FamilyGuy

Hey guys...

I hear a lot of stuff about turbos and superchargers on this thread. I'm familiar with the concepts involved and the basic ideas on how my work.

What I can't seem to get a handle on is how to find out which vendors have what available, and what kind of performance boosts they offer. I would think there would be several mega-sites that list all sorts of stuff on this, but I haven't found any.

What am I missing? Can you provide links to any places that would have lots of info?


I can't afford a new car. But once my current car, a 2001 Impala with the 3.4L OHV V6, is paid off, I wouldn't mind adding a few pounds of boost for an extra kick in the seat in the pants. I wouldn't want to do anything crazy, and even if I did wreck the thing at least then I wouldn't have any payments to make on a dead car. I've done web searches, and I can't find anything.

Thanks
Mike

wakeech

www.overboost.com is a pretty ricey place to go shopping, but it's all there with lots of info...

uh, you could go straight to the manufacturer's website (of the product you're thinking of), or a tuning garage which specializes in the GM 3.5 V6... Turbonetics used to have a great great website (i mean, ugly, but you could DL all the compressor maps, just one click)... last i checked their new one's still mostly under construction...

hmm... i just don't know about kits for a 3.5 V6... supercharger is probably the least trouble, and it's more American in flavour, so you might find considerably more options down that route...

Vaillant

From what I hear, the Impala is going to be getting a SC in the very near future. I think it's the same drivetrain that's in the Buick. So, depending if the engine that they put the SC on is the same, you may be able to use GM parts.

Now where did I hear this from....hmmm....I'm trying to remember. Probably one of the auto magazines (I get C&D, R&T, Automobile and Autoweek) but I can't remember which one.

Remember also that with a front drive car, when you start to add more power you may have issues with torque steer.

- Matt

FamilyGuy

Thanks for the replies.

As far as I know, the supercharger GM will use in the Impala SS is the same is uses in the Bonneville GXP - an Eaton supercharger. The Eaton website says they only sell to OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers), so unless I want to buy a batch of fifty or something they might not sell directly to a customer.

I'm not too worried about torque steer. If I absolutely floor it from a stop, it pulls off to the side, but other than that it's fine. The 3.4 only has peak 180 horsepower and 205 torque. I figure if they plan on selling an Impala with FWD and 3.8 liter supercharged engine with peak horsepower 245 and torque 280 the torque steer must still be manageable at that point. I doubt I would be able to safely increase my output anywhere near those numbers , so it shouldn't be a problem.

What I would really like to do is up my drive ratio from the standard 2.7 to a 3.2 or even 3.5 and then replace the 4 speed automatic transmission with a 5 speed automatic. That should give a hefty performance boost without too much loss in gas mileage, but I imagine that a custom transmission would cost a hell of a lot more than a low end supercharger.

Vaillant

Well, what I'm thinking is that if the head is the same on the 3.4 and the 3.8, then you can wait until someone smooshes their car and go pick up the SC from a junkyard.

That may be a real cheap way to do it.

Changing the tranny will mess up your speedo and your gas mileage and might cost quite a bit.

wakeech

...or better, the whole engine.

FamilyGuy

I like that idea... still, an engine swap isn't cheap, even if I can get the new engine for free.

97gpGT

The 3.4L is a 60° V6, while the 3.8L is a 90° V6, and the bores on these engines are also different (3.62" for the 3.4L, 3.80" for the 3.8L) which means the heads are most probably not the same. The S/C might still bolt on, but a bit of customization would be in order for it to work correctly.

FamilyGuy- You'd be better off finding an L67, 4T65E, and final ratio (The last two extras because your stock tranny/differential is geared a bit shorter than the 4T65E is, equating to worse gas mileage, which seems to be a factor in your decision. It's only good up to ~325 lbft of torque, which is a bit too close to the 280lbft the engine would be putting out stock, let alone modded, for comfort IMO) from a wrecked GTP/Buick/SSEi or buying a whole new motor and dropping it in to your car if it fits (hey, they've done it with Fieros, so I think that your car wouldn't have too much trouble with it) than spending all of that money on a custom tranny. You'll get more reliability and performance gains from this set up than by finding a custom 5AT to go with your car. The engine is fairly inexpensive to come by, although I don't have exact numbers, I'm sure a websearch would pull them up. The cost of labor for installing it, however, may be a bit steep, especially if new engine mounts need to be fabricated (again, I'm not sure if this needs to be done as I'm not very familiar with the 3.4L OHV, but since they're putting a 3.8 into the same basic chassis, I'm sure that this can be done without too much trouble).

BTW- The newest Bonneville GXP concept, said to be almost identical to what consumers will see, has dropped the tuned L67 for a 32 valve 4.4L V8 derived from the Northstar. Whatever you decide, good luck with it and keep us posted.

FamilyGuy

97gpGT,

Pardon my ignorance, but what are a L67 and an 4T65E?


These mods I'm thinking of are three years away at the earliest, because that's how long it'll take to pay the thing off. At that point, I could replace it... but I figure that another new $20,000-$25,000 car or used Acura/BMW/Lexus in the same price range is a lot more expensive, a lot more expensive to insure, and a lot less unique than heavily customized Impala.

