I did a quick search and didn't find anything related this possible recall, so I appologize if this is a repost.

I only get a preview of the news, so I don't have access to the full artitcle, but this is what Automotive News says:


"Mazda expects to recall RX-8s
Automaker: Engines failing vacuum test must be replaced
After suffering a black eye from disclosing that it won't count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores, Mazda says it may have to replace the engines in many of its flagship sports cars."
Automotive News


Autoblog report on recall http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/24/mazda-to-recall-the-rx-8/

mod edit autobytel video news with recall story http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/channels/index.cfm/channel/cartv_video/action/showvideo/vid/n_0146/vcat/News/pagenum/1?s_prefs=h&vid=n_0146&vcat=News

from Automotive news

RX-8 engine problems go round and round

Edward Lapham | | Automotive News / August 24, 2006 - 11:51 am




Advertisement

The much-anticipated recall of Mazda RX-8s to replace faulty rotary engines will be a mixed bag for dealers and owners.

There's the whole question of sincerity. Since the problem dates back to 2004 models -- as documented by owner and dealer complaints -- you have to wonder what took so long.

What did Mazda engineers know, and when did they know it?

You would think it's obvious when engine oil leaks are destroying a car's catalyst, especially since the integrity of engine seals has been an issue for rotary engines dating back to the days of Felix Wankel.

By the time Mazda's brass ruled that dealers wouldn't be marked down on customer-satisfaction surveys because of bellyaching by RX-8 owners, there was no alternative.

Still, Mazda execs seem to have responded marginally better than their counterparts at Toyota, who immediately blamed the customer for engine sludge problems that put 3.3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles at risk for engine failure. Toyota extended engine warranties under certain circumstances, while Mazda will replace any engine that fails a vacuum test at the dealership.

Way to bond

Dealing with issues in a timely, forthright and equitable manner is a good way to bond with customers.

Remember when hundreds of early Saturn engines were ruined at the factory because of bad antifreeze? If the engine was bad, Saturn replaced the whole car. It became a case study -- as well as something of a legend -- for over-the-top customer relationships.

But face it, the RX-8 is not some milquetoast sedan. No, the RX-8 is a powerful, throbbing sports car that's propelled by the wondrous Wankel engine. RX-8s are owned and driven by enthusiasts, not by simple consumers who hate cars but like to be treated well at the dealership.

So what?

Here's the issue: Many enthusiasts, especially collectors, like to keep their cars original, making sure that all the numbers match. That pretty much is ruined if you start yanking engines and replacing them willy-nilly.

Worse, Mazda says it intends to rebuild the faulty engines and put them back in service.

Heartache on horizon

Can you imagine the heartache that will cause when collectors want to sell their cars or just prove their pedigrees?

The written descriptions saying that the numbers match will need an asterisk, just like the home-run totals of Roger Maris, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds.

Mazda may find out that it's one thing to want to make things right with your owners and quite another to accomplish it.

After all, even RX-8 drivers know which road is paved with good intentions.

You may e-mail Edward Lapham at elapham@crain.com

sweet find t rex. is there a link that i can read aobut it?

Your Source?

Yes, source please.

I get a weekly update through email from a publication called Automotive News (http://www.autonews.com/) I costs $100 + to join. I don't own a subscription so I can't see the full article. What I posted is all I got on the email

can you scann it :P joking, ok thanks man. but very interesting indeed.

Here's the teaser...http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=AMERICAS
bout half way down the page.

gotta have a subscription to read the rest.

Or go to http://www.autonews.com/ and do a search for: "Mazda expects to recall RX-8s". You should see what I originally posted. At least you'll see that I'm not making this up. If you want to read the article, you'll have to subscribe

They're having a free trial this week... here's the article.


MONTEREY, Calif. -- After suffering a black eye from disclosing that it won't count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores, Mazda says it may have to replace the engines in many of its flagship sports cars.

The voluntary recall of all 2004 and 2005 vehicles, and some 2006s, is expected to be announced this week or next. It involves damage to the catalyst resulting from oil leaks in the RX-8's rotary engine.

Any engine that does not pass a vacuum test must be replaced, said Robert Davis, head of product development and quality at Mazda North American Operations.

Engines prone to failing the test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils.

Mazda also will check each RX-8's battery and starter, which tend to fail in cold climates.

"We're going to give these cars the white-glove treatment," Davis said. "We would rather replace the engine than have the dealer crack them open."

Davis would not disclose the projected failure rate of the engines or the cost to replace them.

Mazda has a remanufacturing center in North Carolina that will rebuild faulty engines and return them to service.

The recall comes after a video Webcast by two dealers who attended the July 11-13 National Dealer Advisory Council meetings in Newport Beach, Calif., was leaked on the Internet.

In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda informed the dealers that RX-8 owners would continue to be surveyed, but that the responses would not factor into dealer customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda has issued service bulletins on such trouble spots as squeaky brakes and engine flooding.

This is the link to Automobile News about a possible recall.

I was made aware of the content by a friend in the business. It isn't good.

This link will only take you to the link and teaser.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/search?Category=SEARCH

Search for Mazda RX-8

RevTo9K: Thanks dude

No shit!? I haven't had any problems with the motor yet (knock on wood) but I certainly wouldn't mind taking the car in to have a vacuum test + "white glove treatment".

Text

Mazda expects to recall RX-8s
Automaker: Engines failing vacuum test must be replaced

queryvar="mazda,expects,to,recall,rx-8s"; Mark Rechtin | | Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am











--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advertisement
document.write ('');


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MONTEREY, Calif. -- After suffering a black eye from disclosing that it won't count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores, Mazda says it may have to replace the engines in many of its flagship sports cars.

The voluntary recall of all 2004 and 2005 vehicles, and some 2006s, is expected to be announced this week or next. It involves damage to the catalyst resulting from oil leaks in the RX-8's rotary engine.

Any engine that does not pass a vacuum test must be replaced, said Robert Davis, head of product development and quality at Mazda North American Operations.

Engines prone to failing the test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils.

Mazda also will check each RX-8's battery and starter, which tend to fail in cold climates.

"We're going to give these cars the white-glove treatment," Davis said. "We would rather replace the engine than have the dealer crack them open."

Davis would not disclose the projected failure rate of the engines or the cost to replace them.

Mazda has a remanufacturing center in North Carolina that will rebuild faulty engines and return them to service.

The recall comes after a video Webcast by two dealers who attended the July 11-13 National Dealer Advisory Council meetings in Newport Beach, Calif., was leaked on the Internet.

In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda informed the dealers that RX-8 owners would continue to be surveyed, but that the responses would not factor into dealer customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda has issued service bulletins on such trouble spots as squeaky brakes and engine flooding.

This is nice to hear. Thanks RevTo9K for posting the article.

Engines prone to failing the test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils.


oh boy here we go again

oh boy here we go againI can read the argument already, lol.

guess i should start using synthetic before my warranty runs out.

RevTo9K: Thanks dude

Youre welcome, and most importantly thank you for pointing it out. This is sorta huge. I guess I should have taken Jeremy's statement more seriously when he said we didn't know the whole story.

Nice find.

I think they should give us all new ones. Mine's been in the shop no less than 15 times for check engine light (3 times - 2 min after purchase), airbag light (3 times), auto leveling headlight malfunction (4 times - still comes on), TPS light, Starter/battery, "flooded", . . . .

Engine replacements??!?!!?11 ZOMG! I wonder if I have a shot at replacing my intake manifold to get rid of my marbles!

Vacuum test as in compression test?

Engines prone to failing the test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils.

DUN DUN DUN

guess i should start using synthetic before my warranty runs out.

Hmm....good idea.

REPOST:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1491578#post1491578

Repost, let's not have seperate threads for the sake of not having seperate threads and stuff

I'm not going to freak out quite yet, but I'm glad they are handling the situation the way they are. With the dealers out of the equation you know the engines are being handled by people who know what they are doing.

The longer term issue is the bad press (again) for the rotary in general. What kills me is that it isn't the engines as much as the auxillaries that are causing the issues.

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how. It probably goes back to why Yamamoto-san told me that he doesn't like all synthetics, specifically Mobil 1 (the most widely used synthetic in the world), while some such as Royal Purple, Valvoline, and Idemitsu are fine. I personally see this as just an excuse to get around the issue at hand and will continue to use synthetics in my car. Remember I use them in a 13B which Mazda specifically says not to use synthetics in due to potential issues with rubber seals. After several years, I am prooud to say that on Royap Purple, I have had no issues.

I wonder what Mazda will think of next? Before anyone freaks out over yet more news from the company that changes their minds more than our politicians, if you are uncomfortable using synthetics, then don't. It's that simple. If you are worried about your engine, get it checked. You may get a new fresh one out of it for whatever reason! I wouldn't argue with that.

I want to know what they did to fix the issue in the engines manufactured recently. Is the issue solved or will this be a continuing problem? I don't want to wait for an 07!

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how. It probably goes back to why Yamamoto-san told me that he doesn't like all synthetics, specifically Mobil 1 (the most widely used synthetic in the world), while some such as Royal Purple, Valvoline, and Idemitsu are fine. I personally see this as just an excuse to get around the issue at hand and will continue to use synthetics in my car. Remember I use them in a 13B which Mazda specifically says not to use synthetics in due to potential issues with rubber seals. After several years, I am prooud to say that on Royal Purple, I have had no issues.

I wonder what Mazda will think of next? Before anyone freaks out over yet more news from the company that changes their minds more than our politicians, if you are uncomfortable using synthetics, then don't. It's that simple. If you are worried about your engine, get it checked. You may get a new fresh one out of it for whatever reason! I wouldn't argue with that.

more fuel for the fire come Sevenstock time!!

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how. It probably goes back to why Yamamoto-san told me that he doesn't like all synthetics, specifically Mobil 1 (the most widely used synthetic in the world), while some such as Royal Purple, Valvoline, and Idemitsu are fine. I personally see this as just an excuse to get around the issue at hand and will continue to use synthetics in my car. Remember I use them in a 13B which Mazda specifically says not to use synthetics in due to potential issues with rubber seals. After several years, I am prooud to say that on Royap Purple, I have had no issues.

I wonder what Mazda will think of next? Before anyone freaks out over yet more news from the company that changes their minds more than our politicians, if you are uncomfortable using synthetics, then don't. It's that simple. If you are worried about your engine, get it checked. You may get a new fresh one out of it for whatever reason! I wouldn't argue with that.


ya but after you have a couple engines replaced, it get really old.

I want to know what they did to fix the issue in the engines manufactured recently. Is the issue solved or will this be a continuing problem? I don't want to wait for an 07!


this is my concern. I'm getting my third engine installed this week. How do I know that this is going to solve the problem. It's one think for this to happen under warranty but once the warranty runs out it's a different issue.

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how. It probably goes back to why Yamamoto-san told me that he doesn't like all synthetics, specifically Mobil 1 (the most widely used synthetic in the world), while some such as Royal Purple, Valvoline, and Idemitsu are fine

Not trying to take this thread off topic but what's the 411 on the Mobil 1 RG? I just bought a GTO last week and GM suggests using Mobil 1 exclusively in it.
Should I go with RP or another brand instead?

yah i agree wit you RG, but if syn gives me more of a chance for a new engine. im going for it :P jking. but cool thread and finds guys.

ya but after you have a couple engines replaced, it get really old.
I've never replaced an engine due to an issue with the oil I use. I never will because there are no issues with the oil I use.

