RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I've gotten enough people PMing me about my MSM here that I've decided to put up a build thread for anyone interested in following it. Yes, it is not an RX-8 or even rotary, hence the reason why it is in General Automotive, where discussions about car stuff that isn't about the RX-8 is acceptable.

Note that while I don't have a problem with people ragging on me about "driving a chick car", I will move such posts out of this thread to a Lounge thread, and you can rag on me as much as you want there.

If you aren't interested in this at all, then well, ignore it. I bet there are plenty of other threads on the forum that don't interest you as well. A noticeable portion of RX-8 owners either came from or moved to Miatas, or have one in addition to their RX-8, so I'm sure some people will indeed find it interesting.



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My biggest regret with my RX-8 is that I never had the money to mod it like I wanted, so I'm not making that mistake this time.

Last dyno tuned at 197wtq, 202whp @ 10psi. (Brief spike to 12psi)

Weight: 2,490lbs

Current specs:
- Flyin Miata (FM) Sway bars
- FM downpipe and cat, and catback
- FM intake (eliminates a major restriction in the stock system)
- Above replaced by full FM2 conversion, GT2560R turbo.
- FM throttle body elbow (OEM is rubber and it can blow off at even 8psi of boost)
- FM boost gauge
- Hard Dog Sport Bar
- Aftermarket 2 stage heated seats
- Hard wired Passport radar detector cord
- Hardwired FM transmitter
- Hardwired USB power cord
- Stainless steel brake lines
- Hydra ECU
- Deatschwerks 700cc injectors
- Ebay 27x7x2.5 intercooler
- Black 16x7 RPF1s
- 180f thermostat
- 94-97 Alternator conversion (self regulated)
- Thompson oil filter relocation*
- 3.63 rear gear swap
The 4.10 stock rear gear is far too tall at even the current power level. First gear is largely useless, I can use 5th gear all the way down to 30mph, and I can hit the 6th gear rev limiter rather hard (@ GPS indicated 119mph). With the 3.63 rear gear, it's more relaxed at speed, 1st gear is usable, and i have a rev limit past my aero limit.
- FM clutch and 10.3lb flywheel
Clutch capacity for 315wtq, stock one will need a gentle foot once I have the FM2 on, it's near it's holding limit already. The OEM flywheel is 21lbs of pig iron, so this is a huge weight reduction. When I had it on my 99 Miata, it no-load rev'ed as fast as my RX-8, which made the timing of throttle blips for heel-toeing spot on perfect.
- FM VMaxx Miata Specific coilovers, non-adjustable
- OEM Hardtop with steel brackets


Installed only for track:
- Carbotech XP12/XP10 brake pads
- Pinned and Vented donor hood (Emerald Green)


Future Plans:
- 13.7lb Black or bronze 15x9 6ULs
- Custom frame mounted splitter, downforce, reduced drag, bumper protection.
- Better seats (unknown where I want to go with that)
- Big brake upgrade
- 15x9 6ULs with RS3s
- Blueprinted front hubs
- Brake ducting for track
- New BOV (current one is designed more for recirc, and the vent line fitting stripped out on the track)
- intake manifold swap to a 1999 manifold design (mid range gains)
- a vacuum rail, fitted to either the manifold directly or the firewall
- OEM steering oil cooler line replaced with a heat sink (makes more room for properly mounting the intercooler, solves a future problem of overheating the fluid which is more common than you might expect)
- Adjust coilover pre-load
- relocate windshield washer fluid tank to trunk
- Flat undertray from front bumper to rear axle



This is a composite chart of the most common upgrade path for Mazdaspeed Miata's when it comes to engine power. Note that all curves except for the highest are at 5,400ft and 91 octane. The highest had 93 octane, still 5,400ft. Spool will be a bit better down at my altitude, and I have the good gas available.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I purchased #36 in October of 2012 with the following:
- Flyin Miata Sway bars
- FM downpipe, cat, and catback
- FM intake
- FM throttle body elbow
- FM boost gauge
- Hard Dog Sport Bar
- Aftermarket 2 stage heated seats
- Hard wired Passport radar detector cord
- Hardwired FM transmitter
- Hardwired USB power cord
- Brand new Blizzaks on a set of aftermarket 15" wheels. The OEM wheels are 17s and are something like 19lbs, WAY too heavy.


