rodrigo67

if your in Oregon. Now you will be paying whether you drive an 8 or a prius.

Gas tax on miles, not gallons, tested
PORTLAND, Ore., March 25 (UPI) -- Oregon is testing the idea of collecting highway funds through a tax on miles driven, rather than gasoline consumed.

Eighty percent of Oregon's highway money comes from its 24-cents-per-gallon gas tax. If the state promotes reducing gasoline consumption and consumers tend to buy the fuel-efficient vehicles, including hybrids, highway revenues would take a hit, The New York Times reported.

The test program uses a global positioning system to track miles driven, using a black box to calculate how many miles are clocked in-state, out of state and during rush hour.

The experiment is designed to increase state revenue for road maintenance without raising gasoline taxes, but critics say collecting GPS records poses new privacy issues.

"The existence of such a database, which would, for the first time in history, allow for the creation of detailed daily itineraries of every driver, raises obvious privacy concerns," said David L. Sobel, general counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group in Washington.

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?St...5-031322-1742r

Does this mean they will do away with the gas gussler tax.


One other thing about GPS. If the govt. is monitoring your travel, they are also monitoring your speed...tickets in the mail...

RevTo9K

Since this is designed to make up the lost revenues from more fuel-efficient cars, I doubt you'll see the guzzler tax go away.

This is classic. I love the idea of omitting the taxes on a gallon of gas (dropping the price immediately, in Oregon, by $2.40 per 10-gallon fillup), and then having the government send you a bill for the miles you drove!

I've always felt that if taxes were collected separately (gas, income, you name it) by simply sending a bill, people would quickly become incensed at just how deeply the government's hand is shoved in their pockets. It will be interesting to watch.

mysql101

those damn pruis owners need to be taken down a notch or two. Who better than the gov't to make sure that we all pay a lot for driving cars! hurray! I've never been so proud to be an american.

therm8

What are they gonna do in 5 years to make up for the lost revenue from people leaving gustapoland, tax you for every breath you take?

BunnyGirl

It is a sign up only program and you can only use a couple specially selected and placed gas stations, none of them even near me (closest one being a 50 minute drive). Everyone I have talked to about it thinks it is a stupid idea, with the exception of the people that live in the city and only a few miles from their job where they usually walk or bike to anyway.

I am highly against the idea of being tracked. Who's to say if you are being investigated for possible involvement in a crime or whatever, that they won't subpoena the "black box" log of where you've been in your car?

I think some moron came up with this idea. Either that or they were definitely on something at the time!!!

They are currently seeking "volunteers."

Schneegz

Taxing people for how many miles they drive per year is actually a good idea, but only if the tax is adjusted for the weight of the vehicle driven.

State governments and the Federal Government pay for the maintenance of roads and highways. Therefore, the government should rightly tax the people who use those roads for the maintenance of those roads. But how should taxation be broken down?

A vehicle's weight and the number of miles it is driven determine the amount of damage it does to the roads on which it is driven. Therefore, it is unfair to tax a 500lb motorcycle at the same rate as a 5,000lb SUV, or a (roughly) 3,000lb RX-8, even if they all drive the same number of miles over the same roads.

The thought of being tracked is disturbing, however. So maybe Oregon should simply require residents to submit a certified odometer reading with their tax return each year. Road taxes would be adjusted for vehicle weight, and number of miles driven. That would actually be more fair than gasoline taxes.

mysql101

If what you say is true, then it's something that will get democrat support.

BunnyGirl

I think the lady that came up with the idea is a Democrat from the Portland area. I am not entirely opposed to the idea of it, but the main problem I have, and the one that most people seem to have a problem with is the "black box recorder" that tracks where you are driving and at what times of the day through GPS. I don't know at this point how much support this will get but there are privacy rights people all upset over this. Their system is actually really complex for calculating your rate. You register you vehicle type and make and then they install the box into your car. You get charged different rates for different times of day you are driving and also by what roads you are using. I think there may also be a vehicle consideration in this. If it was a flat tax based on miles driven per year with an odometer reading only, no tracking, it may not be such a bad idea, although I would be one of the people getting charged an awful lot based on my work commute alone. A little over 70 miles per day round trip, mainly on the interstate, which is supposed to cost more.

I guess it depends on the breakdown.

On another note, for the state supposed to be maintaining our roads they are pretty crappy in a lot of places, which includes some large potholes right in the middle of several major freeways. Some other roads we travel on are so horribly rutted it's like being held to a track because it's really hard to get out of the ruts. Great work on maintenance guys!!!

jisoo26

This also seems to fly in the face of buying a hybrid car to reduce the amount of gas you use. If a tax like this comes along, 80% of the incentive to buy a hybrid car goes down the tube. So much for saving money and the environment...not to mention reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

wisconsinben

This was my thought as well. The government should be promoting the purchase of high efficiency vehicles. Taxing this was does the opposite.

BunnyGirl

I thought that, too. It would be nice if they actually explained what the price they charge for all these miles is so that people could figure it out for how much it would cost them. I think if they did that there would be more people opposed to the idea than there already are.

saturn

It would be cool if someone brought up a map with an overlay of where you'd driven in the past week or whatever and you had spelled a giant "YOU SUCK" across the entire state. That'd be sweet.

I like the idea of taxing people for road maintenance based on how much they actually drive particular roads. This is sorta the idea behind toll roads. It's too cumbersome to have tolls everywhere and this things has the potential to be like every road be a toll road.

Unfortunately, the downsides involve having people be tracked constantly as well as discouraging people from buying gas-efficient cars. It's already not incredibly cost-effective to own a hybrid so lowering the cost of gas (by removing the taxes) just makes it that much worse.