Not trying to take this thread off topic but what's the 411 on the Mobil 1 RG? I just bought a GTO last week and GM suggests using Mobil 1 exclusively in it.
Should I go with RP or another brand instead?
He didn't get into specifics because he speaks very broken english. All I know is that he doesn't like it in rotaries.

this is my concern. I'm getting my third engine installed this week. How do I know that this is going to solve the problem. It's one think for this to happen under warranty but once the warranty runs out it's a different issue.

there is another reflash. this one opens the metering pump more

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how. It probably goes back to why Yamamoto-san told me that he doesn't like all synthetics, specifically Mobil 1 (the most widely used synthetic in the world), while some such as Royal Purple, Valvoline, and Idemitsu are fine. I personally see this as just an excuse to get around the issue at hand and will continue to use synthetics in my car. Remember I use them in a 13B which Mazda specifically says not to use synthetics in due to potential issues with rubber seals. After several years, I am prooud to say that on Royal Purple, I have had no issues.

I wonder what Mazda will think of next? Before anyone freaks out over yet more news from the company that changes their minds more than our politicians, if you are uncomfortable using synthetics, then don't. It's that simple. If you are worried about your engine, get it checked. You may get a new fresh one out of it for whatever reason! I wouldn't argue with that.

so what is the issue at hand?

i dont know if theres any hardware changes on the newer (fixed) cars, but everyone else gets a reflash with more metering pump. this would suggest theres not enough lubrication for the seals?

thats also the reason they have given not to use synthetic in the rx8, it hasnt been a blanket no with no reason this time.

also the cars they expect to fail the testing (4 hours worth!) are the ones that arent driven hard.

so i dont think synthetic has much to do with it, but then again i know the what, but not the why

Oil leaks? Issues with synthetics? I don't see how... I personally see this as just an excuse to get around the issue at hand...

RG, this doesn't make sense to me either. If the problem really was due to synthetic oil, you'd think they would just point to the owner's manual and wiggle out of it. Why recall all of the 04s, 05s, and some 06s for a problem they believe is caused by synth?

Time will tell... if we get lots of 'Never used synth... getting a new engine', I guess we'll know.

My motor has been quite flakey lately. Maybe when the bullitin is out, I'll take it in and get a new motor. And they better not send me to enterprise again.

-Steakboy

I've never replaced an engine due to an issue with the oil I use. I never will because there are no issues with the oil I use.


I'm not saying it's because of the oil. I just hope they get a real handle on what the hell is going on. It's not just happening in hot climates.

also the cars they expect to fail the testing (4 hours worth!) are the ones that arent driven hard.


Is that four hours of labor, or four hours of continuous running? Also, where did you hear this? (just curious)

there is another reflash. this one opens the metering pump more


I had the flash done

So this sounds like what is happening to me. First they will recall all RX8s for compression testing. Those that fail get a new engine, those that pass get a new flash to increase oil injection. Is it safe to say that if a compression test comes up fine that there has been no damage to the engine? Or is it just that possible damage hasn't shown up yet? Hopefully since this issue is now being publically recognized by Mazda they will support engine replacements past the traditional warranty period.

One thing i don't get though. If it's a lubrication issue wouldn't that effect people who rev the engine high more since more movement requires more lube? It sounds like there is more at work here.

If this is true I can't wait to see the line of Rx-8's infront of my dealer's service dept.

Is there anyway to perform a vacuum test myself so I can be assured that the dealer isn't bullshitting around?

Does anyone know how this will effect those of us with turbos installed on the car? Will they check and replace our engines too?

i hint these things as strongly as i can

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1485942&highlight=vacuum#post1485942
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1488913&highlight=vacuum#post1488913

but i am glad to see Mark Rechtin at Automotive News was able to pry it out of them , there are any documents to post about it yet. As soon as they become available ill add them to this thread. I even checked the NHTSA site last night about midnight but there wasnt anything yet.

You can see now why those TSBs have come out in Europe and Australia. There are certain types of Synthetics (sorry Fred its true) that they have seen contributing to the Issue with failing engines in the hotter areas (Vegas Lubbock Phoenix etc) and why i posted that bit the other day with Mazda having oil samples from each dealership. It is less costly for Mazda to say "no synthetics" than to pay for testing of all the various synthetics to say which ones are ok or not. Is Royal Purple ok? yeah no doubt as i know those guys have actually tested their oil in rotaries. Up to you to decide if you wish to risk your warranty.

Im a little concerned (not just me but several Top Rotary people i have had the chance to talk to recently) about the Reman engines, especially in light of the recent multi -engine replacements where the Remans failed right away or very soon after replacement.

The remans use d to be doen by a company in florida- but they are now done by this Delco outfit in North Carolina. There already appears to be a quality conrol issue from there and with many more engiens to do the QC problem could compounded. Of course the top tefch people at MNAO are aware of this as well since they are spending many days and nights in Vegas. Im sure they have a plan to deal with this but that doesnt make me any less nervous about NC Delco remans:(

Itd be nice if they could do the type of longevity and cooling improvement work i heard about this weekend which will be available from a certain well known rotary house in Georgia. I doubt the Delco people could tho.

I don't see why Mazda would be recalling the 8 due to engine failures and possible huge expense to the company...we all know there's nothing wrong with the 8 and it's just in our heads because we are all just "difficult and demanding " customers. I think we should just learn to live with it... :angel:

i agree 100%, but i just want a new engine :P. but yah i agree wit you. been having my 8 since 04 and never had issues with it. had done all the nesscary recalls on it .

I agree with RG, the synthetic oil comment is just smoke and mirrors. It's easier to place blame on weather and some oil than it is to admit that there might be an issue with the design. It's like the horsepower fiasco, they're trying to divert as much of the blame away from themselves as they can.

i agree 100%, but i just want a new engine :P. but yah i agree wit you. been having my 8 since 04 and never had issues with it. had done all the nesscary recalls on it .

I was being sarcastic... :kiss:

There are alot more cars getting thier engines replaced then you think and many are on thier 3rd engine, with one poor guy on his fourth. All this is 2 years. Does not promote confidence in the car, no matter how much I love it, but I will say Mazda is doing better then I expected. It will be interesting to see what happens to an 8 that needs an engine and is over warranty...

If it's a lubrication issue wouldn't that effect people who rev the engine high more since more movement requires more lube? It sounds like there is more at work here.
If I understood zoom right in the Flash News Flash thread, high-revving increases the amount of oil injected and averts the problem. It's the low-rpm cruisers that are getting oil-starved.

I had the flash done

how? its not out for another couple weeks

how? its not out for another couple weeks
It may not be a recall for a few weeks...but most dealers have it...and are updating people.

Does anyone know how this will effect those of us with turbos installed on the car? Will they check and replace our engines too?Uh, no. That is a stern no.

AFAIK the higher oil injection flash has been used in cars for months. I had it done last month.

Is that four hours of labor, or four hours of continuous running? Also, where did you hear this? (just curious)

there are 4 tests, each one takes roughly an hour. theres a short drive test, a vacuum test, another drive test (drive part is like 8 minutes), and then another test.

mazda gave us a heads up on this one, its kinda comprehensive for a recall.

Uh, no. That is a stern no.Do you know this for a fact, or just pulling it out your ass? (I'm being serious).

Because recalls are done regardless of warranty.

AFAIK the higher oil injection flash has been used in cars for months. I had it done last month.

oh ok, so that must be what they changed on the newer non recalled cars?

merged the two threads. devious they ar eusign a new tool to test teh vacuum that the techs got training on last week. it wouldnt matter what vacuum you tested your self at because your number and theirs would be different. they will use this electronic solenoid thingy (sorry i dont have specs for the tool... yet) and it will spit back a number that is conmpaired to a chart which has altitude and temp or somethign as its X,Ys and if the number falls in the wrong place on the chart you get a new engine.

I was being sarcastic... :kiss:

There are alot more cars getting thier engines replaced then you think and many are on thier 3rd engine, with one poor guy on his fourth. All this is 2 years. Does not promote confidence in the car, no matter how much I love it, but I will say Mazda is doing better then I expected. It will be interesting to see what happens to an 8 that needs an engine and is over warranty...

its a regional problem, apparently high heat, low humidity areas are the problem. in the SF bay area, we havent seen any of the problems they are talking about

if its a little over the warranty period, mazda is able to still cover it, but its their option, so they will look at where, and when you've had the services done, and things like that. it is their option though, so ask nicely

Survey controversy, capsized ship, and a recall all within a month of each other. It must suck to be Jeremy Barnes right now.

Do you know this for a fact, or just pulling it out your ass? (I'm being serious).

Because recalls are done regardless of warranty.Im pulling it out my ass. Though if the recall is for "oil leaks", lack of oil lubrication, etc., do you really think they will look at a car that has a turbo on it? It is an aftermarket kit and not a factory produced car. If your car did fail their test, would it not be contributed to by the turbo?

AFAIK the higher oil injection flash has been used in cars for months. I had it done last month.

Would injecting more oil take away from the performance of the car any more?

I ask because I only auto-x the car. :) I bought it in '04, & I think the last flash I had was the M flash sometime early last year. That's the last time the car has been in the dealer. I guess if I get the recall, I'll bring it in to get it updated (like I would have a choice). High revs? Check. Colder climate? Check. Already paid for a new battery (can I be re-imbursed)? Only 14.5K on the odo.

In the back of my head I keep thinking that all the flashes take away a bit more performance from the car.... that I don't want to go away for obvious reasons. Anyone have any input on this?

--kC

merged the two threads. devious they ar eusign a new tool to test teh vacuum that the techs got training on last week. it wouldnt matter what vacuum you tested your self at because your number and theirs would be different. they will use this electronic solenoid thingy (sorry i dont have specs for the tool... yet) and it will spit back a number that is conmpaired to a chart which has altitude and temp or somethign as its X,Ys and if the number falls in the wrong place on the chart you get a new engine.

Thanks for the info, now I know not to waste my time trying to get a number myself. Funny because I heard this rumor over 1 month ago, and now it's starting to be reveiled.

merged the two threads. devious they ar eusign a new tool to test teh vacuum that the techs got training on last week. it wouldnt matter what vacuum you tested your self at because your number and theirs would be different. they will use this electronic solenoid thingy (sorry i dont have specs for the tool... yet) and it will spit back a number that is conmpaired to a chart which has altitude and temp or somethign as its X,Ys and if the number falls in the wrong place on the chart you get a new engine.


What are the odds of getting a look at the chart they use to determine the "acceptable" range? :wavey:

Also, if the vacuum test goung to vary with RPMs (like the compression test), have the accounted for the upgraded starters, i.e. higher cranking RPMs?

Im pulling it out my ass. Though if the recall is for "oil leaks", lack of oil lubrication, etc., do you really think they will look at a car that has a turbo on it? It is an aftermarket kit and not a factory produced car. If your car did fail their test, would it not be contributed to by the turbo?Exacty - which is why I asked :)


Would injecting more oil take away from the performance of the car any more?

In the back of my head I keep thinking that all the flashes take away a bit more performance from the car.... that I don't want to go away for obvious reasons. Anyone have any input on this?They are good to have, and if past flashes are any indication, they will usually help give you more power, better idle, etc. This one gives you better lubrication.

Would injecting more oil take away from the performance of the car any more? I don't believe it will. It is a safety measure that most do when racing their car on a full time schedule. Just making sure the engine is being lubricated as it should. Especially in a high performance enviroment.

umm.....devious....you thought i was crazy!

Survey controversy, capsized ship, and a recall all within a month of each other. It must suck to be Jeremy Barnes right now.


I wonder if he'll get hazardous duty pay? :D:

If this is a recall, as opposed to a TSB, then I the turbo might not be an automatic disqualifier.

Survey controversy, capsized ship, and a recall all within a month of each other. It must suck to be Jeremy Barnes right now.

and me pestering him about Mazda's bsegment plans:D:

Exacty - which is why I asked :)
I know. Just want to make sure people keep that in mind. Even though the dealer wont touch it, it will be noted, and could be denied. I would hate to see someone be denied for something legitimately wrong with the engine that isn't caused by the aftermarket part. But something as extreme as FI could be.

umm.....devious....you thought i was crazy!

I did believe that something was going to happen, I didn't expect you to be right on target!

