My brother just got a WRX and it is almost impossible to drive in stop and go traffic in the hilly terrain of Austin, TX.

The car idles at a non-existant 500 RPM and it doesn't like to move from that point. Even putting the clutch in and reving the engine as hard as you can, it takes about 2 seconds to get from idle to redline.

I have never driven a car with such turbo-lag. It will be quick if you drive it like you hate it, but for around town, it is a dog.

At one uphill stop light, I had to use the hand brake to get the car rolling properly. It was impossible to move my foot from the brake to the gas without rocking back too far or stalling out the car. I had to engage the hand brake, move my foot to the gas, rev the engine, and then start to release the clutch and the hand brake.

My brother wanted the wagon so he got the base WRX but my god did he pay the penalty over getting the STI.

The STI is much better IMO, but then again I have never driven it in the hills of Austin, San Fransisco, etc.

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by MrWigggles
At one uphill stop light, I had to use the hand brake to get the car rolling properly. I had to engage the hand brake, move my foot to the gas, rev the engine, and then start to release the clutch and the hand brake.Funny, that's how I was taught to do a hill start. I believe failing to use the handbrake in a hill start will get you a big fat F in the British licence test, and it'll certainly cost you marks in an Australian test.

Yep. The regular WRX was the first turbo-charged car I ever drove (test drive) and it was very unpleasant because of the lag. The salesguy had 40 in stock and was offering them at invoice, sadly he wouldn't let me test-drive the STi that I really wanted to check out. A few minutes afterwards I drove an EVO - so different, so much better, it proved to me that not all turbo cars have crazy lag.

Originally posted by eccles
Funny, that's how I was taught to do a hill start. I believe failing to use the handbrake in a hill start will get you a big fat F in the British licence test, and it'll certainly cost you marks in an Australian test.

Yup - folks gave me all kinds of strange looks when I used the handbrake all the time over here, even on pretty minor grades. It got to be a bit of a habit.

The "hill-start" (using the handbrake) is a required part of the Aussie driving test and (IMO) should be something more people do.... certainly better than riding the clutch when you're on an incline. Although for cars with foot-operated brakes I never did quite figure out how you'd easily use that to do a hill-start.

Simon.

The car has far less lag than most turbo cars you will ever drive, and I've driven a lot of them and owned a few including a DSM. You really have to know how to drive an AWD turbo car in order to get to most out of it, and judging from your description you've got a little learning to do. The lag is also greatly reduced by swapping out the uppipe for $150, and even further reduced with a downpipe for $300. Did you maybe have the AC on because it makes a big difference, as does temperature. There's a couple pretty big hills on the route I take away from my house every day and can chirp the tires without rocking back. If you're ever in Milwaukee look me up and I'll show you what a dog your RX-8 is around town :D

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The car has far less lag than most turbo cars you will ever drive, and I've driven a lot of them and owned a few including a DSM. You really have to know how to drive an AWD turbo car in order to get to most out of it

:confused: Calling BS on this one - I've driven several Audis, with both the 1.8T and 2.7T engines, and neither drivetrain (5 or 6 spd manual AWD) required any special driving techniques or had any problems moving from a stop. No lag issues such as have been reported with the WRX by many of the major magazines. From most reports, the WRX does suffer from more lag than most turbo cars currently on the market.

Regards,
Gordon

IKE,

I didn't say you couldn't drive the WRX hard and fast. I said it is hard to drive it normal.

And if it has average turbo lag then I must only be driving well refined turbo cars.

Oh thanks for the tip. I'll remember to turn the A/C off at stop lights from now on.

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by pelucidor
Yep. The regular WRX was the first turbo-charged car I ever drove (test drive) and it was very unpleasant because of the lag. The salesguy had 40 in stock and was offering them at invoice, sadly he wouldn't let me test-drive the STi that I really wanted to check out. A few minutes afterwards I drove an EVO - so different, so much better, it proved to me that not all turbo cars have crazy lag.

Quick question, did you find the S2K to suffer from VTEC lag? Certainly with the variable valve timing, the torque curve is pretty flat at low revs, but there is still a jeckyl and hide like on/off power band. Certainly, its more optimal to have the power at lower revs (in addition to higher revs), but I find a powerband with some on/off charateristics to be quite fun (though to an extreme - i.e. Celica GTS - its not good).

