ASH8

Like I said some time ago because Mazda/Ford MZR's Turbo are finished, Mazda has no plans in the short-medium term for Mazdaspeed 3 or 6 (MPS) replacements, just like any RX-?..

Main reason, is cost, capacity and demand, but when they do, (my tip) put your money on a supercharged 4 cylinder SA AWD MS3 (MPS), I don't think we will see it until Series II update of all new BM Mazda 3 just out, think about 2016-17.

Mazda 2014 Mazda3 MPS - Wanted: New-gen Mazda3 MPS | GoAuto

MAZDA is keen to add a potent MPS hot variant – potentially with all-wheel-drive – to its new Mazda3 range in time, but with so many new-generation mainstream model lines in the works, a niche halo project of this type may have to wait a while.

The new-generation version of Australia’s favourite private car, and second top-selling overall after the more fleet-favoured Toyota Corolla, is poised for an Australian launch early next year with a pair of naturally aspirated SkyActiv petrol engines shared with the CX-5.

The larger of these, a 138kW/250Nm 2.5-litre unit, serves as a neat replacement for the outgoing SP25 ‘warm’ variant. But there’s no replacement for the 190kW/380Nm front-drive MPS turbo range-topper in site, despite the wishes of global deputy program manager Takeo Moriuchi.

“In order to create that type of model, we must think about cost and its effectiveness, so for now we’ve first made a judgement that we don’t offer it,” he told GoAuto this week. “But we’ll keep monitoring feedback from the market and may look at the possibility.”

Moriuchi-san spoke with us at a prototype drive of the new Mazda3 held in Victoria this week, where he was effusive about the company’s dedication to making driving ‘fun’ – translating into a fierce desire to create hot halo models such as the MPS.

“Our essence is still to celebrate driving, but we believe we shouldn’t just offer this across one dedicated variant, we must offer pleasure of driving across all Mazda models,” he said.

“Mazda’s engineers and also Mazda’s management, they all love driving and having fun behind the wheel, so our wish is that we’d like to really do it (an MPS-type model) if we could.”

One major stumbling block to a speedy development may be the fact that the company with the ‘Zoom Zoom’ moniker must also plough significant resources into the continued renewal of its entire global fleet, and the development of at least one new member, underpinned by its cost-saving, modular SkyActiv architecture.

Newly profitable last financial year for the first time in five years, the Japanese brand has recently rolled-out the new CX-5, Mazda3 and Mazda6 – all based on essentially the same platform – but still has the next-generation Mazda2, Mazda MX-5 (the costs were offset here somewhat by licensing the platform to Alfa Romeo), all-new CX-3 mini SUV to come before the end of 2015.

Still, expect a new-generation MPS to emerge at some point within this timeframe.

Furthermore, Mazda has already transplanted to CX-5’s AWD system under the regular Mazda3 for snowy markets, so it would be a fair bet to expect any MPS-type car to have all-paw grip as well, to better put the power down.

The outgoing front-drive MPS was a handful, with a big slab of turbo power going through the front wheels eliciting some tram-tracking or torque steer when floored.

When quizzed on potential engine options, Moriuchi-san did not divulge in great details, save to remark: “I think its all entirely depending... it could be naturally aspirated, it could be turbo, we don’t know yet”.

The popularity of hot variants of regular cars in Australia – although, that being said, the MPS was never a big seller – and the halo effect they offer to an entire model line make them important Down Under.

Mazda Australia public relations manager Steve Maciver said the company’s local arm would have its hand firmly in the air the moment an MPS emerges.

Bladecutter

Say what?
Which markets are these with AWD Mazda 3's?

BC.

ASH8

Europe/Russia..uses same system as CX-5 AWD.

....

Tokyo Motor Show...November, 2013.

Mazda are also showing off their new 3 (not yet launched in Japan) with SA engine and Toyota's hybrid system which goes on sale Only in Japan at same time.

Also they have a new Mazda 3 with working CNG (Natural Gas)...not for production ....yet...on display.

Don't think we will be seeing the new ND MX-5, as first thought @ TMS, Alfa are putting the project behind...knew this would happen trying to install a FIAT drive-train (Engine/Trans) into SA ND platform.

Mazda never like doing this, I don't understand why they even permitted it from first negotiations, also hate to think the CAN compliance/compatibility issues, let alone what Alfa Dealers will be using for Diagnostics Test and Calibration, remember Mazda uses Ford IDS Software and Mazda specific ETAS/Bosch passthrough...Alfa Dealers will be happy IF they have to purchase a separate system just for this Mazda/Alfa Spider.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ash, isn't the deal with Fiat just Mazda building the Fiat on the ND platform with Fiat supplied engines, skins, and suspensions? If so, I would think Fiat would supply the electronics and the wiring too, keeping it all within the Fiat electronics standard.

ASH8

What and the Dash too (electronics)...I don't think it will have a Fiat only made suspension, Mazda use a single line model production in all their plants...there will need to be more compatibility than just 'a' outer body skin and seat/interior trim for Alfa.