I gotta call you to see if you're going to that exotic car show. Oh and on a side note... so much for me selling my 8, gonna have a hard time getting rid of it after that recall comes out!

Would injecting more oil take away from the performance of the car any more?

I ask because I only auto-x the car. :) I bought it in '04, & I think the last flash I had was the M flash sometime early last year. That's the last time the car has been in the dealer. I guess if I get the recall,

--kC

you are already a recall behind. they'll have 2 (well 3 really to check you for the control arm)to do. the newer flash is nicer thanthe M.

I guess with 72,000 miles and no problems this doesn't apply to me??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a recall this would cover all cars between the years listed, regardless of current warranty standing, right? I ask because my 8 has nearly 55,000 miles on it and I've been having engine problems lately. I've got an appointment to take it in for a compression test next week, but I wasn't looking forward to hearing that I needed a new engine on my dime.

It kinda irks me. My FC had 180k miles on the original engine when I sold it and the only thing wrong with it was it needed a new exhaust (for the third time). My '04 has less than 60k and it may need a new engine and tranny soon. :mad:

i hint these things as strongly as i can

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1485942&highlight=vacuum#post1485942
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1488913&highlight=vacuum#post1488913

but i am glad to see Mark Rechtin at Automotive News was able to pry it out of them , there are any documents to post about it yet. As soon as they become available ill add them to this thread. I even checked the NHTSA site last night about midnight but there wasnt anything yet.

You can see now why those TSBs have come out in Europe and Australia. There are certain types of Synthetics (sorry Fred its true) that they have seen contributing to the Issue with failing engines in the hotter areas (Vegas Lubbock Phoenix etc) and why i posted that bit the other day with Mazda having oil samples from each dealership. It is less costly for Mazda to say "no synthetics" than to pay for testing of all the various synthetics to say which ones are ok or not. Is Royal Purple ok? yeah no doubt as i know those guys have actually tested their oil in rotaries. Up to you to decide if you wish to risk your warranty.

Im a little concerned (not just me but several Top Rotary people i have had the chance to talk to recently) about the Reman engines, especially in light of the recent multi -engine replacements where the Remans failed right away or very soon after replacement.

The remans use d to be doen by a company in florida- but they are now done by this Delco outfit in North Carolina. There already appears to be a quality conrol issue from there and with many more engiens to do the QC problem could compounded. Of course the top tefch people at MNAO are aware of this as well since they are spending many days and nights in Vegas. Im sure they have a plan to deal with this but that doesnt make me any less nervous about NC Delco remans:(

Itd be nice if they could do the type of longevity and cooling improvement work i heard about this weekend which will be available from a certain well known rotary house in Georgia. I doubt the Delco people could tho.


actually sorry to impune Delco- its Delphi in North Carolina that is the entity who does the remans.

"White glove treatment"

Micheal Jackson wear white gloves, and I sure as hell don't want any kiddy-fiddlers touching my '8

actually sorry to impune Delco- its Delphi in North Carolina that is the entity who does the remans.
GM sabotage!

GM sabotage!
:Eyecrazy:

marbles

interesting- this is a voluntary recall on their part- so it may not ever get reported on the NHTSA site as a recall. since mazda is driving it and not the safety peeps in the government.

Delphi, as in "Bankrupt GM parts-maker Delphi"?

Oh dear...

Delphi, as in "Bankrupt GM parts-maker Delphi"?

Oh dear...
We might end up with cylinders...

interesting- this is a voluntary recall on their part- so it may not ever get reported on the NHTSA site as a recall. since mazda is driving it and not the safety peeps in the government.This is a PR move on Mazda's part so I would imagine they would follow the same rules as a government-sanctioned recall. Once they initiate a voluntary recall, they open themselves up to a mandatory recall by the NHTSA if they piss too many people off.

its a regional problem, apparently high heat, low humidity areas are the problem. in the SF bay area, we havent seen any of the problems they are talking about

I am in Ohio and I am experiencing it. Higher humidity moderate temps. This isn't limited to the South and West.

Owner since 03, this summer is the first time I've had any problem. Reflash done a couple weeks ago didn't help. (if it was even the S)


Zoom, any idea on an ETA for these vacuum measurement tools/recall? Do you know if this will be an official recall announcement or will it be a "secret" recall on a complaint only basis?

I did believe that something was going to happen, I didn't expect you to be right on target!

I gotta call you to see if you're going to that exotic car show. Oh and on a side note... so much for me selling my 8, gonna have a hard time getting rid of it after that recall comes out!

i didnt wanna be on target!.....but i told you to sell that thing a while ago.....it was running like crap right after your 2nd engine and trans went in!.....so you hooking the devious mobile up again? :) ....might as well keep it now

I just called and my dealer said the mazda tech doesn't know what any of this is...and he never took any training on this vacuum tester....

Have 33K on my engine and it has always been fine (knocking on wood as I type this). I wonder how much of this has to do with our driving styles and how we care for the engines...oil change intervals, types of oils, proper warm-up, high rpm driving, etc...

its recall works just like any otehr recall- letters will go out etc etc.

they should have had tools last week for the training. perhaps they didnt get everyone last week. most trained thursday and friday is my understanding.

Alright, I'm hoping my dealer isn't just playing stupid...

it might be a slow roll out. do one region at a time so they can get some "cores" back and not get too back logged. im sure everyone showing up at dealers the same day/week could be a logistics nightmare.

I wish for once Mazda would jsut come out and say exactly what is wrong. They seem to answer questions by giving us more to ask. If there is a seal issue, I want them to say why. I don't want to hear it's because of synthetic oils. Which ones? I guarantee that I can find some conventionals that won't do an engine any good.

No matter what the issue is with Mazda, they always beat around the bush when it comes to answers. I for one would rather them come forward and say they screwed up at during engine building or there is a design flaw rather than new excuses, bulletins, and flashes that seem to fix nothing. We've heard it all before. An engine replacement is pretty serious stuff. If so many are having issues, you can't tell me it's because of what oils some people are using. This would have happened with the RX-7's too and it didn't. It's a manufacturing issue or an oil metering issue. That's all it can be that would warrant so many changes that don't do anything. This is their last resort that will hopefully solve the problem. I wonder what they'll do when it doesn't?

My big question is this. How many engines are getting rebuilt with new parts but not being resurfaced (since they don't do that), and are going back into cars that need engine swaps? A new engine sounds nice to me but I want one that not only has no wear on the seals but also no wear on the housings. You will never find that in a Mazda remanufactured engine. To all of you who are pondering a new engine, just think of that.

It seems like i'm always the first to know when it comes to my dealer....everytime they think im on crack....yet i'm always a week or so ahead of them.

you are already a recall behind. they'll have 2 (well 3 really to check you for the control arm)to do. the newer flash is nicer thanthe M.

Okeydoke. Thanks. I'm just concerned about the dealer complaining about the Koni shocks, all the stickers on the car and the single exit exhaust.... and I'm not about to throw everything stock back on the car.

On top of that, when the next flash after M came out, I went in to schedule to bring the car in for it.....

"We won't give you a re-flash unless you're experiencing any issues that would REQUIRE you to get the flash."

You can understand why I'm weary about the dealer touching my car.

--kC

It seems like i'm always the first to know when it comes to my dealer....everytime they think im on crack....yet i'm always a week or so ahead of them.

do you have tons of cuts of the 8 taped to yoru wall? with bull eye marks on them etc?

Ok, so they do a vacuum test on the motor and only replace it if it fails. That must mean that bad motors fail the vacuum test right off the lot, right? If they didn’t do it right off the lot what is to stop a motor from developing the problem AFTER the car goes in for the recall. If they do fail right off the lot how could synthetic oil be at fault? The LOGIC here is a little screwed up.

fred- they havent done anything previously to address this issue. also they are not blaming a synthetic oil for this issue- the point is that some synthetic oils have been shown to be a contributing factor. they dont cause the problem but can exacerbate the situation. that pic in the european bulletin is from a US engine. they cant come out and say "dont use Brand X" because then they would get drawn in to a protracted legal battle with Brand X.

the remans are definetly a concern. because if its oil flow due to a casting issue then obviously that wont fix it.

mx6 2 rx8:

no because the motors arent bad right off the lot. its a cumulative issue caused by traffic hot temps low humidity low rev driving and HOT OIL. cars on the lot havent face those issues yet

That's my point. If the motors test good when the car is brought in for the recall they won't be replaced even if they are bad. A few years down the road the engine could fail because of this issue.

fred- they havent done anything previously to address this issue. also they are not blaming a synthetic oil for this issue- the point is that some synthetic oils have been shown to be a contributing factor. they dont cause the problem but can exacerbate the situation. that pic in the european bulletin is from a US engine. they cant come out and say "dont use Brand X" because then they would get drawn in to a protracted legal battle with Brand X.

the remans are definetly a concern. because if its oil flow due to a casting issue then obviously that wont fix it.

can you link me to this euro bulletin w/ the US engine, inquiring mind wants to know/see...

no - if the engine fails fo rthis issue they will replace them - period

2nd post this page http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=96514&page=3

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83299

i just went down to my dealer to have my tail light replaced due to condensation. He told me that ALL 04 to spring 06 models will have a new motor regardless of a vacuum issue. Even if you already had your motor replaced in the past. He says its related to oil and power loss problems. He said i will get a notice in the mail and to come right in to schedule an appointment for a new motor. Time to slam it to 9k RPM like its going out of style. Awesome!

I supposedly got the new flash when I had my car in to the dealer last month. I've noticed my car is using LESS oil than before. Shouldn't it be using more? I haven't had to add any oil in 2500 miles. They did overfill it, as usual, but I typically have to add some oil by now. It wasn't a concern to me until I read this thread. My engine has been just fine and now has 62,500 miles on it.

That's my point. If the motors test good when the car is brought in for the recall they won't be replaced even if they are bad. A few years down the road the engine could fail because of this issue.

Possible, but you'll get the reflash if your car tests ok, so assuming that the new flash puts enough oil in at cruise, your engine should be fine.

I don't blame you for being concerned, though.

Perhaps a stupid question here...

I assume it is possible for my car to pass the vacuum test today but fail in the future? If so would it still be covered under the recall?

what is a piston- slamming it wouldnt hurt the engine- you want anew engine? go sit in traffic with only one oil cooler for several hours every day for a week when the air temp is over 100 and the temp being read at the road surface is over 200.

yes and yes

i just went down to my dealer to have my tail light replaced due to condensation. He told me that ALL 04 to spring 06 models will have a new motor regardless of a vacuum issue. Even if you already had your motor replaced in the past. He says its related to oil and power loss problems. He said i will get a notice in the mail and to come right in to schedule an appointment for a new motor. Time to slam it to 9k RPM like its going out of style. Awesome!

I'm with RG on not wanting a remanufactured engine. If I'm getting a new engine, I actually want it to be new.

As for Mazda giving everyone new engines, I doubt it.

Personally, I don't want a new motor and am happy with the one I have.

hopefully this won'to make it hard to sell a used 8.

I'm with RG on not wanting a remanufactured engine. If I'm getting a new engine, I actually want it to be new.

As for Mazda giving everyone new engines, I doubt it.

Personally, I don't want a new motor and am happy with the one I have.

That's how I feel. Mine seems to run just fine, and I have heard too many horror stories about remanufactured engines.

i just went down to my dealer to have my tail light replaced due to condensation. He told me that ALL 04 to spring 06 models will have a new motor regardless of a vacuum issue. Even if you already had your motor replaced in the past. He says its related to oil and power loss problems. He said i will get a notice in the mail and to come right in to schedule an appointment for a new motor. Time to slam it to 9k RPM like its going out of style. Awesome!

I'd caution you that what your dealer is saying is different than what the Mazda corporate rep said... but zoom's right. Hit 9K a lot, your car likes it. Awful lotta fun, too.

this sucks....so they recall the ones that dont pass now and if 2-5 years down the road since they checked before yours dont count if it blows up?.....this should be an all or nothing....

