I'm wondering if Mazda is going to knock off a few digits from the MSRP of all the 8s following the announcement of their overrated power figures.

I doubt they will lower MSRP.

If they do lower MSRP, it won't be before October. If MSRP dropped now, all current owners would be much more likely to opt for buyback. I'm pretty sure Mazda doesn't want people opting for the buyback.

A better question is; will we be able to get them at lower than MSRP or close to INVOICE.


hmmm.....

I figure once they sit for a while, the dealers will be forced to sell them at invoice.

Well shouldn't the MSRP go down by $500? :confused:

why would the msrp go down? it's still the same parts involved....just the performance wasn't a pitty 12 horse power more...i still love the car, and for anyone selling theirs i hope u miss it :(

Originally posted by umpuck
why would the msrp go down? it's still the same parts involved....just the performance wasn't a pitty 12 horse power more...i still love the car, and for anyone selling theirs i hope u miss it :(

I agree- why would they knock off MSRP? You're still getting the same performance as advertised- HP is really only a number. Now, you may be able to talk some dealers down a bit to less than MSRP, but there's no reason to lower it over 9 freakin' hp.

Why should they lower the price? It's supply and demand, not horsepower.

Originally posted by Elara
You're still getting the same performance as advertised- HP is really only a number.
...there's no reason to lower it over 9 freakin' hp.

That's exactly the way Mazda want people to think. You believe what he marketing folks want you to believe.
9 HP is what they admitted to - so far. However, based on the dyno tests of owners and findings of magazines, there seems to be a lot more deficiency than just 9 HP.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to bash this car - on contrary, I'm a wannabe owner too. However, to say that this current controversy makes me think uneasy is a significant understatement.

Originally posted by Elara


I agree- why would they knock off MSRP? You're still getting the same performance as advertised- HP is really only a number. Now, you may be able to talk some dealers down a bit to less than MSRP, but there's no reason to lower it over 9 freakin' hp.


It's not 9 frigging hp! That's the whole point. The same people who claims this 9hp deficit are the same people who claimed 250hp in the first place. I don't know why some of you still have so much faith in anything Mazda USA says. (besides the legal papers anyhow)

Mazda stated 247hp before last week and 'stood by the number' base on e-mails received from forum members. Now they are claiming 238hp, what's to stop them from making false claims again? The 170-180whp dyno numbers havn't changed. The MSRP likely won't change in the next 2 months because Mazda knows that will really tick off current owners. However~ I seriously doubt too many informed consumers will be buying the car at MSRP. (especially people who have been accessing this forum)

Originally posted by Tamas


That's exactly the way Mazda want people to think. You believe what he marketing folks want you to believe.
9 HP is what they admitted to - so far. However, based on the dyno tests of owners and findings of magazines, there seems to be a lot more deficiency than just 9 HP.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to bash this car - on contrary, I'm a wannabe owner too. However, to say that this current controversy makes me think uneasy is a significant understatement.


You miss the point. The car performs as specified. Isn't that what's important? Is the only reason you buy cars because of hp? It doesn't really matter what *I* think about the hp issue, if it's a problem for you, wait a while and test drive one, then decide. Don't speculate based on statements that may or may not have any basis in truth on an internet bb.

And no, I'm not a sheep. I don't believe what everyone tells me. I work in the advertising department of a major automotive retailer- for goodness sake. Instead, I drove the car and decided for myself, and this missing hp is a non-issue whether it's 9 or 20. There's really no reason for Mazda to reduce MSRP on this car.

Whether or not the missing HP is not the problem in my eyes. Its the trust factor, they lied about it and only revised it after being called on it. Plus this is the second time they've done something like this. Honestly I think they should knock off a couple hundred bucks off the price, sure a couple of hundred isn't squat. But it goes a long way to towards rebuilding the trust issue. Just my 2cents. And it didn't perform as spec'd now did it or it would have had the extras horse's. Missing those means it doesn't meet the advertised specs.

I have to laugh when Skyline makes the comments he does... "only 9 horsepower SO FAR"... as if Mazda would withhold the truth about it.

There's a reason they wouldn't... law suits. If Mazda is incorrect in stating the horsepower the first time around, then a pass can be given to them because they didn't account for a few variables (ie, emissions). Second time around Mazda won't be that lucky and if the horsepower is reduced further then I'm sure there will be a quick lawsuit over this, and many will partake (myself included, depending on the level of deception and the circumstances).

