gwilliams6

The driver really makes a difference as well as the equipment !

Watch a Spec Miata Embarrass a Porsche 911 Turbo S on Track

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Driving skill matters? Who would of thought?

Now lets see the video of the Miata getting lapped with a good driver in the 911.

wannawankel

You're shattering my dreams (I always want to believe that the Miata and RX8 can smoke a 911 given a great driver).

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah I was at local track watching the son (17) of the track owner whoop on many powerful cars driven by some level 1 (they class their training at this place) in a spec Miata. I was blown away seeing it run against some 911's, a Roush Mustang, and some others.

Until my buddy got out there in is track prepped M Coupe. He was at the highest level at that track and can really drive and that kids skill was not enough to hang.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I bet the Miata is on racing slicks as well...and the Porshe is on road tires...you can see the different levels of grip

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

That's true, I didn't even think about the tire compound.

yomomspimp06

AMP is one of my favorite tracks! It's also one of the scariest. Not enough run off space to go 10/10ths in anything I own.

Nisaja

Just out of curiosity, can an RX-8 really hang with a 911 in the corners? Maybe not an all wheel drive Turbo S, but a Carrera maybe? Or a Boxster S? I know in the straights they'll disappear, but just the bends?

NotAPreppie

A properly setup '8 probably could hang with a stock 911 but that would be apples->oranges.

I'd think a Boxster or Cayman would be worse (if you believe the armchair quaterbacks, the Boxster/Cayman platform handles better than the 911).

That said, we've already seen that a skilled driver in a Miata can hang with a less skilled driver in a 911, so it's potentially a driver's race.

Tell you what, I've got an track day at Blackhawk Farms Raceway on Monday. If somebody wants to loan me their Porsche, I'll do half my sessions in my '8 and half in the Porsche with some data logging. Sound good?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

A Spec Miata is not a Stock RX-8 😉

The 8 handles well....but it's not a Porsche 😊

Nisaja

Darn it...

ZiG

Depending on what's done to the miata, the porsche is probably worth 10 of them? Wet track, maybe the driver is just being careful? I'm not watching all seven minutes of that but I didn't see anything to indicate a 'bad' driver..

911SC

I've driven my 911 on Lime Rock. My friend who owns a 911 Turbo was also there. A guy in a N2000 stayed on his tail for several laps until they came in. The Honda guy came up to him and started talking crap about how he couldn't pull away. My friend just looked at him and said, there is no reward for coming in first, I was just enjoying myself. If you slam into the guard rails you're out what, $20K? If I hit them, I'm out $120K. Why should I risk that just to prove a point?

gwilliams6

One of my first driving schools was at Lime Rock. A tricky little track, fun but not a place to fool around.

BecauseRaceCar

I am sure you have seen it, but this a video of a good driver in a Porsche GT3? versus a ridiculously talented driver in a Miata on Nurburgring. Oh the Miata driver is the test driver for Koenigsegg.






For around here, Limerock is wide open....Palmer is scary. No run off on nearly every turn.

Steve Dallas

Which 911?

I can't really answer this, because there are too many variables. Suspension setups, tires, driver, layout of track all play their roles.

The RX-8 has the ability to corner VERY well. A stock RX-8 on good tires can pull about 0.8G on the skidpad. With the way mine is set up, it consistently gives me 1.2G in the corners, and sometimes as much as 1.4G in the right conditions (or when I fully find my *****). On a track with shorter straights, power is not enough to overcome cornering ability, unless the other car can pull similar Gs. That means I am able to frustrate a lot of drivers in "faster" cars.

But, it isn't all about the car. It is 80% driver plus 15% grip plus 5% power.

If we stick to 911s, the driver's ability to manage the pendulum in the back is the determining factor. If he can use it to his advantage, he can beat me. If he has to drive defensively against it, I will always beat him. Unless he is driving a GT3-RS, in which case, I don't stand a chance.

Nisaja

Damn. I had a new-ish 991 911 in mind when typing that comment. Or a 981 Boxster S.

What is your suspension setup? I don't think it's all about handling. A lotta people praise the R3's upgraded suspension but when compared to a standard series 2, it's only about 0.3 seconds faster around Tsukuba. I saw an episode about it on Best Motoring.

Steve Dallas

As I said, there are many factors. The accepted general formula (according to race driving books I have read, and driving schools I have attended) is: 80% driver skill, 15% grip, 5% power. Obviously, that formula changes slightly, depending on the layout of the track and other conditions. It also has some assumptions built-in, like fairly similar cars. Power means a lot more on a track, where there are several long straights. Cornering ability means a lot more on a track, where the straights are relatively short, and the turns are tight.

The difference between the normal suspension and the R3 suspension is minimal for track work, in terms of G force, although 0.3 seconds is actually huge. That small difference, when multiplied by 20 laps, is 6 seconds. That amounts to a rather large margin of victory in race driving.

You have to be willing to spend about $7000 and run some "crazy" alignment settings to measurably improve grip, and even those improvements will be incremental.

Let's discuss grip and cornering ability for a minute. Most people don't really think through what an advantage it is on most tracks. Let's say I'm going up against a 550hp Mustang. Because I am lighter and more nimble, I brake later and harder, which means I carry my straight speed longer. I can then enter the corner 20mph faster than he can, and exit the corner 25mph faster than he can, because of my car's grip and ability to corner. I can get back on the gas sooner and harder, since my grip can put it to the ground, whereas he has to wait until he is straighter past the apex. On the next straight, he has to overcome that 25mph, before he even starts gaining on me. Then, he has to have enough room to use his power to make up the distance I created between us in the corner. Then, he has to have enough room to use his power to pass me, before we get to the next braking zone, where I will brake deeper and harder again, take the turn 20mph faster again, exit 25mph faster again, etc. If you can't drive, and you can't corner, you can't win--I don't care how much power you have. The only way that changes is, if the track has several 2000ft straights.

gwilliams6

Right Steve, a track like Lime Rock, shorter straights and twisty was a favorite winning track for race RX7s and Rx8s vs more powerful opponents. A longer straightaways track like Road America was a tougher track for rotary racers, although some did win there. Loads of RX7 and RX8 owners in the NE have learned to drive and race properly at that little gem, Lime Rock. I did. (as most know ,Lime Rock was the late championship racer/actor Paul Newman's home track)

delhi

...at the end of the day which would you rather drive home in?

Nisaja

Wow. Great advice! You're right. Handling is very important.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I surprise a lot of much more expensive and higher horsepower cars.

They used to blow by me on the straight and I could hang with them in the corners......

Now I keep up with them and drive them nuts in the corners

We have a ex Lotus works driver in a fully built RS...I can''t keep up with him..he's a monster. But most of the rest are fair game

koyv90

haha thank you for this its ******* awesome time to show my friends who like porsches because of the name.