What are you guys going to do? Keeping mine for sure, just wish the service can be redeemed for cash...

Like I've said before, the car drives just the same as when I tested it and a little number is unimportant to me. I'll take the free 500 bucks and hope I can convince my daler to cancell my extended warranty and give me the free one. Anyway it workls out I figure I came out winning. Overpriced fender strakes! here I come!

i could really give a shit about 8 hp. this is sort of a good thing, i get 5 bills and free maintence. its a blessing in disguise. but im just kinda dissappointed that mazda fuxed up again. fugazi.

What would the free maintenance cover?? I thought under our already sweet RX-8 warranty we were covered..

Originally posted by RX-Nut
What would the free maintenance cover?? I thought under our already sweet RX-8 warranty we were covered..

Originally you would have to pay for oil changes, etc....with this **FREE** service arrangement, you pay ZERO, 0, Nada, nothing. Except obviously for normal wear parts...

Anyone, am I correct?

Review page 8-5 in your owners manual, gives you a good idea of what is covered.

wow, some people are going to buy back, honestly I was guessing 100% for the $$$ + service.

nothing against with people's decision, but just curious what r ur reasons if you choose buyback?

Originally posted by RX-Nut
What would the free maintenance cover?? I thought under our already sweet RX-8 warranty we were covered.. The basic warranty covers stuff that breaks, not routine maintenance. The maintenance schedules are in section 8 of your owners' manual.

I alrdy get free oil changes from my dealer...would rather they up the 500 to 1000.......should be other options as well like extended warrenty, etc.....

the buy back will go something like this (assuming that they take care of tax, license, etc.):

1) take back the car.
2) financing is taken care of.
3) my car (along with the other returns) sits on their lot as a used car.
4) they have a rx-8 glut.
5) if i want, i buy it back for much less than i purchased originally.

Guess i'll be getting that 6-disc changer after all :D

I'm taking the money & service. I love my car too much to sell it back. Besides, HP is just a number. I didn't buy if for the HP number. If the car was only 150HP & it performed like it does, it would be fine with me. :D

Originally posted by onix527
I alrdy get free oil changes from my dealer...would rather they up the 500 to 1000.......should be other options as well like extended warrenty, etc.....

Well, there's more than just oil changes. Tune-ups, lubrications, adjustments, tire rotations, to name a few.

I do agree however an extended warranty would have been nice.

Sell it back. And then buy another one cheaper, esp if you paid list. There more negotiating power now, and there's going to be a 'few' slightly used cars on the lot now.

Posted this in the other thread.. but maybe here's better...

Another question is how about those who got theirs at a markup? If they do decide to give up the car, how would the buy back work then?

Not that I'm saying I would.. but it does question the mind.

Sorry for the stupidity, but how exaclty does buyback work?
they pay u back the price you payed? or the current market value?

Originally posted by bong
Sorry for the stupidity, but how exaclty does buyback work?
they pay u back the price you payed? or the current market value? The details will be in the letter we receive from Mazda. I would expect that they'll pay you whatever you paid the dealer, including TT&L.

I doubt they'll cover any finance charges you've paid, though they might if you financed though Mazda American Credit. But until those letters start arriving, it's all purely speculation.

Originally posted by Napboy
the buy back will go something like this (assuming that they take care of tax, license, etc.):
1) take back the car.
2) financing is taken care of.
3) my car (along with the other returns) sits on their lot as a used car.
4) they have a rx-8 glut.
5) if i want, i buy it back for much less than i purchased originally.
1)Ditto
2) ??
3) Ditto
4) Ditto
5) Ditto
6) or get a newer one with less or Zero miles and fresh tires!

Seems like a Win/Win situation for us. I can get the same car cheaper with less miles....hmmm sounds like a no brainer. If it doesn't include tax/title/"screw-me" fees than it isn't such a good deal.

Originally posted by TJRX8

1)Ditto
2) ??
3) Ditto
4) Ditto
5) Ditto
6) or get a newer one with less or Zero miles and fresh tires!



By "financing taken care of", I mean that my car loan will be paid off.

I am unhappy that there is a issue with hp as we all thought, and which I complained about to Mazda and my dealership.

I am very happy that Mazda is trying to make up for it. There is no way I would give up my car - it is still the most powerful and the fastest car I have ever owned, still looks stunning, still handles amazingly well and still has excellent design inside and out. The only thing that has changed today is that they are giving me stuff to keep a car I am ecstatic about.

I agree with others~

The free maintenance and $500 Mazda credit is worth jack when you consider that most people here paid MSRP for their cars. I say drive the car the way a sport car should be drive, think of it as an extended test drive and then return the car. Get your full money back at MSRP. Then sit back and think about it~ if you still love your car to death, go back to the dealership and negotiate a fair 'used car price' on a RX-8 and save thousands! That's what I would do anyways. Either way you have the choice of money and car, pretty much a second chance to decide whether or not you'd still buy the car with lower power rating or lower price tag. Even if you don't care about power and just love the way it drives, this is the opportunity to get a good discount on a new car. Good luck, guy~

Most people seem to have missed the part where Budaman notes that the buy back requires that you have to sign a waiver that states that you will not purchase another RX-8. He doesn't mention how long this clause is valid but I would assume that it will be for at least 6 months. Before you go and return your car, it's important to always read the fine print.

I am not considering a buyback. I love the car too much. I don't blame those who choose the buyback, however. To each his/her own.

But even if I wanted to go the buyback route, it would just be way too complicated for me. OK, Mazda buys back my car and my intention is to buy a used RX-8 later, or a new one after all the bugs have been worked out. I have nothing to drive, so I have to buy something else to get me around. So, I buy something else, but then when I want to buy the RX-8 again, I trade in the thing I just bought for much less than what I paid for it. Then, I buy the new RX-8 and end up spending MORE money because of the depreciation on the trade-in. Or I buy a used RX-8 that somebody sold back to Mazda but thoroughly thrashed first.

I don't think so.

loco4RX, that's a good point. Still, I think you should get in touch with your dealership and ask them for a decent refund. After all, I assume you paid MSRP for the RX-8, and I really doubt people are going to be paying MSRP next week on this car due to the power issue and now the poor PR. See if your dealership will be willing to work with you, return some of your purchase price and still have the $500 credit and free maintenance. I have nothing against people who want to keep their cars, but I think you deserve alittle more than what they are offering on the table.

Hmm. I paid MSRP and traded in my car. I too would be in a pickle. I am not sure that the dealer would waiver on the price but move forward with only the Mazda innitiative.

I am numb about all of this. How will this effect resale or the marketability of the car?

I like the car but I too must consider it as a commodity. ANother troubling issue is what would I buy in its place? I eliminated the options - S2000, G35, 350Z now what? I have also tinted the windows, bought the strakes and the white clear side markers.

What are some realistic scenarios here? What other companies have had this problem? What did they do?

Originally posted by Napboy
By "financing taken care of", I mean that my car loan will be paid off.
Ok:
2) Ditto
:D

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
Hmm. I paid MSRP and traded in my car. I too would be in a pickle. I am not sure that the dealer would waiver on the price but move forward with only the Mazda innitiative.