The fact of the matter is, the people that aren't satisfied with the power have their way out. Give the car back. If they like it, keep it, take $500, free maintenence and shut the hell up. The options are there so if you want to take the $500 and STILL complain, I find it to be rather pointless.

Also on a related note, I really enjoy how the most 'outraged' people about this are non-owners of the car. Innundated with the 350Z, G35, WRX, and other car owners that have flocked to this board to give their 2 cents on this subject (and the majority of the regulars here giving them their 2 cents back), really degrades from the quality of conversation we've had till this point. I found Skyline to be a constant advertisement for the Infiniti G35C and a troll otherwise, but it seems that the lack of moderation on these forums has merely bought about more of the same. At least BOOSTD 7 (the admin of all people) came and started banning a few of the trolls. Sadly we cannot rely on the super moderators here to do that job, we have to wait until a busy administrator sees the site being ruined by trolls and has to clean it up himself, which makes a case for the uselessness of the moderators to curb the discussions that lead astray or start the typical trollishness (not a word, I know :) ) that many, many members complain about. In a sense I'm glad I'm no longer a moderator, because I had no power to curb these discussions and my anger about it simply was cause enough for me not to be a moderator any longer.

There are more members than me that complain about these trolls that visit the site with no valid input, and remarks that if reversed and it was RX-8 members visiting <enter site here> would promptly be banned. I wish we'd have more stringent posting guidelines so that issues as severe as the dyno and power issue can be discussed at length without the sophomoric attitude of the trolls that frequently ruin the flow of questions, comments, and concerns about the RX-8.

I am still curious about the actual power output of the RX-8 but I like to read facts and a *bit* of speculation. I don't need G35 and WRX owners telling me I have a crap car. If I felt that way I'd be returning it too.

Originally posted by Elara

You miss the point. The car performs as specified. Isn't that what's important? Is the only reason you buy cars because of hp?
During the test ride, most of us drove around town and had perhaps a moment of spirited driving. The car certainly performs well driving around town. Since that constitutes most of our driving, we won't notice the missing top end power. So, you have a point there Elara.

A few of us were hoping to have some track days occasionally, and in that scenario the drop off in power above 6250 RPM may be quite noticeable. We have to rely on the manufacturer's claims and motor magazine reviews to compare between cars for that purpose. So I think the "performs as specified" means something else to some other people in this forum.

You and the person you are criticising are both right and IMHO, both should try to see the other's point of view as well.

For me, personally, the car has met my expectations on most counts but has fallen short on some. There isn't a reasonable "practical but distinctive sports car" alternative to it right now so I am torn, as I am sure some of the other silent owners are. On this forum, no one likes to bad mouth the car we have waited so long to acquire. I wonder how I would feel a year from now on seeing a 2005 RX-8 that has fixed all the issues we see reported here, like horsepower, fuel mileage, hot air from vents, etc.
And yet, I can't wait another year. I really like this car ... but I don't want a lemon.

Thanks for reading this "confessional"!

so you would trust someone if they paid you?

and since when is any car company someone you trust?

this whole thing is silly, the car still runs the same #'s as it did in the magazine, reguardless if the window sticker says 250 or 5,000,000.

mike

Can you show me where it says it runs the same numbers as in the mags?

Here is an intresting point. Today 8/25 I happen to go out to lunch w/ a friend. We drove past a Mazda dealer - Not the one I ordered my car from- They happen to have four RX-8 on the lot. We stopped so my friend could get a first hand look at it. (it is a dealer on bird Road/ Miami) Guess what. The crooks still are selling 5K OVER MSRP. Yep, unbelievable. My deaker in Broward county is at MSRP/ w no further mark up. Also, this Mazda dealer wanted in addition to the extra 5K, a $795 dealer prep. so as of now, no--they have not dropped in price. at least in Miami.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac



It's not 9 frigging hp! That's the whole point. The same people who claims this 9hp deficit are the same people who claimed 250hp in the first place. I don't know why some of you still have so much faith in anything Mazda USA says. (besides the legal papers anyhow)

Mazda stated 247hp before last week and 'stood by the number' base on e-mails received from forum members. Now they are claiming 238hp, what's to stop them from making false claims again? The 170-180whp dyno numbers havn't changed. The MSRP likely won't change in the next 2 months because Mazda knows that will really tick off current owners. However~ I seriously doubt too many informed consumers will be buying the car at MSRP. (especially people who have been accessing this forum)

Skyline must you spout the same drivel on all these threads? You're not going to buy an RX-8, that's quite obvious. We don't need to re-read your comments anymore (God what I wouldn't give for an ignore option).

