Rotary Titus

sorry if it's a repost
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...1_mazdaspeed6/

"turbocharged 270-hp 2.3-liter four"
and "Ironically, the Mazdaspeed 6 will almost certainly accelerate faster than Mazda's similarly priced sports car, the RX-8."

NOOOOO!!!! why would mazda come up with something to compete with its own flagship sports car?!?!?!?

RobDickinson

Uh because it'll have all the problems associated with a large heavy high boost turbo saloon? Bolting a turbo and 4WD onto a car doesnt make it a sports car, and the RX8 was never the quickest in a straight line.

RXE16T

Because it will lead more buyers to the Mazda brand.

Some people may want the performance but not the extroverted styling and may have been turned off from the Rx8 due to its flashy look whereas a relatively conservative looking four door sedan would be more suiting.

Red Devil

I could care less if it's faster than our 8's. Seems a bit out of place for things to be like that, but for Mazda to compete, I think it's a great idea.

Jump120MPH

Wait til the Mazdaspeed 3 comes out. I heard it was suppose to have about 250hp and suppose to handle really well.

Red Devil

Mazdaspeed3, probably have the same 2.3 engine?

mysql101

There are real pics of the supercharged RX8, and a breif review of it in a site people keep linking to. The caption is the supercharged rx8 is beats the boxster S and 350Z.

By the time this comes out, the faster rx8 will be out, or close to it, so don't worry about it.

Jump120MPH

Im sure it will be the 2.3 thats in it now just turbo charged.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

its not a big deal, the rx8 is still the handling king in the mazda pen (well maybe the miata, that mazdaspeed miata is a lot of fun). The mazdaspeed6 will be a great straight line runner though, but i imagine it will still suffer from heavy underrsteer and weigh quite a bit. a mazdaspeed rx8 will come out eventually, you all need to chill lol

Jump120MPH

Yeah the MS 8 will come out eventually. Mazda would not release the MS6 or MS3 that have more HP than the 8 without having the MS8 ready to go.

crossbow

Its already detuned...its got a 100:0 (F/R) standard torque distribution. Go FAWD!!!

AbusiveWombat

You do know it can transfer up to 50% of the torque to the rear, right? A similar AWD system can be found on the VW R32. I read one review that compared the R32 to the EVO and STi and the editor said that the R32 felt the most nuetral in the corners. I wouldn't be so quick to judge...I bet this thing will woop the RX8 on the track or in a straight line. You guys should hope for this too if there's ever going to be an RX8 with some stones. Remember the MS Rx8 (if there is one) will certainly have to be the performance king (straight line and in the corners). The higher the MS6 raises the bar the better.

foxman

Good point as this makes a high hurdle to keep the MS8 king, I think its got to make around 300hp and if it does, people will be satisfied with that.

Rotary Titus

yea lol that's true, the more ppl start buying mazda, the more money mazda has for r&d for even better rotaries :D
I'm just like one of those ppl who want smack themselves whenever something better comes out for the price I got something less for (like getting a brand new car only the find out next yr that another car comes out that tramps it for less price!) :p
and about the supercharger, I didn't have time to read the like 20+ pages in the performance forum, so it is actually out already? It's aftermarket right? Any words from mazdaspeed coming out with a factory covered package (not likely?)?
if the 3 comes out with mazdaspeed it'll be sweet, already it posts slalom speeds equal to the 8!

zoom44

crossbow knows- he's a mazda6 driver, and doesnt like this MS6.

Ike

I just want to see Mazda make a car that I don't think is underpowered sometime this decade. Bring it on Mazda, bump it up to 300hp and go for the bigboys!

Feras

iTrader: (1)

has mazda ever made a car that people would not consider underpowered...hell people thought the FD was under powered especially when compared to supras, 3000GTs, 300ZXs. I think mazda is in the niche market of making beautiful handling cars and emphasizing the driving experience...i can think of one other mainstream company that is as concerned with driver enjoyment, and thats BMW (or at least it was)

Ike

It is possible to make a beautiful handling car with more HP, I've seen it done! :p

Red Devil

BMW also makes a 500hp M5, not much finesse in that. Mazda should step up to the plate with something.