I feel for you and others on the predictament of not having a 2nd car. You options are severely limited because of that.

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
I am numb about all of this. How will this effect resale or the marketability of the car?

I like the car but I too must consider it as a commodity. ANother troubling issue is what would I buy in its place? I eliminated the options - S2000, G35, 350Z now what? I have also tinted the windows, bought the strakes and the white clear side markers.

What are some realistic scenarios here? What other companies have had this problem? What did they do?
I consider my car as a commodity too. A depreciating asset. I don't one should think about resale, unless they want to enter into a lease. One shouldn't be buying a car, a depreciating asset, and be thinking about resale. I don't know what your case will be, but I didn't buy the car with the thought of how much will it be worth down the road. I bought it for the fun factor and not to be used as an investment.

As for marketability, I don't think it will be affected. There are plenty of consumers, non-enthusiasts, that will not miss the 9 HP. They are buying the car for the looks, functionality, and for the performance it is already getting. Not the performance it could have had.

Worst case, and if this turns into a PR disaster for Mazda, and unfortunately ends the production of the RX-8 and the demise of the rotary once again, I have a "limited edition" vehicle which may end up being more marketable than before. IF I ever want to sell it, which I may have a hard time doing. :D

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
I have nothing against people who want to keep their cars, but I think you deserve alittle more than what they are offering on the table.

Sky,

I agree, and I'm one of the ones that will keep the car. It would have been nice if the settlement was higher, maybe additional cash and an extended warranty too.

I'm keeping mine!

The car stll looks great, drives great and is fast enough to get me all the tickets I care to collect. Mazda's offer is just icing on the cake.

I'm a little disappointed that Mazda didn't learn from the 2001 Miata problem, but a least they're acting much quicker this time.

Dave

I personally feel we are just a bit in "shock" that this happened to Mazda again. (This time w/ our beloved 8).
To me HP is only one number I consider in the purchase. My 993 has 288 powerful horses that I can use sparingly in the South Florida roads except at "events". Florida has now even upgraded the law to confiscate, and arrest any driver that might be street racing due to some sad fatalities in recent months. (fast/furious wana-bees). My 993 is supposed to top out at 160mph. I certainly am not going to test that on I-95, To me the same will go for the 8. If your sole reason to purchase is track events, and comparing hp to hp vs other models then have them buy it back. If you enjoy new technology, great looks,and many other goodies thrown in, you should then consider keeping the car. As you can see, I am NOT a speed demon, even though I love to drive a great handling car -- and to me that is more important. If you want raw speed, get a supped up Mustang or other hight HP car. To me, owning an automobil is more than that. Just my .02 worth. thanks.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
Sky,
I agree, and I'm one of the ones that will keep the car. It would have been nice if the settlement was higher, maybe additional cash and an extended warranty too.

Greedy Bastages!! :D (sound familiar?))

Funny how already the "deal" isn't good enough. Herc and Boob have already said this in another thread (closed now I believe) wthin minutes of slamming me and others for "contemplating" the Buy-Back option. I wouldn't think of telling anyone that they are "stupid" or "idiots" for keeping the car. They showed thier true colors...again.

Originally posted by loco4rx8
I am not considering a buyback. I love the car too much. I don't blame those who choose the buyback, however. To each his/her own.
But even if I wanted to go the buyback route, it would just be way too complicated for me. ...
I still have my old car because Mazda wouldn't even give me a fair trade to begin with. Lucky for me at this point I guess. At least I have that option if I didn't the decision would be a lot more difficult. I am still on the fence though.

I will go with the $500 and free service . I have not even test driven the car yet!!! I am betting it's enough for me since I only have 130hp Mazda car now and I love it. I feel bad for the people who wanted it for it's speed...but if you drove it before buying it and still bought it...who cares! It's a fun, awesome, unique car! I can't wait to get mine. We'll see how it affects Mazda overall.

Originally posted by TJRX8
I still have my old car because Mazda wouldn't even give me a fair trade to begin with.BTW, just to be anal, it's your dealer that wouldn't give you what you wanted for your trade.

I can't speak to what they offered you, but it would be interesting to know how it compared to actual wholesale value of your car (Kelly Black Book or Manheim auction value.) A good rule of thumb is to visit kbb.com, get their trade-in value and subtract a 10% "fantasyland" penalty.

More importantly, Mazda had nothing to do with it; trade-ins, pricing of the RX-8, etc. are all set by your dealer, Mazda has nothing to do with it. (Thus why the price on the sticker is called MSRP - Manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price.)

Wouldn't it be sad if the only reason we chose a car was because of its hp number? If that were true we'd all be rumbling along in our agricultural Mustangs, spinning off the road in our S2000s or looking kind of foolish in our WRX STis. How boring. This forum seems to be populated with more intelligent and informed car buyers.

Is it just about hp ? If it were then you'd only care about those 1/4 mile times and if you were serious about those would you turn up with a green engine and no performance mods? If you wanted to get off the line fastest you'd be driving an all wheel drive car, right?

I bet if you hadn't seen the dyno numbers or gone racing you'd be quite happy with your cars. Yes, it's unfortunate that Mazda mis-stated the hp numbers but in my opinion they're acting ethically and providing fair compensation for their error. I'm thrilled with the deal myself.

But what am I saying? I'm not writing in my best interests! Let me start over:

My dog, folks! This sucks! You've all been taken for a ride! You lost at least 9 hp, that's HUGE! You're going to be overtaken by Neons and Hyundais! Return your cars, cancel your orders (especially those Nordic Green, MT, GT Package cars that you're about to take delivery of). Don't delay! Go get that all wheel drive, raging hp economy sedan instead! That way there'll be more RX-8s for us enthusiasts! ;-) And when the RX-8 performance mods inevitably become available we'll all look back on this and wonder what the fuss was all about.

Not that I have an opinion about this ;-)

The car is fun and a lot faster than my '88 'vert (which I kept). The '88 feels so slow after driving the 8. If I were to sell it back it would be to avoid the first year possible problems that have been creeping up like the weak air, funny noises from the front, oil pan thing and who knows what else may show up.

Originally posted by rex
Wouldn't it be sad if the only reason we chose a car was because of its hp number? If that were true we'd all be rumbling along in our agricultural Mustangs, spinning off the road in our S2000s or looking kind of foolish in our WRX STis. How boring. This forum seems to be populated with more intelligent and informed car buyers.

You said it! On other threads about gasoline grade and mileage I got roundly lambasted by severe rotorheads when I said I would put 87 in the tank. I even posted an email from Mazda that said 87 octane would not decrease mpg nor hurt the engine, it would only decrease performance slightly. Much of the criticism leveled at me was to the effect, if I wanted a lower-hp car then why did I buy an RX-8? The laugh's on me: Everyone was driving a lower hp car and didn't even know it! I saw ZERO gripes on this board about the car being underpowered before the dyno results started coming in. There was some moaning about 0-60 times which is as much a torque question as anything, but we already knew torque was nothing to write home about in the RX-8.