Put your money where your mouth is and either buy one, or buy one of the competitions that you're so apt to point out as a better value.

Sorry for de-railing the thread. I can't stand his propaganda anymore.

Originally posted by Kuf


Skyline must you spout the same drivel on all these threads? You're not going to buy an RX-8, that's quite obvious. We don't need to re-read your comments anymore (God what I wouldn't give for an ignore option).

Put your money where your mouth is and either buy one, or buy one of the competitions that you're so apt to point out as a better value.

Sorry for de-railing the thread. I can't stand his propaganda anymore.

Enough already!
I own one, probably the first one delivered in Canada.

I do not believe for a moment the claim of 238HP
Based on the dyno test, and the 1/4 mile times claimed 220 is much more likely.

When the car was tested by the magazines this spring, and people commented on the fact that it seemed a bit light in the power department the Mazda people pulled teh cars from the tests, and made some bullshit claim about some valve sticking.
Now we now it was just the first lie.

I am really sick of the endless line of "If you don't like it give it back".

"Give it back for the refund" is not a useful option for many of us.
I, for example already sold my previous car, after 19 months of owning it, to buy this car. I took a pretty good loss in selling it after that short a time of ownership, but I was willing to take taht write-down to get the RX-8 as specified.
If I give it back, then what?

It seems some people here would rather spout that gibberish than admit to themselves that they got screwed by Mazda.

This is not a first time, this is not an oddity.
Mazda have been caught lying before.
Let's get over the stupid pride and call them to account.
We deserve to get what we paid for.

Just wanted to say quickly that the car still costs the same to build, ship, market, etc. I can't imagine there'd be any decrease in MSRP.

A lot of the comments I have read about the horsepower loss subject have been quite childish. I am sorry if you feel that Mazda is the bad guy because the car is producing less power at the wheels than they advertised, 238HP is about right considering drivetrain loss for 170-180RWHP. Mazda has formed a very quick response for corporate time, and are doing something very proactive on their part but all a lot of people can do is complain. Your average consumer could hardly care less, if you bought a Ford Taurus rated at 200hp and it only made 110whp are you going to go crying to ford to give you $5,000 off MSRP? Dealers charge what they charge for the cars, if you dont want to pay that much you can always negotiate it or go buy from another dealership. Ever thought that maybe Mazda and these car dealerships are business trying to make money? Of course they are going to try and get everything they can. I ordered my RX-8 knowing the horsepower issues and now that Mazda has made an official statement I wont be cancelling my order or selling back to the dealership, thats ludicrous, I bought it for what it is, a sporty, great looking, decent performing, and well designed car. It still performs just as good as it did in all these magazine tests, running mid to high 14 second 1/4 miles, which puts it pretty close to all of its competitors that arent even really the competition Mazda is targeting with this car.

Originally posted by Icemastr
A lot of the comments I have read about the horsepower loss subject have been quite childish.

If you think that the power LIE is no problem, then why are you here reading and posting to this forum topic?

Or do you work for Mazda ??

Originally posted by Icemastr
A 238HP is about right considering drivetrain loss for 170-180RWHP.

You are smoking crack if you think that 24-29% drivetrain loss is "about right." I would expect to see that kind of loss on an automatic AWD car, not a manual rwd car. Hell, a 2wd auto shouldn't have more than a 22% loss to the wheels...

Originally posted by canzoomer
If you think that the power LIE is no problem, then why are you here reading and posting to this forum topic?

Or do you work for Mazda ?? If you think a stupid number is such a big deal, why don't you just take the buyback option and get rid of the car and buy something from a company you can "trust" rather than continue to whine about Mazda here?

Stomp your foot on the ground and cry "I want what Mazda promised!!!" all you want, it's not going to happen. You've got two choices but if Mazda's really such trustless bastards you'd best get out now while you can.

During the test ride, most of us drove around town and had perhaps a moment of spirited driving. The car certainly performs well driving around town. Since that constitutes most of our driving, we won't notice the missing top end power. So, you have a point there Elara.

