rotarygod

I love this car for the concept. This is the future right here and it's the way I've always said cars should be built. Almost. By the time a 2nd generation car comes out, they'll have all the important issues worked out and improved. This is the car that will change the world. I'm shocked it's coming from the US and not Japan though. Aside from all of it's advantages over current cars, and the fact that all cars will be this way in 25 years, I have stumbled across the most ridiculous item of the day and it deals with the Volt. Apparently Chevy announced that the original gas tank, which was supposed to take it over 600 miles per fill up, assuming of course the generator was running full time which it won't be, they are now instead going to use a smaller tank which will "only" allow the car to go 350 miles or so in generator mode.

That's not the bad part. It's the comments and response from idiots who don't like the car. People are all up in arms over it. People are crying foul because it could potentially only go the distance of the average current car on a tank of gas with the generator running full time. Keep in mind that for many people, the gas engine will rarely be used and for some almost never. That means far more than 360 miles on a tank. It's potentially unlimited. Why on Earth would someone want to carry around extra fuel and weight when they don't need it? We're going to see someone who never gets out of electric mode, who let their gas go stale in the tank. Then the engine is going to start up and all kinds of problems will happen. Do you really need a larger tank with more fuel in it?

The only time the tank size is going to be an issue is when you drive long distances. The longer you are on the road at any one time, the more the generator needs to run. Suddenly you are going to have to fill up your tank near Oklahoma City on your drive from Houston rather than in Kansas City on your cross country trip. God forbid! I'll bet most of you would be climbing the walls to hit 360 miles on a tank. On top of that it would be half of what your current tanks can hold! I don't see the issue. True I can hit 425 miles on a tank in a Civic but that's 12 gallons and not 8. I wouldn't cry at 360.

Someone against the small tank even stated that it's a ploy by big oil companies to make you fill up more! What???!!! What kind of logic is that? What does that matter? You'll need the same amount no matter how much the tank holds. It only affects how often you put it in the tank. Check out some of the responses. It's funny and sad at the same time. There are defenders who get it though.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/08/g...iles/#comments

dillsrotary

That is why I truly hate people sometimes

alfy28

i dont understand those ppl. i am not sure if i read this correct, but the car will run on electric for 40 miles before using gas. so why would they even be pissed off by that. some ppl j ust want to complain for nothing it seems.

CyberPitz

Most of those people are just embarrassments. Seriously, you're complaining about something that isn't even in existence yet. Get a clue, then return.

I think the Volt is pretty damned awesome, so far. 350-400 miles to an 8 gallon tank? HOLY CRAP! That's awesome.

Red Devil

They were telling everyone at the Detroit Autoshow this past January to expect upwards of 600 miles per full tank of gas.

I think it's a fantastic car and technology and about time.

rotarygod

That's why people are mad. Now they are going to switch to a smaller gas tank. I don't see the problem. No one complains that current cars have gas tanks that are too small. People need to understand that designs change during development and that one original goal may not be the best for the finished product.

sharkman

i wonder if they ever going to make this car, if so will it be at a reasonable price? cause it seems like when it comes to energy conservation and the such..the technology for it is so expensive that these concep cars are rarely available for the common folk if they even make it to production. that said most of us would never own a nice electric car like that one unles you are loaded with $$$ and still if you're rich why would you buy a vehicle like that if you can afford the fuel. just my rant.

CyberPitz

Unfortunately, I doubt it will be cheaper than 30k for the car. "Save lots of money on gas by paying top dollar for the car!"

I'm not stating facts, just speculation.

robrecht

I hope it looks more like the concept than the mule. BTW, Lutz has already said the price for the Volt will be around $40k for GM to break even. I suppose some may be hoping for a tax break to make it cheaper but I think people should buy their own cars. Taxes are too high already.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

great looking car, great technology, can't wait.

some people internet access just needs to be revoked...

rotarygod

The price for this car may seem excessive at $40K but the point of it isn't to sell alot of them which may sound strange at first until you see the longterm picture. GM even admits they aren't going to make any money in it. At least not right now. The importance of this car is in just getting it to market. You need to prove the technology works and some people don't believe anything unless they see it. Others don't believe it after they see it. The point isn't to outsell the Prius or make money off of it. The goal isn't to get one of these in every garage. The point is to show the world that this is direction that the evolution of cars is going to ultimately go and it's in the form of the electric car with a generator, also known as a series hybrid, serial hybrid, gas/electric (or whatever other fuel/electric). It's a proof of concept.

This car has been getting flak from people who still think the parallel hybrid system is a better option. With low battery technology that may have some merit. The series hybrid will be best suited to lighter, more powerful batteries as that's what it's going to rely on. Even Toyota is criticizing this arrangement as they are not seeing the future. How they lost sight of it I don't know. They think that battery technology will always be expensive. They think that batteries will always be heavy. They think that batteries will always have a very small capacity and hence range to them. They still think the future is in Nickel Metal Hydride batteries.