The bottom line: Until we saw something in writing, no one knew or suspected a problem, so it's all in our minds. It's still the same great car we fell in love with, and getting something back from Mazda is just icing on the cake.

You said it! On other threads about gasoline grade and mileage I got roundly lambasted by severe rotorheads when I said I would put 87 in the tank.

The gas pipe to Phoenix broke, we have gas shortage, all I could get for the RX8 was 87 octane regular. I was petrified. Made no difference in normal driving. Drives just fine and is just as much fun.

Originally posted by BillK
BTW, just to be anal, it's your dealer that wouldn't give you what you wanted for your trade.

I can't speak to what they offered you, but it would be interesting to know how it compared to actual wholesale value of your car (Kelly Black Book or Manheim auction value.) A good rule of thumb is to visit kbb.com, get their trade-in value and subtract a 10% "fantasyland" penalty.

More importantly, Mazda had nothing to do with it; trade-ins, pricing of the RX-8, etc. are all set by your dealer, Mazda has nothing to do with it. (Thus why the price on the sticker is called MSRP - Manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price.)
What's your point? I was just stating a fact that I still had my old car. I'm glad you would be interested to know how it compared to actual wholesale value and thanks for the KBB tip. I have been using KBB, Edmunds, NADA etc. since before most of the people on this site knew the Internet existed. And I have utilized the NADA book before most of them were born.

My whole point was to state that I feel I will now be in a better position to bargain. Stopped by a dealer today for details of the buy-back and he mentioned it before I did. Said he'd see me when I was getting my offers together in a few months for a new no mileage RX-8 with new tires, brakes, filters, etc.

BTW I realize it was my dealer that made my deal, but it does say Mazda on the big blue sign outside. So let's argue symantics some other time.

The car drives great and I dont care if they revise it down to 50hp. Can you imagine, it might only have 50hp but does 0-60 in 6.4 (0.5 sec added, who really revs to 8500rpm and drops the clutch?) The proof is in the pudding not in the recipie. It flat out flies even shifting at 5000rpm. Mazda has done us right to offer compensation so quickly (although I have not received my letter yet). Just be glad we are not dealing with Ford or heaven help us GM.






Velocity Red, r/b, 6spd, GT, 6disc. Fender strakes with my debit card.

Mark..... after the Mustang SVT power issue, Ford immediately suspended production of the vehicle for one year. They then upgraded the vehicle to exceed its original advertised number and have been doing so since. They also offered free chrome and other misc freebies to please the owners instead of a hasty cheap buy out Mazda is attempting. Not to mention the SVT fiasco was a honest mistake engineering wise. Honestly, it sure seems like Ford is offering better consumer service than Mazda is.

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Mark..... after the Mustang SVT power issue, Ford immediately suspended production of the vehicle for one year. They then upgraded the vehicle to exceed its original advertised number and have been doing so since. They also offered free chrome and other misc freebies to please the owners instead of a hasty cheap buy out Mazda is attempting. Not to mention the SVT fiasco was a honest mistake engineering wise. Honestly, it sure seems like Ford is offering better consumer service than Mazda is.

Let me get this right... you're saying you'd rather give back the car and wait another year until you get the 9 horsepower back?

My memory ain't what it used to be, but what I recall on this forum just a few short weeks ago is that people couldn't wait another minute for their '8s. Now we've got 'em, they match the performance specs we were told (0-60 time, etc.), and you'd still like to wait a year so some spec on paper matches what you thought? My advice: You don't "get" what the 8 is all about. Stick with your SVT and you'll probably be a lot happier.

I was under the impression that the GT had power advertisement issues as well? Also, what do you mean by honest engineering mistake... were the circumstances different than here?

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Mark..... after the Mustang SVT power issue, Ford immediately suspended production of the vehicle for one year. They then upgraded the vehicle to exceed its original advertised number and have been doing so since. They also offered free chrome and other misc freebies to please the owners instead of a hasty cheap buy out Mazda is attempting. Not to mention the SVT fiasco was a honest mistake engineering wise. Honestly, it sure seems like Ford is offering better consumer service than Mazda is.

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9477

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Mark..... after the Mustang SVT power issue, Ford immediately suspended production of the vehicle for one year. They then upgraded the vehicle to exceed its original advertised number and have been doing so since. They also offered free chrome and other misc freebies to please the owners instead of a hasty cheap buy out Mazda is attempting. Not to mention the SVT fiasco was a honest mistake engineering wise. Honestly, it sure seems like Ford is offering better consumer service than Mazda is.

I don't know if I would be so quick to use "Ford" and "honest" in the same sentence...

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9522

Feel free to read more about Ford's Cobra fiasco from the link above...

The way I see it, if you convert the $500 + free maintenance into an all-cash settlement, it wouldn't be nearly enough to buy the mods that would be necessary to recover the lost ~30rwhp. I would MUCH rather Mazda simply keep their money and find my missing hp. This was supposed to be my practical, 4-door S2000; that's the appeal, damn it.

If everyone still likes the way the RX-8 drives and handles then stay with it. If everyone still likes likes the attention that it gets then stay with it. Its a beautiful car regardless!!!! 9 HP less has not made this car any different because the times are still the same. The same engine was used in the Car and driver reports that is in our RX-8. It still beats the G35 and out performs the Cobra overall! So why sell it back? I believe $500 cash and free maintinance is STRONG! Due to a HP messup we are reaping the bennifits from this!

We never really lost any horse power because we never really had it!!!!:)


Ryan

Originally posted by 8_wannabe

: You don't "get" what the 8 is all about. Stick with your SVT and you'll probably be a lot happier.

Skyline Maniac never "get" what the 8 is all about because the only reason he's here is to stir the pot. Don't be fooled he doesn't care about the SVT either, just something to badmouth the RX-8 and Mazda in general.

Originally posted by DYT
Skyline Maniac never "get" what the 8 is all about because the only reason he's here is to stir the pot. Don't be fooled he doesn't care about the SVT either, just something to badmouth the RX-8 and Mazda in general.

Thanks, DYT. I didn't realize his past history but it sure jumped out at me when I read his post. There are a few folks here who offer little constructive, but just like to diss the car or those who enjoy it. What a shame. Once I figure out who they all are I can just choose to ignore them.

Mazda corp. will be organizing all buy backs thru the assistance of Dealers. The Dealers have no say so of value they will just process the process for Mazda and then will have the option of buying the car from Mazda. All customers who have not taken delivery but have deposits will recieve the same deal.

Gave mine back!

Hmmm, difficult decision to make. This is the best handling and looking car on the market. I traded my 2001 BMW 330 ci for it and love the RX8. However, I need to carefully make my decision. I have listed my likes and dislikes below.

