kickerfox

The stock ecu would probably go apeshit do to the number of feedback loops it monitors. As for the v6 options, I'm all ears.

Ideally another v6 would need to be:
1. Inexpensive and plentiful
2. Aluminum block and heads
3. DOHC (belt drive prefered)
4. 24v
5. Non-interference
6. Closed deck (I'm making this sacrifice with the Isuzu option)
7. Forged Internals
8. Strong bottom end (for future FI options)
9. Has an aftermarket following
10. Come in RWD application using a manual transmission with a wide varity of ratio options. (transmissions see #1)
11. Compact to fit the 8's engine bay.
12. OBD-2
13. Stock NA torque >200ft-lbs.
14. Heads that don't stick out past the rear of the block.

As for steering... I'll likely convert it to an MX-5 hydraulic power rack. I'm sure I can get a decent chunk of change for all the parts I'll be removing from my car. The electric rack should more then pay for an MX-5 rack, pump, and lines. The 13b engine must have some used value as a core motor. I'm currently driving the car now but it doesn't idle right. I wish it would chuck a seal already so I can get started on this swap. lol

kickerfox

No? Tell me that when I'm shoving 15psi down a 3.2L's (or maybe the stroked version 3.5L's) throat in a 3000lb car. Even NA the thing will eat a 13b. My last "sporty" cars were a SR20DET swaped Sentra@20psi that did nothing but eat tires. Pretty useless car so I sold it. Before that was a 1000lb 96" sandrail with a KLDE NA (~180hp) swap. Only 180hp you say? It'd take >500hp in an RX-8 to equal the same power to weight ratio. Before that a BPT Miata@15psi running an AEM EMS on a DIY street tune I did from a Miata NA map to 0bar and Mitsubishi turbo map >0bar plus my own work like sequential ignition conversion and per-cylinder ignition and fuel maps. It had no problem keeping up with a modded Skyline until about 130mph. I ran out of gears. Ran it for 4 years like that.

A swap will cost me less then $1000. By the way, it's $720 anual savings per 10,000mi@3.20/gal.

X7rotor

iTrader: (2)

Less then 1000? If you pull this off i wonder how much you can make my car a manual.

Your better off with s euro v6 motor vr6 or a mustang v6 2010 n up. Why not a 350zed engine

kickerfox

Engines are $300-500 for any engine in the yard, $50 for ECU and $50 for complete harness. Transmissions are $100~200 if I recall correctly for any trans in the yard. The Miata steering racks are under $100 on ebay. Metal I can by for scrap value from the local yard. The local hose shop makes me high pressure linesets for $50. Don't forget money made selling the old RX-8 parts removed for the swap. I'm not including my labor in the quote. That's an additional $10,000 :D

When's the last time you saw a 350z in the junkyard let alone one with a complete engine? The VQ35 is a great engine but expensive. I've be paying ebay prices. Same goes for the Mustang engine. What's an s euro v6? If it's not in the states or it's rare, again, ebay prices. If your car is an RX-8 it's the same issue. No parts in the yards and your paying ebay prices for your manual trans swap. The Isuzu on the other hand? There were TONS of those motors in dozens of vehicles from at least two manufactures like Honda (in the Passport) and in Isuzu SUVs. Rebuild kits are cheap. Obviously there's little to be found in aftermarket parts but I'm good at finding OEM parts off different engines that would be an upgrade for me. Maybe some stock SR20DET rods would fit. Maybe the Isuzu turbo i4 rods would fit. It's less expensive to turn a crank or open a rod then it is to make custom rods. That's how I manage to save a ton of money but it takes ALOT of time and research.

kickerfox

Too far forward. I'm trying to keep the weight back. Did you cut the upper core support out or does it remove?

bse50

You should see the newer pics... now it sits way back (Ingemar also said it in his post...).

Mawnee

Nice looking swap Fastlane!


Thanks for the confirmation

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

here is a teaser vid of a v/6 swap. The op is taking this much further than the guy in the video did with a toyoto.
Gauges working?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...cCSnGXACEZ72qA

You dont have keyless ignition in your car do you?
If you are going to exchange steering racks --then heck go with the ls v/8 made for the front wheel drive Impala. It has a much shorter front and it is real cheap.
NA-- I like the v/6 better! I do wish you could find a cheap Buick Grand national one....