With the 99's wheels on (yellowing center caps get even more yellow when I play with color correction):


Engine bay shot the day of purchase:



A side note on rarity, mine is one of only 426 Black Mica MSM's ever produced.
2004 had 2,000 Velocity Red and 2,000 Titanium Grey for the US Market. Canada only got Velocity Red, Australia only got Velocity Red and Sunlight Silver, Japan only got White
2005 had 1,428 total before a fire shut down production (same fire that shut down production of the RX-8 Shinka's). The US got Lava Orange and Black Mica added to their color selection, Canada only had Titanium Grey, Australia had Black Mica and Titanium Grey added. Japan didn't have any 2005s, and no other country got any.
Australia only got 13 Black Mica's though, the US got the other 413. Yes, I did quite a bit of research to figure it all out.
Lava Orange is the rarest, at 394 ever produced.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

January 2012, I installed an ebay 27x7x2.5 intercooler. At $65 for the intercooler, it's basically also my radiator rock guard. Zero problem letting it take the brunt of stuff getting thrown at it. Cheaply replaced periodically as maintenance.


For a comparison between the OEM intercooler and what I upgraded to:


The OEM intercooler is 8" x 8" x 3". And it heat soaks insanely fast. A single WOT from 3rd gear into 5th was sending my intake temps from ~45-50f to 120f+. The upgrade fixed that.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

February 2012, I installed the Flyin Miata O2 signal modifier. This basically intercepts the signal from the stock narrow band O2 sensors and prevents the ECU from ever seeing a lean condition. The OEM ECU is already a patched N/A ECU, and it simply can't easily handle the extra airflow from the intake and exhaust. Lean spikes are common, and the ECU can pull MORE fuel even during a lean spike. We want to prevent that obviously.

I also snagged a set of black 16x7 RPF1s with pretty much brand new Conti DW tires. Pretty decent tire for my commuting.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

March 2013, I got a baseline dyno at Agile Automotive. Not a "stock" baseline obviously, but my personal baseline for where I'm starting from. I didn't bother to get one before the intercooler upgrade, since that should have been done previously. Having the OEM intercooler is a "flaw" in my opinion, not a representation of where power is at. 162wtq / 177whp @ 8psi, not bad.
Original dyno: http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/20...line_tq_hp.jpg
http://www.mazda-speed.com/albums/20...oost_small.png


What doesn't show here is how horribly that effects the driveability. On transient throttle into boost, the factory ECU take far too long to switch to open loop, pulls timing and fuel like crazy, and you can be sitting at 8psi, 15-16 AFRs, and not accelerating for 1-4 seconds before the ECU will finally decide to catch up. It's my single biggest complaint with a stock MSM.


Latest after dyno tuning with the Hydra

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Late March, the FM2 turbo conversion (GT2560R turbo, requires complete removal of all OEM hardware since the OEM turbo flanges are unique), Crossflow radiator, and Hydra ECU show up, with numerous ancillaries, including Deatschwerks 700cc injectors, iconel studs, etc... Standard FM2 conversion options. The Stage2 fan pack is still on back-order until May, and I am trying to grab someone else's stage2 kit before my track event, as I'd rather not track it on the OEM fans.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Hydra install:
I decided to install the injectors and the O2 sensor before the rest of the Hydra, as I was unsure if I was going to run into a problem with either that would prevent me from completing.

Saturday I installed the 700cc injectors. I don't have any pics of the install itself as my hands were too dirty to use my tablet camera.


Then on to the O2 sensor. I spent a bit of time hunting for where the front O2 plug is, and finally found it tucked away on the OEM manifold. Took about 5 minutes of figuring out the right combination of tools to get the leverage needed on it, and it broke free and popped out without much fuss. Installing the WBO2 took much longer as I was having trouble getting the threads to engage. I got it installed:


(If you are asking yourself if something is wrong here, just keep reading)

Next I moved to the top of the install instructions for the Hydra itself.