Likes: Awesome looking, awesome driving, love the four door flexibility, great attention getter, smooth power delivery

Dislikes: (1) Aweful gas mileage averaging around 16mpg and driving 75% freeway without exceeding 4000 rpm (my auto 4speed has 1,300 miles on it). (2) I have never had a car where the interior gets so hot that my feet and legs feel like they are burning. Also the center console gets extremely hot and the trunk gets extremely hot as well when the temp. outside is over 70 degrees. While this is a sports car, it is still not acceptable to get this much heat into the cabin and trunk. (3) Now my car makes 197 hp, down from 210 initially then 207. While by no means I am an expert, my car actually feels slower more like a 175 hp car although this is just a guess. I also get a "small" hesitation right around 6,200 rpm then all is well up to 7,000 (did this a couple times yesterday at 1,300 miles. Also, the engine just starting to amke a popping sound at times so I have to take it in and see what that is all about.

Anyway, I still love the car but probably will opt for the buyback due to Mazda's misrepresentation and the dislikes I mentioned above. Wow, tough decision to chage and I reserve the right to change my mind :-)

You take the buy-back because you were lied to. And are being used. And because you now own a car that's worth less than you paid for it. The value of the car has slipped considerably more than $500. I, frankly, am surprised at how many posters are saying the debit card is a good deal. It's not. Look at the market in new sports cars. The RX-8 has just slipped out of its niche and fallen into no-man's land. The car risks becoming the chick-car of the year. Watch. You'll see a lot selling with auto transmissions and few options. As a value leader it could go against some of the quieter but "a little sporty" imports. But not against S2000, EVO, Z, BMW3.
Knowing these things it is very hard to swallow the $500. In my opinion, to have me driving around selling the car (that's what we early adoptors do for them) Mazda should pay more like $2500. That would be about half their profit. They'd still make money. And I'd feel a little less used.
I'm curious, I'll bet right now they've shifted production to 80% auto. Is there anyone in Hiroshima that can confirm that?
Come on, this is the web. I know you're reading this.
RM

I dont know about you all but I was not lied to. I didnt care what the HP rating was other than as a number to tell people. My decision to buy the car was reserved until I actually sat in one and drove it around for an hour. On that basis, the car is just what I wanted and am happy that thanks to all the whiny never be happy number watchers, I am getting free service for the next 4 years and a nice little 500 bucks to spend on junk for the car.

I also dont see any of the problems others are showing, so maybe the mechanical stuff was a 1st allocation issue? I am getting up to 25.6MPG if I am a bit restrained (but not granny driving) and down to 17-18MPG if I do hammer it. I dont have any excessive heat in the passenger area that I can tell, car doesnt hesitate at high RPMs like some are seeing, etc.

So I am happy, I'm keeping my car and thanks complainers for getting me some free stuff. Others might say the free service is a gyp since it doesnt cost them that much, but it would have cost ME a whole lot more.

Originally posted by rotarymotory
You take the buy-back because you were lied to. And are being used. And because you now own a car that's worth less than you paid for it. The value of the car has slipped considerably more than $500. I, frankly, am surprised at how many posters are saying the debit card is a good deal. It's not. Look at the market in new sports cars. The RX-8 has just slipped out of its niche and fallen into no-man's land. The car risks becoming the chick-car of the year. Watch. You'll see a lot selling with auto transmissions and few options. As a value leader it could go against some of the quieter but "a little sporty" imports. But not against S2000, EVO, Z, BMW3.
Knowing these things it is very hard to swallow the $500. In my opinion, to have me driving around selling the car (that's what we early adoptors do for them) Mazda should pay more like $2500. That would be about half their profit. They'd still make money. And I'd feel a little less used.
I'm curious, I'll bet right now they've shifted production to 80% auto. Is there anyone in Hiroshima that can confirm that?
Come on, this is the web. I know you're reading this.
RM
9 hp suddenly makes the car practically worthless? What is the magic number that makes a car go from chick car to 3-series comparable? It's obviously somewhere between 238 and 247.

That's insane logic.

Zaphod & Genom, thank you for interjecting a bit of rationality into this otherwise shrill and manic discussion. How is the '8 not the car we've all coveted since the early concepts? The car we raved about in reviews, roadtests, first drives, etc. until suddenly a dyno said, "oops, you lost a few hp." It's still the same car, dudes!

Originally posted by 8_wannabe


I saw ZERO gripes on this board about the car being underpowered before the dyno results started coming in.

The bottom line: Until we saw something in writing, no one knew or suspected a problem, so it's all in our minds. It's still the same great car we fell in love with, and getting something back from Mazda is just icing on the cake.

Actually, it was apparent to me the first time I took the wheel that the car was underpowered......long before I read dyno threads. I know what 250 hp SHOULD feel like and this car did not then and does not now produce anything close to even the officially lowered horsepower rating.

So throw in this much lower power rating, toss in unacceptable engine heat problems, add a dose of gawd-awful miles per gallon, a pathetic sound system and a paint job that chips entirely too easily and you end up with alot of guys who will take the buy-back, wait a few months and re-purchase the same car, bugs and all, for thousands of dollars less than we originally paid. This is the easiest economic decision you will ever make! Cars are already stacking up at the dealerships well before word of this got out. The economy continues to suck, consumer confidence continues to suck and Mazda has a big PR problem. No doubt in my mind I'll be able to buy the same car I own now for $3,000-$4,000 less than I paid a month ago.

The argument has been made that cars are a depreciable asset and re-sale should not be taken into consideration. Of course it should be! I learned this from my '93 RX7 that I took a $12,000 hickey on after just 15 months. Contrast this to the PROFIT I made buying an S2000 in its first year and selling a year later. Contrast it also to the BMW 330 that cost me $1,800 plus monthly payments to own for 2 years. There's always something cooler to own just a year or two away so buy smart in order to get out later. Geez! Have you seen what the RX7 will look like in the Fall of '05? It's gorgeous! Many of you will want to sell what you own today to get into it. SOmething you can't do if you bought an 8 for full MSRP.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8



So throw in this much lower power rating, toss in unacceptable engine heat problems, add a dose of gawd-awful miles per gallon, a pathetic sound system and a paint job that chips entirely too easily and you end up with alot of guys who will take the buy-back, wait a few months and re-purchase the same car, bugs and all, for thousands of dollars less than we originally paid. This is the easiest economic decision you will ever make! Cars are already stacking up at the dealerships well before word of this got out. The economy continues to suck, consumer confidence continues to suck and Mazda has a big PR problem. No doubt in my mind I'll be able to buy the same car I own now for $3,000-$4,000 less than I paid a month ago.



So according to your complaints of lower power rating, unacceptle engine heat problems, "gawd-awful MPG's, pathetic sound system, and a chip-easy paint job, you are willing to buy it again at 3k less, even though it sounds like this car is a POS to you.

Sad, so sad.

I'm glad I don't have all those problems, or else I might consider being as hypocritical as you.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


So according to your complaints of lower power rating, unacceptle engine heat problems, "gawd-awful MPG's, pathetic sound system, and a chip-easy paint job, you are willing to buy it again at 3k less.

Sad, so sad.

I'm glad I don't have all those problems, or else I might consider being as hypocritical as you.

You absolutely positively have all the same problems with your car as I have with mine. Your head is still in the clouds as this is obviously the nicest thing you've ever owned.......THAT'S the sad thing.