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Kicker have you ever seen a dyno plot of one of these turds?

WingleBeast

This is going to be so fun to watch.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ever see the dyno plot of the rx8? lol.
Point is --this will not be a stock engine--if I understand correctly? I think he is choosing the engine for its strengths and potential?

kickerfox

What exactly are you trying to prove? I'm not going for huge numbers. I'm simply looking for some more torque. Hitler said it best "The rotary doesn't have enough torque to pull the panties off your drunken sister".
No I don't. I only have keyless entry.

I haven't seen any. There's very little information out there about it.

I judge a motor by it's build quality. Whatever is does out of the factory isn't going to be the same as mine. I'll be building my exhaust and intake. The intake will play a major roll. I'm going to assume the cams are ground for torque considering it's a truck engine. It's downfalls are the cams, open deck, and the crank is iron. Rods are forged with sprayers. The cam followers are buckets so that should keep the valvetrain a little lighter. If I can make it rev to 7k and maintain >200ft-lbs of torque it would be quite an improvement for the car even though that's only 266hp.

Here's a list of specs from the '04 Rodeo 6VE1 (3.5L)

•3,494 cc 3.5 liters V 6 front engine with 93.4 mm bore, 85 mm stroke, 10.3 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
•Unleaded fuel 87
•Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 21 and EPA city (mpg): 17
•Multi-point injection fuel system
•20 gallon main unleaded fuel tank
•Heavy duty battery
•Power: 186 kW , 250 HP SAE @ 5,600 rpm; 246 ft lb , 334 Nm @ 3,000 rpm

Here's another list of specs for the Isuzu v6 in general.

stickmantijuana

Most of us on this forum equate an engine swap with a major whp upgrade. You just have a different goal. You'll hear some undeserved criticisms, but you'll also receive a lot of support from some very knowledgeable guys.

If I may suggest something.. keep your steering geometry stock and keep your electric power steering. If you change those things, you will no longer be driving an rx8. That also really seems to defeat the point of getting a v6 rather than a v8. Why settle for a v6 if you're going to hack up the steering geometry anyway? If you're just looking for junkyard simplicity, torque, and low cost, have you looked into carb motors? Wish u luck!

kickerfox

Just by changing the engine I'm no longer driving an rx-8.

I'm looking for a torque upgrade but not the level of LS swaps. That's too much. v6s make a nice tone imo but not as good as the purr of an i6 or even the rotary. If I can stay behind the steering rack I'll be closer to equal weight distribution then I would be hanging a v8 or i6 out in the nose. Can the electric rack be controlled without the stock ECU? There's probably some weight savings going to a hydraulic assist rack. Having owned and driven many Miatas, I was never unhappy with it's steering.

stickmantijuana

You need stock ECU to control the e-power steering motor. I also have a different motor swapped in my car behind the power steering rack. I use standalone microtech to control the motor. I use RX8 computer to control the gauges & the power steering. Only light I get is check engine light, and that's because of low MAF signal which isn't connected.

Almost every engine swap done on this forum has done it this way. Dont try to reinvent the wheel. I learned that the hard way.

kickerfox

Found this.

1999 Isuzu Amigo 3.2L 205hp@5400rpm 214lb-ft.@3,000rpm
0-60 8.9sec
3,651lb curb weight
Tow capacity 4500 pounds (thought that was interesting)

I forgot to get back to you on this. Yes that's a great engine but it's a cast iron block. Any idea what it weighs fully dressed? The sump shouldn't be much of a limitation because a new sump can always be fabricated.

stickmantijuana

I do think you'll get a better response elsewhere about your engine choice. Perhaps dune buggy forums? Once you have chosen your engine, you'll probably have much better luck here trying to make it work in an rx8.

What you seek is simply not what we seek in an engine swap. This forum generally leans towards high HP potential motors needlessly polished to mirror finish , turbo friendly motors with aftermarket forged internals, and overpriced 3 rotors. You'll find that most on this forum will gladly spend $3-5k on a 'proper' motor, and the majority will spend double that on the supporting mods.

