EPA calls for lower-sulfur gasoline
03-29-2013, 12:42 PM
#1
EPA calls for lower-sulfur gasoline
EPA calls for lower-sulfur gasoline - Autoweek
The EPA proposed a package of rules Friday that includes cleaner gasoline and stricter limits on pollution from the tailpipes of cars, despite objections from the oil industry.
The rules, known as Tier 3, have been supported by car companies because they would bring U.S. standards into alignment with those of California, where gasoline must have a lower sulfur content to help reduce tailpipe emissions.
Automakers want to be able to sell the same car in all 50 states, using advanced catalytic converters and other new features that are needed to comply with California rules that take effect in 2017.
The equipment would add an estimated $130 to the cost of a car but reduce certain emissions by 80 percent and, used nationwide, could prevent an estimated 2,400 premature deaths due to air pollution annually.
The rules, known as Tier 3, have been supported by car companies because they would bring U.S. standards into alignment with those of California, where gasoline must have a lower sulfur content to help reduce tailpipe emissions.
Automakers want to be able to sell the same car in all 50 states, using advanced catalytic converters and other new features that are needed to comply with California rules that take effect in 2017.
The equipment would add an estimated $130 to the cost of a car but reduce certain emissions by 80 percent and, used nationwide, could prevent an estimated 2,400 premature deaths due to air pollution annually.
03-29-2013, 01:20 PM
#4
03-29-2013, 01:38 PM
#5
I have some empathy for the oil companies on this. I do contract work for BP. One of their locations I work at is their refinery at Whiting, IN. They are in the middle of a modernization project that costs more than the U.S. Apollo space project. These new government regulations will require upgrades to all refineries east of the Rocky Mountains. Companies are not charities. They will have to pass the cost of this new regulation on to the retailers, who will pass it on to the customer. It will likely add a couple of cents per gallon.
03-29-2013, 02:01 PM
#6
weeeeeeeeee
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Last I checked there was no shortage of revenue on the part of oil companies. Not that I agree with this but I have no sympathy for "the man" when he's bringing in between 380 and 460 billion dollars a year.
03-29-2013, 04:44 PM
#7
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It's a travesty when you do the rough math on gallons of gasoline consumed in the US per year by the average amount of taxes paid per gallon... Comes in at $53 billion. For a bunch of pencil pushers sitting on their *** doing nothing that's a pretty good business to be in. These are the same pencil pushers enforcing these regulations.
I'm all for the advancement of technology and doing things which are good for the environment but the mentality of "oh they have a bunch of money, they can afford it" is completely backasswards. I have sympathy for these guys because someone else (i.e. our government) is making more money off them then they are themselves. It's easy to make these guys out as fat cats rolling in their Scroog McDuck vaults but all too often i think the finger gets pointed in the wrong direction on things like this.
03-29-2013, 05:06 PM
#8
weeeeeeeeee
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$460,000,000,000
Just thought I'd write it long hand for emphasis... I'm not saying the "change" is right, but omfg if you can't make a profit off of $460,000,000,000 you really do need to find a new line of work.
Just thought I'd write it long hand for emphasis... I'm not saying the "change" is right, but omfg if you can't make a profit off of $460,000,000,000 you really do need to find a new line of work.
03-29-2013, 05:25 PM
#9
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LOL continued...
You do realize this is one of the most capital intensive businesses in the entire world dont you?
Oh i have an idea on how they can save money.. how about a pipeline instead of shipping it by truck?? Nope, denied.
You do realize this is one of the most capital intensive businesses in the entire world dont you?
Oh i have an idea on how they can save money.. how about a pipeline instead of shipping it by truck?? Nope, denied.
03-29-2013, 05:36 PM
#10
weeeeeeeeee
iTrader: (12)
Not gonna argue with you man... it's pointless and will end like most "what oil should I put in my 8?" threads.
We'd all be driving electric cars if it wasn't for the oil and auto industry.