A lot can happen between now and then, of course. If I get a big promotion, I might be able to do both. If my wife gets pregnant again in the next few years (our first is due in October), I might not be able to afford anything.

A guy can dream though, right? Dreams are what got me interested in the RX-8 in the first place

Sputnik

The 3.4 and 3.8 engines are quite different. Heads won't match, and other parts will need some modifications to fit the other.

Are they really going to put the 3800SC engine into that little Impala, or are they simply going to supercharge the 3.4L engine? If they put that 3800SC engine in the car, it'll be faster in a straight line than the Monte Carlo, or Grand Prix, etc. etc., which I doubt that they would do. It would handle like a pig, but it would be fast in a straight line.

---jps

FamilyGuy

Sputnik, how would the Impala be faster than the Monte Carlo? I thought the Monte Carlo was just the coupe version of it?

As for handling like a pig - I can't dispute that. How much of that could be fixed by a better suspension? I mean, obviously nothing can be done about the FWD and 59/41 weight distribution, but would a stiffer suspension make a difference?

Sputnik

First of all, the last time I checked, the Monte Carlo wasn't available with the 3800SC engine, just the normally aspirated 200hp 3800II engine.

Second, unless I have my GM models mixed up again, the Impala and Monte Carlo are built on different chassis. The Monte Carlo is a "W" body, as is the Grand Prix, and the Buick... umm, I think it's the Regal. The Impala is a little smaller and lighter.

As for the suspension, that might be tough. Anything is possible, of course, but "anything" encompasses things like re-engineering the suspension. First, remember that stiffer is not always better. The car needs to be able to roll for grip on street tires, and it needs to be able to soak up uneven surfaces. Too stiff, and the tire won't keep a good contact patch on the road. Mind you, with GM cars, stiffer is the right place to start. You have to upgrade your shocks with your springs, otherwise things will get worse. The thing that most FWD sedans needs is a stiffer rear sway bar. Both front and rear probably need to be stiffened, but the rear more, that's where you'll get alot of your balance back. Then light, strong wheels and good tires.

Then there are things like strut tower braces. Make sure that they are effective, because there are alot of "pretty" ones out there that aren't really effective.

Possibly look into installing "body foam". This is a two-part foam that is injected into the rails and hollow frame items to stiffen the chassis with a minimum of weight. You need to get the right foam, and even then, some people doubt it's effectiveness. That's why I said look into it.

You can get a better handling car, but you might be giving up a bit of ride. A few years back, a friend put together a suspension on a Grand Prix (he was the guy who put the Koni Taurus SHO shocks in before the aftermarket company picked up on it). He got it pretty well balanced and able to handle on road courses, but it was a kidney bouncer.

---jps

FamilyGuy

The way I understand it, the current Monte Carlo SS has the naturally aspirated 3800 series engine, just like the Impala LS. However, once they offer the Impala SS with the supercharged 3800 (I think it's for the 2004 model year), they will also make the supercharger a standard part of the Monte Carlo SS package.

I never researched which chassis type either car used. I assumed they were the same because the cars look very similar aside from the obvious 2-door/4-door difference.

97.5% of my knowledge of cars is book knowledge gleaned from forums like this, howstuffworks.com, discussions with my in-laws (who are all muscle car fanatics), and little bits here and there. I haven't learned a damn thing about suspensions, yet, so it's something I would have to look into first.


I'm surprised that Chevy's 3800 series engine is a 90 degree V-6 while the 3400 is a 60 degree. I would think it would be cheaper to manufacture them at the same plant if they had a lot of common parts, and from what I understand the 60 degree configuration is more balanced anyway.

97gpGT

Sorry about that, I kinda got carried away and forgot that you probably wouldn't be familiar with the codes like that. The L67 is the 3.8L S/C engine (your current 3.4 is the LA1, IIRC), and the 4T65E is the tranny that they mate up with it in FWD cars. It's nice to hear that you're researching things like this first before you go out and do them, you can never know too much before you start.

The 3.8L S/C they're putting in the Impala, btw, is only the 240hp version of it, last I checked. The new Grand Prix GTP is getting a 260hp L67, which may keep them close as far as speed goes, and the Impala SS will hopefully handle at least as well as the GTP Comp-G does, seeing as how it's a bit lighter. The Impala is a W-body, btw, just like the GP, Regal, and Monte Carlo, so the weight differences are not that drastic, if there's even a difference after the heavier L67 is put under the hood. We'll just have to wait and see...

Sputnik

I stand corrected.

---jps

MikeW

Your 3.4 has the 2.86 axle ratio
Find a smashed up Monte Carlo SS, it has a 3.29 axle ratio.

Swap and enjoy.

mental pimp

stupid website i search a turbo for 2002 protege and they give me a turbo for a stupid honda engine

Farsyde

hey mental, goto http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/for...?s=&forumid=69

Also some companies that make kits for the protege are:

HiBoost
flyin protege (BEGI)
Spool