Mazda announces how much they will charge for new MX-5 World Cup race car
10-02-2015, 01:55 PM
#1
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Mazda announces how much they will charge for new MX-5 World Cup race car
Mazda announces how much they will charge for new MX-5 World Cup race car
Mazda's New MX-5 Miata Cup Is an Ultra-Affordable Race Car ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
Mazda's New MX-5 Miata Cup Is an Ultra-Affordable Race Car ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
10-17-2015, 10:40 AM
#2
That still seems a little pricey to me.. Frankly just because some are asking $40,000 for a used version doesn't mean they're selling it at that price and I think the new car being priced around that number would be about right.
Last edited by FunRun8; 10-17-2015 at 10:42 AM.
10-17-2015, 10:51 AM
#3
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I don't understand your statement FunRun.
That is the price for a brand new ND, zero miles, no VIN on it (can't ever be registered) that Mazda ships to the company building them, and they build a to-spec race car complete with upgrades and every single piece of safety gear you need, and then ship it to you.
And for a brand new race car, that is REALLY cheap. The $40,000 comment isn't to say that spec miatas are overpriced, it's to show how low the Mazda price actually is.
That is the price for a brand new ND, zero miles, no VIN on it (can't ever be registered) that Mazda ships to the company building them, and they build a to-spec race car complete with upgrades and every single piece of safety gear you need, and then ship it to you.
And for a brand new race car, that is REALLY cheap. The $40,000 comment isn't to say that spec miatas are overpriced, it's to show how low the Mazda price actually is.
10-17-2015, 09:27 PM
#4
Yah I get it and in my opinion it is still a bit pricey. Built and won in many competition cars in my lifetime and I'm well aware of the cost of doing so. I'm certain I can make it cheaper from factory fresh and I can make money on the parts I remove and I can register it for the road too if I so choose and part of the fun and challenge of racing is building the car you compete in and winning with it and possibly even finding that little edge within the spec rules that gives you a slight edge when you're building it, can't be done when someone else does the work for you
10-17-2015, 09:40 PM
#5
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And rest assured, the top MX-5 World Cup teams will buy those pre-built cars from Mazda then spend half that much again optimizing it for all those little edges you mention. Pro teams don't waste time selling take-off parts or registering them for the street. They spend all their time and energy prepping the cars to win, cost be damned. Racers like you (and me) are not the target market for these cars so our judgement on cost is irrelevant.
10-17-2015, 10:44 PM
#6
Sorry, I am the target market, I'm a long time pro, competed in several different competition cars and eventually won in every car I've ever competed in, still hold class track records at several tracks including Sebring.
The idea is supposed to be offering a car that has little that can be done for a spec series, but an old friend of mine Paul Rossi (name might be familiar to some?) a former drag racing and stock class road racing multi-champion team owner and former Chief of Tech for Motorola Cup once said in a TV feature on his success, that in racing, "time on the track is easily found initially and then it comes down to finding pennies and you find another one and before you know it you have a quarter".
I've lived by those words, so I like to start from scratch with the car and build it without mistakes made by others (and they do make them which is what makes racing competition seeing and doing things differently then others). I've seen so many cars built by "professionals" that were well......Not professionally built, especially in the performance sense, a lot of little but critical items (pennies) overlooked, so quite sure I can and have kept up with the top of the best in a class like this without having it done by someone else, paying them and then having to improve on the shortcomings and over sights.
There is probably anywhere between 8 to $10,000 labor mark up by having this shop do these cars that could easily be part of a racing budget instead with just as good a result.
The idea is supposed to be offering a car that has little that can be done for a spec series, but an old friend of mine Paul Rossi (name might be familiar to some?) a former drag racing and stock class road racing multi-champion team owner and former Chief of Tech for Motorola Cup once said in a TV feature on his success, that in racing, "time on the track is easily found initially and then it comes down to finding pennies and you find another one and before you know it you have a quarter".
I've lived by those words, so I like to start from scratch with the car and build it without mistakes made by others (and they do make them which is what makes racing competition seeing and doing things differently then others). I've seen so many cars built by "professionals" that were well......Not professionally built, especially in the performance sense, a lot of little but critical items (pennies) overlooked, so quite sure I can and have kept up with the top of the best in a class like this without having it done by someone else, paying them and then having to improve on the shortcomings and over sights.
