Steiner

Off the showroom floor, how does the RX-8 stack up to the Mitsubishi Evolution in terms of handling? I'm aware that the Evo has a little more power but, assuming equally skilled drivers, which car has the edge in the twisties?

sjt

Depends...equally skilled as in GOOD or equally CRAPPY!?!?! haha!

Driving my brothers Evo, I'd say the Evo is HARDER to drive to it's full potential. It's limits seem higher than the RX-8.

The RX-8 is easy to drive. Very balanced, nimble/agile.

The Evo is like a sledgehammer, you pound the road into submission. The RX-8 slices & dices instead.

Seems like Evo has more grip though & AWD feels more natural to me cuz the RX-8 is my first RWD car while I've owned AWD before.

But that's just me.

Maolin34

If we go with the specs, the Evo and the 8 both pull .88/.89 g on the skidpad. But that is about where it ends. Driving a 300hp AWD vs a 240 RWD car are like night and day. The EVO is all about grip...it has the engine for power on attitude adjustments, where the 8 doesn't. So, it really all comes down to the application.

I think the 8 with it's balance and light weight will make it more agile than the EVO. The EVO is all about control at the ragged edge. The 8 is more precision.

Good call SJT!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I would like to offer this description;

To sports-car purists, the RX-8 is the way to go because, as stated above, the RX-8 slices and dices the corners. This is to say that the RX-8 exhibits more grace and calm in the corners than the Evo.

On the other hand, the Evo8 may be perfect for those who are less "refined" in their attitudes and approaches in corners and it may allow for more use of muscle to get through the curves. Remember, the Evo engineers had a wider variety of conditions and surfaces in mind when they designed the drivetrain.

On the street it is a toss-up as the limits of either machine are rarely met during even the most competitive of the stoplight/rallying events. As an example, my friend has a modded Evo that runs 12.7 in the 1/4 mile. My RX-8, at that time, ran 13.3's with nitrous. We "compared" our vehicles from a 20 mph roll and he discovered the shortcoming of the AWD system. Once a level/speed is reached where both vehicles get traction the AWD hardware becomes a crutch rather than a benefit and he was surprised to see the RX-8 is actually quicker than most people think.

Charles

Ike

The steering on the Evo is a dream for a track driver. If I'm doing a track day I'll chose an Evo every time, and that has nothing to do with "finesse" and everything to do with chosing the better handling car. In a stock RX-8 the body roll would bug me and the Evo would still be a rocket down the straights compared to an RX-8. Plus a well setup AWD car in twisties is so confidence inspiring, it's something that has to be experienced to really understand. Also the RX-8 has more finesse simply because it's slower and has softer suspension, it's not like the RX-8 has some mystical thing about it that makes it more "graceful" on a track.



Charles, how is AWD a crutch, sure it has more drivetrain loss but in an Evo or WRX it isn't all that tough to get well over 300whp and you'll have the power all the time rather than relying on a bottle. Put the same WHP in an RX-8 as an Evo or WRX and it doesn't seem like much of a crutch to me, because while you're struggling to make traction I'll be rocketing off and you won't catch up. Lastly, why are you talking about drag straightline racing in a thread about which car handles better? Plus he did say off the showroom floor so unless the Evo driver accidently puts it in reverse the Evo again wins.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Ike, why do you switch from asking about drivetrain losses to discussing the engine in the same question? Drivetrain loss-well over 300 h.p. and power all the time-relying on a bottle. You seem to be switching subjects. Again, I said when speeds are reached where traction is no longer an issue for either car the AWD becomes less of an advantage. I didn't specify what type of racing. Now if you want to make the argument that AWD also allows for better handling, then I would point out that purists would argue that RWD is the choice for the true sports car. I don't necessarily agree with the purists' point-of-view but I am pretty sure that the elitist view is that Western driving habits would be more suited for the AWD platform as opposed to the European driving techniques which favor less-aggressive approaches.

Like most other things in the world these choices are strictly a matter of preference. That's how diversity survives. If AWD were the clear superior the question would have been moot in the first place as all cars would now have AWD systems. I would also be willing to bet, Ike, that both the RX-8 and the WRX are vehicles which far outpace either of our driving talents so neither of us made the improper choice. Thanks for challenging my thoughts as you do. We keep each other honest by doing so.