And for $4,000 I can cure all of the deficiencies of the current production model and still have a little left over. Either that or it will allow me to get out of this deal in a year or two and buy the next cool thing. You'll still be heavily under water while I ride past you in my new 5 series........or maybe '05 RX8........or maybe '06 RX7.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
For $4,000 I can cure all of the deficiencies of the current production model and still have a little left over. Either that or it will allow me to get out of this deal in a year or two and buy the next cool thing. You'll still be heavily under water while I ride past you in my new 5 series........or maybe '05 RX8........or maybe '06 RX7.

Tomster, can you elaborate on this a bit. I really am a novice in terms of doing any kind of custom work on cars. How can I fix engine heating, chippable paint, poor sound system, and bad mileage for $4000? I'd like to look at all my alternatives. Also, since I bought the Bose system I'm just going to live with it as-is. It ain't great, but it's "good enough" and I'm certainly not going to throw it away so I should be able to deal with all this stuff for less than $4000. What would you recommend?

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


You absolutely positively have all the same problems with your car as I have with mine. Your head is still in the clouds as this is obviously the nicest thing you've ever owned.......THAT'S the sad thing.

And for $4,000 I can cure all of the deficiencies of the current production model and still have a little left over. Either that or it will allow me to get out of this deal in a year or two and buy the next cool thing. You'll still be heavily under water while I ride past you in my new 5 series........or maybe '05 RX8........or maybe '06 RX7.

My head is not in the clouds. I do not have the same problems as your car, except for a stated lower HP rating. Don't assume that I have the same problems. My car has no problems with the heat, MPG's, stereo or the paint. I'm sorry you car does. Not don't make assumptions you know nothing about.

It makes no difference what I have owned in the past. I believe this is a great car. So what's that to you, and why are you so defensive in my approval of this car, that you have to make degrading comments?

If you think you can buy this car (new) for $4 k less, more power to you. IMO, I don't think you'll see that big of discount.

And what's you point of your statement of me being heavily under water? I completely own this car, and my intentions are to keep it for a long time. And I could care less about you riding around in your smugass Bimmer 5-series. If you pass by me, it will be going in the opposite direction, because you definately won't be pass me if we are heading the same way. And your assumptions have no merit since we don't know the future of an '05 RX-8 or if they'll even produce a RX7. Now grow up and stop with your degrading and childish comments.

I haven't received my car yet,(Tuesday or Wednesday possibly) but I wouldn't mind 0% finanacing for 60 months like they're doing with all the '03's on the lot.

BTW, another conspiracy theory for those who test drove....The test cars had a 'good' ECU then of course, we get the downgraded version......

Also, the HP question could have been solved months ago...let me explain...I took my son's X-Men remote control car, calculated the relative speed and multiplied by MC(sq.) divided by Mazda's WTF/tell them what they want to hear quotient and came up with 238!!! Why didn't anyone think of that before?

Coming soon! An all new* movie starring the almighty *asterisk*.
Dozens of Hollywoods sexiest actresses, together nude** in the one of the finest*** movies ever released.

*Movie is actually a heavily edited version of a previously released film
** Actresses were nude before and after filming in their dressing rooms
***Movie received $6.00 at box office and standing ovation when the one movie-goer left the theater 4 minutes in.

Isn't amazing how the asterisk has so much power?!!! My initial RX-8 literature went from 250* "provisional target" to 250* with manual trans to 247* and now 238. How many F***N asterisks are supposed to be next to this number? I've got an idea......I'm going to tell my girlfriend that my penis is really 12" and then get an asterisk tattood on it with small print stating "when put under a LARGE magnigying glass.

It's ashame that this world has become a place where it's O.K. to lie. That there's always some lawyer to cover your ass. We have presidents saying they didn't swallow or what ever the hell he said- so many things, I'm confused - that saddam(n) had Weapons of mass destruction* (* weapons were on his mental wish list as discovered by CIA psychics *). Nobody wants to admit fault and the buck always gets passed on to some other poor smuck(us), for him to sort it out.

I have this dream......wouldn't it be great if one Monday morning, an unmarked box was left on our doorstep with a letter saying " Thanks for your patience....enclosed you will find a new version of your ECU that will increase your HP to 287. Again, sorry for the delay and hope you also enjoy the $500/ service agreement we provided..Secretly your friend.......

Just poking some fun...Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I will enjoy my car and have faith that this "problem" will be resovled shortly......peace

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
add a dose of gawd-awful miles per gallon, .
...premium gas going for almost $2/gal...:(

Originally posted by TJRX8

...premium gas going for almost $2/gal...:(

Life must be good in Florida. Regular (87 octane) is going for $2.19 here; I can't bear to look at the premium side of the sign.

....so I am curious to know if one opts for the buyback, how the refund/repurchase will be calculated if there was a trade involved including possible an upside down trade where the negative equity of the trade was rolled onto the purchase price????

Originally posted by nowr2go
....so I am curious to know if one opts for the buyback, how the refund/repurchase will be calculated if there was a trade involved including possible an upside down trade where the negative equity of the trade was rolled onto the purchase price????

That's a good one. Did you really do that or is this just idle speculation? The only way to find out is to call the 800 number posted elsewhere. No one else can give you a good answer.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


Actually, it was apparent to me the first time I took the wheel that the car was underpowered......long before I read dyno threads. I know what 250 hp SHOULD feel like and this car did not then and does not now produce anything close to even the officially lowered horsepower rating.

So throw in this much lower power rating, toss in unacceptable engine heat problems, add a dose of gawd-awful miles per gallon, a pathetic sound system and a paint job that chips entirely too easily and you end up with alot of guys who will take the buy-back, wait a few months and re-purchase the same car, bugs and all, for thousands of dollars less than we originally paid. This is the easiest economic decision you will ever make! Cars are already stacking up at the dealerships well before word of this got out. The economy continues to suck, consumer confidence continues to suck and Mazda has a big PR problem. No doubt in my mind I'll be able to buy the same car I own now for $3,000-$4,000 less than I paid a month ago.

The argument has been made that cars are a depreciable asset and re-sale should not be taken into consideration. Of course it should be! I learned this from my '93 RX7 that I took a $12,000 hickey on after just 15 months. Contrast this to the PROFIT I made buying an S2000 in its first year and selling a year later. Contrast it also to the BMW 330 that cost me $1,800 plus monthly payments to own for 2 years. There's always something cooler to own just a year or two away so buy smart in order to get out later. Geez! Have you seen what the RX7 will look like in the Fall of '05? It's gorgeous! Many of you will want to sell what you own today to get into it. SOmething you can't do if you bought an 8 for full MSRP.

Yeah -- we should all listen to this guy -- he is so smart that he can't find to way to actually pay for a car. I have no heat problems, sound problems, gas mileage problems (getting 19 to 21 MPG and driving it hard), paint problems, or believe it or not POWER problems -- but most importantly no problems actually paying for my car before leaving the lot :D And NO my head is not in the clouds -- this is the least expensive car I have owned or driven in a long time -- but the most fun to drive -- and that is why most of us bought this car to begin with. Well worth the money IMHO!

