I think we discussed this before ages ago, but there are now more threads from the US relating to poor mpg.

It seems unless you drive like a granny, the mpg is fairly poor, and I intend to be visiting the warning buzzer on a regular basis once run in :D

US are getting as low as 13/14 mpg which in UK terms is 15.5/17 mpg. I would think that with mixed driving I will most likely average under 20mpg.

Us thread here.... http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8919&perpage=15&highlight=mileage&pagenumber=1

Im used to poor mpg anyway, and I dont mind if I am getting he performance. This remains a question until my test drive.

However I guess there are many people who are used to 25/30+ mpg in their current cars and Im wondering if people are prepared to make this sacrifice for the RX-8 and the rotary engine?

If the americans are concerned at their fuel prices, I would expect this will put off some people over here.

Yes, it does concern me as this is what one would expect from a heavy V6 or 12. In my TTC 225 which I red-line all the time I average 26 mpg.

I am presuming that we are all getting the 8 for its performance free reving engine (hence all the gripes about loss of hps) so we will all be suffering. As you said it all depends on how good the actual drive is.

rael

I currently have a Golf TDI (please don't abuse me)

It does around 50mpg so I suppose there is a slight concern about the difference in the two vehicles but FFS the RX-8 is a sports car so I can live with it.

I think someone hit the nail on the head when they mentioned Smiles per Mile.

Chris

For someone who does a daily commute of 138 miles mpg is now my major concern (since I've satisfied myself to a certain degree that my two big passengers will fit ok.) My last 2 cars have both been 0-60 under 7 secs and 145mph+ top speeds but I've never averaged worse than 28mpg. I think this is because my miles are predominantly on the motorway. When I put my deposit down I expected to own a car that I could average around 24mpg if I was in 'commute mode'. If it turns out to be significantly worse than that then I'll have to look at other options (but I don't want to do that.)

Yep , big problem here also.
I do 22K commuter miles.

My TypeR gets ~32MPG average (pretty damn good for a car of that performance).
I am actually expecting to be able to get 25 out of the RX8.
Most of my miles are on the M1 at 60mph, so I see no reason why not.

If it is significantly worse than this , I have a problem....

Well, not that my opinion should matter anyway, but I used to get 10-11mpg out of my -modified- TII, so anything above that is fine by me !! :D

However, I do agree that 15mpg is very bad mileage. Didnt Mazda claim around 23mpg while on the highway ? :o

Also have a 225 TT, and with a commute on the M4 from London to Bracknell, after 15k I am averaging 30.5 Mpg!

As has been said - I dont mind sacrificing economy for performance - but it better be as quick as the TT or I will be very peed off.

Bear in mind if we do end up averaging under the 20's you are dangerously into the territory of some very quick machinery...

I'm not quite sure...

I'm used to getting around 34mpg with most of my previous cars.

However, I'm not averse to driving a car with significantly worse mileage, as long as it's worthwhile. Having said that though, when you factor in fuel costs alongside the purchase price of the car you have to start looking at what else you could look at buying when looking at the long term costs of the car...

I'm buying a new car.

Depreciation costs are way more than any extra fuel costs will be.

I'm also buying a car to drive, so I wont baby it if I dont want to.

Originally posted by Edo

Bear in mind if we do end up averaging under the 20's you are dangerously into the territory of some very quick machinery...


Dangerously into? Dangerously past you mean!

The 996 Carrera manages mid-20s.. even the Tuscan will run in the mid to low 20's quite happily. On a motorway run it's more economical than the Polo thanks to the rediculously long gearing..


-andy-

I currently get 36mpg, cos I have a honda POS.

I wasn't going to consider anything that couldn't get 30mpg, as I do care about how often I have to fill up. Officially Mazda stated that 31mpg was possible on steady motorway driving, with a combined of around 25-26. That I can live with.
Less than 20 is a major no-no for me.

I am assuming that there has to be some correlation between the advertised fugures and what we actually get ?

For reference I have always been able to get the advertised figures out of every car that I have owned (i.e I can get 40mpg out of the honda if I drive like a granny, and 30mpg if I drive like an idiot, which is exactly the advertised range)

Originally posted by jimbobjoe

I am assuming that there has to be some correlation between the advertised fugures and what we actually get ?


Unfortuntely there's very little you can do about actual milage vs advertised figures from a legal standpoint. The manufacturer has a nice little loophole in that driving style affects the MPG and they can simply say that our driving style does not meet that required for the published figures. It's almost impossible to counteract that argument with any proof.
:(

Guys, remember that the advertised mileage is almost NEVER achievable thourgh normal means. This is measured with the engine on a test-bench, and NOT in a real car ;)

In direct contradiction with jimbobjoe, I have NEVER been able to match the advertised mileage of any of my cars. In most cases, I manage to get close to 75% of the advertised (like in, if 20mpg is advertised, I usually end up doing 15mpg) :eek:

Originally posted by The Ace
Guys, remember that the advertised mileage is almost NEVER achievable thourgh normal means. This is measured with the engine on a test-bench, and NOT in a real car ;)

In direct contradiction with jimbobjoe, I have NEVER been able to match the advertised mileage of any of my cars. In most cases, I manage to get close to 75% of the advertised (like in, if 20mpg is advertised, I usually end up doing 15mpg) :eek:

That's not true in all cases now. I was on a manufacturers website a few weeks ago and they were explaining how their MPG figures were established and it was using test tracks to simulate the different driving conditions. I remember a few years ago that there was a push by the government to get more realistic mpg figures so maybe this is why.