I had other issues with the WRX (body roll, gearbox), but still think its an excellent buy and have convinced my friend to get one. Unfortunatley, he is trying to learn stick on my Escort (looks like that clutch purchase is going to come soon!).

Should be ways to help that lag, like Ike suggested, but the little things can only take you so far...


Funny, that's how I was taught to do a hill start. I believe failing to use the handbrake in a hill start will get you a big fat F in the British licence test, and it'll certainly cost you marks in an Australian test.


Does the amount of stress the e-brake will take off the clutch for that 0.1 second really amount up over time on most cars? I'm kind of surprised at how long the OEM clutches have lasted in my manuals - I've treated them with comfort over longevity in mind (ie, slipping on hills in rush hour instead of using normal brakes to remain stationary, few other things), thinking that I'd have to replace them soon anyway around the 100k mark...but the oem clutch on my integra was still alright at 120k and the more torquey maxima's is still grabbing at 105k (though I think the t/o bearing is shot).

Replacing slightly above 100k for an OEM clutch isn't too bad for me, but I suppose if you're anal about clutch wear you could make the same clutch last longer - just how much longer and at the expense of small comforts would be what I'd ponder.

Isn't it a no-no to neutral drop as far as the UK/etc is concerned as well? I have issues with that one :)

Does the Heel to Toe down shift work in situations suchs a being on a hill...... never tried it but it seems possible?

And i never pull the handbrake, i always just let the clutch out to the point that it will keep the car still then just gas and go takes about .5 sec. Is that still considered riding the clutch?

I had high expectations of the WRX performance and fully expected to be blown away by it, but when I took one for a test drive I ended up opening the hood to make sure they'd put the right engine in there. Sure enough they did. I'm not sure it was lag I was experiencing because I never felt the turbo spool up at all. I found that the car had to be thrashed to extract meaningful performance. My RX-8 test drive on the other hand had me grinning right from the start and that was without really trying. The performance felt more accessible. Now, before you WRXers start fuming, I fully expect that in the right hands the WRX performance could be exploited to good effect and probably would embarrass the RX-8. The thing is that these are two very different types of car and people will buy them for different reasons. We can all argue about which is "best" but it's really a pointless exercise, especially if you chose your car for reasons other than 1/4 mile racing.

Buy the car you like best and enjoy driving it!

Heel and toeing will work, but just knowing how to drive a MT well will be more than enough. Bogging and having to use the emergency brake... that's just silly. You do have to flog the WRX more than other cars to get the umph out of it, but that also translates into a very daily driveable when stock or heavily modded car, that feels pretty low key when you need it to. The lag on this car is less than my Talon TSI and less than the 3000GT and some of the other better turbo cars out there.

As for the Audis, I had an A4 1.8T in my driveway for 3 years, I'm pretty sure I know how they drive... Does it have a lot of turbo lag, not really. Does it even feel like it has a turbo, sometimes... It was pretty gutless and overly refined for my taste, the tranny was to smooth and lifeless, and the clutch felt like something a grandma would love. Overall I liked the car, but fun to drive factor is way down compared to the WRX.


Ike

I had an opportunity to test drive a WRX wagon and I walked away impressed. It was my first experience with an AWD vehicle with a turbo tuned for performance instead of drivability (like a Passat). Turbocharging is an art of compromise. Building one for performance is certainly different that building one for drivability. The drivability applications usually have small turbos that spool up very quickly but provide modest levels of boost. This is good for better low rpm response. Bigger turbos that produce more boost need more exhaust airflow to get into their efficient range.

The WRX I drove didn't feel especially strong coming off idle, but it was more torquey than I expected. It certainly seemed to have more guts than most other 4 cylinder motors. Once the motor was up to speed, it was very drivable and very linear, no really sharp power spikes like I was expecting. The RX-8's motor is not strong off idle either, but we don't spend much time down there anyway, right?:D

No motor is perfect everywhere, all of that clever engineering is the mechanical application of compromise. I like WRX's, I think they are superb packages. They sound great, have a gutsy motor that has a wide usability range and AWD. It would take me some getting used to, but heck, I'm still getting used to the RX-8.

I'll admit, I've stalled it. Once. That's all I'm fessing up to.

Cheers,

Monkey