nzarnow

Why is it that everywhere I look they rate the automatic version of the 2005 GTO 0-60 time at 4.7 seconds and the MANUAL version of the same car at a slower 4.8?? How the heck does that make any sense? If you do a clutch drop you should get like 4.4 - 4.6 and the auto about 4.7 - 5.1. Anyone out there familar with this car?

The car is insanely fast, but shouldn't any manual car be faster then a normal slush bucket automatic?

Remember, these are exactly the same cars except for the transmissions.

Someone help me out,

Thanks

Rhawb

Automatics can actually shift faster than a human can with a stick shift. Stick is typically faster around a race track by a bit, but it's not necessarily faster in a drag car.

Sigma

For muscle cars going for straight 1/4-mile times it's often all about Automatics.

An Automatic can take more torque more reliably than a Manual can and it can shift faster. And when you're generating 400lb/ft of torque bone-stock, and easily modded to over 700lb/ft, giving up a little bit of that to the torque converter is no problem. And because of the torque converter stall they can actually make more torque off the line than a manual can.

They also generally have fewer gears than their Manual counterparts resulting in fewer shifts down the track and better ratios in the few gears they do have.

In the case of the GTO, all one has to do is look at the gear ratios.

nzarnow

Only SMG's and trannies like those can, but normal slush boxes like these are slower.


Also, what about clutch drops? You can do a 4500rpm drop on a manual and either do a neutral dunk in an auto and blow your trans or a wimpy brake start?

Sigma

A modern, computer-controlled Automatic will shift faster than any person can. Guaranteed. If it's race-tuned it'll shift virtually instantaneously.

The only way a manual wins in shift-times over an Automatic is if you're power-shifting. Which is an effective way to totally screw up a transmission if you mess up.

You don't clutch-drop a car with 400+lb/ft of torque. You launch a GTO in the mid 3s and you feather it out a bit to control power to the wheels. All you get on a clutch-drop is an ***-load of wheel-spin and enough wheel-hop to rip your rear-suspension out from your car.

And the "wimpy brakestand" is exactly how many pro drag-racers launch their cars.

And then there's the torque converter and something called stall torque ratio which multiples the torque up to the rated stall speed.

Steiner

Simple. It takes the manual tranny 3 shifts to reach 60mph but it only takes the automatic tranny 2 shifts.

Hornet

It's not the first time that happened. If I remember correctly, on at least one review in a car magazine the auto trans Trans Am was faster than the manual in the 0-60. That was an early 90s model.

VikingDJ

I've seen this several times, and it's always been in the high hp range. When you are pushing 400hp and 400 feet of torque, this is where the automatic shines. For most cars, which are not high hp like this, the manual is almost always faster. Auto trannies love torque, and when you give it these kinds of numbers, many times it's gonna outshine a manual, with no skill needed. Also, you can launch automatics of this hp caliber well in an auto, unlike in lesser hp vehicles. Personally, I'd take an auto in 350hp/torque or above any day, because those are the most deadly, with all that power, and no mis-shifting.

Chrisbert

If I remember correctly the early year-model Porsche 928 were faster in Auto than Manual because of a sloppy linkage. So, it can happen.

DreRX8

The 1st gen SLKs auto was faster than the manual counterparts and the auto and manual SLK280 both are rated at 6.1 sec 0-60. I agree with VikingDJ--if I got a car with over 350HP/torque then I'd probably opt for an auto. Most of the big motors on the drag strips auto auto trannies.

nzarnow

Hmm, the above statements make sense, but the manual has got to be 100 percent more fun to drive don't you think?

army_rx8

no kidding..i would want to have fun with an auto on a road course..kinda boring..hehe the right hand and left foot would get bored i think :p

DreRX8

Yeah--but with traffic and all--I'd go for an auto in this type of engine--besides those big motor 8s usually aren't really rev'rs--I prefer a stick in a 4 or 6 cylinder--or at least an engine that loves to rev.