Will the new engines come with a new warranty on the engine? Not that it matters to me I guess, because I'm out of warranty, but what about people that are still in warranty.

Also, what if you get a new one, then the engine fails again for the same issue. Will they replace that one also.....what about again after that?

I'm with RG on not wanting a remanufactured engine. If I'm getting a new engine, I actually want it to be new.

As for Mazda giving everyone new engines, I doubt it.

Personally, I don't want a new motor and am happy with the one I have.
Me too. I was just noting how smooth and strong it's running. And to have them yank it out so Delphi can reman one for me? I hope mine passes.

this sucks....so they recall the ones that dont pass now and if 2-5 years down the road since they checked before yours dont count if it blows up?.....this should be an all or nothing....

Don't worry chris, your car is still going to look awesome even if it doesn't run... :kiss:

Are you going to the exotic show this weekend in NH?

well thanks....and i wish i could go but its my anniversary weekend and wifey wont go for a road trip/ car show as a gift.....no matter how hard i tried for it.....but hey at least now ill have a new motor for my new trans....they should throw in a set of tires for my trouble!

I'm with RG on not wanting a remanufactured engine. If I'm getting a new engine, I actually want it to be new.

As for Mazda giving everyone new engines, I doubt it.

Personally, I don't want a new motor and am happy with the one I have.

My car was made in April of 05, I got it in May of 05 (1 month old, 1 mile on the clock). I followed the recomended break-in process to the letter! I got my first oil change done at 3k miles at the dealer. I changed it every 3000-3500 miles since then with Castrol GTX 5w20.

Long story short, the dealer said I would need my engine replaced for the problem I was having. The car was 7 months old (from its build date) and 6 months old (from when I got it) and had 10500 miles on it.

I asked if I would get a NEW engine, and specificaly said "Not a rebuilt or remanufactured....but NEW" The dealer told me it was coming in overnight from Japan. This sounded strange to me so I called Mazda NAO and asked the same thing, and said what the dealer told me. They again said "You will be getting a NEW engine, not a remanufactured or rebuilt motor...but NEW"

When I went to pick up the car at the end of the week...what do you know....the invoice said "Rebuilt"....I asked the dealer what was up and they said that they were told it was a new motor by Mazda NAO, so I called MNAO and asked what happened....they were told by someone above them it was going to be new......and after a few days of going up the ladder....it appears that everyone has someone above them to blame. I filed a compaint with the dealer and NAO about the issue, but never got a letter or a call or anything saying sorry.

thanks zoom, that carbon deposit looks horrible!!!

Why would you not want a new motor? Especially the people who are getting near 70k miles. Regardless if its a new motor or not, if there is a problem with it, they are obligated to fix it. So whats the big deal? And for the people who have turbos, doesnt installing an induction system totally void all warranty work related to the motor? Figured a recall was for warranted cars but i dunno.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a recall this would cover all cars between the years listed, regardless of current warranty standing, right? I ask because my 8 has nearly 55,000 miles on it and I've been having engine problems lately. I've got an appointment to take it in for a compression test next week, but I wasn't looking forward to hearing that I needed a new engine on my dime.
It kinda irks me. My FC had 180k miles on the original engine when I sold it and the only thing wrong with it was it needed a new exhaust (for the third time). My '04 has less than 60k and it may need a new engine and tranny soon. :mad:
Recalls must be done at the manufacturers expense, b/c it's treated as manufacturer error, and usually a safety concern. Someone with more knowledge of this can (hopefully) confirm.

Zoom - I think what mx6 is saying is more along the lines of - "what if my engine passes but is well on it's way to death?"

hope I didn't repeat something already posted in the last 2 minutes of typing.

My car was made in April of 05, I got it in May of 05 (1 month old, 1 mile on the clock). I followed the recomended break-in process to the letter! I got my first oil change done at 3k miles at the dealer. I changed it every 3000-3500 miles since then with Castrol GTX 5w20.

Long story short, the dealer said I would need my engine replaced for the problem I was having. The car was 7 months old (from its build date) and 6 months old (from when I got it) and had 10500 miles on it.

I asked if I would get a NEW engine, and specificaly said "Not a rebuilt or remanufactured....but NEW" The dealer told me it was coming in overnight from Japan. This sounded strange to me so I called Mazda NAO and asked the same thing, and said what the dealer told me. They again said "You will be getting a NEW engine, not a remanufactured or rebuilt motor...but NEW"

When I went to pick up the car at the end of the week...what do you know....the invoice said "Rebuilt"....I asked the dealer what was up and they said that they were told it was a new motor by Mazda NAO, so I called MNAO and asked what happened....they were told by someone above them it was going to be new......and after a few days of going up the ladder....it appears that everyone has someone above them to blame. I filed a compaint with the dealer and NAO about the issue, but never got a letter or a call or anything saying sorry.

That sucks, it's why you have to get EVERYTHING in writing in America. It's just how society works and if they shaft you then you need to have a leg to stand on. I need to go check my mail and see if I got a recall letter, it's been a few weeks since I checked it.

*sigh*

so MT at risk, and if so, how much?

So are hard-driven MT cars at risk? I don't use synth, just dino-juice*

If mine fails, I'll *really* raise a stink if the replacement motor comes from the US. Part of the deal was I gave 30+K sheckles to Mazda in exchange for a car built in Hiroshima, with an engine built in Hiroshima... not Detroit. If I wanted that, I'd drive a GM or Ford.

I hope mine passess. I like my little hiroshima rocket just fine the way it is, don't want some 2nd-rate reman motor.. least of all one built here.

To Mazda Japan (and MNAO): I think y'all should handle this very, very carefully. Like a loaded firearm, actually. If it goes off it could kill Mazda.. again.. like the FD did, and the Rx-2 / 3 / 4 before it. I like your cars, but y'all are making me just a touch nervous about the longevity of this powerplant. I drive mine hard, but still... that doubt..

* Dino-juice is a ephemism of mine.. no one has convinced me that it comes form rotting old forests and rotting old dinosaurs.. no one has convinced me it is fossil and finite.

marbles

so what if the Refurb engine wasnt broken in properly?

^I think they will look at the engines to make sure that everythings within spec...

*sigh*

so MT at risk, and if so, how much?

So are hard-driven MT cars at risk? I don't use synth, just dino-juice*



.[/I]


well.....I drive an MT....use regular oil and live in a colder climate....2 engine failures. This is why I think that this is all bullshit. I can't understand why they don;t come out with the real reason unless they really don't know. Both my failures have been different but of course you can't get a straight answer out of the dealership.

Now it's hit the wire.. found this on google news. Clicko el Linko (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/mazda_recall.html)

It's the same text posted at the head of this thread. The main wires should pick up on it quite soon.

Why would you not want a new motor? Especially the people who are getting near 70k miles. Regardless if its a new motor or not, if there is a problem with it, they are obligated to fix it. So whats the big deal? And for the people who have turbos, doesnt installing an induction system totally void all warranty work related to the motor? Figured a recall was for warranted cars but i dunno.

I think you are missing the point. A remanufactured engine is not new, you said that yourself. It may have new seals, but the rotors (not that big a deal most of the time), housings, eccentric shaft, etc...are all re-used parts. RG's post went into this, but housings have varying tolerances. If I tore down and rebuilt my 33K engine, my housings still have 33K of wear. My rebuilt engine still has lesser life than a new engine with new housings. I don't want someone elses old housings, I either want brand new housings - which I'm guessing I'm not going to get. If I'm going to get an unknown engine, with housings in God knows what condition, I'll take my current engine that has been trouble free and not worry about all this.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The question I have is, what is involved in a remanufactured engine? Rotor Housing, Apex Seals, Side Seals, Corner Seals, Metering Rods, other? Or would it just be rebuilt and the "Bad" parts be inspected and replaced? Do our engines have the VIN number stamped on them?

Good news is most of you will only need the inspection and maybe some spark plugs. Hot weather climates may experience more engine issues.

Just spoke to my good friend at Mazda, He said that its mostly 8's in hot weather areas and becuse many 8 owners are not driving them hard. Carbon buld up is a factor. He said this could be it for mazda with the rotary! His words.

Good news is most of you will only need the inspection and maybe some spark plugs. Hot weather climates may experience more engine issues.
...and a reflash, correct?

Good news is most of you will only need the inspection and maybe some spark plugs. Hot weather climates may experience more engine issues.

so we could be sent on our merry way in hopes our engine may pop one sunny day?.....unacceptable.....really how many days does the average rx-8 owner have to be without thier car?.....i can tell you i know my service writers wife and kids names by now!....im not one to complain but this is getting rediculous now....i pay allot on a monthly basis so i can have a unique and beautiful sports car.....not so once a month i get to drive a neon for a few days!

Was in the shop not long ago..... and I got the CA flash and compression check (but not this recall). The failure mode as I understood from my dealer tech was a steady long use of mid rpms at part throttle...I guess like a looooooonnng interstate trip at steady cruise. The metering pump didn't provide sufficient oil to keep compression up in that particular mode, so the car slowly lost power and eventually lost compression and slowed down and wouldn't go fast any longer.

This was not my symptom, just no power, and it was my cat and coils, in the end. I rarely cruise, just... mostly l spin to 9k as much as possible, using oil in the process, which I dutifully replace (dino oil only).

I wonder if they'll want to test me again? I wonder if engines will be in short supply? I like my Japanese engine and don't really want an American one (unless it makes more HP!)

My feeling is the latest flash I got slowed the car down somewhat, unfortunately.

I live in NM where it can be very hot. I spoke with one 8 owner that moved here from east coast and he is on his third new engine due to heat related issues, which seem to be in the potential recall. I have bypassed the coolant to throttle body to help assist with heat management. Crappy and/or low octane gas will create vapor lock more easily in the hot states as well. I keep octane boost with me at all times. I do not run synthetic. But know many that do. Very important to keep oil full and not wait for the idiot 1qt low light. Be interesting on how many are affected. Thanks for posting this!

So whose down for a kamakaze run through Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas at with cruise control on at 50mph in 6th gear?

How's that a kamikaze run?

I have to drive from Virginia to Massachusetts in three weeks. Does this mean I shouldn't use cruise control in order to protect my engine? That's going to suck.

i really hope that my car will pass the vaccuum test and i get to keep my ORIGINAL motor

if it ain't broke don't fix it, that saying sounds about perfect right now :D:

<---- 39900 miles, NO Grp IV oil, ever, several track days, runs strong as a bull :D:

yeah, how is that a kamikaze run?

I was just on a cruise for about 30 miles at 76 MPH in 6th gear, and i'm in Phoenix!

No problems here. also, heres a snap of my ambient temp gauge after about a 20 minute cruise at 9 PM..

How's that a kamikaze run?
More like Seppuku. :scared:

Blue Sky: your post has been duly noted by MNAO.

How's that a kamikaze run?


kill the engine and get a new one?

I cruise at 50 all the time. But I redline a few times a day as well.

marbles

glorious, scrambling, MARBLES

Just spoke to my good friend at Mazda, He said that its mostly 8's in hot weather areas and becuse many 8 owners are not driving them hard. Carbon buld up is a factor. He said this could be it for mazda with the rotary! His words.


WE'RE LYKE D00m3D!!!1211odenslashelevonoene!!!oneo

which i have ZERO of :D:

Actually, I use cruise control every day. And I redline it at least once every day. But when I cruise daily, it is normally for only 10-20 miles, not for hours on end.

It will be very interesting to see how my engine does in this test. My perception is that it runs just as strong today as it ever has.