I think it was Honda's testing of the new Accord IIRC that I was reading about.

Well, in contradiction with you, The Ace, I've always achieved greater than specified economy in every car I've owned and I'm pretty heavy footed too.

My current car (Alfa 156 V6) has in my opinion a drinking problem. I do about 20-21 mpg with hard revving. If the RX-8 is worse, I will cancel my order.:mad:

Did anyone else notice the mpg figures from the recent AutoExpress group test? The new Alfa GTV 3.2 has an official combined figure of just over 21 mpg (i.e. 3 mpg worse than the RX-8). However, Autoexpress actually get worse test mpg from the RX-8.

Hello from Toronto:

Don't know if you still monitor this thread, but we have been getting terrible mileage with our 6spd GT. Combined city/highway commuting (25/75%) has been giving us an average of 16.5L/100km. I'm not sure what that is in mpg but I know it's bad and we pay just under $1 /L here. I shudder to think what it is costing you in Europe.

The mileage we are getting is exactly half of what was advertised. Mazda Canada and the dealer have told us that this normal for these cars and the mileage should improve by the time we reach 5000 km, but of course will not put this in writing.

The problem I have is not so much the extra cost of fuel for this car, but the lack of range. We are only getting 350 km per tank which is worse than anything I've ever owned and not great if you are exploring the great Canadian wilderness where gas stations are not as plentiful as let's say Europe.

To put this in perspective, when I use a Chevrolet Suburban with a 5.7L V8 gas engine to tow a 4000 kg boat I get better mileage than our RX8. And we have much better range as the truck holds 150L not 60L like the RX8.

My feeling is that Mazda has shipped this car to market before they have worked out the problems with the engine. Therefore after almost 2 months of ownership of a car we have grown to love we are sadly sending it back to Mazda to take advantage of their full money back offer. The missing HP I could care less about but the lack of range is a critical defect in this car. We are replacing it with an Infiniti (Nissan) G35 coupe which is more expensive but will cost half as much to operate, offers 280 verifiable HP, higher top speed, and many more options.

Well, although I did used to get a lot worse mileage in my -modified- TII, I guess I agree with westie :(

If you are getting half the advertised mileage, and since you said that the gas stations are a rarity up there in the open country, then I would say that returning the car is the most logical solution.....

I dont mind the extra cost (if the performance is there) but I would like at least 300miles on a full tank, motorway driving.

Dunno about Canada, but here I'd be cruising at 80-90mph for the best part of 280 miles quite frequently, I dont want to have to stop to fill up that often.

as long as it does the same as my Peugeot Boxer van which I'm currently using (about 20mpg around town) then I'll be happy .
I'm going to be able to go around corners as well!

MPG is a concern for me as well. I think if this was the only factor then it wouldn't as much of an issue, but the Autocar performance results, combined with a predicted 3yr loss of 52% make a sub 20 mpg average a little hard to swallow.

Don't get me wrong, the RX-8 still looks very tempting and I don't see anything else to be released soon that looks as good and offers 4 seats.

James

I wonder how many of the USA and Canadian owners have the aircon on constantly? I know that it has a noticeable affect on my MPG in my T5 and think that it's fairly common for americans to always have it switched on. Maybe with our more moderate climate we will see better MPG if we don't use the aircon 90% of the time.

Yes, I'm worried but I'm willing to wait and see what kind of millage I actually get.
Some of the figures being quote on the US forum are bad and seem quite extreme but it's impossible to tell what the persons driving style is, if the air con is on continually, etc and what affect the ECU changes for the US market have had.

My current car (BMW 318Ci) claims 36mpg from a mixed urban/ex-urban millage so if I'm down to the low 20's with the RX8, my wallet is going to be a bit thinner at the end of each month ;)

Yeah, I must admit that it worries me too.

But, you have to remember a US Gallon is 0.83 that of a UK Gallon.

so, 18mpg in the US would be 21.6mpg here.

also as Andy said the yanks are likely to run the AC a lot more. so more mpg and power for us most of the time.
Wish I had the option of no AC really. Usually an option of about £1200 on most cars.

I played with AC on or off in my TT, and found it made bugger all difference. After 17k miles pretty much always with climate control on, I am at just over 30MPG.

The initial lower cost of the RX over say an equivelant spec'd TT (about 4k) means I can cope with low 20's.

If it averages under 20 (with a gentle 60 miles on motorway every work day) Mazda will be buying it back off me!!!

In a way (and don't take this wrong - I like the RX8!!!) I wish there was a 'normal, non rotary' engine option for the RX8, e.g. 0-60 in 8 secs or so, decent mpg, some engine from a Mazda 6 etc and the combination of the good looks and design would make a mass market seller. My main sticking point regarding the car is the fact it's a 'thirsty rotary'! At the end of the day everybody would prefer to pay less money for petrol and that's my main sticking point!

Cheers all.
B.

Hi guys,
For what it's worth,
I have about 5500 km on my car (3400 miles) I can report that the gas mileage is getting better. Has been as low as 16-18 mpg (imperial btw) I still convert it, not used to litres per 100 km.
My last tank was over 21 mpg. (Mixed city and highway)I drive the car relatively hard. Lots of runs up to 8-9000 rpm, and a few burn outs as well!