There is probably anywhere between 8 to $10,000 labor mark up by having this shop do these cars that could easily be part of a racing budget instead with just as good a result.
10-18-2015, 08:45 AM
#7
10-18-2015, 09:11 AM
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You can still build your own MX-5 Cup car ...
And yes, there is a labor cost in there. I don't think you will find any company doing labor for free, which is what you apparently ask for when you say Mazda should knock $13,000 off the price. This is the option for people that aren't interested in building it themselves. And for a brand new pre-build to spec race car, this is cheap.
And yes, there is a labor cost in there. I don't think you will find any company doing labor for free, which is what you apparently ask for when you say Mazda should knock $13,000 off the price. This is the option for people that aren't interested in building it themselves. And for a brand new pre-build to spec race car, this is cheap.
10-18-2015, 10:29 AM
#9
Yah like I said in my second post, I get it. Of course that's not what I'm asking Mazda to do and I'm really confused as to how simply offering an opinion on the cost has translated into so much aggro being slung in my direction so I'll just make this last reply and move on.
You're last response just reinforced my first response, the car is a bit pricey, for example in contrast you can purchase a base model ZO6 for a little over $10,000 more then this, once is all said and done add some safety gear and go competitive racing in Grand American SGS class and get more fun then one can handle is all I'm saying, there is nothing else needed or allowed on the Vette.
Spec racer series are supposed to be more entry level series or for Dr.s, Lawyers and the like who want to tool around on a given weekend but don't have the time or inclination or even maybe experience to build their own cars but for those who do? They can and there is room in the rules for them to do so and if Mazda is going to build cars in-house and then contract the racing end outside they need to consider that and cut their manufacturing price to the bone, does anyone think that at $37,000 going in that they are doing that? They should also not even manufacturer them in full package they should leave off all off the accessories being removed anyway for competition but at that price they are obviously not doing that.
I feel Mazda should not be making anything on the deal, their return comes from having 35 or 40 MX5's out on the track exclusively demonstrating the cars potential to the world wide customer base not making a profit on the competition car.
That's how other manufacturers have done it in the past and it makes complete financial sense they can not only write off every car purchased as advertising then getting back their investment in tax incentives but they get more cars on the track because more people can afford to compete and more advertising which they can't do when making a profit on them.
I'm sorry that imparting some of my long time empirical experience and simply being a little contrary on the topic has garnered so much negative input, I had no idea telling the facts would be so contentious and apparently somehow, a personal attack on a few.
You're last response just reinforced my first response, the car is a bit pricey, for example in contrast you can purchase a base model ZO6 for a little over $10,000 more then this, once is all said and done add some safety gear and go competitive racing in Grand American SGS class and get more fun then one can handle is all I'm saying, there is nothing else needed or allowed on the Vette.
Spec racer series are supposed to be more entry level series or for Dr.s, Lawyers and the like who want to tool around on a given weekend but don't have the time or inclination or even maybe experience to build their own cars but for those who do? They can and there is room in the rules for them to do so and if Mazda is going to build cars in-house and then contract the racing end outside they need to consider that and cut their manufacturing price to the bone, does anyone think that at $37,000 going in that they are doing that? They should also not even manufacturer them in full package they should leave off all off the accessories being removed anyway for competition but at that price they are obviously not doing that.
I feel Mazda should not be making anything on the deal, their return comes from having 35 or 40 MX5's out on the track exclusively demonstrating the cars potential to the world wide customer base not making a profit on the competition car.
That's how other manufacturers have done it in the past and it makes complete financial sense they can not only write off every car purchased as advertising then getting back their investment in tax incentives but they get more cars on the track because more people can afford to compete and more advertising which they can't do when making a profit on them.
I'm sorry that imparting some of my long time empirical experience and simply being a little contrary on the topic has garnered so much negative input, I had no idea telling the facts would be so contentious and apparently somehow, a personal attack on a few.
10-18-2015, 10:42 AM
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No one is attacking you or aggressive. But yes, offering an opinion in public is bound to find people that disagree with you. We are all different. It's what makes life spicy.
And yes, we just disagree with you, and are willing to debate the points.
Saying "A company shouldn't make a profit on what they are making" isn't very realistic.
