After the whole Mazda controversy, BMW decided to step in and lower the price of the 325i due to the fact that it only makes 185 HP and originally cost $35,000. Customers didn't care that the ride was smooth and the comfort level and quality was top notch...they preferred to get at least 280 HP for their money.

Listen to how ridiculous this sounds. This is the mentality a lot of you have about the RX8. It's just plain stupid.

Good one! ;)

Well I guess you have an appropriate forum name.

Take a step back buddy.

I am just trying to show how everyone's thinking lately is just plain dumb. There are a lot of cars with higher price tags that make LESS horsepower than the RX8 does.

The entry level BMW 325i is one of them, making 185, but that doesn't seem to hurt their sales.

I think the main problem may be that the RX-8 was advertised with 247hp (now 238, next 225???) and the BMW was always advertised with 185.

Some of use just want what we thought we were getting in the first place.

I have used a similar argument before. To some people a car with good performance from a low-powered engine is impressive (e.g. Lotus Elise), but other people only see the low-powered HP number and stop looking any further.

Imagine this: Mazda had always rated the 6MT RX-8 at 200hp, and it dynoed at 180rwhp (only 10% drivetrain loss!). But it did the 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds. Is that good or bad? Personally I would love it.

Now imagine this: Mazda had always rated the 6MT RX-8 at 300hp, and it dynoed at 250rwhp. But it did the 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds. Is that good or bad?


IMO I think Mazda made a mistake coming out with a small (unbelievable?) correction of 238hp. They should have said 220hp (similar to a BMW 330i, more than a Lexus IS300). If you are going to apologize and correct something, make sure EVERYONE trusts the correction even if you think you are under-rating. Sure there would be more returns from the people who think the HP number is all-important, but at least the new number would be trusted by almost everyone. Now Mazda still looks bad for yet another 'optimistic' HP claim.

While most of what everyone says in this thread is true, it is equally evident that none of you have a sense of humor. Did you not detect the "subtle" irony in the original post? For more discussion along these lines, please go to Flaming Jerks (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=105821#post105821). :)

$20K? Wow I better get out and get a 325i ;)

Just wish the RX8 had gas mileage as good as the lotus!

Originally posted by Steve T
I think the main problem may be that the RX-8 was advertised with 247hp (now 238, next 225???) and the BMW was always advertised with 185.

Some of use just want what we thought we were getting in the first place.
Exactly. There is nothing "wrong" with the RX-8 as it is right now.. People are just upset the Mazda advertised and actually hyped record hp numbers for a NA rotary with decent fuel economy and did not deliver in the end. I'll probably still get the 8 next spring, especially if some hp can be regained through "regular" mods.. I just won't pay msrp for it. http://webhome.idirect.com/~jsmialek/Smileys/thumbup.gif

Exactly. There is nothing "wrong" with the RX-8 as it is right now.. People are just upset the Mazda advertised and actually hyped record hp numbers for a NA rotary with decent fuel economy and did not deliver in the end. I'll probably still get the 8 next spring, especially if some hp can be regained through "regular" mods.. I just won't pay msrp for it.

ditto

Originally posted by pelucidor
Now imagine this: Mazda had always rated the 6MT RX-8 at 300hp, and it dynoed at 250rwhp. But it did the 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds. Is that good or bad?
It's bad because you still have to sidestep the clutch at 8,000 RPM to actually attain those numbers. Even with all 247 horses in working order, in routine driving, a stock RX-8 is going to have a hard time keeping pace with something like a G35 Coupe or Mustang GT in a straight line. But the RX-8 driver will be having a lot more fun when the road starts curving.

Personally, I want to have fun the whole time, so please tell me when BMW lowers the price of the 330i with Performance Package to $30K? :)

-Dan

Buy a used E36 M3 :)

-bd

God steve awsome cars!! Vipers are so nice!

Originally posted by RX8Lover
After the whole Mazda controversy, BMW decided to step in and lower the price of the 325i due to the fact that it only makes 185 HP and originally cost $35,000. Customers didn't care that the ride was smooth and the comfort level and quality was top notch...they preferred to get at least 280 HP for their money.

Listen to how ridiculous this sounds. This is the mentality a lot of you have about the RX8. It's just plain stupid.

Exactly, I agree. Good post!

As for that 325 Bimmer, you may get it at a discount $20k, but you'll end up putting that $15k savings back into it through maintenance costs.

Originally posted by zerohour
God steve awsome cars!! Vipers are so nice!

And so expensive. * SIGH * :( Maybe someday, when I hit the lottery.

One of the reasons I pulled the 325i off my list was because I didn't feel the power it offered justified it's price. Given that parameter, what am I to think of the RX8? Is it worth the price with my new EVAP from Mazda ( to take care of the insistent CEL) that dropped my MPG by 6 MPG, added a bunch of "gunk" to my exhaust, and lowered my HP?

Why the heck must price reflect power? This is something people will never understand. A $200,000 Bentley does 0-60 in over 8 seconds. Does that prevent people from buying it? NO. it is for the overall package that people buy cars.

Also, the RX8 can do 0-60 in anywhere between 5.9 and 6.5 seconds. How the hell fast do you want to go? Forget what the horsepower NUMBER is. My Eclipse Turbo made only 210 HP (crap numbers in your mind), but still manged to get to 60 in 6 seconds.

Everyone needs to stop being so narrow-minded and get past the HP issue. Its how you use the car! Even if it made 250 HP, every driver isnt the same and may not be able to achieve the same acceleration numbers.