BunnyGirl

Exactly. A friend of mine has a hybrid Escape and he says the repair costs are nearly twice as much as on a regular Escape.

rotarygod

To the people who think taxing based on mileage is a good idea, I am a real estate agent. I have no choice but to drive alot. That's a part of the job. Guess who pays for it. Here's a hint. It's not the company. I have people constantly asking me to cut or split my commission which is my pay check. I take people around sometimes who then don't buy anything. I don't get paid to show houses. I get paid to sell them. Then I lose nearly a third of my income to taxes not to mention the money that needs to be spent on advertising and gas. Who is going to pick up the slack for me and pay my gas mileage tax? I want to know because I won't do it. If it's such a good idea, maybe you won't mind paying for mine. I'll take that black box out of the car and wire it up to a battery sitting in the garage if this ever happens. They can think my car never moves. I'll tie it to a dog's back and let him go play to put a few miles on it. Thank god it's only Oregon thinking about this right now and not here but it's a terrible idea. A good idea is no income tax but higher federal sales taxes so even those who aren't citizens are forced to contribute. That would work. A mileage tax would not. The other thing would just be to always drive an older car.

EyeBall Fixer...(o)(x)

^^^ Ha Ha! Good one!

I'm sure you'd figure out a mod for the black box!

"I get paid to sell houses, not show them..."
It would be great if persons in the sales force had customers lining up to buy their product
without actually having to do any "selling"....
I bet my car salesman would love this

By the way, I'm giving this tax my thumbs down too.

rotarygod

The only way they could do it so it wouldn't be easy to tamper with would be to build it into the ecu. Retrofitting older cars isn't going to work because they could be removed. If new cars came this way, I'd wait a few years to buy one. Then I'd watch the junk yards for a wrecked car and pick up it's ecu. The mileage being reported wouldn't be mine. It would be a car that isn't supposed to be on the road anymore. I'd stick my ecu back in 1 day a year to pass inspection. I already do that with the cat. Someone would eventually find a way to diable it with a flash anyways. It just wouldn't work.

Here in Texas they just keep building toll roads everywhere. That's how they get the mileage money out of you without invading your privacy. Every new freeway being built here is a tollway. Older one's are being enlarged but new ones you pay for.

Brandon

The main benefit of a tax on miles driven over a tax on gas is that it also targets traffic congestion by effectively taxing how much space you take up on the road. If you stay home and don't drive, or take the bus, you don't pay any tax, you don't burn gas AND you don't increase congestion by taking up space on the highway. In other words, a Prius driver right now gets to "free ride" off the rest of us because his car requires essentially the same amount of highway square footage as an RX-8, yet the RX-8 driver has to pay much more through gas taxes. All things being equal, we, as drivers of cars with poor mileage, should prefer this tax to a gas tax.

Schneegz is right, ideally one would also take weight into account, though the difference may be minimal between average passenger vehicles when compared to the damage a semi-truck does. I find it a little curious that this is coming from a larger state with (I assume) reasonable congestion compared to eastern cities and wide open areas where "road space consumed" is less of an issue.

rotarygod- don't you get to deduct the $0.415 per mile from your taxes? I know it only barely covers the cost per mile of a Civic, but it should count for something. I think I've seen average cost per mile for an RX-8 was $0.55 or so.

Re: privacy, I think I agree with most everyone that it is a little creepy to have a black box. Though I think it would "work," as far as effectiveness for the government. 99.5% of people are not going to find it worth the time, effort and risk to futz with their car's electronics just to avoid paying at most a couple hundred bucks a year.

rotarygod

I definitely deduct mileage. This is where most of my tax break comes from. It definitely does not add up to $0.41 per mile after you figure out what tax bracket you are in. It itsn't just as easy as getting that much back from the govt. A Civic is cheaper per mile than most cars. That's why I own it. It's paid off and gets 32-34 mpg city. If I'm going to be forced to pay per mile, I'm going to go out and buy the biggest fattest gas guzzling piece of vehicle I can find as my advantage is slipping away. Then I'd take the cat off just out of spite. I already purposely drive a nonemissions legal RX-7 around on the street to spite current laws. If they get rid of gas tax completely and only have a mileage tax, that "might" be worthwhile. That'll suck for people driving on vacation instead of flying so they can save money. I suppose we should tax airline fuel based on miles flown. At 4+ gallons per mile they already pay quite a bit. Why not pay more.

This is yet another in a long line of really dumb ideas. The whole reason to make and purchase fuel efficient cars is to save money. I could personally give a crap about the EPA so air quality isn't a factor to me. Air will still be here and breathable long after I'm gone. Technology will probably be able to clean it by then anyways with atmospheric scrubbers. Giant Ionic Breezes lining city streets. I care about my wallet first and foremost not the governments. The less I can do for or give to the government the better.

cleoent

I dont get it. The government wants people to put up with shitty performance and ugly looks in order to save gas, but now they (the hybrid drivers) get jacked anyway? Weak. Really weak. There's no way i'm going to want a gps unit that the government tracks on my car. No thanks.

rodrigo67

Let's not forget. In the usual typical govt. way, when they arent bringing uin as much tax money as they anticipated, what do you think they will do?

Bring back the gas tax and keep the milage tax. Ever hear of govt. eliminating a tax?

I read a story about a town in california a few years back. The city asked it's citizens to conserve water. The program was so sussessfull, that the city had to then raise water rates because they were losing so much income. So now the citizens pay the same or more for less service. Yeah, that gets my vote...right...

therm8

Should organize a protest...the million car traffic jam.