Running the adapter cable itself was a pain, lots of delays and frustration, as the prior owner ran the added electronic wiring through the only available passage from driver's side to passenger's side, so lots of obstructions:


I got it though:



Through the work, my car-mounted tablet stand was very handy, having access to the instruction PDF as well as forums and searches, etc...


Lots of stuff to pull out of the way behind the glove box, as the prior owner mounted the FM transmitter there, along with other wiring.


I had about 4 feet of vacuum line from the FM O2 signal modifier that I had just coiled up and zip tied out of the way, so I removed the FM O2 mod, uncoiled that line, and passed it through to the Hydra. Already T'd into the boost gauge vacuum line without leaks.

I ran the WBO2 wiring for the Hydra through the same firewall hole that I had used for the O2 mod:



It was shortly after this that I took a break for dinner, and someone pointed out what I missed:
Well shame on me for missing that.


I also successfully snagged a FM stage 2 fan pack from another member here, so will be doing the Crossflow install next weekend, and won't have to track on the OEM fans.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Sunday, I had some back and forth with one of the MSM exports, and found out that the FM downpipe I already have installed has a bung available for the WBO2, just plugged. Not mentioned anywhere in the manuals, except for the installation instructions for the downpipe (which I hadn't looked at since I already had it installed)

I got the downpipe off, with most of the trouble coming from these two bolts. They are not only heavily rusted and clearly not meant for exhaust use, they aren't even metric! I ended up using a sledge to hammer a wrench onto the nut side and got enough of a grip on the bolt side to get them free. They promptly went into the trash after this pic. Fortunately I have several sets of brand new metric exhaust bolts and nuts on hand, so replacing them was easy.


I then ran to the store for a 10mm hex key socket and got the O2 bung plug out, and then the WBO2 installed:


The plug itself:


Shortly after I took the above two pics, I decided that now was the best time to remove the factory NBO2 post-cat, and so did that, installing the plug in that location.

While re-installing the downpipe, I inadvertently rubbed against the driver's front brake line, wiping away the dust to reveal a handy surprise!


Yup! The prior owner already installed SS brake lines. So I can sell the new set I have on the shelf.

The most nervous I have been so far during the install, wiring the WBO2 into the Hydra, but i got it done with none of the other wires pulling out and validated my points over and over. An annoyance was that the manual has the slots pictured from the perspective of the Hydra itself, not the plugs, so the numbered slots are mirrored in orientation.


The Hydra all plugged in, and a shot demonstrating how much other wiring I have there. This is going to be all nicely zip tied up and out of the way. For now though, the Hydra's wiring takes precedence, everything else can just get out of the way.



So I turned the key to on, connected the laptop, and started checking through the pre-startup stuff. Everything seemed good, except I missed the battery. It was low at 10.5v or so. No go on starting, so I disconnected the battery and put it on a charger for a couple hours. Went back out and after a ~10sec crank, no fire. Waited for about 5 minutes, poking through things, gave it another shot, this time firing up after about a 5sec crank.

Sounded awful! HUGE vacuum leak sound PSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHH loud enough my wife could hear it in the house along with the engine/exhaust note, unstable idle, and like a V8 was firing on only random cylinders. Really really really deep and unnerving. I let it run for about 60 seconds checking for where the leak might be, and it was clear that the vacuum leak sound was originating from the vicinity of the upper intake manifold. Grabbed some carb cleaner and sprayed around a few spots, and while it was hard to tell with the rough idle, it sounded momentarily better when I shot down near the fuel injectors between the valve cover and the UIM.

So I shut it down and started removing things. Once the UIM was off, didn't take me long to see the problem:


Yup, that ring you see (placed there for the camera) was not in it's proper place at the base of injector #3, and injector #3 was only loosely pointing at the injection port. :shockeyes:

Fuel wasn't sprayed everywhere, and a theory is that the vacuum from the expanding cylinder was sufficient to pull the fuel vapor into the engine. I stopped for the night, since the fuel system was freshly pressurized and my wife wouldn't enjoy me coming to bed soaked in gasoline.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Monday I was into the city for work, but when I got home I got everything back together. But my wife was using the laptop for her schoolwork, and it's probably too late for the neighbors to be pleased at my MSM exhaust rattling their dishes. Yeah, the deep bass tone sub 1,500rpm just reverberates through the walls, rattling the dishes in our hours and our immediate neighbors.