I'd suggest that most of you will drive the car the same way, it's too hard not to, soooo sweet!

Any how I hope this helps.

beavis -

Well , I am the opposite to you I am afraid.
Without the rotary , there would be no RX8.
Only the compact size and positioning makes this possible.

For me , I have been following the development for years and it is because I have always wanted another rotary. When the RX8 price was announced that was it. A new rotary , and it looks pretty good too - sold.

If the RX8 were piston powered , I would not have even considered it. I mean it is pretty and all , but without the engine the magic would be gone. The looks alone are not enough for me - I want to drive it , not look at it all day.

It is not just you , many of the others seem to have similar misgivings - but what I would like to know is this.
Does anyone who has prviously owned a rotary have any misgivings about the engine at all ? I suspect the answer is 'No'. They just cannot wait for another one ! !

If there was no rotary engine under the hood, there literally wasnt going to be a "RX8", because the name itself contains the "Rotary" word ;)

It could be a "PX8", as in "Piston eXperiment" :o

Mr Morgan - I have never driven a car with a rotary engine but would buy the 8 if it had a normal engine because I love the shape, 4 seats, price etc. The engine is a mystery to me and most new buyers but you, others rotaryheads and the media have good things to say so I am willing to take a chance.

It is however a bit worrying that Mazda alone are going along the rotary route and both mpg and oil usage sound excessive.

Whats the worse that can happen?

rael

Interesting discussion and Rael, I completely agree and think Mazda would have sold even more cars if it wasn't a rotary as the look, price and concept is so good with little or no alternatives in the market. The only car I'm comparing it against is the TT which I believe you own and that's where my main sticking point is as the TT seems quite economical for such a fast car and as I have said previously, everybody wants to spend less on petrol (especially after the recent announcements this week on petrol rises!).

Will probably make my mind up when I see an RX8 in the flesh and eventually get to drive it!

Cheers all

B.

Not buying the car for its MPG, if I were, I probably wouldn't be buying it in the first place.

Cheers
Oilman

Oilman - Presumably you have a 'deal' with your local garage considering you are in the same sector.

I am getting high 20's out of my TTC 225 and that is driving on mixed roads and quite hard. For a sports car (and I realise there are many TT bashers on this site) it does great mpg plus 4WD.

My XJS 3.6 did about 15-18 mph but that was one big heavy luxurious cruiser.

I do believe the mpg is a major negative which will impact on sales, all depends if the other positives can override this.

rael

Rael - side issue here....have you had any problems with the TT? I've had a few people mention the recent reliability surveys..a little unfair as I suspect the majority are to do with the coil pack problems which should be sorted now. Are you changing to an RX8 for the extra seats at the back?

Cheers
B.

5p per gallon increase from 1st Oct.

Beavis - No problem at all except for the coil pack. Had first service yesterday after 18 month and 13k miles, cost £275 all in.

Changing because I always preferred the look of the 8 even when I ordered the TTC in July 2001 (delivery March 2002), 4 seats now more important but also I think the TTC has obtained a negative image and it's no longer the car I was once very proud of. Also, because of the eye-catching shape there seems to be more on the roads than there actually are.

But the 8 will have to go some to beat the TTC which I always found fun to drive and still look forward to getting into each morning.

rael

Hello again from Toronto:

Read your discussion after my post. My main concern is the range of the car. I don't think it's acceptable for a modern car to have a sub-400km (240mile) range. As I said I get the same mileage with the Suburban towing the boat but it can go 1000km (600miles) on a tank of cheaper regular 87 octane gas. Of course, I don't tow a boat back and forth to work every day and I don't want to spend every other day at the gas station. There was also the matter of the lack of available rims and snow tires, and the missing block heater for our Canadian winters.

In answer to Murphy in Glasgow, the mileage is the same whether we use the A/C or open the windows and sunroof. It's also only marginally better if I drive it like a granny. I figured out the conversion for the metrically challenged. As I stated we are averaging 16.5L/100km which works out to 17.1mpg imperial or 14.25mpg american. I'm sure you'll all agree that is not acceptable in this day and age no matter how much you like the car. When we were presented with the buy back offer, our acceptance seemed a matter of common sense.:cool:

By the way I gave the dealer opportunities to fix the problem. I realized from the beginning that the soot at the tailpipe was telling me the car was running rich. The dealer doesn't know why, but suspects the ECU's were changed at the port of Vancouver due to emissions problems. There was an unexplained 1 week delay after they landed. They can't fix it because they haven't had a technical bulletin and if they replace the ECU it contains the same program as the original.

I discussed the buyback with the Mazda Canada executive in charge of the program and he told me they realize that all the Canadian cars are running rich and it has been reported to Japan. He assumes they will write a new program for the ECU but it will take 8-12 months to implement due to the various goverment emission issues, etc. This also explains where the missing HP has gone. There seems to be a pretty clear link in my mind.

Like I said it would foolish not to take the buyback and complain for the next year about the mileage.

Good luck to all of you, I will continue to follow the forum while we enjoy this new Infiniti G35 coupe which I believe is the Nissan Skyline in Japan and other markets.

