Revolver

Crap - I think I might buy a Passat. Somebody help me.

To explain - we need to replace the family car sooner or later (currently an '06 Mazda 6 sedan). Kids are getting bigger, dog now too and we're getting into more outdoor pursuits - camping, horse riding, heading bush, etc. However, we're not the 4WDing type - will be sticking to roads with the odd dirt track but nothing so bumpy that low range is required - if I have to go under 60km/h to get there, I'm not interested.

So, essentially, we need a wagon which can cope with a bit of gear and the odd bumpy road and AWD would be a bonus for ski trips and muddy bogs. Budget - under $60K before on roads, etc - I'm not a fan of paying $80-100K for a car then worrying about it being trashed by kids and a dog or some mad bitch in a supermarket car park (not my wife, well, mostly not, lol)...

Now, before you all start suggesting SUVs and 4WDs, remember that I have a near pathological hatred of truckcars and anything approaching 2 tons of lard. I hate driving a boat on land and just won't do it, so if it handles like the QE2, forget it. 90% of its time will be spent in the suburbs too, so fuel economy is also relatively important - something trucksters suck at. However, that said I don't want a wheezy slug that needs to be tromped on to keep up with traffic.

Let me make it even harder. I would rather stick forks in my eyes than buy a Ford or a Holden. I've been there and done that a number of times and been burned by crap build quality, ordinary engineering and 'we don't give a ****' customer service and servicing. They both had their chance with me and blew it, a number of times. The locals can go and get phucked. Can I make it any plainer?

I've looked at what's on the market and bugger me dead but the best combination of power, economy, features and space which fits the budget and is not a truck is the....bloody VW Passat Wagon - in V6 FSI Highline spec to be precise. Good bit of fruit, AWD, decent cargo area (bigger than that stoopid Bommodore thing) and although bland, doesn't sear the retinas too much. 184kW, 330Nm, 10.2L/100 combined and less than 1600kgs. Tough numbers to match for under 60 large.

Am I missing something out there that I should consider. After all, it may be a good thing but...but...as Mikey R has reminded me, it's a Passat for chrissakes! I need to be convinced there's no other option before one of them gets to sit in the Revolver driveway...I can feel the Revolvermobile shrinking in the garage already!

I did consider just trading in for a new Mazda 6 wagon but they only come with an auto and I have that old fashioned aversion to auto 4 potters. I'm worried we'll load it up to go somewhere and it won't move...very fast at all. It's also not AWD and as for towing the odd trailer, forget it.

Liberty, Outback - fall short on performance for the same money as the German and they're starting to frig around with a previously good simple package there with tricksy transmissions, etc that don't do what they say on the tin. As for the Forester - turning into a fat arsed truck and while I can cope with bland, I don't do ugly.

Whaddya reckon guys? Other options?

BTW, I'm happy to consider 2-3 year old second-handers within the price range, so feel free to suggest pre-loved alternatives...

(yes I know this is off topic but since we're back to talking oil and boring **** like that, I thought I'd change the subject a little)...

matt13b

I say a second hand R36 VW wagon.

MACCAA

Had a Passat R36 at Wakey today at the MRT Track Day.
It was actually quite a good thing.Owner had recently done a trip and averaged 9.7l/100k.....Was pretty reasonable on the track too[at least when John Smith drove it]
You could do a lot worse.
Cheers
Len

2SeeKU

iTrader: (1)

Passat?! Doesn't even have a sexy name....

EDIT:

Suggestions:

Subaru Forester (I've driven, l liked :S)

Subaru Liberty (Turbo to fix that "performance problem")

Call me crazy.. Holden Adventura (V8, 4WD, plenty of room... ok you can stick forks in your eyes now!)

I just don't like the Passat, Golf yes, but Passat...

SymSym

My wife has a Mercedes 320 CDI . Drives like a good sedan , has 510 nm of torque ( wish my RX8 had half of that) and gets 11-12l/100 km around town . Took us to the snow with two teenage kids fully loaded boot and roof box on top for all the ski gear and averaged 9l/100 k. Made it there and back on one tank. Great interior and smooth ride. Plus people get out of the way when you are driving it. You can pick up a second hand model in your price range and you will not be disappointed It is a great car.

rotarenvy

I like VW's. my mother has a eos and it is a great car and seems well made. I like the interiors and the fuel economy of the VW engines always seems good.

I would suggest looking at the liberty range if all wheel drive is something you need. I'd prefer a VW over a subaru. the liberties the dealer has always pushed on me seem nice but never really seem appropriate. ie a STI tuned family car?

retro

Function over form Dave...........it is going to be the workhorse.........whats in a name? Just check up on reliability and you're done............

Revolver

'Er Indoors won't appreciate the extra grunt of the R36 and I won't be driving it enough to care. Plus the ride around the 'burbs on Sydney's goat tracks isn't worth it.

They are a good thing tho...

Revolver

Forester doesn't pass the ugly test and I don't need tall, I need useable space.

I don't want or need a turbo family car. I've driven the Liberty - it's a weird tranny and you need to rev the crap out of it all the time. But for that I agree it's a good family car.

Adventura - no chance. Let me count the ways - thirsty, ugly, stopgap engineering, poor reliability, rep mobile in hiking boots.............and it's a shitty Holden with all the shitty things that come with that...

Revolver

Thanks. I did consider a 2nd hand X5 or ML but they're a bit too truck like for me and don't pass the Revolver weight watchers' test. I'm also concerned about economy because so much of its life will be spent around town. And servicing costs???

I'll have a think though and check them out a bit more because most people who own them seem very happy with them...the 320 CDI would be the pick, I agree. Wifey would love a Merc too, I must admit...

