It's coming back!!!!!!!! (more next rotary 'news')
02-13-2014, 12:31 PM
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It's coming back!!!!!!!! (more next rotary 'news')
02-13-2014, 12:41 PM
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More rumor milling, they have a lot of problems with the article that undermine it's credibility.
Wait, a long way from production ready for a car that has to be tested, QAed, shipped to government testing agencies all over the world for emissions and crash testing, and a parts supply chain built....by next year? No way.
This is contrary to everything we have seen in the past, and the only time this size has been mentioned before is from wild speculation from a rather uncredible magazine. An 800cc per rotor size is what Mazda has developed and put out patents on, and packaged it within the Renesis's block size.
This is a rather absurd bit of speculation. Convertibles tend to weight MORE than coupes on the same platform, due to added strengthening needed due to the lack of a roof. Where are they getting a 400lb weight increase from an engine that is smaller and lighter. 2,800lbs is barely under RX-8 weight, and is HEAVIER than the current Mazda3. Even their MX-5 weight is WAY off, since Mazda has already said that they got the weight down to 2,200-2,300lbs. 2,600lbs is the heaviest I could see the RX-7 being, and that is assuming they make the chassis noticeably bigger than the MX-5. I think 2,500lbs is more likely.
While it's built on the same simple design philosophy as the new MX-5, we're told final design is a long way from being production-ready.
Still, Mazda's rotary development continues, and we hear engine capacity is around 600cc per rotor, slightly smaller than the RX-8's 650cc. Mazda is still deciding between twin or triple rotors; one source suggests a twin rotor is most likely, making the new RX-7 engine a 1.2-liter,
That's where the MX-5 comes in. It will likely end up weighing 2,400 pounds, so the RX-7 should weigh about 2,800 pounds
Last edited by RIWWP; 02-13-2014 at 12:48 PM.
02-13-2014, 12:46 PM
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Ahh, I think this particular article has more than a sniff of plausibility to it. Obviously, everyone has been speculating for some time, but Autoweek is a fairly reliable industry source. For me, with only two seats, I couldn't entertain it myself, but if they've made any progress on the emissions side, this could be the real deal.
02-13-2014, 05:17 PM
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Not a need, a desire. I'm sure there are things from history that you would like to see again, even though it may not be logical, economically viable, etc...
If time keeps marching on, even piston powered cars of today will be labeled with all the same things that the rotary gets now "inefficient", "dirty", "poor mileage", etc... , but it probably won't stop people from wanting them.
How many Chevy big block engine fans are there out there? How many of them would like to see a return of what they like? It's the same thing. There are even people that work to bring back the steam engine.
If time keeps marching on, even piston powered cars of today will be labeled with all the same things that the rotary gets now "inefficient", "dirty", "poor mileage", etc... , but it probably won't stop people from wanting them.
How many Chevy big block engine fans are there out there? How many of them would like to see a return of what they like? It's the same thing. There are even people that work to bring back the steam engine.
02-13-2014, 05:46 PM
#10
Rotary Evolution
it was a loaded question, i know some people like being unique.
but that aside the rotary engine already nearly put mazda under once, the RX8 probably didn't do them any favors either. i personally don't mind it mainly because of the parts on the shelf, if i were paying a shop to build my car i would choose something else more viable. the cars turn cheap rather quickly with the only exception being the FD, so that is another benefit.
but that aside the rotary engine already nearly put mazda under once, the RX8 probably didn't do them any favors either. i personally don't mind it mainly because of the parts on the shelf, if i were paying a shop to build my car i would choose something else more viable. the cars turn cheap rather quickly with the only exception being the FD, so that is another benefit.
Last edited by Karack; 02-13-2014 at 05:49 PM.
02-13-2014, 05:55 PM
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From Mazda's perspective, they have indeed made that decision. We see the proof of that with the SkyActive car lineup and initiative.
If they do end up producing a rotary, it will be because someone in the company that can make money decisions is still enough of a kid at heart to want to make something just because they want to, and it won't be for any reason that involves economics or regulations. Assuming that the company is making enough money off of the other cars available, even selling it at a loss wouldn't put them under.
Even with CAFE, there isn't really a problem, since Mazda is leading the CAFE pack, no other manufacturer beats them at their CAFE score. They have plenty of flexibility in that metric to produce a rather inefficient car sold in the quantities that the rotary would fetch.
In the end, I don't think anyone will disagree with the fact that there is simply no logical business case for producing a rotary. But all it takes is someone who doesn't care about making a logical business case. Mazda has a history of doing what they want, and to hell with people that say it couldn't or shouldn't be done.
If they do end up producing a rotary, it will be because someone in the company that can make money decisions is still enough of a kid at heart to want to make something just because they want to, and it won't be for any reason that involves economics or regulations. Assuming that the company is making enough money off of the other cars available, even selling it at a loss wouldn't put them under.
Even with CAFE, there isn't really a problem, since Mazda is leading the CAFE pack, no other manufacturer beats them at their CAFE score. They have plenty of flexibility in that metric to produce a rather inefficient car sold in the quantities that the rotary would fetch.
In the end, I don't think anyone will disagree with the fact that there is simply no logical business case for producing a rotary. But all it takes is someone who doesn't care about making a logical business case. Mazda has a history of doing what they want, and to hell with people that say it couldn't or shouldn't be done.