Your choice seems like a fine motor if you possess the skills to make it work in a very short period of time from junkyard parts. I just dont think many of us will have much to say about your particular choices other than what we can farm out from google.

Mawnee

See thats my point. You keep bashing the rx8 torque but then acting like 200ft/lb is some kind of massive amount that will make your car a rocket.

You are talking like your car will suddenly be this:



When really.....




If the reality is you are just doing a junkyard swap because you cant afford to fix/replace the renesis or put a real engine in it then thats fine. But please stop talking about torque. When you bragged about your previous cars it only made it worse....
Its reminding me of stereotypical ricer gas station talk.
"Yo dawg I've got 200hp to the wheels! Its hella fast. Its all about power to weight. Now I roast my 6" wide tires!"

kickerfox

I hope I can settle on something by spring. I wasn't looking here for a whole lot of information about this particular Isuzu engine. I'm just sharing the information I've gathered about it and how it's built. It has potential for high levels of "budget horsepower" and there are many bolt-on transmissions options. That fact alone is why I'm so interested in it. It just needs a little refinement.

As more and more RX-8's become available in the used market, more and more people may consider them for project cars much like the 2nd gen RX-7's were. The 8s are showing up in junkyards everywhere since the warranty ended. I paid $3k for my 8 as a rolling chassis. A few years ago they were $10k or more and I couldn't find a roller. Unfortunatly I got it running but it's likely on borrowed time. I'm going to enjoy it while I can because it's a very fun car to drive... over 5000rpm.

kickerfox

I haven't braged about anything. I only listed some of the recent cars I've owned with any amount of power. My Miata was my baby but the sandrail was a riot to drive. Less then 6lb per horsepower is exciting and I will brag about that one all day. It lost to a GT35 swap'd EVO by one car length. Not bad for a DIY "junkyard parts" NA toy. "Oh snap", I'm starting to sound like a tuner.

The 200lb-ft. figure that your persistent in mentioning is the NA torque of the v6 out of the box. In some applications it's 250ft-lbs. What do you think that engine will do with forced induction? Don't be so fixed and narrow minded. There's plenty of potential for that Isuzu engine to make MUCH more power then it rolled off the assembly line with. If it wasn't for the cast crank, it's very similar to the VQ35 but 1/3 the cost. I have room to blow it up twice. (That's a joke).

kickerfox

Look what I found! People are flying this engine! Enstone Flying Club, Oxfordshire,V6 Isuzu Engine,Sub-Page

How do you feel about the MX-5's hyd. rack? Any improvements through the various years? I'm hoping to get the front of the engine behind the 8s rack. The crank pully would be directly above it. This puts the entire sump in an accessable location. The Isuzu's oil filter mount sticks off the front of it like a wart. It'll have to be relocated.

Here's a shot of the front of the DOHC engine (SOHC same block). The area circled is where this long goofy filter housing bolts on. I'd have to see how much metal is there but maybe it could be tapped for banjo bolt feeds to a remote filter. Keeps things compact if that's the case.



EDIT - Found a good picture showing the oil filter mount.

fastlaneracing

If its getting behind it you are golden, must check out your engine choise when im on a computer and not an iPhone

Slidin8

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for torque, I can tell you i only have 156ft/lbs. But what I do have is a very useful powerband; a powerband which spreads over 9000rpm. A powerband that makes me a nightmare for people like you on the track. If you let your "Piston RX Dream" go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will sleep with your drunken sister.

kickerfox

Googling images, it looks to be a hydraulic rack. My understanding is that steering boxes and racks are all linear gearing in which case the steering ratio and assist force is all that's important. The front end of a BP Miata, with it's cast iron block, is probably close in weight to the 8's front end. That is, at the contact patch of the front tires. The Miata's engine is right over the front wheels. I note this because the force needed to turn the wheels could be close but I don't know if the spindles are the same length. That could have a large impact on the steering torque to the spindle.

Here's the Miata's power plant frame and the only one I could find of the RX-8's drivetrain.





I appreciate your competitiveness. This is simple a "for fun" project. I won't be racing the car but I wouldn't mind taking a run around a track some day. I don't need to win. I'd just do it for fun. As I've mentioned, the 8 doesn't like going slow. Although I haven't been on the track, I can imagine it's a blast to drive.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

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