it was within his abilities. You can't assume that everyone who has a body shop in your local town can do top notch show quality work like you see from Chip Foose. This is why the responsibility lies with you to ask to see other projects and completed jobs so you can see if you are on the same page with what they can provide and what you expect.
Should he try to make it right? Maybe. It depends on what he promised you. If he promised you he'd do a decent repair and blow some paint on it for $250, well then there you go, that's what you got. If he promised you he'd "make it like it never happened and have a show quality shine" then of course he owes you more work. Somehow, though, I'm not sure we're getting the whole story here, because the price point just doesn't seem to match your expectations.
I looked at the pictures. The only paint issues that I saw merit to complaining about (given the price point you're in for repair and paint work, mind you) are the runs in pics 32-33 and 37. The only repair issues I see (obviously I can't judge the edge fitment versus the panels on the car) are the corners of the bumper where the side marker lights would meet up. BUT even then it seems like the marker lights would cover those corners and it should be a non issue.
How the repairs look on the inside of the bumper is irrelevant (I assume you showed those photos of rough resin etc. on the inside because you were unhappy with them). Not only would trying to sand and smooth those inside repairs down be very hard because of the tight fit and curvatures, but it would structurally weaken the very repair you wanted done...you can't add much material to the outside face of the bumper without changing it's shape, so you have to add material to the inside in order to hold it together and keep it from cracking again. The less material you leave on the inside of the bumper, the weaker the repair is and the sooner it will crack again. IF he had sanded those down smoother, no one would have known either way, it would have cracked soon after, and you would have complained about the cracks.
The "overspray" on the rubber liner is of course undesirable, but an easy fix, and I question why (if you were so worried about it) you would leave it in place when you delivered the bumper to him anyway. One thing I've noticed with body shops and paint men...the more "stripped down" you can bring a car or a part to them, the better job you can expect in the end. IF you bring a complete part to them and just say "paint it" then odds are that's what you're going to get, unless you give explicit instructions such as "be sure to mask off this, and remove that, and blah blah...". (and of course assuming you are paying him enough to do all of this detail work that you don't want to do yourself).
Finally, having done paint work myself a bit in the past few years, I have gained a new respect for these guys. You can work for days and days prepping a panel and doing body work, sanding, blocking, etc. and STILL have issues when you spray the paint on that you could not see before. And all it requires is the SMALLEST mistake with the paint or the environment to get flaws in the base or clear, and there is not much you can do about it after the fact. This can range anywhere from the work area, the compressor, lines, gun, lighting, the weather that day, etc. that can affect the quality of paint work. I say, cut the guy some slack based on what you paid him. He already did the job twice and at this point he's probably lost money on materials and made nothing for his time, and you're riding his *** like you're paul sr. on american chopper waiting for a build reveal deadline. Meanwhile although you do not have a perfect bumper, you're better off than you started and based on the pics I'd say you got $250 worth of repair. You didn't pay the "bumper sprayed in a booth so no dust can get into the clear" price, you paid the 'bumper sprayed in the driveway" price.
I find it unfathomable that you would tell him that the repair work should take two hours. If the work is so easy you would have done it yourself to begin with. You wanted to pay a body and paint guy to do it because you don't know what it takes, how long it takes, or how to do it yourself. I'm sorry, but I would not want to deal with you either. Having dealt with the public for over a decade now I have learned that the customer is not always right. In fact they usually are wrong and cannot see the forest for the trees, they think that any small amount of money the pay for a budget repair entitles them to a perfect job like it would have been when the factory produced the car 10 years ago, which just isn't realistic. Because you paid a guy to do work for you that he did twice and you're still not satisfied with does not entitle you to be his slave master until he produces a magazine-cover-quality job.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 02-10-2013 at 08:42 PM.
02-10-2013, 10:17 PM
#4
I agree with you on many points, but your overall evaluation is wrong.
The customer is not always right, but please tell me where I'm wrong in this.
He quoted me $350, if he under quoted the job that's not my problem. I didn't expect a show quality job, but any competent auto body guy can lay down clear without runs in it. There are runs all throughout the bumper, more than what you can see in pictures.
Then he VOLUNTARILY lowered the price to $250, once again I did not request that he do this or even complain about delays.
He had 4 months total to fix the bumper, which is WAY more time than he should have been given, I was more than willing to work with him through the situation and even made multiple offers to meet up with him to help get the work done.
After fixing it the second time, I asked him to just fix the runs and the paint on the lower flares and not worry about fixing the fitment around the tabs as I would do that myself. To do what I asked that is only a few hours worth of work, if it took him longer than that then he clearly has no idea what he's doing, I think that's pretty evident to begin with.