The question I have is, what is involved in a remanufactured engine? Rotor Housing, Apex Seals, Side Seals, Corner Seals, Metering Rods, other? Or would it just be rebuilt and the "Bad" parts be inspected and replaced? Do our engines have the VIN number stamped on them?
All of the housings, irons, rotors, bearings, and the eccentric shaft are checked to make sure wear levels are within spec. There is a range in which it is fine to use. My concern is that they will build an engine using parts that are at or near the tolerable limit of "fine" and that use as a "new" engine will send it over this in short order. Any of these parts not found to be within acceptable limits are thrown away. Seals are all new. In the past, Mazda has put a remanufactured tag on the engine somewhere to denote it not being an original.

I remember a post from Judge Ito some time ago regarding premature wear of the side seals resulting in a loss of compression. He claimed then that there was some type of engineering flaw in the engine. This is probably unrelated, but you never know.

I just got my car 2 weeks ago I sure as shit better not have to get a new engine. I don't expect to come in for a recall until mine fails or warranty is about to expire.

So should I drain my RP before taking it in on the recall? These bastages have got me synthetic paranoid now. :-(

I didn't switch to RP b/c of the same concern. Who's to say they aren't going to test the oils? Seems a bit over the top to me, but then, it must be cheaper than passing out *new* engines.

Mazda already knows of the potential for carbon buildup in this engine. The proof of that is in the shape of the closing edge of the exhaust ports and the wedge shape of the side seals. You know they did all of their testing on conventional "genuine Mazda oil" yet they still have carbon issues and have always had them. These problems are nothing new. It is just them coming around and finally admitting that it is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Back in the 70's, Mazda experimented with the side exhaust port but did not do it. Why? They had carbon issues that resulted in carbon collecting in the ports and breaking seals. You know they used conventional oils back then too as practically everyone did. The modern day solution to it was to use more accurate oil metering techniques than just dumping it down the carb like the old cars in the 70's, wedge shaped side seals to help remove any carbon buildup from sticking them in place, and the gradual closing edge shape on the exhaust ports to help scrape away any carbon. None of this is a new issue and none of it is a problem that didn't exist before synthetic oils. That is just their scapegoat for it.

Come on Mazda, just admit what the problem really is and make us all happy.

So should I drain my RP before taking it in on the recall? These bastages have got me synthetic paranoid now. :-(
Yamamoto-san specifically said last year at Sevenstock that RP was one of the good synthetics to use in the rotary. He did say not to use Mobil 1 but did not say why. I've used RP for years with no issues. So have many others and so has Racing Beat. Don't sweat it.

We need to ask ourselves something very important. If there are certain oil companies out there that make synthetics that we shouldn't be using due to carbon deposits, should you really feel any better by using that same brand's conventional oils??? That would scare me. It's not the base stock that makes and oil an oil. It's the additive package. It is many of these that are leaving the deposits. I'd be scared to use any oil from any certain company if one of them were found to cause problems.

As we all know, I have and always will endorse Royal Purple. My favorite conventional oil though is Havoline.

I'm pretty sure I got this flash last time my car was in. They were testing it here in TX and some people report more oil consumption, some report less. My car definitely burned more for the first 1000 miles, but I also noticed something else. The oil light now comes on earlier. It comes on at exactly a quart low instead of 1.5 or 1.7 or wherever it came on before. I thought this was a fluke, but the last 3 times it's come on, it's been exactly at a quart low. I've put in 3 quarts since I got the flash and I'll have to check as to how far I've gone since then.

I have the maintenance paperwork at home.

Hmmm, you wait until the light comes one? Isn't that a bit too low?

Personally, I will be glad if my current engine is fine. I dont want to replace it. If you have no symptoms of a possible damaged engine, i.e. severe loss of power, low vaccum etc...You will be fine with the reflash. The recall procedure is pretty comprehensive. Expect to leave your car for half a day.

Hmmm, you wait until the light comes one? Isn't that a bit too low?The light is there for a reason. Mine came on twice before I got this flash in the 2.5 years I've had the car, and both times it took approx 1.7 quarts. Now it comes on at 1 quart low and it's come on 3 times since I got flashed. Each time, I've checked it, added 1 quart and then checked it again and it's been at the top of the dipstick. It's very odd, but it makes sense to protect the engine.

To each their own, I top my oil off about every 3rd full up and it generally takes very little.

But I need to get in the habit of "one redline a day keeps the Mazda mechanic away" :)

So even thought I had the reflash done 2 weeks ago I'm going to have to go in for this testing b/c the "vacuum test" will be required, correct?

Otherside - Should I expect a loaner/rental on Mazda's tab?

So even thought I had the reflash done 2 weeks ago I'm going to have to go in for this testing b/c the "vacuum test" will be required, correct?

Otherside - Should I expect a loaner/rental on Mazda's tab?

I hope you like chevy aveos.. likely they'll put you in such a clunker, or a comparable clunker. My ex-dealer stuck me in aveos, focus, neon.. etc. blah. 30k and you get treated like a bottom-feeding entry-level customer. x.x

I hope you like chevy aveos.. likely they'll put you in such a clunker, or a comparable clunker. My ex-dealer stuck me in aveos, focus, neon.. etc. blah. 30k and you get treated like a bottom-feeding entry-level customer. x.x

i got put in a Nissan Xterra..... it was weird bodyrolling all over the place lol :Eyecrazy:

WOW 11 pages of speculation in 1 day. Its amazing what will happen on the web. When a lot of people start rumors. Let me clarify a few things. YES there is a new recall coming out. #4206F we do not have any paper info on it yet. YES there was a webinar (like a seminar but online) that every Mazda tech, service manager and service advisor was supposed to listen in on, it was an hour long webinar last Thursday/Friday. No not every car is going to get a new engine. mazda predicts less then 1% of vehicle will need a new engine. less then 5% will need a new catalytic converter but 100% will need a new flash, even if you had a flash 1-2 weeks ago, you will need another new flash. The test takes about on hour or so to do for each vehicle, expect your car to be down 2-3 hours though depending on how busy the dealer is that day. The cars are being tested for lack of power. the cars will be tested at high RPM to see if the RPMs drop rapidly, yes high RPM but they will be driven safely (lets not start speculating on the certified technicians damaging your engine because of high RPMs either)if the RPMs drops rapidly for no reason, ie your foot is still on the pedal, then you will get a new engine, if it does not drop you will not. If you have had experience in the past where your car has lost power then perhaps you are the 1% that will need an engine if you have never had a loss of power then you will just get a new flash. All Rx8 owners will get a letter in the mail next week (Aug 28th they get mailed to customers) DO NOT KAMIKAZE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT SABOTAGE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT PUT SYNTHITIC OIL IN YOUR ENGINE AND JUST EXPECT TO GET A NEW ONE BECUASE IF YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS MENTIONED ON THE RECALL YOU WILL NOT GET A NEW ENGINE AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR A NEW ONE YOURSELF.
Yes it is a recall and EVERY car will be covered under warranty FOR THE RECALL.
I would really like to just say relax right now and just wait until next week when the recall actually comes out and PLEASE PLEASE STOP SPECULATING AND/OR TELLING PEOPLE THAT EVERY ENGINE WILL BE REPLACED BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE CASE! Just relax and enjoy driving your RX8 like you always have.

I love aveo's, what's wrong with aveo's? :mdrmed:

I'll pay the extra $10 bucks and get something nice.

So aside from getting the vacuum test, is it safe to say that if you are not experiencing power loss, and you in a moderate climate, that your engine should be ok?

I too am very scepticle about getting a reman engine. I guess I would go in for the test, but I have had no problems what so ever (knock on wood) with my engine, or other parts of the car.

I'm not going to freak out quite yet, but I'm glad they are handling the situation the way they are. With the dealers out of the equation you know the engines are being handled by people who know what they are doing.

The longer term issue is the bad press (again) for the rotary in general. What kills me is that it isn't the engines as much as the auxillaries that are causing the issues.


Yeah but HOT CLIMATES?? I mean ar eyou kidding, these cars have summer rated tires. Why even make an engine that can't handle hot climates? You live in Houston and I live in Dallas so should we just not have RX8s then? I mean, there has to be a ton more about this. Hell, it probably reaches close to 100 anywhere in the country at some point.

I was dead set on buying an 8 soon, but what the hell? I can't have a car in a hot climate without worrying about oil leaks from the engine into the catalyst? Jesus.

I would presume that if they're doing an engine recall, that they've got a solution to the engine failures. "Banning" synthetic oil appears to be part of it, but certainly isn't the full solution. Are there new specification parts going into the remanufactured engines? Is there something in the current ECU flash thats supposed to fix the prblem? Does anyone know what the fix is?
--R.

Yeah but HOT CLIMATES?? I mean ar eyou kidding, these cars have summer rated tires. Why even make an engine that can't handle hot climates? You live in Houston and I live in Dallas so should we just not have RX8s then? I mean, there has to be a ton more about this. Hell, it probably reaches close to 100 anywhere in the country at some point.

I was dead set on buying an 8 soon, but what the hell? I can't have a car in a hot climate without worrying about oil leaks from the engine into the catalyst? Jesus.

let's see how many prospective buyers we can scare away just from this thread lol

Is there something in the current ECU flash thats supposed to fix the prblem? Does anyone know what the fix is?
--R.

Yes, the new flash injects more oil into the rotors at lower (cruising) rpms. But in addition to that they are trying to find and replace engines where the damage has already been done.

I would presume that if they're doing an engine recall, that they've got a solution to the engine failures. "Banning" synthetic oil appears to be part of it, but certainly isn't the full solution. Are there new specification parts going into the remanufactured engines? Is there something in the current ECU flash thats supposed to fix the prblem? Does anyone know what the fix is?
--R.

i think once the official recall letter is sent out next week, the few Mazda contacts we have on this forum will reveal more insight... be patient for now and don't spaz out *too much* lol :Eyecrazy:

WOW 11 pages of speculation in 1 day. Its amazing what will happen on the web. When a lot of people start rumors. Let me clarify a few things. YES there is a new recall coming out. #4206F we do not have any paper info on it yet. YES there was a webinar (like a seminar but online) that every Mazda tech, service manager and service advisor was supposed to listen in on, it was an hour long webinar last Thursday/Friday. No not every car is going to get a new engine. mazda predicts less then 1% of vehicle will need a new engine. less then 5% will need a new catalytic converter but 100% will need a new flash, even if you had a flash 1-2 weeks ago, you will need another new flash. The test takes about on hour or so to do for each vehicle, expect your car to be down 2-3 hours though depending on how busy the dealer is that day. The cars are being tested for lack of power. the cars will be tested at high RPM to see if the RPMs drop rapidly, yes high RPM but they will be driven safely (lets not start speculating on the certified technicians damaging your engine because of high RPMs either)if the RPMs drops rapidly for no reason, ie your foot is still on the pedal, then you will get a new engine, if it does not drop you will not. If you have had experience in the past where your car has lost power then perhaps you are the 1% that will need an engine if you have never had a loss of power then you will just get a new flash. All Rx8 owners will get a letter in the mail next week (Aug 28th they get mailed to customers) DO NOT KAMIKAZE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT SABOTAGE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT PUT SYNTHITIC OIL IN YOUR ENGINE AND JUST EXPECT TO GET A NEW ONE BECUASE IF YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS MENTIONED ON THE RECALL YOU WILL NOT GET A NEW ENGINE AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR A NEW ONE YOURSELF.
Yes it is a recall and EVERY car will be covered under warranty FOR THE RECALL.
I would really like to just say relax right now and just wait until next week when the recall actually comes out and PLEASE PLEASE STOP SPECULATING AND/OR TELLING PEOPLE THAT EVERY ENGINE WILL BE REPLACED BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE CASE! Just relax and enjoy driving your RX8 like you always have.

I will never trust someone that puts a Zoom-Zoom sticker on their windshield...

I will never trust someone that puts a Zoom-Zoom sticker on their windshield...