Well the reasons I am thinking of buy back at this point are as follows:

Significantly lower HP then advertised (yeah I know they are saying only 9 hp but I don't buy it based on dynos, it is more like 20+ hp off but revising 9 down keeps them within the 5% window)

TERRIBLE gas milage - under my normal driving style I get 13 to 14 mpg. If I baby the crap out of it and granny shift it I can get 18 mpg. For a 415 hp z06 I can deal with this for a 220 hp 2900 lbs car that is jut not right.

VERY weak air conditioning - on 90+ degree days I have to run constantly at 3 to 4 to keep the car comfortable.

Lack of faith in Mazda with this car at this point. Since the cars are brand new and we already have issues with lack of HP and engine/trans issues of some other people (I am sure a small number) but I simply cannot trust Mazda much at this point.

I am still torn because I love the looks/function of the car and I really wish it had either a turbo'd 4 or regular 6 in it instead of the rotary. Yeah I know most people here are really into the rotary engine but I would prefer the utility, reliability and torque of a regular piston engine.

I have not yet made a decision I will only be able to decide after talking to them about the buyback. If I do opt for the buyback I will likely go back to an Audi S4.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Life must be good in Florida. Regular (87 octane) is going for $2.19 here; I can't bear to look at the premium side of the sign.
Sorry dude...I hear it isn't getting better anytime soon.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


My head is not in the clouds. I do not have the same problems as your car, except for a stated lower HP rating. Don't assume that I have the same problems. My car has no problems with the heat, MPG's, stereo or the paint. I'm sorry you car does. Not don't make assumptions you know nothing about.

Wow! Somehow you got a car that does not produce excessive engine heat. Are you sure you got a rotary version? The engine plain and simple produces much more heat than a piston engine. No problem other than the fact that the thermal insulation protecting the cabin from this heat is insufficient. YOURS is also insufficient. Yours has the exact same insulation as mine. You also have the Bose stereo system which, if you didn't have a tin ear, you would know produces very uninspiring, muddled music. Absolutley no imaging and zero dynamics.
Lastly, unless you drive 55 mph in 6th gear 90% of the time, you get crappy gas mileage. Unacceptable in the 21st century. Your engine gets no better gas mileage than mine. It's not an assumption it's a fact. To say elsewise is to say that Mazda has the crappiest quality control on the planet and I know that's not the case.

So its YOU who are defensive. Heaven forbid someone knock your precious shiny new ride.

This is a very nice car with 1st year glitches and a substantial loss of power from the crank to the rear wheel. All I am saying is this.......If you are given the choice of owning this car for full MSRP now or owning a brand new version of this car in January PLUS a 50 inch Liquid Crystal on Silicon rear projection High Definition television for the same amount of money, which choice do you take?

I take the new ride and high def tv.....that way I can watch in brilliantly clear definition your Steelers get their asses kicked in the first round of the playoffs once again.

Oh, and you're dreaming if you think 180 horses at the rear wheel is gonna take a 5 series. Power and performance is no better than literally half the cars in production.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
All I am saying is this.......If you are given the choice of owning this car for full MSRP now or owning a brand new version of this car in January PLUS a 50 inch Liquid Crystal on Silicon rear projection High Definition television for the same amount of money, which choice do you take?

Uhh, liquid crystal and rear projection are two different and incompatible technologies. Other that that, I pretty much agreed with your rant. ;)

Tomster, I understand you're upset, but your last post was just a little over the top.

First of all, I have never noticed a problem with heat in the cabin in my car. Maybe I'm just not sensitive to it, but I have not noticed it. Some folks here have said that the center console on the passenger side actually gets hot. Mine absolutely does not.

Second, my gas mileage has been within the EPA estimates. I am not babying the car, nor am I driving it excessively hard, and I've gotten from 19-23 mpg. Right in the EPA range.

Third, I have not noticed the problem of a drop off in power after 6250 rpm. Maybe I just don't know what I'm looking for, but things feel right to me.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is some of the disagreements we're all having regarding the cars may be that we perceive things differently. And some of them may be that some of the cars ARE actually different. I don't think you can just rule that possibility out.

Originally posted by Spin9k
Welcome to the real world! DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO, THEN GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Get off the soapbox, "I've been injured, so Boy am I gonna get revenge" kick, and act on your threats and then write us how good it all came out with whatever you did. I LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS... SO PLEASE GO AND FIND YOURS.. BUT STOP BICKERING HERE. jUST TELL US ONCE, THEN DO IT. PS I suggest going to the MSN car review area and post away along with the others there in the mean time IF YOU JUST HAVE THE NEED TO POSTULATE ABOUT THIS.

DON'T LIKE like the current situation BUT ARE OK with the offered solution? Great, let's put this board back on track with more important items for those LIKING THEIR CARS DESPITE THE MNAO SCREWUP! Great, let's stop feeding this feeding frenzy... as of now. And thanks too, if you do.

OK I'm ready, let the flames begin......

No flames here, but we ought make a rule: Anyone selling back their car, let us know when you're on their way to the dealer, then permanently sign out. Just like you waive your rights to further sue Mazda if you take their debit car/maintenance deal, you sign away your rights to participate here if you return the car. Sure would keep things a lot cleaner here.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


Wow! Somehow you got a car that does not produce excessive engine heat. Are you sure you got a rotary version? The engine plain and simple produces much more heat than a piston engine. No problem other than the fact that the thermal insulation protecting the cabin from this heat is insufficient. YOURS is also insufficient. Yours has the exact same insulation as mine. You also have the Bose stereo system which, if you didn't have a tin ear, you would know produces very uninspiring, muddled music. Absolutley no imaging and zero dynamics.
Lastly, unless you drive 55 mph in 6th gear 90% of the time, you get crappy gas mileage. Unacceptable in the 21st century. Your engine gets no better gas mileage than mine. It's not an assumption it's a fact. To say elsewise is to say that Mazda has the crappiest quality control on the planet and I know that's not the case.

So its YOU who are defensive. Heaven forbid someone knock your precious shiny new ride.

This is a very nice car with 1st year glitches and a substantial loss of power from the crank to the rear wheel. All I am saying is this.......If you are given the choice of owning this car for full MSRP now or owning a brand new version of this car in January PLUS a 50 inch Liquid Crystal on Silicon rear projection High Definition television for the same amount of money, which choice do you take?

I take the new ride and high def tv.....that way I can watch in brilliantly clear definition your Steelers get their asses kicked in the first round of the playoffs once again.

Oh, and you're dreaming if you think 180 horses at the rear wheel is gonna take a 5 series. Power and performance is no better than literally half the cars in production.

TomsterRX8,

Such insulting comments. Even bringing in a sports team, which I am a fan, which has no bearing on this thread except to provoke a response.

I tried to be civil, and respond that I experienced none of the problems you are mentioning with my vehicle, at least so far. You obviously can't accept that. And respond with nothing but flaming comments degrading the car.

I refuse to even respond to your immature comments, that are nothing but provocation.