The truth is that battery technology is about to go through the technological leap that computers did over the past decade. It's about to take off like flat screen TV's did. A few years ago they were novelties that only the extremely wealthy could afford. Now you can't find a tube TV anywhere and prices are even cheaper than old tube TV's. We are currently on the 2nd generation of Lithium battery. Within 5 years we'll be on the 4th generation and in 10 years we'll be at the 8th or 9th generation of battery. We are on the verge of the battery revolution and Toyota doesn't see it. GM does though.

What they'll do with this car is most importantly prove the series system works good. This will convince people since it is now real. More imporantly it'll light a fire on other auto manufacturers to pursue the same route. By the time the 2nd generation of this car comes out, within 10 years, the lone electric motor, front wheel drive setup will be replaced with hub mounted electric motors at each wheel. No more transmission at all! This leaves all kinds of design possibilities open. It also allows you to use full electronic regenerative braking which means no more mechanical brakes except for an emergency brake. Cars will be much simpler with fewer moving parts.

By the time that car comes out, batteries will take us over 100 miles in pure electric mode rather than the mere 40 now that they are claiming if you drive it sensibly. This opens up many other possibilities. Suddenly the generator can become an option. You could buy a pure electric car. You could buy a generator if you needed range extension. GM even realizes that the generator can run on gasoline, ethanol, diesel, hydrogen gas, hydrogen fuel cell, hopes and dreams, etc. They see the whole picture.

Suddenly every car maker will be scrambling to catch up but GM will have a head start and most importantly practical real world experience. In 10 years we will even see Toyota proclaim the series hybrid the superior system and they too along with every other hybrid car maker will phase out the current parallel systems.

I've seen people say that this isn't the right car at the right time. That couldn't be more wrong. This is the right car and it's absolutely at the right time. It's at a time right after technology made it a viable option and it only has room to improve. 10 years ago wouldn't have been the right time although many were sad when GM axed the EV1. Although it was a pure electric car, the intention was always to have a range extender. However the greenies on the west coast protested and said you needed a zero emissions vehicle. Although ugly, it was a good car that served it's purpose. With cheap gas prices and battery technology that isn't what it is now, the timing was wrong. Not anymore!

People criticize GM for even attempting this vehicle saying it's not viable and it's not worth the risk. Toyota and Honda both scrambled to be the first on the market with their hybrids, the Prius and the Insight, or as I like to call them, the Pious and the Hindsight. Keep in mind the current Prius is the 2nd generation and they are about to release a 3rd gen. The first gen didn't sell all that well and the Insight sales were terrible. They proven the concept as that was the only viable hybrid system at the time. The parallel hybrid was a stepping stone waiting for technology to catch up to make the series viable. Now it is. Also remember that those cars came out when the economy was high, gas was low, and at a price premium to nonhybrids which they still have today. That was bad timing and look at what's happening to hybrid sales now!

GM is the only company that really gets it right now. True their stocks have fallen to oblivion. Even if they hit bankruptcy, that doesn't mean that they'll go out of business or won't come out of it. They will. When the Volt hits the market and is proven, we are going to see a huge turnaround at GM. Stocks will ultimately soar and anyone owning it will stand to make lots of money. It's hard to see that now but some of the richest people got that way by taking advantage of seemingly terribly situations. GM knows this will be a homerun concept. What the Volt itself actually does in sales isn't terribly relevant. It doesn't have to match other car sales to be viable. It just has to prove the technology works, that it's the future, and that the future is here. They'll do it too.

You have companies like Mazda who are focusing their future efforts on hydrogen and parallel hybrids. We'll also see a new diesel hit the US from them soon. You have Toyota pushing their parallel hybrids but having no interest in diesel. Just pure gasoline parallel hybrid. This will cost them later. You have BMW working on energy recovery from the exhaust through steam. What's really funny is that it was the series hybrid (diesel electric locomotive) that killed the steam engine on the worlds railroads. Here we are full circle ready to repeat history! Mercedes is trying to make all of their cars "gasoline free" by 2017 which is just a fancy way of saying all of their engines will either be able to run on diesel/biodiesel or pure ethanol. Of course gasoline still works just fine, you just won't NEED to use it if you can find an alternative. They too are working on a parallel hybrid of some form.

Then you have the transmisison wars. We are seeing 7 speed and even 8 speed automatic transmissions. We are seeing manumatic transmissions which are basically clutchless manuals and we are seeing more money dumped into improving the transmission further. The sad thing is that the series hybrid will ultimately be the absolute end to the transmission. Why sink all of your money into transmission development and a certain alternative fuel? I don't know. It's a dead end waste of money.

GM understands and the Volt is proof. Does anyone remember their concept they called the "skateboard"? Take a good look at it because it was a concept car of the future and suddenly we can easily see how the Volt is the last stepping stone to get to it. That concept was debuted 7 years ago. They've always known where technology was headed. When you have no transmission, you have alot of freedom of design. A car gets simple. You can have one basic platform but have different bodies. That's a different model car! One platform would be cheap. If you want a performance model, use larger motors, more powerful batteries, and/or a larger range extender. Remember batteries technology will get better very rapidly very soon. If you need a truck, give it a taller suspension. Cars are going to be very simple.