LOL. :hahano: :mdrmed: :lol2: :jump:

let's see how many prospective buyers we can scare away just from this thread lol

Anyone not dumb enough to buy an engine that lives in "hot" weather. We'll wait til all the facts come out, but I mean if engine problems are caused because of hot weather....sad.

ibfubar2000 devulged alot of information in detail about the recall and I agree with his perspective on dealing with it. I can pretty much guarantee We will not be replacing any engines in our area. Yes you will get a rental car. If you get an aveo so what, its better than walking (almost). I think it is great that Mazda is stepping up. This is a voluntary recall after all.

btw i was jking about putting synthetic oil in the car thinking i would get a new engine :P. im never really am serious about anythng about the 8. any how thnanks for the heads up zoom zoom. btw are we ever going to see antoher rotarty 2 seater :P

so do you think we can use this as an excuse next time anyone gets caught speeding?

"sorry officer, but Mazda says if I am not doing at least 85 my engine will break"

but it isn't just cars in the hot climates that are having trouble...there has to be something more to it.

ibfubar2000 devulged alot of information in detail about the recall and I agree with his perspective on dealing with it. I can pretty much guarantee We will not be replacing any engines in our area. Yes you will get a rental car. If you get an aveo so what, its better than walking (almost). I think it is great that Mazda is stepping up. This is a voluntary recall after all.

You call it stepping up, others will call is damage control. I think Mazda has pie on their face and they're trying to figure out how to make it go away.

mazda predicts less then 1% of vehicle will need a new engine. less then 5% will need a new catalytic converter but 100% will need a new flash, even if you had a flash 1-2 weeks ago, you will need another new flash.
Thank you for the info. Your whole post was very interesting, especially the part quoted above.

Yes, the new flash injects more oil into the rotors at lower (cruising) rpms. But in addition to that they are trying to find and replace engines where the damage has already been done.

The problem is carbon build up right? How does adding more oil reduce carbon build up?
-R.

maybe the new engines will hit the claimed 247hp...

i personally wonder if each mazda dealer has techs who can properly diagnose engines which need to be replaced and which dont. frankly, i dont trust most of them. i imagine this recall could be extremely costly for mazda.

You call it stepping up, others will call is damage control. I think Mazda has pie on their face and they're trying to figure out how to make it go away.
There's some truth to that, but they are certainly going to alot of trouble to try to get it right. They could have just blown the whole thing off.

My question here is, can this problem continue? So what if get a new engine, are you still going to have hot climate problems? See, I'm all fine with all of the 8's quirks, but if I find hot weather is a problem, that cancels out buying an 8 in most parts of the country. What are the cause of these oil leaks and how will they be fixed so as to not happen again? I guess noone really knows right now?

WOW 11 pages of speculation in 1 day. Its amazing what will happen on the web. When a lot of people start rumors. Let me clarify a few things. YES there is a new recall coming out. #4206F we do not have any paper info on it yet. YES there was a webinar (like a seminar but online) that every Mazda tech, service manager and service advisor was supposed to listen in on, it was an hour long webinar last Thursday/Friday. No not every car is going to get a new engine. mazda predicts less then 1% of vehicle will need a new engine. less then 5% will need a new catalytic converter but 100% will need a new flash, even if you had a flash 1-2 weeks ago, you will need another new flash. The test takes about on hour or so to do for each vehicle, expect your car to be down 2-3 hours though depending on how busy the dealer is that day. The cars are being tested for lack of power. the cars will be tested at high RPM to see if the RPMs drop rapidly, yes high RPM but they will be driven safely (lets not start speculating on the certified technicians damaging your engine because of high RPMs either)if the RPMs drops rapidly for no reason, ie your foot is still on the pedal, then you will get a new engine, if it does not drop you will not. If you have had experience in the past where your car has lost power then perhaps you are the 1% that will need an engine if you have never had a loss of power then you will just get a new flash. All Rx8 owners will get a letter in the mail next week (Aug 28th they get mailed to customers) DO NOT KAMIKAZE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT SABOTAGE YOUR ENGINE!! DO NOT PUT SYNTHITIC OIL IN YOUR ENGINE AND JUST EXPECT TO GET A NEW ONE BECUASE IF YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF THE PROBLEMS MENTIONED ON THE RECALL YOU WILL NOT GET A NEW ENGINE AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR A NEW ONE YOURSELF.
Yes it is a recall and EVERY car will be covered under warranty FOR THE RECALL.
I would really like to just say relax right now and just wait until next week when the recall actually comes out and PLEASE PLEASE STOP SPECULATING AND/OR TELLING PEOPLE THAT EVERY ENGINE WILL BE REPLACED BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE CASE! Just relax and enjoy driving your RX8 like you always have.

Thanks for the info!!
Where did you obtain it? Are you a Mazda Tech?

:beer:

ibfubar2000 DOES have Mazda contact.... ;)

maybe the new engines will hit the claimed 247hp...

i personally wonder if each mazda dealer has techs who can properly diagnose engines which need to be replaced and which dont. frankly, i dont trust most of them. i imagine this recall could be extremely costly for mazda.

The recall will tell the tech how to diagnose it, the tech will not really be doing too much diagnosing, the car will be hooked up to a display that will guide the tech when/how to drive rev engine etc. and if the car falls within the proper specs then only the flash will be done. ALL RECALLS ARE COSTLY TO THE MANUFACTURERS. BUT IT IS SOMETHING THEY FEEL THEY NEED TO DO FOR THE CUSTOMER FREE OF CHARGE. its better then not doing anything and making the comsumer buy a new engine after the car is out of warranty. or leaving the customer with a car that looses power, at least Mazda is doing SOMETHING.

You call it stepping up, others will call is damage control. I think Mazda has pie on their face and they're trying to figure out how to make it go away.
However you want look at it, the result is the same. Mazda is fixing the problem at no expense to you. If you think Mazda is saying " All those people saw our video about the survey process so we better recall thousands of cars and potentially lose hundreds of thousands of dollars so they stop crying" your way off. Alot of research went into the RX8 engine issues well before the survey fiasco.

ibfubar2000 DOES have Mazda contact.... ;)

Thanks Zoom!!

Seems panic and hysteria will have to wait for another disaster.

Another thing to rememebr is this is new engine technology, Mazda really has no idea if the long term effects of this engine, they did tests, yes, but it is difficult to do real life tests especially since everybody has different driving techniques. There will be things that come up after a few years that Mazda will hopefully repair for us when/if it becomes a major issue.

BTW I work for a Mazda dealer in Cerritos, Ca. so yes I consider myself a good reliable resource. :)

The problem is carbon build up right?
I don't think so. There was an example posted by zoom of carbon buildup from synth oil use, but my understanding was that this was damage to the seals from lack of oil when operating at low rpms, exacerbated by heat/low humidity/only one oil cooler. I could be wrong though.

However you want look at it, the result is the same. Mazda is fixing the problem at no expense to you. If you think Mazda is saying " All those people saw our video about the survey process so we better recall thousands of cars and potentially lose hundreds of thousands of dollars so they stop crying" your way off. Alot of research went into the RX8 engine issues well before the survey fiasco.

What flash are you guys up to now, how much HP was the car supposed to have upon release? Maybe not as much research as they should have done... I don't think Mazda is doing this recall solely because of the video leak, but I bet action was taken a little sooner (maybe they weren't going to take action) than they had planned. Anyone want to take bets that Mazda will try to spin this to make it look like the RX-8 surveys wouldn't count because they had a big recall planned?

Another thing to rememebr is this is new engine technology, Mazda really has no idea if the long term effects of this engine, they did tests, yes, but it is difficult to do real life tests especially since everybody has different driving techniques. There will be things that come up after a few years that Mazda will hopefully repair for us when/if it becomes a major issue.

BTW I work for a Mazda dealer in Cerritos, Ca. so yes I consider myself a good reliable resource. :)

Then this is a fair question, if I was to buy an 06 today, will the issues have been fixed on the ones sitting on the lots?

I like the 8 the same as the next person, but asking questions and inquiring on this is a smart move. I don't want to buy a car that has problems in hot weather. I think thats a reasonable statement. If the recalls have been done on all the new 06 8s that haven't been sold, then I will be less worried.

I don't want someone elses old housings, I either want brand new housings - which I'm guessing I'm not going to get. If I'm going to get an unknown engine, with housings in God knows what condition, I'll take my current engine that has been trouble free and not worry about all this.
Yeah, buddayyy... I don't want someone else's 50k-mile housings to replace my so-far-trouble-free engine with under 5k miles on it.

What flash are you guys up to now, how much HP was the car supposed to have upon release? Maybe not as much research as they should have done... I don't think Mazda is doing this recall solely because of the video leak, but I bet action was taken a little sooner (maybe they weren't going to take action) than they had planned. Anyone want to take bets that Mazda will try to spin this to make it look like the RX-8 surveys wouldn't count because they had a big recall planned?
The glass is always half empty isnt it...

Then this is a fair question, if I was to buy an 06 today, will the issues have been fixed on the ones sitting on the lots?

I like the 8 the same as the next person, but asking questions and inquiring on this is a smart move. I don't want to buy a car that has problems in hot weather. I think thats a reasonable statement. If the recalls have been done on all the new 06 8s that haven't been sold, then I will be less worried.

That is a fair question. The recall has not been done on any car as of today, because the recall has not been released to the dealer yet, as far as what exactly needs to be done, the only thing we have seen is a webinar explaining what the techs will need to do. as soon as the recall is released, next week, all the dealers should perform the recalls on the cars in stock before they are sold, If the recall applies to them, You can always ask your salesman, after next week, if the recall applies to the car your buying, the newer cars may not even need the recall because it may have been done in the dock or by the manufacturer before they got to the dealer. If you want to buy the car today, and it falls within the recall then you will have to bring it back next week, but I would not worry that much about it. I really dont thinki the 06 RX8 are that effected as much as the 04-05

Then this is a fair question, if I was to buy an 06 today, will the issues have been fixed on the ones sitting on the lots?

I like the 8 the same as the next person, but asking questions and inquiring on this is a smart move. I don't want to buy a car that has problems in hot weather. I think thats a reasonable statement. If the recalls have been done on all the new 06 8s that haven't been sold, then I will be less worried.More than likely, the car will be flashed with the new flash before you buy it, assuming that all dealers have the flash available in WDS.
If you're concerned, make sure the dealer does it before signing anything.

The glass is always half empty isnt it...

I'm actually an optimist by nature (believe it or not). Mazda brought this on themselves and people have every right to be skeptical of their motives and methods.

The cars are being tested for lack of power. the cars will be tested at high RPM to see if the RPMs drop rapidly...if the RPMs drops rapidly for no reason, ie your foot is still on the pedal, then you will get a new engine, if it does not drop you will not. If you have had experience in the past where your car has lost power then perhaps you are the 1% that will need an engine...

this has been the on going problem I have had with the car for the last 1 year/12000 miles.....the cars rpm drop and power cuts out.....but it doesnt do it all the time, only after sitting in traffic/getting hot from driving at low speed in hot weather (Orlando, FL). Even then it only does it SOME times.......

because it only happens some times, the dealer can never find it....they experienced it 1 time and replaced the engine (the engine checked out prior to replacement with PERFECT crompression according to the tech...but they still felt the need to replace it. After replacement the car still did the same thing so they replaced the fuel injector wiring harness cause the current one had a short in it.

I got the car back and it ran fine for a few weeks, then did it again, I took it in to get a reflash and have the eccentric shaft position sensor replaced......a few weeks later it came back and I took it in....they couldnt get it to do the problem and gave the car back, within a few mins of driving it the car did it again, I drove with another tech in the car and he saw the problem.

They replaced the fuel pump and its wiring harness.....the problem went away for a few months and recently came back. I took the car in again, this time because the rear bumper was melting around the exhaust pipes, and the muffler itself was BLUE from the heat.

They replaced the muffler and the rear bumper/trim and reflashed the car and said they couldnt get it to do the problem.