Moderator, we do not need these kind of inciting posts or members with condescending attitudes.

Nuf' said.

Originally posted by RXhusker


Yeah -- we should all listen to this guy -- he is so smart that he can't find to way to actually pay for a car. I have no heat problems, sound problems, gas mileage problems (getting 19 to 21 MPG and driving it hard), paint problems, or believe it or not POWER problems -- but most importantly no problems actually paying for my car before leaving the lot :D And NO my head is not in the clouds -- this is the least expensive car I have owned or driven in a long time -- but the most fun to drive -- and that is why most of us bought this car to begin with. Well worth the money IMHO!

RXhusker,

See my Does specific VIN#'s = problematic cars? (http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9600) thread.

originally posted above, but deleted, then someone quoted me, so here it goes again...

------------------------------
Mazda may have commited (no make that HAS committed) one of the dumbest car launches in recent history what with this immediate screwup about HP numbers... BUT

I just got back after a nice FAST FUN drive and then....

AFTER reading more of the sad state of many of the buyers/potential buyers on this board and this thread who are complaining, no... crybabying and making snide remarks first about this, then about that, I'm thinking this is worse than a soap opera... worse than reality TV. I mean really, get a LIFE! It's a CAR!! No car is perfect, NONE, not ONE!!

Don't like the current SITUATION? Hate Mazda? Think an RX-8 is a sissy? Is it too hot? Is the seat to small? Is the radio to awful? can't beat your friends Hyundi? Now's your chance!!! Take you car back/get your deposit back, then stop cluttering up the board with alligator tears and bile.

Welcome to the real world! DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO, THEN GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Get off the soapbox, "I've been injured, so Boy am I gonna get revenge" kick, and act on your threats and then write us how good it all came out with whatever you did. I LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS... SO PLEASE GO AND FIND YOURS.. BUT STOP BICKERING HERE. jUST TELL US ONCE, THEN DO IT. PS I suggest going to the MSN car review area and post away along with the others there in the mean time IF YOU JUST HAVE THE NEED TO POSTULATE ABOUT THIS.

FRANKY I think nearly EVERYONE has had a good vent or two on some thread or other... and NOW I'm getting sick to death of this back and forth, kinderkarten verbal gnashing of teeth. You're an ass, no you are, no I'm right, no I know what I'm doing, but you don't.. ad infinitum.

DON'T LIKE like the current situation BUT ARE OK with the offered solution? Great, let's put this board back on track with more important items for those LIKING THEIR CARS DESPITE THE MNAO SCREWUP! Great, let's stop feeding this feeding frenzy... as of now. And thanks too, if you do.

(above counts as at least one of my vents, your responses will, of course, count as one of yours too. :D OK I'm ready, let the flames begin......

Originally posted by Spin9k

Don't like the current SITUATION? Hate Mazda? Think an RX-8 is a sissy? Is it too hot? Is the seat to small? Is the radio to awful? can't beat your friends Hyundi? Now's your chance!!! Take you car back/get your deposit back, then stop cluttering up the board with alligator tears and bile.


Hey, you left a couple out. One guy said the leather seats made his butt sweat, and in another post he complained he couldn't find enough restaurants on the DVD navi. LOL! I bet the two problems are related, and it ain't the car!!

Originally posted by 8_wannabe


Uhh, liquid crystal and rear projection are two different and incompatible technologies.


I have advanced to lurker status and did not plan on posting any more, but as a columnist and A/V nut I could not let this go unanswered.

LCD and rear projection are not incompatible. LCD rear projection TVs exist, such as the Sony Grand Wega series. (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=T87k8OBzO47k_N85qQnu-69_gLtgtciaPn4=?CatalogCategoryID=ZIoKC0%2eNTG4AAA D3DdV8fCjm&ProductID=PDYKC0%2eNG6MAAAD3Qt18fCjs&Dept=tv)

Be sure to check your facts before posting something for the world to see. Perhaps you have a job waiting for you in Mazda's marketing department. ;)

How about the third option:

Pressure Mazda to fix the damend thing!

Like the Mustang buyers did.

For God's sake, what is worng with making them give us what we paid for??

I would love to meet the members of this forum in a poker game. You guys would fold in the blink of an eye..

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
LCD and rear projection are not incompatible. LCD rear projection TVs exist, such as the Sony Grand Wega series.[/URL]


My bad. I'll stick to opinions about cars in the future and in the meantime, get my resume out to Mazda tonight. ;)

edit: btw, that's a s.h. TV. My problem is I don't shop for $4000 tv's often enough; looks like technology has overtaken me.

Take in mind its Mazda who is buying the cars back...not the dealers. So, for those who are thinking you can buy a used RX8 from the dealer soon...nope...sorry...the cars are going to Mazda to do with them as they wish (demos,corp veh's,etc.). Also, take in mind if you keep this car with the free maintenance offer, and you sell this car in the future, you will be able to easily provide an outstanding service record for your vehicle. I'm thinking the only people returning their vehicles now are going to be those who "accidently" purchased this car and didnt think about their financial sitiuation...in other words..they're horrible with money! This is such a sweet deal...if I were to return the car now and go buy another, who the heck is going to give me free maintenance?!?!?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe


My bad. I'll stick to opinions about cars in the future and in the meantime, get my resume out to Mazda tonight. ;)

edit: btw, that's a s.h. TV. My problem is I don't shop for $4000 tv's often enough; looks like technology has overtaken me.

You will acually do better with a good CRT Rear Projection set for 1/2 the money. LCD is still kind of a giimmick in the RP world. All it really offers is slimmer cabinet- otherwise, CRT is still superior.

Do you work for a car dealership or corporate for an auto manufacturer? Have you ever heard of program cars? While I can't say for certain that Mazda isn't going to hoard all the buybacks for themselves, I don't think it would be in Mazdas' best interest to keep all the buybacks for themselves. Businesses usually like to sell their products and eliminate their losses as best they can.

Do not forget the offering in the free maintenance only covers the 4 years/50,000 miles which probably includes just one brake motor job @30k, and one major tune up @36k, and those regular oil change @5k each? or 7.5k each...

It doesn't even include the first timing belt @60k... well... you better find out that on a document instead of arguing later.

well..., if you overpaid it (like w/ dealer markups), then you 'd better try the buyback...

Originally posted by Icemastr
Do you work for a car dealership or corporate for an auto manufacturer? Have you ever heard of program cars? While I can't say for certain that Mazda isn't going to hoard all the buybacks for themselves, I don't think it would be in Mazdas' best interest to keep all the buybacks for themselves. Businesses usually like to sell their products and eliminate their losses as best they can. Mazda will offer the cars at a discount to Mazda NA employees. This is exactly what they did after the Miata buyback. Thus their employees get to buy a lightly used car at a discount, they make end consumers happy by buying their cars back and they avoid having a handful of lightly used RX-8s hit the auto auctions possibly depressing the sales price of new 8s.

do rotaries have timing belts?