Well guys, here in Canada we had until Oct 1 to advise Mazda whether we wanted "hush money" ($500 and free service) or a full refund of the purchase price (in our case $48,780 CAD). Since they haven't been able to provide a good reason for the incredibly poor MPG we reluctantly told them to take the car and give us our money back. Too bad because we grew to love the car after only 2 months of ownership. On a positive note however, better to have loved and lost, than never to have..........The good news is that it's apparently going to take them another 2-3 weeks to figure out when to take the cars back so we continue to drive this great car for free whilst we delay picking up the new car we ordered from the Nissan/Infiniti dealer.

For those of you interested try monitoring our forum in Canada, we have one member, canzoomer, who has decided to keep his 8 and has turned it into a project to develop a chip to increase HP and MPG. Last I saw he had already found an extra 24HP and he may market something through his company.

Things we noticed on our Hi-Power 6 spd and to watch for when you finally get your 8's

1. Oil Consumption- 1L per 2000KM
2. Fuel Consumption- combined city/highway (30/70) 16L/100KM or 17 MPG Imperial
3. Leaking gaskets and stress fractures front and back lights allow moisture inside lenses
4. Oil light comes on at high speed (above 130km/h) due to faulty baffle design
5. Aircon problems-when heater is set to "feet" only with Aircon button off (ie. to introduce fresh outside air to car) Aircon compressor turns on and cycles anyway with Aircon light out. No way to bring fresh air to feet without Aircon coming on!
6. No frost plug on engine or way to install block heater (for colder climates)
7. Hard to find steel rims and snow tires.

Anyway, good luck with your cars when you finally get them. I thought you all might appreciate a report from the field so to speak.

Westie in Toronto

Now I am worried.

One more thing I neglected to mention, after reading some of the US threads re MPG we tried using several tanks of unleaded regular 87 octane gasoline but encountered even worse mileage than we got using super 91 octane or premium 94 octane gas. I read somewhere that this has to do with the ECU settings.

Westie

Wonder if its worth approaching Mazda on this issue. If we buy the car and the mpg is half that advertised can we return the car or is this information now in the public domain and we therefore should know better.

Some scary information out there. The drive better be worth it especially as I may have sold my TTC a test drive is possible.

rael

The drive is worth it. I dont mind getting low 20's, but with my commute on the M4, 20 or less, and they will be buying back under the trade's description act.

I have the UK spec document in front of me.

Uk 230Bhp;

Urban - 17.9
Extra - 31.7
Combined - 24.8

1. Oil Consumption- 1L per 2000KM
2. Fuel Consumption- combined city/highway (30/70) 16L/100KM or 17 MPG Imperial
3. Leaking gaskets and stress fractures front and back lights allow moisture inside lenses
4. Oil light comes on at high speed (above 130km/h) due to faulty baffle design
5. Aircon problems-when heater is set to "feet" only with Aircon button off (ie. to introduce fresh outside air to car) Aircon compressor turns on and cycles anyway with Aircon light out. No way to bring fresh air to feet without Aircon coming on!
6. No frost plug on engine or way to install block heater (for colder climates)
7. Hard to find steel rims and snow tires.

1. About right for this kind of car
2. A bit lower than I expected, but I'll live with that
3. Worries me, but should be covered under warranty
4. Fixed by Mazda already
5. Can't see why I'd want to do that
6. Doesn't matter here in the UK
7. Same as 6

So, not too worried really :)

Recent reviews I hace read where they have actually measured mpg rather than just go with mazda figures have come out low 20's which I don't think is too bad considering reviewers were probably lead footed. Makes you wonder if

a) us / canadian cars higher hp makes a difference to consumption
b) these guys have a problem with their cars...

Read a review of the new 3.2 Audi A3 the other day (which I was considering). Audi claim 27mpg, reviewers got 17... Ouch.

Originally posted by Edo
The drive is worth it. I dont mind getting low 20's, but with my commute on the M4, 20 or less, and they will be buying back under the trade's description act.

I have the UK spec document in front of me.

Uk 230Bhp;

Urban - 17.9
Extra - 31.7
Combined - 24.8
Mazda recently revised these figures upwards (see UK website). The new figures are:

Urban - 18.1
Extra - 32.5
Combined - 25.2

I guess they must be confident that the figures are correct if they are revising them upwards. The question is how this relates to everyday driving. If the test procedure doesn't involve much use of high revs it might not be very relevant to the RX-8.

Originally posted by ChrisW

Mazda recently revised these figures upwards (see UK website). The new figures are:

Urban - 18.1
Extra - 32.5
Combined - 25.2

I guess they must be confident that the figures are correct if they are revising them upwards. The question is how this relates to everyday driving. If the test procedure doesn't involve much use of high revs it might not be very relevant to the RX-8.

I noticed that last night when looking on the website. Seems strange they have slightly increased them though after the bad fuel reports in the US.....

Notes from overseas to those EC owners concerned about MPG:

some things you might want to consider while waiting to pick up your new Rx8's. Pay close attention to the MPG right off the bat. I think you on the right track Rael. See if you can get something in writing from Mazda UK or your dealer acknowledging that you are expecting mileage within a variance of say 10-20% of what they are publishing, especially now they have published revised numbers. If then the car can't achieve that, you then have the option of returning the car for a full refund after a reasonalble test period, say 30 days. This is probably not as hard as you think since Mazda has created a precedent in the US and Canada for full refunds, albeit for lack of HP. You must have some solicitors amongst your owners group, they might be able to offer advice. Personally, I would hold Mazda UK's feet to the fire on this issue, but from reading earlier posts you know where I stand on the MPG business.