I made every effort possible to work with this guy.
Yes I do know what this work takes and could have done it myself, if I had the space to do it and I guarantee you it would have come out better than what the bumper looks like at this point.
He fixed the bumper once and had to redo it because of his own mistake by putting a huge scratch in it. He did it again and this was the result, a complete disaster of a paint job.
I posted pictures of the back of the bumper not because it something you would see, but just to show his sloppy work. I know you have to leave material for strength, but he could have laid down the fiberglass and resin much cleaner.
If he came to me and explained the situation and said he needed more money to complete the repair properly I probably would have given him the money since we originally agreed on a higher price point anyway, bu he did not.
His attitude is ridiculous, as you can see above. That is a direct dialogue of text messages back and forth. As a businessman yourself I'm sure you would never speak to a customer that way or if a customer requested an update on their engine you wouldn't respond for weeks.
I take this as a lesson learned and will no longer work with people who are friends of friends. I could have easily avoided this situation, but it still doesn't negate the fact that he was wrong in what he did throughout the whole situation in every way possible.
The customer is not always right, but please tell me where I'm wrong in this.
He quoted me $350, if he under quoted the job that's not my problem. I didn't expect a show quality job, but any competent auto body guy can lay down clear without runs in it. There are runs all throughout the bumper, more than what you can see in pictures.
Then he VOLUNTARILY lowered the price to $250, once again I did not request that he do this or even complain about delays.
He had 4 months total to fix the bumper, which is WAY more time than he should have been given, I was more than willing to work with him through the situation and even made multiple offers to meet up with him to help get the work done.
After fixing it the second time, I asked him to just fix the runs and the paint on the lower flares and not worry about fixing the fitment around the tabs as I would do that myself. To do what I asked that is only a few hours worth of work, if it took him longer than that then he clearly has no idea what he's doing, I think that's pretty evident to begin with.
I made every effort possible to work with this guy.
Yes I do know what this work takes and could have done it myself, if I had the space to do it and I guarantee you it would have come out better than what the bumper looks like at this point.
He fixed the bumper once and had to redo it because of his own mistake by putting a huge scratch in it. He did it again and this was the result, a complete disaster of a paint job.
I posted pictures of the back of the bumper not because it something you would see, but just to show his sloppy work. I know you have to leave material for strength, but he could have laid down the fiberglass and resin much cleaner.
If he came to me and explained the situation and said he needed more money to complete the repair properly I probably would have given him the money since we originally agreed on a higher price point anyway, bu he did not.
His attitude is ridiculous, as you can see above. That is a direct dialogue of text messages back and forth. As a businessman yourself I'm sure you would never speak to a customer that way or if a customer requested an update on their engine you wouldn't respond for weeks.
I take this as a lesson learned and will no longer work with people who are friends of friends. I could have easily avoided this situation, but it still doesn't negate the fact that he was wrong in what he did throughout the whole situation in every way possible.
Last edited by kma5783; 02-10-2013 at 10:27 PM.
02-11-2013, 01:39 AM
#5
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Let me ask you a question. You say this was a referral from a friend of a friend. Did you ask to see some of his prior work? Do you know any other "friends" for whom he has done work?
I mean, I build rotary engines, something that only a handful of people do as a full time job in the whole country...probably well under 50 builders. And yet, people come to me often fully versed in my reputation and whose cars I've worked on in the past, due to research they've done and references they've gathered on their own time beforehand. And this is for a specialized repair where most likely any shop that survived the past 5 years' recession has to be a quality one.
Body and paint shops are a dime a dozen and just like anything else there are bad ones, good ones, and great ones, all with varying prices and turnaround times. So...the question is, did you find out which category this was going to fall into before you committed to the job? No offense but it sounds like you had the expectation of perfection in your head, never questioning why the quote would be low or what his credentials/portfolio were like or if his work could match the idea you had in your head.
You asked what you've done wrong. I'd say maybe you were not realistic in your expectations from what seems to be a one man operation or a guy doing side work "on the cheap" based only on the recommendation of a "friend".
I hope you get it straightened out. I think if I were the other guy I would make one final offer to try and make the product suit you, with you paying for the new materials you wanted used. I might even have you come to the shop each time I made a milestone so that you could see the work being done and not be able to later say "but you didn't do that right, I wanted it done this way, blah blah".
I mean, I build rotary engines, something that only a handful of people do as a full time job in the whole country...probably well under 50 builders. And yet, people come to me often fully versed in my reputation and whose cars I've worked on in the past, due to research they've done and references they've gathered on their own time beforehand. And this is for a specialized repair where most likely any shop that survived the past 5 years' recession has to be a quality one.