Charles

Kain

Well I finally decided what I want for christmas, and TRUST ME! it is NOT an EVO!

I think I am gonna have to get a bigger stocking to fit this gift!

jsh1120

Excellent point. Threads such as these remind me of similar debates among riders of "litre class" (1000 cc) sport bikes. "Which is a faster/quicker/better handling bike, a Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Suzuki?" In fact, the power and handling of each of these bikes so far exceed the abilities of 99+% of riders that the likelihood anyone other than a professional rider in a competitive environment can even tap the advantages of such bikes is virtually nil.

As long as I'm hijacking this thread, I might as well note the amusing character of various comments about the 1/4 mile performance of one versus another "performance car."

If one is truly interested in the rush of drag racing with stock vehicles, none of these cars is even competitive with motorcycles that can be purchased off the floor of a local motorcycle dealer for 1/4 or 1/3 the price. Thirteen and 14 second times are not even in the running. The quickest litre class bikes hover around 10 second times. Even relatively slow current bikes routinely break 12 seconds.

If one has to turn, the "race" is closer, but in general, it appears that it takes a Porsche Carrera 4X4 to compete with a Yamaha R1 around a track and even there the times are basically identical.

It's only in major league rallies that cars (barely) top bikes. If I remember correctly, last year's fastest car (a Mitsu) in the Paris/Dakar completed the circuit in slightly over 53 hours. The fastest bike, a KTM, finished in 55+ hours. Personally, I find the latter a far more remarkable feat.

Yes, I know. These are apple/orange comparisons. The basic point is that if one is interested in acceleration per dollar, cars are not even in the running. Of course, bikes don't have airbags.

Equis

The EVo would handle better so would the WrX, those are rally inspired cars. THe RX-8 is an RX-8 buy it because you like it not because you need to race it. If that is the case buy an Evo or WRX and strip it down to a track car and use the AWD. Buy the RX-8 if you just like it.

downshift

Paraphrasing Jeremy's comment in Top Gear:
And of course, nobody heard of someone falling out of a car either :p

crimson-rain

Hey what's up folks ... new in these parts. MY first post so get me cookies please.

Anyway, I've test driven the RX-8 TO a Mitsubishi dealership to drive the EVO 8. Both of these cars are VERY different. The RX-8 has a somewhat "peaceful" manner. It drives as if it has mastered the art of Tai Chi or something. It's graceful and sports finesse and agility. I can tell that racing this thing (and no, the RX-8 is for dang sure not a drag car) would be a game of chess; easy to learn but difficult to master.

The EVO 8 on the other hand is like an all out race war chariot. It's fast. It's powerful. And it WILL beat you up if you don't DRIVE that SOB. Trust me, I drove the crap out of it AND myself (the guy that let me test drive the thing told me to 'let it go'. Needless to say I almost inadvertedly bought an EVO 8). It's as if the car is saying at first rev, "Dirt, sand, pavement, rain, sleet, snow, SRT-4, 350Z, STI, damn it 'that's my ***' Skyline BRING IT!!!!".

After both drives, and I "DROVE" both, I came to a revelation. What's YOUR driving style? What is YOUR situation (drag, drift, track, touge, etc.)? Do you want to "HANDLE YOUR SITUATION" or "OVERPOWER IT"?

The drivers can be of the same level of skill, but the styles of the drivers would be totally different. Driving AWD is way different then driving FR. how's that for a quick left off thoughts lane

Sorry, about the weird comments, but that's how I feel about it. Anyway, I'm working getting an RX-8. I like the FR layout and the graceful agility of the car.

Anyone have a coupon for an RX-8?????

Rxdriftingaction

hmm... seems to me .. it's a totaly different car..!! one is FR one is 4WD.!!!1 it required different driving skill..!!! so.. how's that = ?! but I think evo is faster than 8 in corner.

shaolin

There are so many fallacies in this statement it's not even funny.

crimson-rain

Oh I definitely agree, the EVO is faster in the turns. But how much faster is it really through the hairpins, key holes, and s-turns? I would love to see a time attack between the EVO and the 8 involving high demanding turns and twisties.