BTW, now that it's getting colder here (0-10C) the MPG is getting worse, last tank was 14-15 MPG (imperial). That is without exceeding 5-6000 RPM and of course we know that's no fun! Lucky for us that Mazda is buying back the car within the next few weeks.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust Mazda now in regards to this issue. They have likely provided special cars for the goverment MPG testers and the car mag reviewers. I mean why not if they can get away with it? At the very least the renesis engines are not consistent in their build quality. There are too many of us getting very poor MPG for this to an isolated incident. Check the Aussie forum, some of them get poor MPG, so it's not limited to the US spec cars.

We KNOW there is something wrong with this car (and the others), but the most annoying thing is that they won't officially acknowledge that the mileage is poor. Their approach seems to be that the cars are being driven too hard. They won't even look at the engine again until it's broken in with more than 5,000KM. In our case with 4,800KM on it in almost 2 months, that would have taken us past the buy back deadline. Common sense then to turn it in and cash the cheque.

Some of your fellow owners seem to think it's crazy to expect good mileage out of a sports car and are willing to excuse this critical flaw in an otherwise outstanding car. This is not a 500HP Viper or a 6,000 lb. Bentley after all, but that's the kind of mileage we have put up with. They seem to think I am expecting VW Golf diesel kind of MPG. I am not, I am using Mazda's published MPG as my guide, and we are barely achieving half those numbers. This is clearly not acceptable and they don't seem to know the cause or how to fix it. Be relentless with Mazda and hold them to accounts. If gas prices continue to rise you will be very sorry.

Good Luck, Westie

Originally posted by jimbobjoe
I currently get 36mpg, cos I have a honda POS.

I wasn't going to consider anything that couldn't get 30mpg, as I do care about how often I have to fill up. Officially Mazda stated that 31mpg was possible on steady motorway driving, with a combined of around 25-26. That I can live with.
Less than 20 is a major no-no for me.

I am assuming that there has to be some correlation between the advertised fugures and what we actually get ?

For reference I have always been able to get the advertised figures out of every car that I have owned (i.e I can get 40mpg out of the honda if I drive like a granny, and 30mpg if I drive like an idiot, which is exactly the advertised range)

The advertised figures in the US are EPA figures on the sticker: 18-24 for high power, 18-25 for auto (we don't get the 5-speed). Many of us don't come close. Like you, I always matched or exceeded EPA highway figures. Not close so far (less than 2,000 miles) with my auto RX8, driven about the same way I drove my Acura GS-R and others. To be more specific, I recently filled up after about 170 miles on the road. The first half was done mostly with the cruise control on 80, a/c off, with a fair amount at speeds around 60 on slower roads. My estimate, based on the gas gauge, which has been consistent, was low 20s. On the way back, I drove mostly around 90, high 97, with more a/c, and redlined in first a couple of times. Overall, just short of 19 mpg. Temp in 70s, not humid.

I wasn't concerned - I am now Westie ! ! !

I am expecting 25mpg (imperial).
Sounds high I know , but I have achieved published figs from every car I have had , and this should be the same.

80% of my miles are at 60-80mph on the M1 , hardly stressfull....

I with you on this Morgan... I averaged 30Mpg in the 225 TT, over 20k - that was 50% motorway, and 50% everything else.

It's simple - the combined high power figure is 24 - with a commute on the M4 from west London to Bracknell every day, I'd better get over 20, or Mazda will be buying the car back - simple as that.

It seems important to get Mazda involved in this. I intend when purchasing to get their mpg figures confirmed and the keep a close tab as although the car is a beauty I cannot afford to spend that much money on gas using it every day. Especially as gas will nevr be cheap here, in fact the way the govt is taxing the driver it will become more expensive.

This may ruin a perfectly good car.

rael

I'm getting very spooked by this all of a sudden.:(

Can the 8 be converted to LPG ?????

AnilS.

I'm getting more and more concerned about this a d-day (delivery day!) looms larger. I do 138 miles a day and can't afford to get less than 22mpg. The problem as I see it is that I don't think we have any chance of getting Mazda to take the cars back if the MPG is poor. They dealer may offer to buy th car back but they will only give us part ex values on it.

I'd really like to see something in Mazda addressing our concerns on this issue, maybe one of the members with contacts (MarkW?) could emial them about this?

Why wouldnt they buy it back? They might take some convincing from a solicitor, but I can assure you if it is some way off what they sold it as, then they are going to buy back under the trades discription act.

I guess it depends on how you drive it.

If you want economy, dont go over 3k rpm type stuff.

But in the US/Canada, they stuffed the fuel map so it meets cali's emmisions (the CAT has to pass after 120000miles). So they ramped up fuel in low/high revs and leaned out the midrange.

From what canzoomer etc have seen, this is a quick fix which is likely not to have been done on the cars that were used to rate MPG in US.

The cars used for magazine testing were JDM 250bhp with 100octane fuel, not cali's 91 octane + US engine map.

Hopefully mazda have spent a little longer on our lowerpower fuel map that they did in the US, and this will show in fuel economy. Otherwise I may as well go for separate fuel/ignition control, engoy the extra HP and probably save fuel.