AFAIK, it will only be FIAT Engine/Trans which has to mate (bolt) into the ND Mazda's SA Platform, Mazda will not be making 'a' separate under platform (inner skirts and chassis rails) to fit a new Fiat complete drive train??..I just cant see it...way too costly...but then again, there is always a first.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

agreed, the under-platform / frame a whole will be identical between the ND and the Fiat I expect. Fiat's engine will have motor mounts that fit the ND's frame rails and put the drivetrain where it needs to be.

By Fiat suspension, I expect it would just be Fiat selected sway bars, shocks, and springs, possibly different perches / top hats, but ND control arms and mounting points on the ND frame. I entirely expect that Fiat has the challenge to make their parts work with the ND, and not the other way around. Mazda would cooperate, but I don't think Mazda would compromise to mellow the chassis to fit Fiat.

ASH8

You are talking a lot of unnecessary extra cost, Fiat sending parts from Italy to Japan for assembly then back again?, nup I cant see it personally, yes, engines and trans cost and shipping would be enough...everything else would have to be Mazda sourced.

But, yes, just shocks/wheels/tyres specified to what Fiat wants is nothing, Mazda will still source it and probably offer the exact shocks (parts) it in ND line up anyway...I just can not see Mazda doing any more than Engine and Trans specified and supplied by Fiat from Fiat, I certainly can not see wiring, modules being radically different to ND...obviously Mazda has to have these Alfa's in full working condition to export and to warranty.

Someone on Miata forum said Mazda will make full bodies minus engine/trans and ship to Fiat to install....IMO in no way would they consider this...Mazda are not stupid.

Anyway back to MS...

MattMPS

The Alfa will be built @ Hiroshima, i confirm.

differences with ND will be:

-styling inside and outside
-overall dimensions (alfa bigger)
-engine (alfa with 1750 turbo of 4C)

no info about the rest of mechanic.

about MPS: no engine suitable, turbo skyactiv are not ready for now...so no MPS (3 or 6) on the way…

my sources say the the "roster" is full until march 2016 and the cars scheduled are:

-new 2
-cx3
-ND
-big SUV (maybe with turbo SA?)

-maybe a "surprise" (i don't know what could be)… but no rotary

after that date things are less clear but some people @ Mazda Europe said there is plenty of stuff "on grill"

N.B. strangely no info about new 5/minivan..i don't know if means no substitute or not.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I remember one of Mazda's press releases saying that they will be built at Hiroshima. There is already going to be a number of shipments from Italy to Japan, and as long a Fiat is paying for it, I don't see why they can't ship the electronics, wiring harness, shocks, and springs too? Though agreed, the shocks and springs will likely come from a more generic manufacturer that Mazda already has access to.

MattMPS

if i know Fiat's way of business they will let the japanese mounting their stuff on the car…

In my opinion Mazda have a big control on that production….number of Alfas produced, final price, positioning etc….

example. if Alfa have a +200hp 1.8 turbo i'm pretty sure that ND will have a 1.6-2.0 NA engines….

get different priced cars is the goal…

ASH8

There is and are no Turbo SA being considered at all, NONE, not even in development, and there wont be, Mazda wont go turbo...they have patent a new Supercharger for SA.

Tokyo MS display schedule is out, No ND MX-5..as I thought.

My bet we will see something next year and launched at a US Motor-show, Chicago maybe?...NA is their largest MX-5 market.

MattMPS

yes, ASH…for "turbo" i mean also eventually a SC engine…not correct, but…sorry.

ASH8

..

I don't think we will ever see Mazda going turbo again, again they have been badly burnt with Ford turbo's, just about every MS3 and MPS has needed one or two new turbo's (under warranty), every gas turbo they have ever put into production has had long term problems, FD, GD 6...even the turbo diesels are questionable...we will see with SA-T.

MattMPS

i've seen some MZR DISI turbochargers broken also here in Italy ( but not in my ex-car ...100.000 kms without any issue).

about diesels: the majority of problems on diesels* are because turbochargers are with Variable Geometry, that is a delicate component.

SA diesels are Bi-turbo but none of them is with Variable Geometry Turbo (am i correct?)…less problems IMHO


*for every manufacturer…BMW turbo of diesels are A MESS.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

I assume there will be zero plans for a 6cyl SA engine. I also presume that the new large CUV/SUV repalcement for the CX-9 will be using said supercharged SA 4cyl which could possibly be shared with a potential MS3/3 MPS? Won't be the first time a CUV (CX-7) is sharing an engine with a MS product.


None the less. Looks like Mazda will be taking a break from "Zoom-Zoom" for a period of time.

Bladecutter

Oh, I don't know about that.

Does anyone know what size SkyActiv-G engines are going to be offered in the Miata? Would the 2.5 even fit?

I figure you stuff the 184hp/185 torque engine into the new Miata, and it's going to have a pretty good about of zoom-zoom to work with. If Mazda upped the hp/liter ratio from the current 73.6 hp per liter to something a bit more satisfying, like 80 hp/liter, and you would then have a 200 hp miata, pushing ~190 ft-lbs of torque.

That would probably be overkill for the Miata, but it is possible.

BC.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure they could design some engine variant that is lighter internals to allow a higher redline, re-designed intake and exhaust to take advantage of that, though it's more likely that they will use their S/C direction to boost the power more simply while keeping the N/A-like characteristics.