AbusiveWombat

Well I'm an EVO and a Mazda6 driver. I know how good a 50:50 AWD system can work. You don't need to have a rear biased AWD system to have decent handling. The MS6 AWD system is 100:0 (F:R bias) when there is no wheel slip and can transfer up to 50% torque to the rear when slip is encountered (50:50 bias). This is a better system then my EVO's because there is less drivetrain loss when there is no slip.

I also believe that Mazda will stay true to it's roots and bring out a AWD sedan that is not only fast in a a straight line but will also have excellent handling. Look at all the Mazdaspeed cars....they're all top of their class for handling. I expect no less from the MS6.

Gord96BRG

Doubtful. By Mazda's own published performance numbers, the MS6 does 0-100 km/h in 6.6 seconds, and the RX-8 does 0-100 in 6.4 seconds. (MS6 number from Mazda's press release from the Paris show, RX-8 numbers as published by Mazda UK, look it up on their web site if you like). Don't panic - the stock RX-8 is still faster.

PS - FWD-biased AWD systems (part-time AWD) are inferior for handling purposes to real 50:50 AWD systems, the same way FWD is inferior to RWD. The advantages of part-time AWD systems like that are mechanical efficiency and manufacturing cost, but there aren't any performance advantages. Period!

Regards,
Gordon

AbusiveWombat

You say there aren't any performance advantages but in the same sentence you admit they have better machanical efficiency. Wouldn't a more efficient system be advantagous?

Also, you'll need to explain why a 50:50 AWD system and system like the MS6 are like FWD vs. RWD. The MS6 center diff detects slip, and adjust the torque accordingly. It's not like the driver has to press a button or shift the car into AWD mode. The torque shift takes milliseconds. Like I said before, the R32 has a similar AWD setup and one of the reviews I read said it was the most nuetral between it, the EVO, and the STi. Which I found surprizing since the STi can send 65% of it's torque to the rear.

PoorCollegeKid

Since the current Mazda 6s 5MT runs 0-60 times in the mid to upper 6s (6.6sec-6.9sec), I would imaging that the MS6 6MT would be faster than 6.6sec to 60mph. I think that Mazda may be trying to promise a little and deliver a lot with this car, rather than having to backpedal on their performance figures when the car is released like they did with the '8. For the MS6 to sell, it's going to have to be faster to 60 than the currently available and much cheaper V6 6s. It just wouldn't make sense to release a special, performance edition of a car with 50 more horsepower that doesn't go any faster in a straight line than a cheaper, lower performance version.

If the MS6's 0-60 times really are almost identical to the Mazda 6s's, I wonder where the car's AWD traction advantage and extra 50hp went? The addition of a driveshaft and differential that isn't even used once the car gets going certainly shouldn't slow it down by that much, and the car even gets an additional gear in its tranny to help make up for the added weight. It just doesn't make sense for this car to be no quicker than its lesser sibling.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

0-100kmh is not 0-60, its 0-62 a couple tenths more on any car between 60 and 62, ok maybe not on a mclaren.

PoorCollegeKid

Oops, I didn't catch the 0-100kmh thing. It seems like a .3-.4 difference (the 2.3L 6i runs 0-100kmh in 8.8s and 0-60 in 8.4s), which would make the MS6 a 6.2-6.5s 0-60 car. This is a better time than what I had mistakenly assumed it to be, but it still slower than the 227hp WRX (5.2-5.8s 0-60) or Saab 9-2X Aero (heavier version of the WRX, 6.0 0-60 as claimed by Saab). The Impreza is a lighter car by some 300-400lbs, (the 9-2X by 200-300lbs) but I would think that 30 extra horsepower, an extra gear, and a bit more grunt off the line would let the MS6 at least break 6.0s 0-60. Maybe Mazda's time is without a launch? I'm curious to see what the real, production model does rather than trying to estimate its times.