CHILL GUYS:cool: :cool: ;) ;)

Cheers
Oilman

Excuse oilman - he is in an RX8-test-drive-for-2-hours induced high.... (man!) :)

You should be able to get 22mpg (imperial) if you are highway cruising in 6th gear. I was able to get 25mpig doing that at 100Km/h (60mph) average speed on a 400Km trip. But any mixed city / highway driving will be cutting it really close to 22mpig.

If you don't redline the car and always drive in the 3000 rpm range you'll be fine. Also if it's not cold you'll be good.

Originally posted by Wing
I was able to get 25mpig doing that at 100Km/h (60mph) average speed on a 400Km trip. .

Surely you mean 100mph ? Thats what I always do....

No 100Km/h speed limit is 80.

Canada speed limits are rather dumb, as are the US frankly, NY state is 55mph on an interstate!

Canada is such a large country it makes no sense to travel at 60mph to cross it, takes too damn long!

At 100mph you won't be getting 22mpg or 20mpg or 18mpg.

Originally posted by Edo
Why wouldnt they buy it back? They might take some convincing from a solicitor, but I can assure you if it is some way off what they sold it as, then they are going to buy back under the trades discription act.

You can't quote the trades description act because they don't say that you will definitely get their published MPG regardless of how you drive the car. It is very difficult for us to prove that poor MPG is because of the car rather than how we are driving it. Unless you can prove that your RX8 can't get the published MPG then there is no way of forcing them to take the car back.


I'm hoping for at least 25MPG when motorway cruising at 80-90MPH and I think that should be a realistic expectation taking Mazda's published figures as a baseline (in fact I should get better using Mazda's figures but I'm being realistic!)

There was a car show, tried to reproduce MPG by adding just a gallon to the fuel tank and driving, as carefully as they could.

Cant remember the exact results but none of them done well.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
There was a car show, tried to reproduce MPG by adding just a gallon to the fuel tank and driving, as carefully as they could.

Cant remember the exact results but none of them done well.

It was Mike Brewer and the crew so must have been Driven. None of them got the published figures but IIRC they all got within 10-15% of the published figures.

Must ahve been a different one then, cause the one I saw, the best didnt get that close.

Was with old corsa type cars i think, 4-5 years ago?

Originally posted by Mitch Strickler


The advertised figures in the US are EPA figures on the sticker: 18-24 for high power, 18-25 for auto (we don't get the 5-speed). Many of us don't come close. Like you, I always matched or exceeded EPA highway figures. Not close so far (less than 2,000 miles) with my auto RX8, driven about the same way I drove my Acura GS-R and others. To be more specific, I recently filled up after about 170 miles on the road. The first half was done mostly with the cruise control on 80, a/c off, with a fair amount at speeds around 60 on slower roads. My estimate, based on the gas gauge, which has been consistent, was low 20s. On the way back, I drove mostly around 90, high 97, with more a/c, and redlined in first a couple of times. Overall, just short of 19 mpg. Temp in 70s, not humid.
Just to be clear, are these figures in US gallons? If so then I have to say they don't look too bad (multiply by 1.2 to get imperial mpg). Although as you say it doesn't match the official figures.

I'm in the US and so these are US figures. I've had my AT Winning Blue (GT package) RX8 since Aug 23. With 50/50 city/hiway I've been getting about 21+mpg.

I now have about 1500 miles on it. I took a 303 miles drive which took 12.5 USgallons to fill. That works out to 24+ mpg. It was 95% hiway driving with speeds mostly between 50 and 60mph with the tach at 2500rpm and the AC on. Most of the trip was on Canadian roads (a bit smoother than some in Washington).

Since the AT is "window stickered" at 18 to 25mpg, my RX8 seems to be right in there.

It seems that the consensus of those getting poor mpg is that the ECU may have been improperly set after being unloaded at port. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I've had no problems with mine.

Needless to say, I'm jazzed with my RX8. It's a head-turner where ever I go.

I think you guys should look at the mpg in Asia and particularly Australia rather than North America.

As RobDickinson said, we in the USA and Canada are unusual in having the ECU messed around with at the last minute for emmissions issues (apparently emissions have to be insanely low until the end of time over here) which caused the very rich mixture and probably has a huge impact on the lower than expected fuel economy. I have averaged 17.1mpg (US gallons) over 3000 miles, which is 2mpg worse than my huge 4400lb SUV that carries 7 and hits 0-60 in under 8 secs with it's 3.5 liter ULEV engine.

it's quite horrible.

im getting 15mpg on my first 2 tank of fillups.

and i am still breaking in the car = everything less than 3500!!

Quick.... someone post something positive on fuel consumption before I start looking at Audi A2's and rush out to hug a tree or two... :confused:

Had a quick survey on the Oz site and they seem to be getting between 12 - 14 l/100km, which comes to 20 - 23 mpg. Someone said they managed 10, so its possible to get better, and thats with reasonably fast driving. And they were using 95 octane fuel, same as here. I would guess thats what we can expect. I seem to remember Autocar averaged better than 23, and they can't drive.
JH

Looks like we'll get low 20's on average ... to be honest that what I expected anyway .....


Did anyone really expect much more?

erm........call me niave but yes, I'm expecting what the manufactures quote.

Combined (190) 26.2 mpg - (230) 24.8 mpg.