A few of us were hoping to have some track days occasionally, and in that scenario the drop off in power above 6250 RPM may be quite noticeable. We have to rely on the manufacturer's claims and motor magazine reviews to compare between cars for that purpose. So I think the "performs as specified" means something else to some other people in this forum.

You and the person you are criticising are both right and IMHO, both should try to see the other's point of view as well.

For me, personally, the car has met my expectations on most counts but has fallen short on some. There isn't a reasonable "practical but distinctive sports car" alternative to it right now so I am torn, as I am sure some of the other silent owners are. On this forum, no one likes to bad mouth the car we have waited so long to acquire. I wonder how I would feel a year from now on seeing a 2005 RX-8 that has fixed all the issues we see reported here, like horsepower, fuel mileage, hot air from vents, etc.
And yet, I can't wait another year. I really like this car ... but I don't want a lemon.

Thanks for reading this "confessional"!

The best post ive read so far.

I think some of you owners are a little too defensive about your cars and I can understand why completely. You would probably haave some of the same concerns as the "troll non-owners" if you hadnt gotten yours yet.

Has anybody looked into the idea that they are doing this to cover up a lawsuit? maybe we can actually take mazda for more than the cash back deal and the service?

Has anybody looked into the idea that they are doing this to cover up a lawsuit? maybe we can actually take mazda for more than the cash back deal and the service? This might totally violate a the consumer protection laws.

The only thng i can think of as far as the emmissions that would kill HP would be tha computer, cat, and muffler so if there is a different cat in Japan that they had to change out for the U.S. to pass emmissions then we might be able to order it and gain that power back W/O jacking up the O2 sensors and/or a change in the computer. Couldn't this power be made up by a K&N filter and different muffler?

Originally posted by Hercules


There's a reason they wouldn't... law suits. If Mazda is incorrect in stating the horsepower the first time around, then a pass can be given to them because they didn't account for a few variables (ie, emissions). Second time around Mazda won't be that lucky and if the horsepower is reduced further then I'm sure there will be a quick lawsuit over this, and many will partake (myself included, depending on the level of deception and the circumstances).



Actually, when you check the $500 option or buyback option you are signing a legal waiver. It could be found they are still not telling the truth, but if you take one of the options you CAN"T hold them accountable anymore.

canzoomer:We deserve to get what we paid for. At the risk of repeating the obvious, and assuming the Canadian deal is the same as the US', you will have two options:
1) Take the maintenance deal and hope that magically we "get what we paid for" at some future date, though taking the deal removes Mazda's obligation to do that for us.

or

2) "If you don't like it give it back". (Sorry I couldn't resist.)

Those really are your two useful options. Ranting about something that is not on the table is a third option, but it is not useful.

Originally posted by RX-MEN-8
Here is an intresting point. Today 8/25 I happen to go out to lunch w/ a friend. We drove past a Mazda dealer - Not the one I ordered my car from- They happen to have four RX-8 on the lot. We stopped so my friend could get a first hand look at it. (it is a dealer on bird Road/ Miami) Guess what. The crooks still are selling 5K OVER MSRP. Yep, unbelievable. My deaker in Broward county is at MSRP/ w no further mark up. Also, this Mazda dealer wanted in addition to the extra 5K, a $795 dealer prep. so as of now, no--they have not dropped in price. at least in Miami.

RX-MEN-8: That's absolutely horrible. You should report those bastards to Mazda.

By the way, which package and color are you getting on your RX-8? I bet you can negotiate with them more if you have one of the more expensive packages..

Stop complaining...if the 10 or 20hp is such a big deal why did you buy the car...i mean i am sure u test drove the car befor purchase and if u didnt then Heck you really need to think befor buying something 30k+....i am going to purchase the car either way...just waiting for the dealer to call me when the one i want gets in...but still...yeah a little drop in price would be cool...but i would rather have them just state the lower hp number cause that lowers insurance rates....think about that...also Mazda is so cool...they didnt have to offer a buy back on the car or anything for that matter...the reason being is cause all their published materials i.e their ads state the specifications on the car could change at ANY time....be happy you got the RX-8...if u dont like it know then maybe you bought it to bein with just to own it and now you want something different...you made a choice now stick with it or take the loss...sorry for the ranting but i cant stand the people who complain about 9hp...thats like adding an intake to the car...