The problem is still there and I just experienced it the other day. According to the dealer my rebuilt engine still has compression "with in spec"

I dont want/need a new motor IMO....I need the real problem with the car fixed.....will this recall do that?

I am getting really tired of having a car that randomly shuts off, while im pulling out into traffic, getting on the highway, in the middle of my drive to work.

This car has gotten to the point that its cost me enough time/money/aggrivation.......if they can fix the problem then do it......if not, tell me so I can take action to get rid of the car.......

The car is 100% stock, and runs on 5w20 mineral oil (Castrol GTX, cause its all thats avalible around here).

people have every right to be skeptical of their motives and methods.

WHY?? why be skeptical?? why not wait until next week. WHEN THE FACTS are released. why start a riot when it is not neccesarry? why be paranoid???

this has been the on going problem I have had with the car for the last 1 year/12000 miles.....the cars rpm drop and power cuts out.....but it doesnt do it all the time, only after sitting in traffic/getting hot from driving at low speed in hot weather (Orlando, FL). Even then it only does it SOME times.......

because it only happens some times, the dealer can never find it....they experienced it 1 time and replaced the engine (the engine checked out prior to replacement with PERFECT crompression according to the tech...but they still felt the need to replace it. After replacement the car still did the same thing so they replaced the fuel injector wiring harness cause the current one had a short in it.

I got the car back and it ran fine for a few weeks, then did it again, I took it in to get a reflash and have the eccentric shaft position sensor replaced......a few weeks later it came back and I took it in....they couldnt get it to do the problem and gave the car back, within a few mins of driving it the car did it again, I drove with another tech in the car and he saw the problem.

They replaced the fuel pump and its wiring harness.....the problem went away for a few months and recently came back. I took the car in again, this time because the rear bumper was melting around the exhaust pipes, and the muffler itself was BLUE from the heat.

They replaced the muffler and the rear bumper/trim and reflashed the car and said they couldnt get it to do the problem.

The problem is still there and I just experienced it the other day. According to the dealer my rebuilt engine still has compression "with in spec"

I dont want/need a new motor IMO....I need the real problem with the car fixed.....will this recall do that?

I am getting really tired of having a car that randomly shuts off, while im pulling out into traffic, getting on the highway, in the middle of my drive to work.

This car has gotten to the point that its cost me enough time/money/aggrivation.......if they can fix the problem then do it......if not, tell me so I can take action to get rid of the car.......

The car is 100% stock, and runs on 5w20 mineral oil (Castrol GTX, cause its all thats avalible around here).

sounds like you will be the 1% to get a new engine, that should fix the problem. Your the 1% that the recall came out to fix. Let Mazda replace the engine again, with the update before taking any other actions, but again wait until THE RECALL COMES OUT before calling the dealer. Just wait until next week, make an appointment, and let them do what needs to be done.

found this on consumer affairs

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/mazda_recall.html

Mazda Plans Recall of Troubled RX-8
August 21, 2006

Mazda plans a voluntary recall of all 2004 and 2005 RX-8 sports cars along with some 2006s because of damage to the catalyst resulting from oil leaks in the RX-8's rotary engine.

Mazda is preparing to replace the engines in many of its top of the line sports cars as a result of the recall. Any engine that does not pass a specific vacuum test will be replaced according to Mazda.

Engines prone to failing the vacuum test are mostly in hot climates and use synthetic oils, according to the automaker.

Earlier this month Mazda, in an attempt to soothe intense dealer dissatisfaction with the RX-8 maintenance record, promised dealers that it would no count RX-8 owners' opinions in its internal customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda dealers complained that problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering the Mazda customer-satisfaction results.

A video of the dealer complaints was leaked to a Mazda owners' web site and caused an immediate uproar.

In the video, a member of the Mazda National Dealer Advisory Council states, "Mazda is well aware of the negative impact on the scores caused by the RX-8 surveys. They agreed with us that the situation had to be changed. And so, effective July 1st, RX-8 will be continued to be included in the survey, but the scores will no longer be included in the results."

The engine recall is the latest in a series of problems for the RX-8. Mazda will also check each RX-8's battery and starter, which tend to fail in cold climates.

Mazda has already issued service bulletins on such trouble spots as squeaky brakes and engine flooding. Squeaky brakes on the RX-8 are the subject of three Technical Service Bulletins, according to owners. RX-8 owners have also repeatedly complained of engine flooding to failure.

Mazda executives promise to give the RX-8 "white glove treatment" to finally deal with the problems associated with the sports car.

The automaker has a remanufacturing plant in North Carolina that will rebuild faulty rotary engines and return them to service.

Props to Mazda stepping up (IMO).

I have an 04 (4/03 build date) with 23K miles and have NEVER had one problem with the drivetrain. Im certain I wont need or want a new engine. I have a MT and rev it/redline it on every drive.

Heres the thing, I currently live in the Seattle Wa. area. COOL climate, HIGH humidity, however I may be moving back to Phoenix in a few months, HOT climate, LOW humidity. So will the flash be suffiecient to protect my engine from the Phoenix heat or will my engine crap out next summer?

Then this is a fair question, if I was to buy an 06 today, will the issues have been fixed on the ones sitting on the lots?

I like the 8 the same as the next person, but asking questions and inquiring on this is a smart move. I don't want to buy a car that has problems in hot weather. I think thats a reasonable statement. If the recalls have been done on all the new 06 8s that haven't been sold, then I will be less worried.

Just ask the dealership about the cars on the lot before you buy it. Tell them that you know about the recall and want to see the test result before you want to buy it.

Because, as long as car is not sold, they have to replace everything with new parts, not the remans.

It's federal law.

I can see that this will be the longest thread on this forum by the end of next week!

I can see that this will be the longest thread on this forum by the end of next week!


End of the week??? hell by the end of the day it will be longer then the 'word association' thread. :mdrmed:

WHY?? why be skeptical?? why not wait until next week. WHEN THE FACTS are released. why start a riot when it is not neccesarry? why be paranoid???

Because it is a large corporation, owned by an even larger corporation. Both have had a history of either hushing it all up (pinto, Crown Vic), or sweeping it under the carpet and quietly adressing it without a recall (1999 Miata #4 thrust bearing, FDs tendencies to blow engines, rx-2/3/4, etc.)

Just the fact that it is a large corporation, in my book, is enough to be skeptical. Yes, kudos to Mazda for a voluntary recall.. but still, check your six, bud, and don't fall asleep. You *KNOW* they will NOT tell us the Why and How, just the What.

The What may be good enough for Joe Muggle, but not for me. I wanna know why it failed, and how it failed. To just know that it failed is utterly useless.

Sorry, but for ONCE I'll agree with Ike. They brought the distrust on themselves.

Then again, anyone who trusts a large corporation needs to have their head examined.. imo, of course ;)

Profit over All Else. Any CEO who doesn't espouse that belief is lying, or will be broke in very short order. Profit is all that matters. I see it everyday, and I'm considering a career change because of the Corporate Whore Mentality.

sounds like you will be the 1% to get a new engine, that should fix the problem. Your the 1% that the recall came out to fix. Let Mazda replace the engine again, with the update before taking any other actions, but again wait until THE RECALL COMES OUT before calling the dealer. Just wait until next week, make an appointment, and let them do what needs to be done.

...but thats the thing.........how many people buy a car a need a new motor....let alone inside the warranty period......NOT TO MENTION MAYBE NEEDING 2 MOTORS IN THE FIRST 23K MILES! THATS CRAZY.....and I know some people are on their 3rd or 4th motor in their car and they are still under 50k miles. Mazda made a mistake somewhere and its cost me almost 1 month of my time as well as all the things I COULDNT do with my new car, cause I was unsure it would make it....road trips, vacations to visit friends and show off my new ride. I spent 30k to worry if I will get to work on time today, or if I will get into an accident cause my car turns off when driving........and you, my dealer and mazda NAO tell me to "keep brining it back, we know whats wrong....this will fix it"

My boss has a 93 supra with 150K+ miles on it, stock turbos, stock motor, with just about every bolt-on there is....it goes out to the drag strip and runs 11.20 in the 1/4........his car doesnt need a motor..... and he is running it at almost double the power it came from the factory at..........

I want to know what the exact problem is, and why that problem is there and what is really going to be done to fix the problem....and I dont just mean the problem the car has, I mean the serries of events (taking time off work to give mechanics ride so they know what Im talking about, being late to work, having to change plans at the last min. when the car acts up, the time the car has been out of service, ect) that have caused this "problem" for me.

I really love the car, thats why I bought it. I got out of my way to deal with the problems this car has had, at first I figured it was just the "built on a monday" problem....but as time goes on it seems more like this is something they have found out was a mistake on their part.

after a year of problems, the "this will fix it" gets old.

Thanks for the info!!
Where did you obtain it? Are you a Mazda Tech?

:beer:


he works at a dealer

Originally Posted by ibfubar2000
...The cars are being tested for lack of power. the cars will be tested at high RPM to see if the RPMs drop rapidly, yes high RPM but they will be driven safely (lets not start speculating on the certified technicians damaging your engine because of high RPMs either)...

:eek:

This has me more nervous than the possibility of my engine being bad!

Last thing I want is someone taking my car out for a joy ride because they are green lighted by the corporate office to do so.

. Alot of research went into the RX8 engine issues well before the survey fiasco.

for instance i have been researching it since about june of 05

.. I don't think Mazda is doing this recall solely because of the video leak, but I bet action was taken a little sooner (maybe they weren't going to take action) than they had planned.


no that is not the case- i have been telling everyone that a recall was coming for the engine issue long before the video was even made- and remember im the one that "leaked" it so i should know

this has been the on going problem I have had with the car for the last 1 year/12000 miles.....the cars rpm drop and power cuts out.....but it doesnt do it all the time, only after sitting in traffic/getting hot from driving at low speed in hot weather (Orlando, FL). Even then it only does it SOME times.......



i didnt see it inthe body of your post- did they replace your CAT?

Props to Mazda stepping up (IMO).

So will the flash be suffiecient to protect my engine from the Phoenix heat ?

yes

:eek:

This has me more nervous than the possibility of my engine being bad!

Last thing I want is someone taking my car out for a joy ride because they are green lighted by the corporate office to do so.

tell them you're going with- thats what i will be telling Herzog Meier

ifubar2000, too much information is a dangerous thing...

i didnt see it inthe body of your post- did they replace your CAT?

In a previous post (in this thread) and post back to when the problem started I has explained what happens :

You go WOT and the rpms climb as the car accelerates (feels normal) but sometimes the car will just stop at _____ rpm (varys from 3k rpm to 8k rpm) the revs just sit there, as if it was the rev limiter. Other times the rpm will climb and it will hit _____rpm (again anywhere from 3k to 8k) and the motor just shuts off, you have your foot WOT and the rpms just fall (as if you let off and were coasting in gear).

Both motors have always had perfect compression (in spec and on the high side) and they have serviced :

Coil Packs, Throtle Bodie, TPS sensor, fuel pump, injectors, injector wiring harness, replaced the motor, o2 sensors, speed sensor, ecu, reflashes....ect....

basicaly all the parts of the car that control/monitor some function of the drive train.

To me the problem feels like fuel starvation....

At any rate, they check out the car top to bottom and eveyrthing they test is in spec and there are no problems they can find, but it still has the problem. When the problem first started I got a CEL for a misfire on rotor 2 a total of twice, but not everytime it does it, and recently it hasnt been giving me a CEL but still has the problem.

also, when the car isnt having this problem...it drives perfect. Has great power, good response, idles fine, gets 22mpg in the city and 25mpg on the highway, never overheats, starts up first crank everytime....

ifubar2000, too much information is a dangerous thing...
All the same, a lot of us really appreciate you guys giving us whatever you can, thanks. I am optimistic after hearing this, but I can understand somebody who's looking at their third engine replacement in two years being seriously skeptical. I would be too.

ifubar2000, too much information is a dangerous thing...

yeah, thats why I wasnt too thrilled about posting info without the recall on hand, but thought it was better then nothing.

on a side note, what happened to this thread?? seems to me missing like 10 pages or so. did I miss a thread or something?