We'd all be driving electric cars if it wasn't for the oil and auto industry.
04-01-2013, 08:41 AM
#12
Rockie Mountain Newbie
How do you feel about the $1,600,000,000,000+ our federal government spends per year, 40% of which is being borrowed? At least the oil industry can claim they are creating tangible wealth, creating jobs, and improving the standard of living in the world. Our gov't creates nothing.
The fact that you are typing on your computer, able to say those words, reach into your fridge and pop open a tasty beverage, while cooking a steak on your BBQ grill that doesn't poison you and your family says that you get plenty of tangible benefit from the gov't.
Lets not even bring up the fact that you don't have to drive to work every day through a land mine covered road, or have buses blowing up once a month.
Or better yet, after one of those oil companies spills its valuable profit into our oceans, our gov't FORCES the oil company to clean up the mess they made. Plenty of other countries have these same oil companies leaking decent amounts of oil into their water or land, and they simply ignore the pollution they are causing. Why? Because the other gov't don't have any teeth.
So, I know you're a business owner, and are probably sore about all the tax changes recently, but to say the money all of us pump into the US gov't brings back no returns is nothing but utter bullshit.
And to bring it back on topic, there's even divisions of local and state gov't that's sole job is to make sure your local gas station not only is truly pumping a full gallon of gasoline into your gas tank, but they also make sure that when you pump in 93 octane, it really is at least 93 octane. There's also the ones that make sure that there are roads open and running so that you can drive from your home, to your friends home, or to your office.
It all takes money, and lots of it.
BC.
04-01-2013, 02:27 PM
#16
Rockie Mountain Newbie
BC,
Ah, yes, the Great Government in the Sky that provides us all with the protection we need. If those in gov't could find jobs that actually create wealth and a rising standard of living for society, they would, and they would leave the rest of us alone. The reason they don't is because gov't/politics is the only place where they are allowed to believe what they wish without following the outcomes of their failed policies and are not held responsible for them.
My ONLY concern is that we in America have a gov't which recognizes and follows the limitations placed upon it by our U.S. Constitution and the various state constitutions. Businesses do not pay taxes, people do, and whatever taxes are further heaped upon BHR will simply be passed on to my customers. Simple as that.
The one thing that I really find annoying is that I am told by people like you that I and my fellow Americans are supposed to bow down to expansionist gov't (as if we cannot provide for ourselves and our families without it) when it is our modern gov't which is the worst parasite of them all on our economy and standard of living. If you do not see this, then I cannot help you.
In order for a government to exist, a society must first exist. For a government to operate and properly protect it's society, it must issue taxes at a reasonable rate and regulations to reasonable levels. None of the modern governments around the world are doing this. Rather, they are continuing their intrusions and dictates and I offer Cyprus and the E.U. as prime examples of America's future.
On the other hand; I know how to live off the land, which berries NOT to eat and etc., and I am prepared for whatever future beliefs such as yours deliver to our society.
I hope YOU are prepared.............
Ah, yes, the Great Government in the Sky that provides us all with the protection we need. If those in gov't could find jobs that actually create wealth and a rising standard of living for society, they would, and they would leave the rest of us alone. The reason they don't is because gov't/politics is the only place where they are allowed to believe what they wish without following the outcomes of their failed policies and are not held responsible for them.
My ONLY concern is that we in America have a gov't which recognizes and follows the limitations placed upon it by our U.S. Constitution and the various state constitutions. Businesses do not pay taxes, people do, and whatever taxes are further heaped upon BHR will simply be passed on to my customers. Simple as that.
The one thing that I really find annoying is that I am told by people like you that I and my fellow Americans are supposed to bow down to expansionist gov't (as if we cannot provide for ourselves and our families without it) when it is our modern gov't which is the worst parasite of them all on our economy and standard of living. If you do not see this, then I cannot help you.
