ArvinC

...along the likes of Porsche (959, Carrera GT), Ferrari (GTO, F40, F50 and Enzo), etc? Mazda's Japaneese competitors have produced road-going versions of their LeMans Prototype racers, most recently with Toyota's GT-One and Nissan's R-390. I cannot recall if Mazda ever followed suit in making a street-version of the 787B.

I just think it's about time for Mazda to showcase as much developement and know-how about the rotary engine into a super-car concept. The icing on the cake would be if they took it racing!! :D

Arvin

Senseny

Arvin, the 787 was never produced for the street. I would argue that the third gen Rx7 was relatively close to a supercar during its production run. It was the fastest production car ever imported to the US (I am not sure if it was the fastest produced)by a Japanese company at that point and its performance and looks matched or exceeded many exotics from Europe that cost 3 to 4 times as much. The FD, NSX and Supra (last model) are often referred to as the Japanese supercars of the 90's. I guess it all depends on perspective and obviously I am a little biased. Of course they are not (nor have ever been) as hard to get a hold of as 959s, 962s or other cars of that ilk.

rx-cars_rock

No mazda has not made a supercar. They are more concerned with giving people lots of performance for their dollar.

mysql101

Supercar status seems to mean "costing more than normal people can afford", rather than performance. It just so happens that for a buttload of money, you tend to get a faster car..

ArvinC

...as a car whose engineering and performance are clearly a cut-above what other cars currently offer. I know, I know...it is a vague definition at best, but there are clear examples of it in today's marketplace. Cars like the Enzo (perhaps the closest anyone has ever gotten to making an F1 car for the street), the Carrera GT (its engine and tranny were the basis for Porsche's successor to the vaunted 962 LMP racer) and the Saleen S7 (America's first production carbon monocoque with arguably the most developed and evolved push-rod engine ever).

I, too, thought the NSX, Supra and, especially, the FD-series RX-7's were AWESOME when they came out (still are!). But, they couldn't match the engineering levels of cars like Jaguar's XJ-220, Ferrari's F-40 or Lambo's Diablo VT at that time.

I just find it peculiar that Mazda hasn't come out with a technological marvel that stands on the top steps of the automotive engineering/performance stage. I mean Mazda literally will build ANYTHING: Wankle engines, Miller-Cycle engines, rotary cars, rotary pick-ups, a hydrogen-fueled rotary, a LeMans winning prototype, etc. They clearly have one of the best, certainly one of the most innovative, engineering departments of any car maker. That they haven't wrapped all of this technology and know-how into an costs-be-damned showcase of a car is surprising to me.

Imagine a carbonfibered, 4-rotor, forced induction beast with Mazda's usual weight-is-the-enemy mantra. The engineering in it alone would make it truly unique in the world of the exotics.

Arvin

mzrx

R&D cost money and building a supercar isn't cheap. Mazda will build it if they know for a fact that there are buyers for it and I mean a lot of buyers.

Gigolo Jason

Yes, Mazda produced the 93-95 FD RX-7. This was a twin turbo charged car that would compete with the worlds best on any performance level.

The FD is a supercar.

snap-on

I often wonder why Mz never exported this car.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/revie...ry.asp?ID=4751


20B and turbocharged.

RCCAZ 1

The FD is the closest thing Mazda has produced yet for general consumption. I would argue the fact that mastering the rotary engine in and of itself qualifies Mazda rotaries for Supercar status.

If ArvinC's criteria is valid:

"...as a car whose engineering and performance are clearly a cut-above what other cars currently offer. I know, I know...it is a vague definition at best, but there are clear examples of it in today's marketplace."

How many other manufacturers have had past rotary programs that they decided to abandon. At least two if not three that I can think of. "Engineering and performance that are clearly a cut above what other cars currently offer" has always summarized Mazda's approach to designing and packing rotary-powered cars. They are as unique as they come!!

Gigolo Jason

Your pushing it here. The eight is not a super car and neither is the first gen or second gen sevens.

ChuckRX8

I think Mazda is working on building up their image to where a "supercar" of any sort will be taken seriously. Everyone knows it's gotta be a rotary-based-beast and only recently have their rotary engines gotten all (most?) of the tweaks worked out; the FD's had a lot of problems and Mazda was replacing engines right and left (i.e. blow apex seals, etc.).
It's just a matter of time.

RCCAZ 1

I think one of the best current examples of an affordable supercar is the Evolution VIII or maybe even (gasp) the turbocharged Neon SVRT (not sure if that model is right). Anyway, my point is the fact that these cars deliver an incredible amount of performance for the dollar.

If price dictates supercar or EXOTIC status such as that found in the ENZO, Lamborghini, Carrera GT, etc., than thankfully (for us) Mazda may never qualify. How many current Gen 3 owners could have afforded the Gen 3 when it first came out in 1993 with a sticker price of around $37K. In today's dollars and FD would be close to $60K and again out of reach for most "rotary" enthusiasts. I just hope that when Mazda DOES come out with the next Gen RX-7 that it will be SOMEWHAT affordable.

