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He's apparently running for election to be State Treasurer . guess he doesnt want to win, actually.
this is th e most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of ( well almost). if a judge actually lets this get to some kind of trial i will volunteer my time to help punch holes in his arguements. it will be ridiculously easy.
worst part really is that he could end up spending HUGE amounts of money if he is dogged about this with absolutely no chance in hell of EVER seeing any return at all.
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I believe its in England (correct me if I'm wrong fellow Englanders lol) but if you file suit against someone and lose, you have to pay their court and lawyer fee's. Wish we had that law in the US. I'd tell the Automakers to find the most expensive lawyers that charge by the second and hire them. Would put the CA people in a uproar fast.
I just dont understand if CA is so forward with curbing emissions and such, why they dont come up with their own solutions. I dont live in CA so I can't say for sure but why not sponsor their own bussing company that has a variety of stops. Hand out tax breaks to those companies that are actualy developing and producing "engery saving" cars. Hell I know they should start their own auto company and let them develop their own cars and let them see how easy it aparently is do develop and then sell these cars.
Is it wrong I wouldnt mind bitch slapping this AG?
I was imagining a scenario where the automakers retaliate by not selling cars in California.
If the State of CA wasnt so big I wouldnt blame them. If CA was the size of RI you know the automakers would say "Go screw you then..." sure it would put alot out of work but 'eh the backlash from the public would be enough to have the government repeal their descions.
Though would be interesting if the Automakers said "fine.." then just sold baseline v4 models to the public in CA and when any buyer asks "What about the Hemi/LS/SE model..." the dealer will replie "Oh we dont sell those here in CA because of emmission laws these are the only models that pass this states standards.". That would to me create a small backlash dont ya think!?
maybe that idiot should take a look at industry emmisions in the united states and not automobiles.
It is cheaper for a lot of companies to pay the EPA fines for polluting than to actually implement polution controls so that is what they do. How about if you dont comply in X amount of time you get shut down? Oh that wouldnt work out so well because then the EPA wouldnt get those great legal kickbacks they are getting now in the form of "fines"
Who else has heard the phrase "The EPA works Monday - Friday and industry works on the weekends"?
I know it's a stupid thing but this is California we are talking about. That's to be expected. Most of the stupid ideas in this country originate over there. They just leach into the system which is the rest of the country a little later on. It's funny how CARB sets the standards for pollution for car emissions which the manufacturers must meet and then they go back and sue the car makers for meeting them!
But why sue CAR MAKERS...That's like suing GUN makers. If he wants to SUE somebody, sue the millions of car DRIVERS, as the cars themselves don't pollute - the DRIVER's who run the engines pollute.
But why sue CAR MAKERS...That's like suing GUN makers. If he wants to SUE somebody, sue the millions of car DRIVERS, as the cars themselves don't pollute - the DRIVER's who run the engines pollute.
I hope this is perfectly clear how i get this across....
This is a DUMB argument, which i know was your entire intention but it is no dumber than suing the automakers to begin with.
I know it's a stupid thing but this is California we are talking about. That's to be expected. Most of the stupid ideas in this country originate over there. They just leach into the system which is the rest of the country a little later on. It's funny how CARB sets the standards for pollution for car emissions which the manufacturers must meet and then they go back and sue the car makers for meeting them!
This is how I think about it as well. California emissions standards (which are laws) have had the auto manufacturers bending over backward for years. Not to mention the oil refineries. Everyone has met their legal obligations to sell cars in California. It sounds like to me Cali's standard were wrong.
I live in Cali and it is things like this that make me consider leaving this state. I am absolutely outraged as a tax payer by this and many other issues. Damn tree-hugging-fern-fondling-bastards!!!
I assure you this guy will never get my vote. I am tired of Cali laws pandering to the green extreme and killing the business climate of this state.
Heck, Cali can't even get 93 octane because of enviro regs. Drives the STi guys NUTS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavius
Though would be interesting if the Automakers said "fine.." then just sold baseline v4 models to the public in CA and when any buyer asks "What about the Hemi/LS/SE model..." the dealer will replie "Oh we dont sell those here in CA because of emmission laws these are the only models that pass this states standards.". That would to me create a small backlash dont ya think!?
this is th e most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of ( well almost). if a judge actually lets this get to some kind of trial i will volunteer my time to help punch holes in his arguements. it will be ridiculously easy.