As far as driver skill sets, the AWD driver has the advantages/disadvantages of AWD and the FR driver has the advantages/disadvantages of FR. Without getting technical it seems pretty simple to me. If you were an expert with a katana sword, would you go into a battle with a braveheart broad sword? Both are swords and both are deadly but you can make for damn sure you won't be using the same techniques with each in battle.

Yeah I know. They're cars not swords. But the principle still holds. At least that's how I see it.

Oh yeah, did I mention that the EVO is fast? :D

Kart Racer

i think most people agree that the EVO should spank the 8....but i always point out that the Evo is a fully tuned car from mitsu....remember that the 8 is still civilized and more appropriate for cruising. if further work was done to the 8, i do think it will "out handle the Evo" but not neccesarily beat it, due to the Evo's hp advantage...... If you look at "august i think" Automobile mag, they compared a bunch of cars on the track, the Evo was 2 sec. quicker then the S2000, so safe to say, its around 2 Sec quicker then the 8. Thats pretty close when factoring the lower hp, and civilized spring rates of the RX-8.

Also another point about the motorcycles....you forgot one of the most interesting facts, last year at Jerez a Moto GP bike had a faster trap speed then the F1 cars, thats pretty crazy if you ask me......

PoorCollegeKid

You could look up autocross results if you wanted to see how the cars compare in short, twisty environments. The Evo is in A-Stock while the RX8 is in B-Stock (IIRC) so they won't be directly competing against each other, but you can still look at their raw times and see how they match up. Just a thought

Icemastr

Ford Taurus owns em' both anyways.

Aoshi Shinomori

^^^^^
He's right :p

Ike

Actually no, but you just made one :p The Evo would outhandle it, the WRX stock for stock would not.

Ike

Would you care to explain to me why AWD is banned in most forms of professional racing then? A well setup AWD car is superior to a RWD car on a track, and the governing bodies of these racing leagues know it. Guess what, it started with a European car made by Audi so I don't think your "European driving techniques" approach holds much water. Also tell that the millions of rally fans throughout Europe that that AWD is more suited for western driving habits, every single one of those cars is AWD and contrary to popular belief they have plenty of tarmac races.

Ike

2 seconds difference for a lap is HUGE. Every single time the cars have been put on a track in a publication or television show the Evo always outlaps the RX-8 by a pretty good margin. I disagree with you about the Evo being a fully tuned car from the factory, it has gobs and gobs more potential and I think it would take a lot of work done to the RX-8 for it to keep up save for maybe on an autox course. But comparing a stock car to a modded car can get silly so I'll just leave it at that. However I do agree with you about the RX-8 being better for cruising, but that's not what this is about.

czr

iTrader: (3)

AWD is heavier, eats more gas, more parts> more expensive and is thus not practical for every application but are usually better handling cars.

Steiner

Thanks for all the replies guys. I appreciate those who kept the discussion limited to stock vs stock. It sounds like the Evo and RX-8, although both purpose-built cars, achieve that end through much different means.

I'm trading in my car next month for an '05 Evo RS and was trying to gauge what kind of handling prowess I could look forward to. I'm somewhat familair with the handling capabities of the RX-8, having driven one a few times.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

just remember an RS is a bare bones basically track car...no AC no power anything no radio even (at least in the last article i read about it).

rlfletch

Having driven both on the track I think I can comment: The Mitsu is good and stiff with a very neutral balance. I found it very easy to drive. It does, however have a bit of a dissasociated feel to it, kind if like driving a video game. Its easy to understand as the factory has taken an inexpensive, economy engineered car and put track level bits on it to make it go fast. It's good fun around the track but isn't very sophisticated. The Rx8 is great as a track car AND a daily driver. A little more body roll (Cured with mazdaspeed bars by the way) but with very telegraphic steering and feel from the suspension. It is a much more involving car as more care is needed in corner exit than the Mitsu. More fun some would say with the oversteer too. This too is easy to understand as the Mazda has been engineered from the ground up as a more limited production, expensive sports car. Take a look under the fenders at those A-arms, works of art. I would be happy with either at the track but prefer the Mazda for the 99% of the time I'm not driving at 9/10th's.