ArvinC

I couldn't agree with you more on keeping cars affordable. But, for me, what I really meant by Mazda introducing an "exotic super-car" is as a no-holds-barred showcase for their engineering and racing know-how. It's may not even be for public consumption or sale, but just to have an example of what Mazda could do with no constraints as to price, legality, etc. would be great to see.

Oh yeah...and if they do build anything like that, let's hope they go racing with it! LeMans, Daytona and Sebring anyone? :D

Arvin

Rotarian_SC

I really think the only affordable supercar today is the Elise, 40k for a great handling car and a 1/4mi of 12.6!!! For a little perspecitve the Lambo Gallardo 1/4mi is 12.4 and the Porsche 911 GT3 is 12.2.

RCCAZ 1

Wow Rotarian_SC,

You're totally right. The Elise had slipped my mind, and at 40K it is truly a bargain-priced exotic. Jee... as fast as a Z06 with only about 1/4 the horsepower. Wouldn't you think that Detroit would learn something from this package??

Should run circles around the Corvette with a good driver. Wonder how long it will take before the SCCA rules committee (i.e., Corvette owners) start making rules to penalize the Elise. It should DOMINATE the stock class on the track and in autocross. Can't wait to see!!

ArvinC

We have a dealership/importer here in Baltimore that had a British-version (RHD, non-certifiable for US) in their showroom a few months back. Have no idea why they had it...was looking at a 2000 Boxster there before buying my 8. While I thought the design was a bit busy, it has a purposeful look to it and really looks like a formula-type car with proper bumpers and fenders attatched to it.

Is it true that it uses a Toyota or GM-sourced engine?

Arvin

Rotarian_SC

It is a bit different than the European version, 14% heavier but 60% more powerful because of the Toytoa GTS engine that's in it. Lotus completely redid the ECU though, so it is much more responsive and produces more power. Uses the Celica MT but uses Lotus intake and exhaust.

I also think I remember saying that it doesn't have bumpers on it :p (sorry Canadians)

Mike Ockstynee

yes in 1992 when the FD was released in America it clearly was a supercar. Show me any car of modern day that gets reviews like the FD did.

"With the exceptions of top speed, speed at the end of the quarter mile, and 0-30 and 0-40 mph times, our RX-7 R1 beat the Acura NSX in every objective performance test--and costs about half as much. [...] The RX-7 explodes out of corners. [...] The RX-7's boost builds so rapidly it's easy to find yourself in tire-spinning power oversteer. [...] The new RX-7 is just gawdawful fast. It won the important acceleration contest with a 5.2 second 0-60 mph time, turned in a monumental 0.98g on the skidpad, and blew everything else away in lapping around Willow Springs Raceway. Especially in its R1 package, which we had, this is about the raciest feeling thing you can buy and still screw on a license plate. On the race track, it had ferocious cornering power, but seemed to get the biggest edge with enormous jump off the corners." - Motor Trend 4/92


"The RX-7 can do almost anything the best sports cars can do, but better--it accelerates quicker, stops shorter, corners harder, and is faster around a racetrack than almost anything this side of $50,000, and a whole lot of things on the far side of that. As one tester put it, "It sticks to the road like tar on a rocker panel." - Motor Trend 8/92


"The new RX-7 R1 blitzed the Bang portion of Bang for the Buck III. [...] The RX-7's performance was like having an MIT grad student, as a prank, enroll in Calculus I at a junior college. For instance, in lateral acceleration, its advantage over second place equaled second place's advantage over 15th place. [...] Our editors' notes sound like a movie ad: "Spectacular... the best... fabulous in all areas", said one editor before coming down from an adrenaline high. "By far the best track car here, maybe of all time", said another. [...] The RX-7 didn't just win the numbers game, it humiliated the field [...] Its stats read like a sports car's wish list [...] It was also rated first in Fun Factor, with an almost perfect 99.57 score" - Motor Trend 9/92


"The only cars that get around Sears Point International Raceway hill loop much faster have numbers on their doors. [...] The RX-7 may be a performance high-water mark for years to come. [...] The RX-7's performance is awe-inspiring: It's within 1 foot of being the shortest-stopping street car we've ever tested; [...] and grips the road harder than the best race cars of only a few years ago. [...] This is the best hardcore sports car in its price range, maybe in any price range. [...] The RX-7 redefines road manners for its class; the handling feels nimble and natural [...] No sports car in its price range delivers the same level of sensory gratification for the enthusiast driver." - Motor Trend 2/93 naming the Mazda RX-7 1993 Import Car of the Year

Gigolo Jason

Well said mike.

mikeb

what happened to your avatar^^^

Gigolo Jason

Too many people were "offended" by it so the PC patrol asked me to remove it or face banishment.

mikeb

oh I see
that sucks

Gigolo Jason

Tell me about it, its all BS.

This is a car forum, not a venue for the politically correct and easily offended. If anyone out there thinks that car forums are “family” entertainment then they are extremely mistaken. If you want a G rating then go to Disney, and send the mythical 10 year olds who supposedly read this venue along with.

Politically Correct Mods and members = PC Patrol.

Rotary Nut

I think the RX-8 is a super car does that count.

mikeb

I have been to other forums and seen way more offensive avatars but whatever

I like your new one.