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Nice to see my Audi cousins (I own a 2002 A4 3.0) do well in the latest Car and Driver...
RS6 beats out the M5 and E55 AMG
New S4 beats out the M3 and C32 AMG
I don't want to start a huge flame war about which is better and why...I think they are all great cars for different reasons...its just nice to see the Audi's getting some good press, because I'm an Audi fan.
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The RS6 and Merc had an advantage of being newer models. The M5 still beat the E55, but when the next gen M5 with a 500Hp V10 comes out it will whomp everyone. BMW is also the only company that didn't "cheat" by uses forced induction. You can probably tell I am biased toward BMW, but I still like Audis.
So using turbos is "cheating", but just stuffing in a bigger, heavier engine isn't?
__________________ "We do not intend to withdraw from the rotary. In fact, were are now developing the next generation of that engine."
--Hisakazu Imaki, Mazda's president and chief executive, Los Angeles Times 11/11/06
Originally posted by m477 So using turbos is "cheating", but just stuffing in a bigger, heavier engine isn't?
Yea but BMW uses smaller displacements and gets the horsepower out of them.
Case in point is the 3.2L, 333 horsepower M3 engine. Audi engineers know they can't make that happen so they have resorted to (and still do) turbos on their cars.
While I like Audi, I don't like it for a performance car... I like it as a luxury automobile because I feel that their interiors are amongst the best, they have excellent layout and ergonomics and give you a helluva lot for the money, specially when compared to BMW and Mercedes.
That said though, no Audi with AWD will ever substitute for the fun *I* can have in a BMW with RWD. Now some people may disagree... that's their right... but I always think it's more fun PERSONALLY (people get so jumpy when I generalize) that a balanced RWD car is more fun than an imbalanced and often (specially from Audi) heavy, and moreso NOSE-heavy car.
The S4 is a nice car, no doubt... but it's not for me. Regardless of any reviews I'd still take the M3 over the S4, and M5 over the RS6.
Just my $.02. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.
Listen...like I said, I didn't want to start a flame war....
I would take any of the cars believe me...the thing with the M3 is that it so extreme in every way, from looks to handling to power, that most average drivers cannot even drive one properly. The S4, on the other hand, has equivalent performance and handling, yet is much more drivable for the average driver. Due to the weight, AWD, and inherent stability of Audi's, the S4 is much easier to drive faster. I love the M3 and the S4, and for completely different reasons. How sweet would it be to have both...:D
The next RS4 will be scary...probably be out in 2 years and MIGHT be coming to the US...please, please, please!
Not like I could afford it anyway :p
As per the S4 being easier to drive... DEFINATELY!
There's a saying about AWD... goes like this:
AWD can make a bad driver look good, and RWD can make even a great drive look bad.
I think that's the jist of it... It's just a matter of knowing how to drive the car and if C&D decided to review the car on out-of-the-box driveability, then the S4 will win, no doubt about it. However the M3 being as complex as it is, with a very tail happy oversteer due to the insane amount of power, well... for most drivers it is more difficult to control, especially when the countersteering is not as intuitive as the Audi's understeer... which you just keep adding more steering as the curve doesn't 'take.' Do that with the M3 and you'll find yourself tailfirst really fast
It's all about preference in the end, and like I said I like them both for different things. I think I'd look like a total *** in the M3 because I'm not a skilled driver, specially not with RWD. However this summer I've taken the initiative of saving my pennies to enroll in a driving school that will teach me hopefully the proper way to control and HAVE FUN in a RWD car. And if I can successfully come away with some knowledge about RWD I didn't have before... then I think the M3 would be an even more inviting choice.
Originally posted by Hercules I think I'd look like a total *** in the M3 because I'm not a skilled driver, specially not with RWD. However this summer I've taken the initiative of saving my pennies to enroll in a driving school that will teach me hopefully the proper way to control and HAVE FUN in a RWD car.
yeah, that's something i gotta do too... i mean, i look bad in a kart for god's sakes :o ahahaha...