02-13-2014, 06:02 PM
#12
Rotary Evolution
well there was a time when the engine was competetive with piston engines but those days are long gone, which is probably also why mazda chose to cut their losses.
02-13-2014, 06:04 PM
#13
They are clearly still developing it.
02-13-2014, 06:06 PM
#14
Rotary Evolution
i take anything that is in testing with a grain of salt, companies always have projects in the fire that never go anywhere. look at the detroit auto show and how many of those cars from every manufacturer imaginable never see the light of day.
if mazda could overcome the wear characteristics and improve sealing then the engine may live again. the current iteration of the rotary engine is still half a century old.
if mazda could overcome the wear characteristics and improve sealing then the engine may live again. the current iteration of the rotary engine is still half a century old.
02-13-2014, 06:32 PM
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Agreed. Even if it was a "production" engine, it is a 330cc generator and that isn't viable as a main powerplant in a sports car anyway. Maybe a sport bike or a gokart, but nothing bigger. I take it as only that they haven't disbanded the rotary development division, and are still spending money on it. We may get the rotary we want out of it eventually, or we may not. Regardless of what the future holds, it's proof that they haven't tossed in the towel yet. And if they haven't, I won't either.
02-13-2014, 07:24 PM
#16
I think we have two factions at Mazda.
First there are the long time engineering staff and maybe some of the middle management that love the uniqueness of the rotary engine and believe it gives Mazda an identity in the industry. These guys are working on their own time, throwing around ideas on how to make a new rotary engine car work.
Then you have the new president and his bean counters that don't give a rats ***. The short term bottom line is all they care about.
I know many of us hope the first faction can convince the other that they can make it work. I have no idea what is going to happen but, I'm not going to hold my breath. I've said this before, If there is a new RX, it will first be shown at the Tokyo Auto Salon, Chicago or Los Angeles Auto Shows. The new Miata will be introduced at the 2015 Chicago Auto Show.
First there are the long time engineering staff and maybe some of the middle management that love the uniqueness of the rotary engine and believe it gives Mazda an identity in the industry. These guys are working on their own time, throwing around ideas on how to make a new rotary engine car work.
Then you have the new president and his bean counters that don't give a rats ***. The short term bottom line is all they care about.
I know many of us hope the first faction can convince the other that they can make it work. I have no idea what is going to happen but, I'm not going to hold my breath. I've said this before, If there is a new RX, it will first be shown at the Tokyo Auto Salon, Chicago or Los Angeles Auto Shows. The new Miata will be introduced at the 2015 Chicago Auto Show.
Off topic but if there is another RX wouldn't it be a RX9 not a 7?
02-14-2014, 01:44 PM
#18
40th anniversary Edition
Old rumors of a 2017 rotary had it being called a RX7 (not a RX9) , strictly a two seater (with a mandatory small rear seat in Asian markets) built on a stretched next-generation MX5 platform with a NA 300 HP direct-injection skyactive 16X rotary engine with possible laser ignition system and 40% better fuel economy and meeting US/Euro emission standards.
Only happens when the rotary lovers hearts can overrule the bean counters logic. But never count out Mazda to surprise you and never count out the rotary engine. As an RX owner since 1973, I have seen Mazda come back from the dead several times and the rotary has come back with them (oil crisis, emissions crisis, corporate financial crisis, corporate takeovers etc.) .
Never give up the faith in spite of any current pro or against rumors or "official" announcements.
Only happens when the rotary lovers hearts can overrule the bean counters logic. But never count out Mazda to surprise you and never count out the rotary engine. As an RX owner since 1973, I have seen Mazda come back from the dead several times and the rotary has come back with them (oil crisis, emissions crisis, corporate financial crisis, corporate takeovers etc.) .
Never give up the faith in spite of any current pro or against rumors or "official" announcements.
02-14-2014, 04:11 PM
#20
Rotary Evolution
i have never heard of a production RX9 unless the turbo 12A FB somehow got that label, which was just a misleading title given to it through rumor.
the RX6 was the only series passed over.
the RX6 was the only series passed over.
02-14-2014, 04:32 PM
#21
02-15-2014, 10:07 AM
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For what they're worth (RX rumors surfaces again):
* Mazda RX-7 Revival Rumors Resurface Again; Could get a 250HP Rotary Engine - Carscoops
* Mazda RX-7 successor in the works | report | carsguide.com.au
* Mazda RX-7 Revival Rumors Resurface Again; Could get a 250HP Rotary Engine - Carscoops
* Mazda RX-7 successor in the works | report | carsguide.com.au
02-15-2014, 10:57 AM
#24
probably is really like to beat a dead horse....
but i'm seeing a lot of products/projects in sportscar from Japanese carmakers...
-new supra
-new NSX, new basic roadster
-new affordable nissan sportcar
ect...
Mazda can't be remain stopped only with the mx-5 (co-financed by Fiat or FCA)
maybe there is a possibility but only after 2017
but i'm seeing a lot of products/projects in sportscar from Japanese carmakers...-new supra
-new NSX, new basic roadster
-new affordable nissan sportcar
ect...
Mazda can't be remain stopped only with the mx-5 (co-financed by Fiat or FCA)
maybe there is a possibility but only after 2017
02-15-2014, 12:05 PM
#25
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My point was just simply if they make a completely redesigned RX shouldn't it be a RX9 not a 7 as there is a 8. Even if they use a MX frame all the rotaries have been RXs have they not?
