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Well.....after a drive in a buddy's 125cc shifter kart.....I think I'm hooked! My best friend and I have usually done the whole autocross and track days with our cars, but for some reason we were both intrigued by the idea of hitting 3gs when cornering around a track.
I'm sure there are a few on this forum that kart and few that might even do it on a competitive level. I currently have a deal from a service tech at my friend's dealership. He's getting rid of the following:
2005 Tony Kart 125cc Shifter
Tony Kart Psylo Chassis
Yamaha Engine
Pro Kartlift
2 Bell Kart Helments (My friend and I will be co-driving the kart)
2 sets of Alpinestars gloves
2 sets of Sparco driving suits
Trailer with tool bins
He's letting it go for $4200 for everything. I'm really tempted and have been scouring the karting forums for more information. The more I look....the more I don't want to buy a used kart though.
Any advice? I know the whole cost vs. competitive nature of this sport and I"m not looking to win every national event......I just want to get my feet wet with karting. The whole 125cc shifter is even alot to begin with. Couple of guys recommended Rotax and other karts, but I think I'll stick with the 125cc shifter karts.
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__________________ 2005 Mazda RX8 VR: Greddy SE Exhaust, AEM CAI, Burnout KD-IV Front Lip, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers, BHR Ignition, AFE SS, PT Sways, AP Endlinks, SS Brake Lines, Carbotech XP10 / XP8, Motul RBF600, and Cobb AP. 1993 Mazda Miata: Mazda crate engine, Port and polished head and intake manifold from Flyin' Miata, BSP braces, H&R Race, RSR Exmag GTII exhaust, Mazda Comp TP, MS PNP9093, Innovate LC-1, Fuji Racing 45mm IRTBs, RS Aizawa fuel rail, Pipercross Air Horns....
I used to own a Tony Kart 125cc Espirit shifter. FYI, Tony Kart was used by the likes of Michael Schumacher and Danica Patrick. Got it for $6000 used. Didn't use it too much because the track where I used it was way too small. Got to third gear at the most. I should have gotten one for a smaller class. I wish I started when I was younger. Maybe I could have become like my idol Ayrton Senna. Anyways, I don't have any tips to give you, but just have fun. The pic below is me trying to be like Michael Andretti. Would have looked better with the sidepods on.
The good thing is that we have a ton of kart tracks in southern California. Do you know the average cost of running a 125cc shifter kart for a full season?
__________________ 2005 Mazda RX8 VR: Greddy SE Exhaust, AEM CAI, Burnout KD-IV Front Lip, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers, BHR Ignition, AFE SS, PT Sways, AP Endlinks, SS Brake Lines, Carbotech XP10 / XP8, Motul RBF600, and Cobb AP. 1993 Mazda Miata: Mazda crate engine, Port and polished head and intake manifold from Flyin' Miata, BSP braces, H&R Race, RSR Exmag GTII exhaust, Mazda Comp TP, MS PNP9093, Innovate LC-1, Fuji Racing 45mm IRTBs, RS Aizawa fuel rail, Pipercross Air Horns....
Like you, I wish I knew all the factors for a decision. In my limited look, I heard shifter karts are out TAG karts are in. My decision not to pursue it were really my family circumstances, not an opinion against karting.
There is one track 45 min from me, and every time I would want to go it would be $60. Then when i thought of needing a trailer, and the time to go out there, and setup issues with me being 6'3" and two of my kids being 5' I kinda gave up looking. BUT, for wheel to wheel competition and a relatively low investment, it is hard to beat.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Please see the For Sale forum for items from my sold: 2005 RX-8 manual with KW3 coilovers, 5Zigen bronze wheels, Racing Beat software.
I have several kart tracks here in southern California so I don't think that would be a big problem. The model that I'm looking at has the trailer w/ tool bins, Kart Lift kart stand, extra set of tires, and two sets of suits, driving gloves, SANS devices, and Bell Helmets.
I think I'm going to make the move!
__________________ 2005 Mazda RX8 VR: Greddy SE Exhaust, AEM CAI, Burnout KD-IV Front Lip, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers, BHR Ignition, AFE SS, PT Sways, AP Endlinks, SS Brake Lines, Carbotech XP10 / XP8, Motul RBF600, and Cobb AP. 1993 Mazda Miata: Mazda crate engine, Port and polished head and intake manifold from Flyin' Miata, BSP braces, H&R Race, RSR Exmag GTII exhaust, Mazda Comp TP, MS PNP9093, Innovate LC-1, Fuji Racing 45mm IRTBs, RS Aizawa fuel rail, Pipercross Air Horns....
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Please see the For Sale forum for items from my sold: 2005 RX-8 manual with KW3 coilovers, 5Zigen bronze wheels, Racing Beat software.
My recommendation is to start in the Rotax class. My father raced karts for over 10 years and started out in the 125cc shifters. What happens is the 125's are more expensive to run and be competitive....blueprinting engines, go fast parts, new tires for each race during the day, etc. Like the difference between Formula 1 and Spec Miata.
The Rotax class is a cheaper way to get started in racing, spec engines that you can't modify, no shifting which allows you to focus on basics, looking ahead, breaking markers, turn it, apex, exit and carrying corner speed. You will become a better driver and learn to carry more corner speed quicker. You will also be able to be competitive without spending top dollar to do it and the kart is easier on tires.