Our kids, or their kids, etc aren't going to modify their cars by installing intakes, flywheels, exhausts, transmissions, etc. They are going to swap out for more powerful hub motors. They are going to swap out for larger batteries. They are going to change range extenders. You get the idea. This is the first serious change to the way cars have been designed since their invention. When you think about it current cars are really fundamentally the same as the Model T. Sure they are larger, safer, faster, cleaner, etc. They all still use mechanical brakes, internal combustion engines, transmissions, etc. We haven't redesigned the car. We've taken the technology to the extremes and improved every aspect of it. What the Volt will show the world is that there's a better way. Why improve certain parts of a car when you don't need them? Why make a vehicle more complex when it can be simpler? A simpler car is a ligher car. A lighter car is a more efficient car.

I love where this is going and I'm happy that this great automotive revolution is going to happen in my lifetime assuming nothing catastrophic happens to me along the way.

Rant over!

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

+1

i raved about the volt since the first time i read about it in popular mechanics. i even saw a mockup of it at the d.c. auto show earlier this year. that and the aptera typ-1 are on my list of cars to watch.

robrecht

I imagined the series hybrid by thinking about my Dad's WW2 Diesel submarine ... but I left it to GM to work out the details.

But I hope maybe there's still time for one more iteration of a 16x RX-7!

Razz1

I'd hate to see your electric bill. With the tiered rate I bet you'll go bankrupt.

robrecht

A couple of years ago, I replaced my propane furnace and put in a heat pump/AC. My electricity bill went up quite a bit, but my propane bill went down much, much more. OK, so it's not really directly comparable because with a heat pump, I'm not actually burning fuel to create heat from combustion but merely transferring heat from outside to inside. But the bottom line with electric cars is that they are cheaper than expensive gasoline. And there are more ways to create electricity.

brillo

I think cars should be powered off of small obnoxious children

Gambit

if only more people could string thoughts together into ideas like rg

those people bitching on autoblog are probably the same ones who will buy a Mustang GT and rave about how they get 250 miles on a tank

JRichter

I agree RG. I don't think the timing could be more perfect. Products/designs like this are pivotal. Don't expect it to sell well in its first generation and you can bet there will be issues and problems in the beginning but that's the only way things get done. You have to start somewhere. You can guarantee that GM will lose money on everyone it sells initially even at $40k but so did Toyota w/ it's first generation Prius and Honda w/ its Insight. I'm glad a company like GM is taking the steps necessary to make this work and you can bet your *** the other big companies will soon follow. I also think GM will (if not already) get any support it needs from the US government in making this work. The internet critics don't see the big picture or the impact of producing a vehicle like this. When you really think about it, the core concept of a motor vehicle has not changed that much in the last 90 years but I think we'll see some big changes in the next couple of decades and I'm glad I'll be around to see it.

I remember reading about the AUTOnomy concept car w/ its skateboard platform and thinking how much sense it made provided the battery technology would be there eventually. Can't believe that was 7 years ago. Here's a refresher pic:

alienRX8

Well I am sorry but I hate the car, and I hate any other hybrid or electric or anything that does not run on gasoline or diesel. Why? Well because I am a petrolhead. Yes I might be outdated or whatever but a true car enthusiast would never want an electric or hybrid car. Why? Because they suck performance wise, they are not drivers cars. They dont sound like a gasoline engine does they dont feel like one either. I just wish all this speculation that oil is not going to las would go to hell.

One scientist has already proven that oil is a renewable source. It does not come from fossils like the used to think. The earth keeps producing it all the time. I just wish we took our conservative crap off and started drilling in some new places so we could get more oil and get the price down.

just my opinion

alfy28

i think t he type cars you mentioned are not suppose to be a drivers car. these are cars to get you to point A to point B. they are not your clubman cars you take around a track to get the best time. that is what you have your weekend warrior for. but that is just my opinon.

JRichter

I sure as hell wouldn't want a fully electric car anytime soon (I damn sure wouldn't buy a hybrid in its current form) and I think there will be plenty of combustible engines still around for the next several decades so I wouldn't worry too much. The petrol cars wouldn't disappear all at once but there is no reason people shouldn't have different options these days.

rotarygod

I think some still miss the potential. A series hybrid has the potential to walk all over current car performance and do it at a fraction of the fuel usage. Whether of not you like this car's design is irrelevant. All cars will fundamentally use this architecture in the future. The body will be nothing more than a shell. Here's a prime example of the potential you'll see. Keep in mind this has the potential to walk all over any existing car performance wise so that's not an excuse.

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

learycd

iTrader: (1)

great car for the world

not a the car for me. idk why ppl need to complain, just accept its not for everyone

Socket7

Just think of how big a stereo you could run off all those batteries...

Cool idea, but i have to say, i am partial to my Internal combustion engine and manual transmission.

totally the way of the future though.

j_tso

^What he said.

One of Jay Leno's Octane columns read he believes that in the future gasoline powered cars will be recreational vehicles, alt. fuel will be for the masses. Petrol will be more expensive, but won't be used as often. Just like motorboats today, they're more expensive to fill up, but no one drives them everyday.