VikingDJ

I Agree. High revving to me is what makes manuals fun to drive. Once you start hitting the high hp range in naturally aspirated engines, it becomes less of a neccessity to have manual. Cars like the RX8 absolutely need to be manual, because unlike a high hp auto, you need to work the high rpms at the right shift points to really move this car, and to me that's where the fun is. With cars like an auto GTO, the power is waiting for you in the lower range, and the auto tranny responds very quickly, with no breaks between shifting, and no change in power when it shifts, unlike the lesser hp automatics.

MrH

Ok, time to correct all the mistakes found in this thread so far....

-Automatics can not shift faster than any human can. Altered automatic transmission built for racing applications can sometimes shift faster, but the majority of automatics being produced for the general public shift slower than a good driver with a decent manual transmission.

-Automatics don't "love torque" anymore than manuals "love torque". It has to do with gear ratios and shifting points. I think someone pointed out it takes three shifts to get to 60 in a manual and 2 in an automatic. I'm not positive, but that could very well be the case. Also, just shorter gearing in general.

-Muscle cars, and cars built for drag racing aren't done because automatics "love torque", but instead it's for consistency.

"With cars like an auto GTO, the power is waiting for you in the lower range, and the auto tranny responds very quickly, with no breaks between shifting, and no change in power when it shifts, unlike the lesser hp automatics."

How does the torque curve of the engine have anything to do with the speed at which it shifts? And of course there's a change in "power" when it shifts. Otherwise the torque curve would look like downhill slope, which is never the case.

VikingDJ

WRONG WRONG WRONG AND WRONG :D

Sigma

A decent Automatic will shift in less than 0.30s, one in a performance model will shift in less than 0.20s, and a very race-tuned automatic will shift in about 0.10s. A good manual driver can only shift in 0.4 and the best will be lucky to break 0.30 without power-shifting and even that's not a big time-savings.

I absolutely, postively, guarantee you that you can't shift as fast as a modern automatic that adjusts to conditions and knows when it needs to shift hard and fast. I can drive a stick pretty damn good on the strip, been doing it for years, my Mazda6s MTX runs a 14.82 bone-stock; but I know for certain that, ouside of power-shifting the 6s, my Mazda3s ATX can shift faster than I can when it wants to. Yes, in day-to-day driving it shifts slower than I do normally, but when it wants to it can change gears extremely quickly. With a tiny valvebody job it could shift faster than I could ever dream of shifting by hand.

You ask any real drag-racer and they will tell you that an Automatic will shift faster and more consistently than a Manual can. That holds true with very rare exception.

If you wanna test it, just go to a drag-strip and measure the distance between skidmarks. You can be almost certain that the gap between 1st and 2nd gear skidmarks will be larger with the Manual car than the Automatic, I don't care who's driving the Manual.

Drag racing has nothing to do with gear ratios and shift points? Hold the phone, we've had it all wrong the past 75 years.

But then you mention it's shorter gearing -- so which is it? Is it not gear ratios or is it gear ratios?

And, yes, the A4 GTO only takes 2 shifts to get through the 1/4-mile, the M6 GTO takes 3 unless you want to bounce off the limiter, which many drivers do, leaving them with only 2 shifts as well. But, despite a better 2nd gear, the M6 won't beat the A4 at the track -- it's just too strong off the line and through 1st.

nzarnow

So what I am gathering, it is due to the automatics less gears compared to the 2 more manual shifts. Also because there is so much hp/tq, you can't clutch drop and there goes the one of the few advantages of a manual.

That is my summary, what do you guys think?

MrH

:p

PetersonPeleRx8

In the majority of cars, the manual version is faster than the auto. Only in high power cars does the gap begin to close.

My father has a GTO, and I'm getting one, I read about them all the time over on Ls1gto.com. The auto '05 gto is faster than the manual to 60, but from there the manual starts to reel it back in. By the end of the quarter, it will be a tie, or the manual in front by a bit.

globi

At least theoretically a planetary gearbox (automatic) should always transmit torque even when shifting, since the gearwheels are always connected. A planetary gearbox shifts by braking gearwheels not by 'shifting' gearwheels.