BTW, the Rotax class still is very fast and is just as fun as a 125cc shifter would be. Don't let the "shifting" part of it sway you to go directly into the shifter class. You can always move up if that is your cup of tea.
Good luck man!!
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Currently looking for a new Rx8.
Have a 2003 BMW M3
I guess some of you are right. I got my first taste of kart speeds in a 125cc shifter kart. So that's probably why I'm biased.
I'm going to look at a few Rotax karts. I'm thinking the Rotax Max Challenge is perfect for what I'm seeking and it really levels the playing field with the regulation on motors.
Thanks for all the help guys!
__________________ 2005 Mazda RX8 VR: Greddy SE Exhaust, AEM CAI, Burnout KD-IV Front Lip, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers, BHR Ignition, AFE SS, PT Sways, AP Endlinks, SS Brake Lines, Carbotech XP10 / XP8, Motul RBF600, and Cobb AP. 1993 Mazda Miata: Mazda crate engine, Port and polished head and intake manifold from Flyin' Miata, BSP braces, H&R Race, RSR Exmag GTII exhaust, Mazda Comp TP, MS PNP9093, Innovate LC-1, Fuji Racing 45mm IRTBs, RS Aizawa fuel rail, Pipercross Air Horns....
If its an enclosed trailer $4200 may still be a bit steep. If its an open trailer I wouldn't pay over $3200 for the package.
Good and the the bad;
Tonykarts make an excellent chassis and its easy to tune. The brakes suck; they require constant bleeding and the bleeder threads tend to break on the calipers. They also require a gravity feed fill tool about $75. Brake pads are big for a kart and when they're new they work really well. But the pads tend to harden after sitting a while so rarely will you use the full pad before replacing at $140 a set.
Yamaha engines are stout although the CR125 was the most popular. Its probably a Mod Moto and they usually run astronomical compression ratios. Always run fresh fuel in it, and don't eevn think about pump fuel; Phillips T111 or VP C12 ONLY.
Not may racing Mod Motos at sprint tracks, but they're still popular at road races. Once you road race you'll be hooked.
Stock Moto is the biggest shifter class, running a CR125 with limited mods. Still very fast, with the reliability killing mods outlawed. Close enough in power to a mod moto that you'll never know the difference until about 100 hours of seat time.
Operating cost of a mod moto engine is about 5 times that of a Stock Moto. You'll probably spend enough on the mod moto through an entire season to buy and race a Stock Moto.
Two websites to look over: http://kartweb.com/ is the largest technical site on shifter karts particularly Moto engines. Its my site and back when we raced shifters full time we developed a ton of tech info, enough that we have a subscriber section dedicated to engine building, chassis setup and data acquisition training. There are about 50 hours of race videos as well that we produced before YouTube showed up. We're retired from karting.
I've spent over 25 years racing SCCA and IMSA, and frankly nothing was as much fun as shifterkarts. By the time I reached 50 they were a bit much to handle. OK maybe 45, but I still had a ton of fun.
I've actually browsed through that website. Thank you so much for your input! I didn't read too much in the Stock Moto class since.....you guessed it.....the kart I was looking for was designated for the Mod Moto class.
I'm really thankful that you posted your links. I'm getting more and more excited as I take the next steps to pursue this hobby.
__________________ 2005 Mazda RX8 VR: Greddy SE Exhaust, AEM CAI, Burnout KD-IV Front Lip, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers, BHR Ignition, AFE SS, PT Sways, AP Endlinks, SS Brake Lines, Carbotech XP10 / XP8, Motul RBF600, and Cobb AP. 1993 Mazda Miata: Mazda crate engine, Port and polished head and intake manifold from Flyin' Miata, BSP braces, H&R Race, RSR Exmag GTII exhaust, Mazda Comp TP, MS PNP9093, Innovate LC-1, Fuji Racing 45mm IRTBs, RS Aizawa fuel rail, Pipercross Air Horns....
I traded my built FC for a shifter kart after a few test drives. Autox'd it for 2yrs and did well with it, then sold it when I moved.... since autox'd cars a couple times and noticed a big improvement in my driving skills... in that I can predict whats going to happen and where to place the car better, as well I don't find myself tossing the steering wheel around as much. Shifter karts are a rip and hard to beat thrill, young mans game though.. will beat up your back n body... endurance is key so ya bets be fit. Far as kart recommends go I was happy with the Tony Kart I had, would recommend holding out for a honda motor if you can. Bear in mind a good setup can be 9-10k new and a new motor is 1/2 that cost. Look for solid/modern brakes, look at the condition of the exhaust system, frame, and bearings, and get a compression check done. If you use it just for autox, maintenance will be low, but keep spark plugs handy as 2strokes don't like to idle.... check how you fit in the seat too, may have to get a different one.
I would second the notion of trying out a rotax kart before you make the plunge. While I don't race either of them I have driven both of them and really enjoyed the rotax. You can spend a lot on a mod moto. The karts are a tremendous training aid to your driving and a ton of fun to boot. In the end, you can drive a full size racecar (at the lower levels of course, think entry level IT car in SCCA) for about the same initial price. The nice thing is the kart will fit in the bed of a truck or even the back of a station wagon. The biggest thing to look at would be what type of comeptition will you have in each class, how much money are they spending and what are the chances of you being mildly competitive and having fun in each class. I suggest going for thre class with the most people, you're likely to have more fun that way.
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