Body and paint shops are a dime a dozen and just like anything else there are bad ones, good ones, and great ones, all with varying prices and turnaround times. So...the question is, did you find out which category this was going to fall into before you committed to the job? No offense but it sounds like you had the expectation of perfection in your head, never questioning why the quote would be low or what his credentials/portfolio were like or if his work could match the idea you had in your head.
You asked what you've done wrong. I'd say maybe you were not realistic in your expectations from what seems to be a one man operation or a guy doing side work "on the cheap" based only on the recommendation of a "friend".
I hope you get it straightened out. I think if I were the other guy I would make one final offer to try and make the product suit you, with you paying for the new materials you wanted used. I might even have you come to the shop each time I made a milestone so that you could see the work being done and not be able to later say "but you didn't do that right, I wanted it done this way, blah blah".
02-11-2013, 08:54 PM
#6
Let me ask you a question. You say this was a referral from a friend of a friend. Did you ask to see some of his prior work? Do you know any other "friends" for whom he has done work?
I mean, I build rotary engines, something that only a handful of people do as a full time job in the whole country...probably well under 50 builders. And yet, people come to me often fully versed in my reputation and whose cars I've worked on in the past, due to research they've done and references they've gathered on their own time beforehand. And this is for a specialized repair where most likely any shop that survived the past 5 years' recession has to be a quality one.
Body and paint shops are a dime a dozen and just like anything else there are bad ones, good ones, and great ones, all with varying prices and turnaround times. So...the question is, did you find out which category this was going to fall into before you committed to the job? No offense but it sounds like you had the expectation of perfection in your head, never questioning why the quote would be low or what his credentials/portfolio were like or if his work could match the idea you had in your head.
You asked what you've done wrong. I'd say maybe you were not realistic in your expectations from what seems to be a one man operation or a guy doing side work "on the cheap" based only on the recommendation of a "friend".
I hope you get it straightened out. I think if I were the other guy I would make one final offer to try and make the product suit you, with you paying for the new materials you wanted used. I might even have you come to the shop each time I made a milestone so that you could see the work being done and not be able to later say "but you didn't do that right, I wanted it done this way, blah blah".
I mean, I build rotary engines, something that only a handful of people do as a full time job in the whole country...probably well under 50 builders. And yet, people come to me often fully versed in my reputation and whose cars I've worked on in the past, due to research they've done and references they've gathered on their own time beforehand. And this is for a specialized repair where most likely any shop that survived the past 5 years' recession has to be a quality one.
Body and paint shops are a dime a dozen and just like anything else there are bad ones, good ones, and great ones, all with varying prices and turnaround times. So...the question is, did you find out which category this was going to fall into before you committed to the job? No offense but it sounds like you had the expectation of perfection in your head, never questioning why the quote would be low or what his credentials/portfolio were like or if his work could match the idea you had in your head.
You asked what you've done wrong. I'd say maybe you were not realistic in your expectations from what seems to be a one man operation or a guy doing side work "on the cheap" based only on the recommendation of a "friend".
I hope you get it straightened out. I think if I were the other guy I would make one final offer to try and make the product suit you, with you paying for the new materials you wanted used. I might even have you come to the shop each time I made a milestone so that you could see the work being done and not be able to later say "but you didn't do that right, I wanted it done this way, blah blah".
Loosing the $250 isn't really a big deal, lesson learned. It's just the principle of it that pisses me off, any good businessman knows sometimes a job may cost you money, but you always make it right. If you plan to get anywhere your reputation is more important than the small amount of money at least in my eyes it is. I work side jobs when I have the time doing renovations and home repairs, if I tell someone a specific price and it ends up taking me longer than I thought I don't go to them and tell them they owe me more money or stop doing the job and say I've already spent more money on materials then what you paid, I'm going to leave your house torn apart until you give me more money. That's why it's important to learn how to quote the job at hand and figure out exact material costs before hand.
I wasn't expecting perfection but I was expecting a decent and proper repair, in my eyes there are very few shops that can pull off perfection.
This thread is only to show the type of work this guy does and what kind of businessman he is so if anyone else comes across him they have a reference for his work and know to avoid him.
02-16-2013, 09:18 PM
#7
Saving Up to Be Broke
Thanks for posting this. I had an accident in a parking lot and I was looking to repair the rear bumper on my 8 in a local shop. I really appreciate the heads up cause this place is very close to where I live. I'm scratching this one off my list of options. Thanks again.
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