No, you can't go racing in a competitive series with a brand new Z06 for $10k more than this. For one, a Z06 starts at $79,400. From there, you can easily be looking at $10,000+ in safety gear alone. Add tires since you probably won't be trying to be competitive on the stock tires, and you are well past $40,000 higher than buying a pre-build spec car from Mazda. The Z06 is also not eligible for the Grand Sport class, as it is well over the max power allowed for the Corvettes.
If you meant a base Corvette, starting at $55,000 ... it's still not realistic to strip, cage, all safety gear (fire suppression, fuel cell, seats, harnesses, etc...), aero, replacement carbon fiber body parts, for a total of all in of $63,000. The MX-5s in the ST class are around $100,000 of work. The GT class are usually around $250,000 for the car. GS would be somewhere in between, double or triple what you are assuming.
I don't think you have a realistic view of the actual costs that go into the cars that you drive.
And yes, we just disagree with you, and are willing to debate the points.
Saying "A company shouldn't make a profit on what they are making" isn't very realistic.
No, you can't go racing in a competitive series with a brand new Z06 for $10k more than this. For one, a Z06 starts at $79,400. From there, you can easily be looking at $10,000+ in safety gear alone. Add tires since you probably won't be trying to be competitive on the stock tires, and you are well past $40,000 higher than buying a pre-build spec car from Mazda. The Z06 is also not eligible for the Grand Sport class, as it is well over the max power allowed for the Corvettes.
If you meant a base Corvette, starting at $55,000 ... it's still not realistic to strip, cage, all safety gear (fire suppression, fuel cell, seats, harnesses, etc...), aero, replacement carbon fiber body parts, for a total of all in of $63,000. The MX-5s in the ST class are around $100,000 of work. The GT class are usually around $250,000 for the car. GS would be somewhere in between, double or triple what you are assuming.
I don't think you have a realistic view of the actual costs that go into the cars that you drive.
10-18-2015, 09:36 PM
#11
Ok too much tit for tat, none of what you said makes any realistic sense I can't stand it when people try to tell me things I know to be fact and try to BS their way into convincing me I know nothing, I'm suddenly reminded why I stopped posting here many months ago and I'll go back to lurking instead of arguing nonsense and then getting banned or whatever.
BTW I clearly stated "base" Corvette... and not GS, but SGS class.
and my numbers are spot on, I've ALWAYS built and competed at the op with budgets others couldn't conceive and much lower then most others can mostly because I do so much build and prep myself and farm out very little, that also translates into my knowing my car better than most and that information can't be bought.
Even an Rx8, which doesn't currently have a pro class is a much better option to race in club racing at least, there isn't enough reason to invest that sort of money into a base pro class just to say you're "pro" it's more about the drive and I am taking an Rx8 and prep it by rule right now for less then $10,000 all in and it will be a front runner and well built looking as professional as any "professional" car out there, in fact surprisingly mine are usually more professionally presented then most because I'm so detail minded then most I see. And yes Mazda should offer the cars profit free, as I said their profit comes out of the sales generated by the promotional aspect of the exposure of the model and brand.
I negotiated a very similar deal with Toyota in Asia to run a spec series there and that's exactly what they did as well and I came from here and brought that promotion to them to bolster their sales and grow fan interest. The cars came prepped and race ready for about $15,000US well under cost. The important thing was getting the Toyota name out there along with the demonstration of the products durability and performance.
BTW I clearly stated "base" Corvette... and not GS, but SGS class.
and my numbers are spot on, I've ALWAYS built and competed at the op with budgets others couldn't conceive and much lower then most others can mostly because I do so much build and prep myself and farm out very little, that also translates into my knowing my car better than most and that information can't be bought. Even an Rx8, which doesn't currently have a pro class is a much better option to race in club racing at least, there isn't enough reason to invest that sort of money into a base pro class just to say you're "pro" it's more about the drive and I am taking an Rx8 and prep it by rule right now for less then $10,000 all in and it will be a front runner and well built looking as professional as any "professional" car out there, in fact surprisingly mine are usually more professionally presented then most because I'm so detail minded then most I see. And yes Mazda should offer the cars profit free, as I said their profit comes out of the sales generated by the promotional aspect of the exposure of the model and brand.
I negotiated a very similar deal with Toyota in Asia to run a spec series there and that's exactly what they did as well and I came from here and brought that promotion to them to bolster their sales and grow fan interest. The cars came prepped and race ready for about $15,000US well under cost. The important thing was getting the Toyota name out there along with the demonstration of the products durability and performance.
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