Some manifold pics while it was apart. Pretty clean for 47,000 miles if my 99 was anything to base it on.



Lower intake manifold, still installed on the car:



And back on the ground, ready to fire in the morning:

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

This morning I fired it up successfully, and it was idling at 10.3 AFR, even once it warmed up, so spent some time slowly leaning it out. Idle stabilized at 930-960rpm where it should be, no fuel leaks, no vacuum leaks.

I idled for over an hour going through stuff and getting it leaned out, then turned on data logging and took it for a 2 mile short drive, staying out of boost. Throttle is smooth, AFRs out of boost are in the 12s, so still a bit rich at the moment. The Hydra's auto-tune feature should be able to lean that up a bit. I stayed out of boost for now, will venture into that territory later today.

blackenedwings

Excellent build thread, really fun car. Glad you let me drive it around a few times at its earlier power levels. It's going to be a blast when you have the larger turbo and 250-275 whp. Can't wait to see you scooting around NJMP in it.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

looking good man but ditch the cat

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's not a restriction on power, though yes, I'd like to have one of BHR's resonators welded in instead. I'm curious what it will sound like on a piston engine. Changing that now is pointless though, since the entire downpipe geometry has to change once I do the turbo conversion.


There is quite a bit I could do for more power with the hardware I have, but most of it isn't much point since I have the hardware and software to easily go much higher than my engine's strength limitations. Stuff like eeking more power out of it with a cat removal just pushes me closer to that limit, or over it. I won't be struggling for power at all. If I rebuilt the bottom end with just stronger rods, my next limitation will be the GT2560, as it will start to run out of efficiency around 300-325whp.

Habs24 7

RIWWP- see the new Road and Track yet?? they review Flyin Miatas v8 swap. thought u might find it interesting.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I didn't, but yes, FM's V8 swaps are quite nice. I see updates of the swaps in progress regularly.

I'd be tempted to go that way at some point if I wanted better throttle response AND more than ~350whp. I'm pretty sure I'll be satisfied with ~250-270whp though

Habs24 7

R&T liked it alot. called it a half-pint viper

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

Subbed! I rode in this car and it was already impressive.

Jazzmeson

iTrader: (5)

It was a real tough decision between the RX-8 and the Miata. I really miss our velocity red Mazdaspeed MX-5... It is one of the very few cars that my dad really regretted selling, but we no other choice due to financial reasons. I remember doing quite a bit of research on those cars; it's amazing on how much potential they have from bolt ons; especially the Flyin' Miata parts! It's been almost a year since we got rid of the car and I sadly found out that the owner totaled it several months ago and bought a GTI.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ouch, that hurts


The theory is that the engineers whipped up a real MSM, but the advertising/lawyers/PR guys deliberately hamstrung it to keep it from trumping the NC, which was already getting finalized and headed toward production. It has a very artificially restrictive intake and exhaust from the factory, and there was no reason for the extra bracing, hardened transmissions gears, and that turbo sizing for only a 30whp gain. +80whp (over an N/A NB) to where the FM bolt ons put it is far more likely.



It's not as refined or as confidence inspiring as the 8, and it's happy point in hitting the curves is at a lower speed, but still a joy to drive.

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

Sub

Jazzmeson

iTrader: (5)

Definitely makes sense and I believe it as well. I would love to get my hands on another one, but they are so damn rare now; I've only seen three of them last year which were two velocity red and a black mica tracking at Buttonwillow. It is a bit more on the aggressive side and loves to fishtail on high speed turns, but I love that feeling of the turbo at 4,000 RPM.

Speaking of NC Miatas...



If I can't get another Mazdaspeed, a Club version of the NC is pretty nice too. I remember seeing one at the dealership last week and couldn't help but want one.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The stock suspension has some flaws, namely the rear shock valving is too stiff for the spring rate. It does tend to make it tail happy

monchie

Miata on steroids...lol

Subbed!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

Monchie, you never saw your own subforum did you....

monchie

I did last night, its on the lounge section...i was surprised. It was a April fool's joke or something...but anyway, being a mod for 1 day feels like i'm running the show...lol

Let me do this again...jk, he he...