In order for a government to exist, a society must first exist. For a government to operate and properly protect it's society, it must issue taxes at a reasonable rate and regulations to reasonable levels. None of the modern governments around the world are doing this. Rather, they are continuing their intrusions and dictates and I offer Cyprus and the E.U. as prime examples of America's future.
On the other hand; I know how to live off the land, which berries NOT to eat and etc., and I am prepared for whatever future beliefs such as yours deliver to our society.
I hope YOU are prepared.............
Unfortunately, Charles, not only do I agree will parts of your post, I also disagree with parts of your post.
There are a huge number of people who went from earning a living in the private secotr to working for the government. Some of these people are involved in regulating vehicle exhaust emissions, and work for the EPA.
These people have access to reports generated by people in the private sector, who tell them that there should be an increase or decrease in the amount of sulfur in gasoline. They provide reports that show the damage done to children, bald eagles, and Jets fans by too much sulfur being released into the atmosphere.
Enough people get concerned about the mentally damaged Jets fans, and bald eagles, and someone sends a letter to their congress-person, asking them to pass a law to protect the bald eagles, because no one really cares about Jets fans, or children, honestly.
So the congress-person then checks with their friends at big business, to see if there would be too much opposition to decreasing the limits of sulfur in gasoline. Big oil says "Nope, we don't object. We will just raise the price of fuel 50 cents per gallon, but we will stage the increase over the next 5 years in order to make the US drivers adapt to the change easier, and to not shock the Economy in one swift blow."
Congress then passes the law, people are outraged that they have to pay more money to protect bald eagles, when they live in a state that doesn't even have any, and people make angry posts about Gov't taking society to hell in a hand basket.
Last time I checked, Charles, you and I can't decrease the level of sulfur in our fuel, because we aren't mixing it ourselves for use in our vehicles. If I'm wrong on that, just let me know. So in order to get lower level of sulfur in our fuel, just like in California, and almost all European countries, the Gov't has to pass a law, in order to get the oil refineries to change their processing facilities, in order to let all of us fuel consumers, drive around, and not poison bald eagles, children, or make Jets fans even more unstable.
Honestly, I like bald eagles, and I don't think Jets fans need anymore mental health issues from huffing in exhaust fumes at the end of every losing season. Children? Bah, who f-ing cares?
As for all the other things that gov't does, some are useful, and others are less so.
If there are ones I don't agree with, I write letters, and alter my votes as I see fit.
You are free to write letters and vote accordingly to how you see things going, along with everyone else.
That's the great thing about this country:
If you don't like something, you can say so, to as many people as you can, and try and make a change. And it doesn't matter if you work in the private sector, or in the gov't. No one's going to tie you to a tree and beat you to death, unless you live in the wrong section of the US, and the people who have small minds can't handle your opinion.
So, I stayed completely on topic, and made my points.
Hopefully I won't get banned, or have my post altered too much.
BC.
04-02-2013, 07:20 PM
#17
Rockie Mountain Newbie
As I have mentioned in the 98% of the forum are meanies thread, I make my living delivering internet ads to you very nice people with computers, for a variety of clients. If anyone is a scourge on the good people living on this planet, it's my industry. But, they supply a very enjoyable paycheck, and I'm damn good at my job, so I keep on doing it. Plus, you also, in a way, make your living off of Internet Advertising, so we have a bit of common ground, in a way.
Everyday there are new bills and laws being passed to try and control if not end my industry, but we have some pretty decent connections in the government, just like the people who decided that lowering the sulfur content in gasoline do.
So I can see your point, as well as make my own, without needing to call anything revolving around the Capital Market system a scourge on humanity.
My original point was that you said that your tax dollars do not bring any form of value, and I stated that this is not correct. I still stand by my statement that plenty of tax dollars go to many things that bring value to us as citizens. But you are correct that there are many other tax dollars going to other things that would be best if they were reallocated to other, underfunded needs that would benefit the country.
I bet our personal opinions of what should and shouldn't be funded with our tax dollars differs in a few areas, but that's a discussion for some other time, in some other thread.