I had the power loss problem a few times when my car had been sitting for over a week. I turned off the car and it went away... but the underlying symptom was there.

The dealers up here (mine anyway) in Canada don't seem to be clued in to the issues that Rotary owners are experiencing and I have a good tech (#2 in Canada a few years ago).

I suppose they'll get the recall in due time, but I really wonder if they'll be able to diagnose accurately. After all, it only does the 'power loss' thing sporadically. A complete rundown of the various issues causing power loss needs to be addressed. I am trying to stay positive here... I HOPE the recall will address the fouled plugs, ruined coils, plugged cats, etc in their diagnosis of 'power'.

I truly don't want a new engine either... (especially since it isn't new)

but never the CAT ky - i dont see it in your lists

tell them you're going with- thats what i will be telling Herzog Meier


That is a great idea and was going to request it as well. I'm sure they will tell me the car will need to be left with them all day to try deter me from hanging around. Good thing they have wireless access in the waiting room so I will just "work from home" while I'm waiting for the tech...

Great! Now everyone is going to want to ride along. That will be fine if you want the diagnostic equipment sitting on your lap! We will not be doing anything to your vehicle that it wasnt designed to do. Let the technicians do their job!

but never the CAT ky - i dont see it in your lists

while they havent replaced the cat, I remeber they did say a visual inspection of it looked ok when they repalced the motor.

All the cars I have been around (not an rx8 but many other performance car, including turbo cars) when they have a bad cat, its bad all the time once the car is up to temp, it can cause a CEL in OBDII cars, and it causes backfires, power problems, sometimes overheating...ect.

My car has none of that, while the car does have problems sometimes, I might go 200+ miles bettween problems, and durring that time the car drives fine.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a bad, or on-the-way to bad cat would produce a problem all or most of the time correct? My problem, while still major (IMO) happens frequently, but happens less often than it doesnt, if that makes sense.

Great! Now everyone is going to want to ride along. That will be fine if you want the diagnostic equipment sitting on your lap! We will not be doing anything to your vehicle that it wasnt designed to do. Let the technicians do their job!

there is a useable back seat to these cars.....

besides, more weight = more load = more stress for the car. So it might let some problems surface that wouldnt normaly come out with 1 tech in the car driving.

When my problem happens, 75% of the time it happens when I get on the throtle after 1hr of sitting in stop/go traffic (avg spd of 5mph) in near 100% weather with the A/C on. By this point the hood and fenders are so hot you cant touch them....most every system of the car is fully "heat soaked" and when I get on it, the problem happens, although it can also do it after a 1 hr drive on the freeway in 78* air doing 75mph in 6th gear, when most systems in the car are cool/warm to the touch.

KY: Here's a real stupid question. Have you ever had your fuel filter replaced?

dude ask dmp if a bad cat always causes a cel. it doesnt.

Great! Now everyone is going to want to ride along. That will be fine if you want the diagnostic equipment sitting on your lap! !

i of course wouldnt mind the PDS sitting in my lap at least its smaller than the wds. besides its got back seats too you know:)

KY: Here's a real stupid question. Have you ever had your fuel filter replaced?

Yeah, i didnt include everything that has been checked/serviced but its been quite a bit of stuff :

Fuel System : replaced fuel pump, replaced fuel filter, replaced fuel pump wiring harness, replaced fuel injector wiring harness, checked injectors, checked intake manifold/intake valves, checked throtle body, checked TPS, check the TPS under the trotle pedal, replaced coil packs, replaced spark plugs/wires, replace motor, checked o2 sensors, visual check of cat, replaced muffler (from the cat back) replaced bumper trim, checked transmission/differential, checked vacuum lines, checked the ECU, run various diagnostics on the different systems of the car, run compression checks, lots of "visual inpections".....ect.

That is what the dealer says they have done, some of it has been put on invoices, some of it is just what they say they did. I have seen some of the used parts from the car.

Oh, damn, this is one depressing thread. I'm happy we didn't do any of the engine mods yet.

We did have to replace our battery this spring, it croaked.

dude ask dmp if a bad cat always causes a cel. it doesnt.

im not saying just throwing a CEL.

The car will drive fine for say 2 tanks of gas (just over 500 miles)....by "fine" i mean has good power/response, gets good miliage, will hit rev limiter on comand in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears, as well as neutral. no CELs, no problems what so ever.

I would think a failing or failed cat would produce some signifigant driving problems all or most of the time.

Through reading this thread I kept on hearing R.E.M.'s "End of the World" song in my head.

When the recall comes out I'll be dropping my car off and part of me will hope for a new engine though it will be a small part. I got mine used so the gods only know if it was broken in properly. I'm just gonna wait till its released to the dealers officaly though I will make a quick comment about it when I go in to get my visor replaced and um this mythical "Headlight Restoration Kit" done to my car.

I've only once experinced loss of power in VT after about 5 hours of spirited driving after shifting into 4th (04' A/T) rev's and speed fell slowly. But my A/C was on so I chaulked it up to that.

Atleast Mazda is stepping up about this known issue, sure our lil find thanks to Zoom44 about the surveys might of sped up this recall but I dont believe Mazda would just up and say "I know we'll shut them up by replacing their engines!" on a whim. I'd assume 6 months to a year of thought went into this and you know Ford had a say in this to.

Hmm.. maybe if I need a new engine I can convince them to give me a Shelby engine hehe j/k.

they've been working on this since last spring/summer the video posting has nothing to do with the timing

I would think a failing or failed cat would produce some signifigant driving problems all or most of the time.


My cat failed at 56,00km NO time was their any warning signs no driving problems in fact the car ran at its best 2 weeks prior to it being totally burnt out .

Check your ignition coils one may be faulty .

Michael

So if they're running diagnostics - will this be via an under-dash access port or will they need to screw around under the hood?

So why aren't the same problems occurring in Australia and Malaysia, which are both pretty hot places, no? Seems like Australia would be a torture test ground for RX-8's, maybe.

-Kabong

Zoom44 - Holy crap! Does my 8 still stand a chance to be fixed then? I hope so. Most likely mine will be going for its 4th engine in a month (check the "Who belongs to the new engine club post" in the Issues & Problems). I officially first reported the issue w/ my engine back in May of '05 to the dealership here in Vegas. I'm kind of optimistic that Mazda is stepping up but also kind of agree w/ Ike that they are just trying to patch things up as best as they can. I'll keep on keeping my fingers crossed.

vegas.

Yeah, I know, what a tired subject...

But I've been using synthetic oil since after break-in until last change
(mostly mobil 1, some readline, tried GC one change). Last change - on
the advice of oil-expert Terry Dyson - I switched to regular havoline 5w20
(got a couple of oil analyses from blackstone prior to this, which
were a bit mixed.)

Well, it's been 1200 miles on the havoline so far but one thing is
beginning to seem clear - I am using less oil. I usually use about
2 to 2.5 qt between changes (@4K miles) - yeah I know its a lot, but
it's been like that since the start - now I can see the level has dropped
a bit on the dipstick, but really rather little. No point in adding more, it's
still basically full. But I've _never_ driven 1000 miles before or even close
without a large, obvious, decline in level that requires a top up.

I'm curious to see whether this continues, maybe it is just a random thing
(its only 1200 miles after all, but on the other hand it seems a pretty
dramatic change given what I am used to). But if it's real, I wonder if there's any
explanation and it's possibly relevent to this thread.

(And yes, driving conditions, driving style, freeway vs highway, are
all essentially constant).

They will be replacing with the Mazdaspeed 6 engine including a bigger stock turbo for their flagship car. :rofl:

Agree this has been somewhat of a depressing speculation thread. :tear:

You know, I would prolly have my car lemon lawed if I had to have the engine replaced more than once. I think having the dealer monkey around in there that much is just asking for trouble.

im not saying just throwing a CEL.

The car will drive fine for say 2 tanks of gas (just over 500 miles)....by "fine" i mean has good power/response, gets good miliage, will hit rev limiter on comand in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears, as well as neutral. no CELs, no problems what so ever.

I would think a failing or failed cat would produce some signifigant driving problems all or most of the time.

have a resonated mid pipe you can slap on... did you ever premix???? i know we talked about it..

beers :beer:

You know, I would prolly have my car lemon lawed if I had to have the engine replaced more than once. I think having the dealer monkey around in there that much is just asking for trouble.

sorry to ever expand on this thread, but this is what I was thinking.......??? Granted my 8 is relatively new and hasn't caused me a moment of grief, but if I had the problems that others are facing, I'd lemon-law the thing in a heartbeat..................

Your suplemental warranty manual lists lemon law statutes by states. .............

I called my dealer today to see what they knew about it and they said they didn't think it applied to me, even though mine was one of the early build 06s (arrived in first shipment). Allegedly, if your 06 VIN ends with the last four digits under 1000 it applies to you. Again, they said they didn't know for sure since they don't have the information on what 06s are affected, if there actually were any. I don't know what this means. They said they would know either at the end of this week or early next week, but I will be on vacation so I won't be able to call them. The tech also said it was rumored that part of the problem was believed to be too thin oil recommended for use in the US market as opposed to other countries, which could cause less lubrication.

I'm not too worried about what this means for my car. I check and top my oil every week. I do get my revs up (although don't drive around with them high constantly) and redline one time per trip. The only time I have seemed to have an issue with "power loss" was the time I sat on I-205 for two hours almost exclusively idling although on occasion would move at about 5 mph for up to maybe 100 feet. The ambient temperature reading was 114 degrees. The car felt a little sluggish but the rpms didn't drop or do anything like what was described earlier in this thread. I attributed this to the high heat and wasn't overly worried about it happening. I thought possibly the car was starting to overheat by that time, as I saw numerous vehicles on the side of the road overheated that day. I did notice, though, that my oil was down half a quart after that day of driving. I had checked and topped it the day before and then drove that trip. My step-uncle told me I would want to check my oil again, so I did and it had dropped half a quart in that day.

last four of my vin be 1926.....o snap, i wanted a new engine anyway!

who cares about needin a new engine ITS FREEEEEE

fresh start, better yet take the new engine and sell it on ebay for the $ to get a 13b rew dumped in there or a 20b or an f20 or rb26dett or 2jzgte or a sr20det or a gasp....vq35de
hell while we r goin nuts, thro in a ej25 for all i care, aslong as it fits!

the list goes on stuffing whatever u want in there!




anyone else not see a negative here!

just some help,

this explains a lot to the people in the usa.

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=1492418&postcount=4

i have know about this for a while, and i am one of the ones with the problem..

beers :beer:

Great! Now everyone is going to want to ride along. That will be fine if you want the diagnostic equipment sitting on your lap! We will not be doing anything to your vehicle that it wasnt designed to do. Let the technicians do their job!


Who is preventing them from doing their job? It is my car and I have a right to know how it is being driven.

Who is preventing them from doing their job? It is my car and I have a right to know how it is being driven.I think the techs want to quickly get the job done (the dealership is probably being paid fixed cost for the recall repairs) and is not interested in driving the balls off your car. They will probably hold it at higher RPMs in 2nd gear on the highway or something like that, and will not be testing your tires' adhesion limits.

I can't believe this thing is 17 pages in one day!


Im waiting for Mazda to release the official "engine/carbon cleaning by water injection" test.

Mine goes in for service tommorow (air bag light). Can't wait to talk to them about this. Had my 04 8 couple weeks no problems with engine yet. (knock on wood)

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/mazda_recall.html

Great! Now everyone is going to want to ride along. That will be fine if you want the diagnostic equipment sitting on your lap! We will not be doing anything to your vehicle that it wasnt designed to do. Let the technicians do their job!



AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!