What you mean like:
"EXHIBIT A: Brand new 2006 Dodge Viper with gas tank empty hooked up to emissions sniffer- note zero emissions
EXHIBIT B: Stupid Californian attorney general pouring one gallon gas can into said Viper and turning the key- emissions sniffer explodes
Suing Toyota for making cars that pollute the enviroment is like suing Smith and Wesson for making guns that kill people. They don't pollute the enviroment until a Californian citizen puts gas in it and drives it. So who should be on trial, the manufacturers or the owners?"
All the forums I've been reading that have brought this subject up keep predicting that it will be settled in monetary value outside the courtroom. That actually baffles me, because I don't think any pasty-faced attourney right out of law school would have any problem getting this case laughed right out of the courtroom.
"EXHIBIT A: Brand new 2006 Dodge Viper with gas tank empty hooked up to emissions sniffer- note zero emissions
EXHIBIT B: Stupid Californian attorney general pouring one gallon gas can into said Viper and turning the key- emissions sniffer explodes
Suing Toyota for making cars that pollute the enviroment is like suing Smith and Wesson for making guns that kill people. They don't pollute the enviroment until a Californian citizen puts gas in it and drives it. So who should be on trial, the manufacturers or the owners?"
All the forums I've been reading that have brought this subject up keep predicting that it will be settled in monetary value outside the courtroom. That actually baffles me, because I don't think any pasty-faced attourney right out of law school would have any problem getting this case laughed right out of the courtroom.
Yes but auto makers dont want to take the chance of going to court and by some joke of a legal system....losing. Not to mention all the bad press that the whole thing causes. They usually just want it to go away. Its lame but thats the way it is.
Location: In the hills between San Miguel and Parkfield - "up in the boonie lands", Central Coast of California, Wine Country
Posts: 733
I seem to recall that there is a fire in LA burning over 100 square miles and releasing carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrates, nitrites, etc. etc. and they are worried about cars which are passing emission standards????
Heck, I just had my little red 1993 Mazda 323 tested and after more than a dozen years of hard driving, and a good tuneup it passes the smog test with flying colors! I vote that all participants in this frivolous law suit be confined to driving bicycles and battery operated Golf Carts for the rest of their days!
Maybe the carmakers could counter-sue California, for passing zoning laws, building codes, etc. that make car-centric sprawl development patterns pretty much mandatory for the last five decades.
Say what you will about California, but I think at least it's a state that's using its political muscle to try to make a change in the right direction. Increasingly, corporations are going to have to be held accountable for the damages they wreak on the environment (which has direct effects on people's health).
Sure, in the case of automobiles, consumers make their own decisions, but don't you think the SUV craze was entirely created and fed by the manufacturers. Large corporations will try to get away with anything they can if it raises profits. I don't want to rant on about it, just watch the documentary The Corporation. If there had be no government regulation of corporations since the Industrial Revolution, I doubt that today's environment would be liveable.
While you're at it, watch Soylent Green. It's people!!!!!!!
If they really want to cut emissions they would discourage people from owning cars that are more than 5-10 years old.
Their restrictions on coal power plants and banning nuclear are... interesting. They are also requiring consumer electronics makers to reduce the "standby" as well as general power consumption... including cell phone chargers. At least they are thinking beyond just cars = evil.
But in the end... even if all new homes get solar panels and sell power back to the grid like they are pushing for... the price paid by the average person is likely going to go up. Either in energy costs, prices for housing or prices for devices. And no matter how big and bad California thinks it is... it's only a drop in the bucket... for even just the US, much less the rest of the world. Taking the lead is fine... but only if you can get others to follow you. After how many decades has other states finally signed on to CARB standards... and how many states is it? yeah... that's what I thought...
The auto makers need to just get together and tell California that they will immediately cease all car sales in that state. That way they aren't contributing to their air pollution problems. Then they should only make 45 state legal cars so they can't sell the ones they do produce there. Sure it would also affect New York and a few other states but that should teach them to stop bitching about companies that meet their own standards. They need to do this now but unfortunately they don't have the intelligence or the ***** to. I would have nothing but respect for any company if they actually made this happen.
While we're at it, Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona all need to sue California for letting their air cross over state lines to pollute their states!
Let's have more fun. If auto makers don't have the ***** to completely cease sales, they need to sell them in the same way many aftermarket parts are sold. In other words "not legal for use on public roads" or "for off road use only". Now you can't complain about the auto makers. You fine the people that actually start up the machines and pollute the air. Of course that would also include the State Attorney General as well since he too drives a car and pollutes! "Say what you will about California..." I will and I proudly do everyday! That's a messed up place full of people who are illogical and who are not right in the head. Automakers need to band together and teach them a lesson and it's something they could very easily do. California needs to get off of it's pedestal.
What an idiot. (sigh).
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