Jeez.

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Why the heck must price reflect power? This is something people will never understand. A $200,000 Bentley does 0-60 in over 8 seconds. Does that prevent people from buying it? NO. it is for the overall package that people buy cars.


That is exactly what many of us have been trying to stress on this thread, and many others. It is the overall package, not just horsepower, that many of us choose the RX-8 in the first place and are keeping it.

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Also, the RX8 can do 0-60 in anywhere between 5.9 and 6.5 seconds. How the hell fast do you wnt to go?

Obviously, some people feel they have the need to get to the next stoplight in .2 seconds faster then most. Hence why they wanted the "Kick-ass 247HP RX-8" rather then the "POS 238HP RX-8". BTW, these are probably some of the same people, 0-60mph "racers", that are complaining about low MPG's.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster

Obviously, some people feel they have the need to get to the next stoplight in .2 seconds faster then most. Hence why they wanted the "Kick-ass 247HP RX-8" rather then the "POS 238HP RX-8". BTW, these are probably some of the same people, 0-60mph "racers", that are complaining about low MPG's.
Incorrect. Most people are complaining about the low mpg they are getting while driving "normal", NOT stop light racing.

Regarding price/power reflection. This car was/is marketed by Mazda as a "4 door sports car", can we agree on that? Thus horsepower/straight line performance while not being EVERYTHING is a very large PART of the whole package/car. We all know that Joe Public and recently car manufacturers have been absorbed by the hp. You see the hp numbers in every advertisement, heck even a chrysler minivan touts hp and 0-60 numbers. So many people including us potential buyers see these numbers hyped by Mazda along with 1/4 mile acceleration numbers and expect them to be achieved or close to it. Right now in the US the Renesis looks to be putting down on average 180whp and 1/4 mile numbers in the 14.9 and above area. So I think some of the current owners and prospective buyers have a right to feel a little dissappointedn given the hp and mpg hype. :(

edit: I'm not saying the Renesis is not capable of those numbers but it looks like the North American emission map is preventing it from producing them.

This is not say that this car is all of a sudden a POS, far from it. But since it is a "sports car" and a major component of the sports car equation has changed significantly, 20-25 whp IS significant in a car that weighs 3000lbs, it will be talked and bitched about. I bet most current owners would forgo any compensation if Mazda could reflash the ECU and bingo! 205whp. I know I would.

So people have some interesting decisions to make right now.. take the payoff, keep the car and hope Mazda somehow "fixes" the issue down the road? How will this issue affect the resale value? Will it kill the car altogether and 4 years down the road it will be very hard to find parts or a mechanic to fix it? Etc.. There is more here at stake than the fact that "the car feels the same, keep it stupid". Every owners' personal situation is different.. What about those that are leasing? Their buyback might not reflect the market value of the car anymore.

Personally the 8 is still #1 on my list as of next spring, it's the car that fits my needs the most. I do prefer better handling and a lighter car over hp and straight line performance without handling/brakes. I like high revving engines. I will definitely not pay msrp for it though.. Unless the Canadian cars have different ECU maps and thus make more hp than the US ones. We should have Canadian dyno numbers soon, it will be interesting to see the result.

You guys all make very good points, but as I put more miles on my RX8, things seem to be going in a steady downward spiral.

There is definitely an emmissions "gothcha" that Mazda has to address (at least with mine). My MPG has dropped to about 14 in a steady 50-50 mix of city/highway. Only a couple of redlines have been done since break-in is finished and I've been driving pretty conservatively. As the weather has been in the high 80s/low 90s, the A/C is proving to be a disappointment, too.

So, I can just "bite the bullet", take the money/maintenance or give the RX8 back and get something that's been more fully tested and realized (like the 350Z/G35C) and go on my merry way.

The reason this is such a tough decision is because of the lack of pallatable explanations from Mazda. If they were to come out and say "hey guys....thanks for supporting the RX8, but here are the real issues with the car....we expect to have a fix in "x" time frame. At that time, we'll either give you a $1,000 credit coupon to buy the "improved" model if you keep yours, or we'll retrofit your current ride for free to make it what it was supposed to be".

That'll cost Mazda about the same as the buyback or money/ free maintenance choices.

My point is, the horsepower drop isn't the deal breaker here. It's just a symptom of a bigger issue and Mazda won't tell us what that "bigger issue" is.

Why on earth do you think Mazda is offering to buy back potentially 1,000-1,500 nearly new cars? That's almost unheard of in the auto industry.


My guess would be to somehow "put a lid" on a potential fiasco.

Originally posted by Quick_lude

Incorrect. Most people are complaining about the low mpg they are getting while driving "normal", NOT stop light racing.



DID you read my post? I said SOME people. I did not say most. Maybe you need to reread it.

Jeez, you argue just for the sake of arguing. You start becoming argumentive and defensive, to such a extreme that you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. Unbelievable.

Originally posted by graphicguy
Why on earth do you think Mazda is offering to buy back potentially 1,000-1,500 nearly new cars? That's almost unheard of in the auto industry.

My guess would be to somehow "put a lid" on a potential fiasco.

I see your point of view ("putting a lid on it"), however I guess I'm the optimist and take the opposite view.

I believe Mazda is offering the buy back as a good faith to those that have already purchased the vehicle. Either through fault on their own (marketing), or things out of their control (stricter emission), or whatever, Mazda knew the had to restate the HP rating. They did that. Out of fairness to those owners that felt they got "cheated" out of the 9 HP, they offered the buyback.