Why should we expect anything other:confused:

really cant understand why so many people on this list are so should i, shouldnt i, what if about this car. The fuel issues, are for me pretty much non issues. The Mazda figures claimed for the 8 WILL BE AS REAL as those claimed for any other vehicle. THEY are a representative guide ONLY, and i would only use them as indicative of what a particular vehicles potential is. Yes, u can possibly get more, much more generally expect slightly less. Our Vtec Honda dosnt get what Honda claims, and our Accord only got as much as our TII Rx7 when driven under similar conditions.

For me, if you are really that indecisive about a car, then why, oh why did u sign up so far ahead?. Why not wait and see it in teh flesh, and drive it before stomping up with the readies?. Me thinks many people who preordered just wanted the latest toy, and where looking more to be one up, rather than having any genuine desire or passion for what the 8 surely is, a great new choice in an over crowded market. I beleive it will do very well, and having owned 4 Rotary Mazdas, its none to soon to see the return of the Rotary in a great package.

Viva le Rotary!!

Cant speak for anyone else, but;

Every car I have owned has been close to the manufacturers claims for mileage. I didnt buy an RX8 for economy, but I expect it to be somewhere near the claims. Hopefully the economy of the European cars will not be as bad as those experienced by the US/Canadian folks.

I pre-orered the car on the expectation that it would be here July/August. That has slipped to November.

I think people are just pissed off with being messed about and constantly let down.

If the car is as good as it appeared in my brief test drive, I will be happy.

Mileage for me is not really an issue. This is really not the car to be buying if this is one of your major concerns.

Ive never got that close to getting advertised mileage on any car (heavy right foot :D), even when I had diesel company cars I was way off.

I would be pleased if I could average 20 or above from the RX-8, as this would be an improvement for me.

Cheers
Mark

The reason that I am in this state is the negative feedback from US owners.

I agree with you, mpg figures are a guide. BUT some US guys are getting HALF what mazda claimed.

I'll admit it, one of the reasons I ordered the car is that it will be rare on the road to start with, and I am willing to take some risk stumping up my cash upfront. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

If mpg turns out to be low 20's mpg combined as oposed to mazda claim of 25, I could live with that. If it turns out to be much less, then
a) mazda have lied and that will p*ss me off
b) Running costs will mean I can't enjoy the car so what's the point

It's not about seeing it in the flesh. It's about common sense.
Lets just say we DO get the mpg issue and we get e.g. 17mpg combined.

a) Running the car will be v expensive so I won't be able to drive it
b) residuals will be hit so selling will be bad news
i.e. once I've bought it, i'm stuffed.

I just want mazda to live up to their sales literature. With any other product this would be a given, why not with a car ?

Again, woudn't claim to speak for everyone here in the forum, especially since I am a relatively new member but..

There shouldn't be an issue with the fuel consumption but there seems to be in the US and Canada. Take a look at the main discussion forum and some of the MPG threads there - some people seem to be experiencing MPG far below the figures issued by Mazda in North America. - i.e. they are NOT AS REAL as those claimed for any other vehicle.
Hopefully, it wont be an issue here in the UK with our different ECU programming. We'll have to wait and see.

As for your "latest toy" and "looking to be one up" comments - well, I'll leave it to one of the members who "signed up so far ahead" and stumped up £1000 8 and 9 months ago and who have been well and truely messed about by Mazda UK with misinformation, no information and down right lies since, to put you straight on "desire and passion for what the 8 is" :p

Viva le Rotary indeed! - have you ordered one? :D

Originally posted by MarkW
Mileage for me is not really an issue. This is really not the car to be buying if this is one of your major concerns.

Ive never got that close to getting advertised mileage on any car (heavy right foot :D), even when I had diesel company cars I was way off.

I would be pleased if I could average 20 or above from the RX-8, as this would be an improvement for me.

Cheers
Mark


I'll second that. 20mpg or better will do, and i don't think that is unreasonable to expect. As far as I can tell, our ECU'swill not be played about last minute like the US/Canada ones, resulting in MPG chaos. Australian rx8s are similar in power, so a good measure and they seem to be getting low to mid 20's if you read enough posts.

Stu C

Originally posted by Stu C



I'll second that. 20mpg or better will do, and i don't think that is unreasonable to expect. As far as I can tell, our ECU'swill not be played about last minute like the US/Canada ones, resulting in MPG chaos. Australian rx8s are similar in power, so a good measure and they seem to be getting low to mid 20's if you read enough posts.

Stu C

tell you the truth i would be more than happy if i got 20mpg.

im getting 14~15, and that's driving very conservatively. there is a problem.

Originally posted by 787B
For me, if you are really that indecisive about a car, then why, oh why did u sign up so far ahead?. Why not wait and see it in teh flesh, and drive it before stomping up with the readies?.
Because the deposit was refundable, and we still got to drive the car before we committed to buy. What have we got to lose? And if we like it we get it quicker than if we had waited.

It seems the guys in the US/Canada have been hit by a double whammy - both the fuel economy AND power are less than they expected. That makes it harder to justify the fuel consumption on the grounds that "it's a high performance sports car, what do you expect?"

We still don't know whether our cars will be the same as the US cars in this respect.

Originally posted by ChrisW
It seems the guys in the US/Canada have been hit by a double whammy - both the fuel economy AND power are less than they expected. That makes it harder to justify the fuel consumption on the grounds that "it's a high performance sports car, what do you expect?"

Whats worse is that the powers down because of the extra fuel consumption. Need to save that cat for 120,000miles :(

We , in Europe dont need that right now, even with Euro4 it only needs to last 63k miles. With tuning it shuld get past the spec 250bhp, but will probaby toast that cat before emmisions test.