I hope you're enjoying this discussion about how laws like the sulfur change affect us all as much as I am.
BC.
04-03-2013, 10:58 AM
#18
i've lived in CA my whole life, and we've had the 91 gas for what 20 years? and you know what? you won't notice the difference. car runs the same.
04-03-2013, 11:00 AM
#19
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91 octane is a pretty big difference compared to 93 octane on tuning a boosted car (which my daily driver is). No, I wouldn't care for N/A cars too much, but boosted and tuned for a certain octane? You betcha I care.
04-03-2013, 11:18 AM
#20
Legend In My Own Mind
I have a buddy with a boosted VW that was stuck moving to KC where they mainly only had 91. He had to have his car retuned for it due to knocking. He was also pissed when he came to St. Louis for school and 93 was readily available because he had to pay to have it tuned again.
04-08-2013, 10:43 PM
#21
Everyone forgets that this is all based upon false assumption of 3 trees and their rings.
Man made Global warming is a farce.
However, having one blend of gas for all the states is good for supply and demand.
In fact get rid of the stupid winter and summer blends. Just have one.
I just wish it would be the other way. Get rid of the California specifications.
Even if you disagree with me.
This is a big sham like a pyramid sham.
I can drive 80 miles to Mexico and pollute as much as I want.
There are supposed to be more cars sold in China than the USA in a few years.
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world.
Last time I looked the sun is getting larger every day and getting hotter.
At some point in time we will be as hot as Venus.
Man made Global warming is a farce.
However, having one blend of gas for all the states is good for supply and demand.
In fact get rid of the stupid winter and summer blends. Just have one.
I just wish it would be the other way. Get rid of the California specifications.
Even if you disagree with me.
This is a big sham like a pyramid sham.
I can drive 80 miles to Mexico and pollute as much as I want.
There are supposed to be more cars sold in China than the USA in a few years.
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world.
Last time I looked the sun is getting larger every day and getting hotter.
At some point in time we will be as hot as Venus.
04-09-2013, 05:37 AM
#23
Everyone forgets that this is all based upon false assumption of 3 trees and their rings.
Man made Global warming is a farce.
However, having one blend of gas for all the states is good for supply and demand.
In fact get rid of the stupid winter and summer blends. Just have one.
I just wish it would be the other way. Get rid of the California specifications.
Even if you disagree with me.
This is a big sham like a pyramid sham.
I can drive 80 miles to Mexico and pollute as much as I want.
There are supposed to be more cars sold in China than the USA in a few years.
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world.
Last time I looked the sun is getting larger every day and getting hotter.
At some point in time we will be as hot as Venus.
Man made Global warming is a farce.
However, having one blend of gas for all the states is good for supply and demand.
In fact get rid of the stupid winter and summer blends. Just have one.
I just wish it would be the other way. Get rid of the California specifications.
Even if you disagree with me.
This is a big sham like a pyramid sham.
I can drive 80 miles to Mexico and pollute as much as I want.
There are supposed to be more cars sold in China than the USA in a few years.
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world.
Last time I looked the sun is getting larger every day and getting hotter.
At some point in time we will be as hot as Venus.
well seriously, the big companies not gonna cared that the new equiptment will cost them blah blah blah billions, they will get it back eventually, actually, wayyy more.
the problem is does this additional cost will really help ? i gotta say nope, just like that 10% ethanol bullshit they shove down our throats. the only thing good about it is corn farmers getting more money, us? higher prices, more poisonous gas, shittier mpg, kill engines.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-09-2013 at 05:39 AM.
04-09-2013, 11:23 AM
#24
I just wish it would be the other way. Get rid of the California specifications.
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world..
The world is polluting and no matter how righteous you think you are with these bone head regulations it ain't gonna work. The USA and Europe can not control the climate.
We all breath the same air and it circulates around the world..
agreed with the second part too, its a global thing, although its better china is dangerously dirty to live in and not here!
04-09-2013, 11:25 AM
#25