Revolver

Agreed. I don't want some highly tuned family car, which is where you need to go in the Liberty range to match the Passat's V6. Apart from insurance and theft issues, I worry about reliability for something that will be used and abused by a non-car enthusiast most of the time. Simple is better. Plus the ride tradeoff in the GT and STI versions isn't good when loaded up...

Revolver

You're right but the boring nerd image grates...so I thought I'd see if there's something else I'm missing.

As for reliability, maybe I should see if some cardigan wearing owners are online somewhere talking about failures. However, it seems to be a pretty well sorted platform and widely used in the VW group.

Well, thanks guys. Anyone else have a view? I'm still pretty sold on the Passat as you can see but welcome other opinions...

labrat

Didn't I see that a new model Passat is to be released soon? Looks less, well Passat than the current model. Could be well worth waiting for. My business partner drives a diesel Passat. Sounds like a bag of shaken nuts and bolts in our work garage. He bores me with the fuel ecomoy thing, then goes and buys a Mazda CX-9 for his wife, so go figure.

However, I do agree with the concept of a Euro wagon over a SUV truck. That's what you see famiies in Europe driving. I'm prepared to get flamed, but how about a Skoda wagon? VW drive train, made in the Czech Republic, well equipped, nicely priced.

timbo

Oh dear, Dave....see, you can take the ****, but eventually the logic gets you..and it all becomes so obvious.....

Actually, labrat has a point

...so flame us both. This is the family wagon, right...some camping, lugging and loading...driven mostly by the wife, right? Octavia RSd wagon would be my pick, but if you really want AWD, get the Scout. Yes...absolutely a diesel. It's torque you want, and these things are stonking...and if there's not enough, another $1k gets you around 20% more

Go test drive THEN be judgmental. Yes, you'll probably take a depreciation hit, but then any wagon will, for the use you've described. And if Skoda Aust folds, it's still a VW.

Another alternative worth considering is a low km used Audi All-Road, but I'm thinking you're too proud....

Revolver

I didn't know a new Passat was coming out...I'll look into that. Thanks.

Hahaha, I love the irony of owning a diesel and a CX9 - what he saves with the bag of bolts might JUST stretch to the thirst of the ***** wagon.

I actually looked hard at the Skoda. They've had some great reviews and Skoda has come a long way in recent years since VW bought them. I agree they're very competitively priced but I figure I may as well go AWD if I'm going to go euro wagon...more versatile for camping and snow trips...

Revolver

There's taking the **** and then there's spending your own cash.

Yes, you're right about the intended uses. However the Scout is manual only and while it doesn't bother me, after 3 years of the manual 6, 'Er Indoors is hankering for a slushbox again.

However, I'll go test drive both the Octavia and Scout with her to compare them. She might be ok with the manual when I tell her the price difference!

As you say depreciation doesn't matter because it'll gradually get trashed anyways.

Hahaha, not too proud to consider the Audi but they have crap fuel consumption from memory. I'll check them out though...

timbo

look for an oiler

Revolver

Nothing newer than an '04 or '05 from what I could see, all petrol and over $40K for limited kms. Doubting the value for a 5 year old car that has no doubt copped some punishment.

And stop trying to live vicariously and buy yourself a diesel - you know you want to!

Checked some reviews on the Scout btw - most mention poor ride, which will **** me if I have to drive it too far on holidays...but will test drive one anyways and see what it's like. I'm also going to test drive the Liberty/Outback to see if the ordinary reviews are worth listening to.

There's a lot to be said for contraception...

timbo

In this category of vehicle, there will always be at least one reason not to buy anything, ie, this is going to be a compromise whatever you choose.

Actually, I wouldn't dismiss the Subies too early. They've become a bit fat, but they've always been fairly reliable. And the AWD is a requirement you are going to need to rationalise. If you want it, then you will be faced with decisions around some of the soft-roaders, like it or not.

timbo

Isn't the CX-7 coming/come in a diesel?
Also...(cough)...Volvo (some have awd)...near new?

Be aware that putting a towbar on some of the Euros can sometimes be challenging and expensive

Revolver

Agreed.

Yeah, I've put the Subies back on the short list for further investigation. I'm even considering the cheap option of getting a 2 yr old Liberty or Outback for a few years...use the money I save on something else...

Revolver

No diesel CX7 at this stage...and still too truck like for me. I don't get the high and tall thing...much prefer something closer to the ground.

A friend has one of the Volvo awds. Absolutely crap ride and handling and exxy compared to the competition...not even a starter.

Noted re: towbar fitment. Another reason why the Subies are back on the short list...not that I'll be towing much or heavy.

timbo

FWIW, one of my colleagues has one of the 6 cyl 3.0 Subaru Outbacks (2007). He's very happy with it, but says the auto transmission ratios are a bit funny 1st & 2nd too low. He also has the full sunroof thing -- and says that's a waste of money.

I've been in it a few times...interior seems quite small, despite the exterior size. Ride is a tad harsh, but then I'm comparing with essentially on-road cars

Revolver

Thanks. The feedback on the auto tranny matches what I've read and heard elsewhere, which is why I've been less than keen. I understand the 6 doesn't fee like it's got enough grunt down low and I don't want something I have to rev the ring out of just to get around.

And you know how I feel about sunroofs. Stoopid things.

The old man had a Liberty and then a Forester and I know what you mean about the interior space...the big pro though is that they're a popular, reliable choice with good resale.

As for ride, from what I can tell all the AWD soft roader things suffer a little from this type of thing.

I'm going to test drive the Skoda and Passat variants before making any decisions about the Subies...

timbo

Once upon a time, I recall someone extolling the virtues of the ...cough....Chrysler 300C