Could someone explain to me why using extra fuel saves the cat ? Surely pumping more fuel through than is needed makes it burn dirtier ?

Thanks.

Exacltly, a dirtier burn means a cooler burn, it's the levels of heat that destroy the cat.

Originally posted by hairyfrog
Could someone explain to me why using extra fuel saves the cat ? Surely pumping more fuel through than is needed makes it burn dirtier ?

Thanks.

I dont understand it myself, but it appears to be all about airflow through the cat. At high rpm/airflow with a lean burn the cat gets to hot, more fuel = cooler cat = lives longer.

By some bizzare oddity this also means that in the mid range they need to have the fuel to lean (for max power). Leaner than the low RPM range.

May go some way to explaining the fuel problems, people who 'baby' it are using low RPM, and people who thrash it are using high RPM. Neither is good for fuel.

Midrange should be best for fuel with the US engine map.

Who knows what our map will be like?

My most recent (Canadian car) experience, just coming up on 4000miles, and I have consistently got 22-23 mpg (imperial). Mostly highway at 70 mph, but plenty of fast starts. (Getting roughly 400 kilometers per 50 litre fill.)

My last tank I tried to keep the revs between 4k & 6k, to take advantage of the 'lean secondaries', but it meant driving in 5th rather than top, and the net result was 20 mpg.....

But it sure was fun!
.
.
.
doc

Doctorr,

Is that your own oil well, a requisate part of RX8 ownership?

Chris

I think he's showing us the oil well that needs to be sold in order that he can afford the accessories hehehe

If you look closely you can see a pipe going directly from the well to the fuel cap...

Wonder how long the pipe is, at least 1/4 mile I bet :)

Whilst speaking to my dealer this afternoon, and imploring him to update himself on wahts going on in the forum, he informed me that Mazda have revised their MPG figures for the 8. Wait for it, in the upward direction.

Yup, you heard right. We are to expect small % increses in all figures, although I did'nt get the figures, they are to be broadcast by Mazda shortly.

Don't hold your breath though.

AnilS.

if this cars fuel consumption is so critical for people, with some posters claimimg Mazda has misrepresented the cars fuel consumption, i really think you shouldnt wait for a test drive. Just cancel and go get what it is that will satisfy your cravings. Once you drive the car, you wont want to change it:-)

At worst, your driving style will be the biggest contributer to your vehicles REAL world figures. Mazda has nothing to gain by overhyping the MPG, and it is my understanding that they are performed to a strict regime of conditions to enable them to have some relevance for teh average punter.

Now, its another matter entirely how close we all get to matching them. Again, in my opinon the claimed MPG figures are seldomn achieved in the real world, and can be out by between 5 and 45%.

Having owned 4 Rotary Mazdas, i can only say that thre is nothing else that comes close, and in my experiance the minimal differance in like for like fuel consumption with a piston engine is more than made up with the smiles per miles i get when i am driving my Rx.


Happy Rotoring!

Originally posted by AnilS
Whilst speaking to my dealer this afternoon, and imploring him to update himself on wahts going on in the forum, he informed me that Mazda have revised their MPG figures for the 8. Wait for it, in the upward direction.

Yup, you heard right. We are to expect small % increses in all figures, although I did'nt get the figures, they are to be broadcast by Mazda shortly.

Don't hold your breath though.

AnilS.

AnilS,

They increased the figures a small amount in September. Its on an earlier page on this thread.

http://www.rx-8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9891&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

I would think that this is the increase he as talking about, unless they are going to increase them twice which is hard to believe.

Cheers
Mark

what was the final result?

FE figures from official test cycles mean very little. I never managed to reproduce them, even with diesel cars.
To follow the emission/FE drive cycle, car manufacturers use 'robots' or very well trained operators. There is no way you're going to see these numbers in real life. Especially with a sporty car as you tend to drive it well outside the drive cycle's speeds and loads.

Nevertheless, real life FE of the RX8 is a bit disappointing compared to performance. I've owned other more powerful cars (Ausi S2, Boxster) returning much much better FE at steady motorway pace. It seems this engine is very unefficient at low engine loads. Is it the shape of the combustion chamber.

The only fix (illegal!) would be to make it run slightly lean at part throttle. It should be possible to do so while retaining close loop operation as the ECM uses a linear UEGO sensor for AFR feedback. I've always wanted to do this on my previous car, because running stoich is highly unefficient, excepted for the catalyst of course!

in a word; NO. Whilst economy is not the Rx 8s strongest feature, its fuel economy, when driven "like for like" WITH cars of similar performance, is in my experiance, within 5-10% of similar performing piston engines, and the total driving experiance makes it a total NO Brainer, a sthe 8s rotary is sublime.

No disrespect, but if your ability to buy gas is so marginal that the difference between 18, and 22MPG constitutes not being able/wanting to run a 8, i would, again, respectfully, susggest buying a car that runs 40MPG+.

I have 2 cars now, a 323 diesel which is very economical, and my Mazda speed RX8! I only drive rx8 at weekends, if u want something cheap then buy a diesel, otherwise quit complaining, my car is great goes like a rocket and handles very well, it s not a everyday car!!!!

This forum is the worst possible thing to happen, i really thought about getting rid of my 8, because of comments made by people, its your choice, no one elses!