Originally posted by Lovethe8
I'm thinking the only people returning their vehicles now are going to be those who "accidently" purchased this car and didnt think about their financial sitiuation...in other words..they're horrible with money! This is such a sweet deal...if I were to return the car now and go buy another, who the heck is going to give me free maintenance?!?!?

I paid CASH, and an 950. adendum, markup, because they were the only place left in town with a car that had the GT pkg

now I have a free loaner car untill october, and can buy from another dealer with 950.00 woth of extras...

some people overpayed as much as 7000.00 the dealers who thought they made great sales...
in retrospect will just be giving free loaner cars... hahaha,,,, serves them right...
those who paid msrp or less should keep the cars.. its a good deal.. IMO

Originally posted by ProtoConVert
do rotaries have timing belts?

uh I dont think so...

What about Mazda taking the reasons people sold cars back, comparing with whatever they find (wrong) in those particular cars, then improving the breed? What a waste if they only just resell them without studing them first.

This is a market and customer dis-satisfaction issue, not simply a free refund offer.

Originally posted by RobDickinson


uh I dont think so...


No they don't.

During the Miata HP issue, Mazda took possession of 250 buybacks and offered them to employees at a significant discount or as a special company lease vehicle.

Originally posted by DonG35Miata


You will acually do better with a good CRT Rear Projection set for 1/2 the money. LCD is still kind of a giimmick in the RP world. All it really offers is slimmer cabinet- otherwise, CRT is still superior.

I agree with opinion on CRT vs rear projection but this new LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) chip in high definition is supposed to be truly unbelievable......what we've been promised with High Def for the past 10 years. Wait another 6 months and Sony's SXRD LCOS chip will be even better. That's what I hate about buying anything digital.......you can always get something better and cheaper six months down the road.

Originally posted by RXhusker


Yeah -- we should all listen to this guy -- he is so smart that he can't find to way to actually pay for a car. I have no heat problems, sound problems, gas mileage problems (getting 19 to 21 MPG and driving it hard), paint problems, or believe it or not POWER problems -- but most importantly no problems actually paying for my car before leaving the lot :D And NO my head is not in the clouds -- this is the least expensive car I have owned or driven in a long time -- but the most fun to drive -- and that is why most of us bought this car to begin with. Well worth the money IMHO!

Anyone who pays cash for a rapidly depreciating asset in a time of rising equity markets and ridiculously low interest rates is an absolute moron with his money. Opportunity costs are going to make this the most EXPENSIVE car you've ever owned. My guess is that at the end of 4 years, your $30,000 car will have cost you $50,000-80,000. The good news is you ought to be able to get $9,000 for it in trade.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


I agree with opinion on CRT vs rear projection but this new LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) chip in high definition is supposed to be truly unbelievable......what we've been promised with High Def for the past 10 years. Wait another 6 months and Sony's SXRD LCOS chip will be even better. That's what I hate about buying anything digital.......you can always get something better and cheaper six months down the road.

I've seen the Toshiba LCoS and it is very good, better by far than any LCD RPTV I have seen... but not the mindblowing experience I was expecting. I still think the CRT is the way to go at 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the exotic technologies. Like cars, a lot of TV stuff is subjective, what appeals to you... in fact, it is probably even more subjective than cars!

BTW, the very best high-end front projectors ($60,000 or so a pop) are still CRT units!

People, do a little experiment.

Ride your car relatively hard for about an hour or so with something made of metal in your closed cup holder, your glove box, and your trunk. Park it with windows up and maybe put something metal near the pedals. Wait 20 minutes and return to your car and feel those metal pieces. If they are not hot to the touch then somehow you got a better insulated automobile than me. If you live in a warm climate and you're very honest, you just might find that these metal pieces are pretty damn hot.

I'll never be able to convince anyone that 18-19 mpg sucks and I'll never be able to teach anyone with a tin ear that the bose system sucks but the heat issue can be resolved with this very simple experiment.

Just be honest for once.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


Anyone who pays cash for a rapidly depreciating asset in a time of rising equity markets and ridiculously low interest rates is an absolute moron with his money. Opportunity costs are going to make this the most EXPENSIVE car you've ever owned. My guess is that at the end of 4 years, your $30,000 car will have cost you $50,000-80,000. The good news is you ought to be able to get $9,000 for it in trade.

ERR -- thanks for the investment advice ;) Maybe I should have gone to a few more of those free investment seminars instead of getting my MBA and spending a number of years as an officer of one of the largest banks in the country -- I think I can handle my own investment strategy -- hence my ability to PAY for the vehicle. I think you had better dust off the old calculator and try again with your funny numbers -- but then again you have gotten so good at coming up with funny HP equivalents -- why waste your new talent :D

Originally posted by DonG35Miata

BTW, the very best high-end front projectors ($60,000 or so a pop) are still CRT units!

I trust your sight, Don. And still mostly agree. The obvious problems with CRT are weight and curvature of glass on anything as large as 38 inches. I think the new projection chips have caught the resolution of the CRT but still lack the black blacks that you get with CRT. Getting closer with each passing months though.

How bout that RX8!! (Keeping on subject)

Originally posted by RXhusker


ERR -- thanks for the investment advice ;) Maybe I should have gone to a few more of those free investment seminars instead of getting my MBA and spending a number of years as an officer of one of the largest banks in the country -- I think I can handle my own investment strategy -- hence my ability to PAY for the vehicle. I think you had better dust off the old calculator and try again with your funny numbers -- but then again you have gotten so good at coming up with funny HP equivalents -- why waste your new talent :D

All flaming aside, Huckster, how can you disagree with what I said? How does paying cash make any sense in a time of 1.9% financing and a rebounding stock market? My portfolio has risen 52% this year alone. I'm not bragging as God knows I lost money two years ago with everyone else, but clearly the market bottomed out and is on the upswing. So spending $30,000 in cash, KNOWING it will drop to $10,000-$13,000 in four years makes little economic sense. Add opportunity costs of not putting this into something actually rising in value and yes, your car could easily end up costing you 2 to 3 times what you paid.

To me the buyback is a red flag that further could be wrong. I have nothing to support this assumption.

What happens if you take the $500 and service and then Mazda re-rates the horsepower lower again in 6 months?

The problem has still not been adequately explained.

Something is still amiss in my eyes. I'm still on the fence, and will take the time to make a rational decision.

Ok, Ok......enough already. All cars are not perfect, there's something to complain about in every car, people's perceptions, likes and dislikes are different, we all have different wants and needs and best of all we think the RX 8 is really cool and unique!
If you decide one way or the other on this thing it's ok. No one is neither right or wrong, good or bad. Let's get back to the fun of this forum and the car it's about and yes, share some concerns you are having too, in a good way. Life is too short. Peace to you all! Still waiting on my Sunlight Silver and I am getting impatient!ok:)

Originally posted by ProtoConVert
do rotaries have timing belts? No. The belt that is inspected and/or replaced as part of routine servicing is the one that drives the alternator, water pump, and A/C compressor.

Moderator, time to shut down this thread. It has served out its useful life. Between digital tv's, investment advice, personal attacks, and just general flaming it's getting hard to find any information about Buy Back or $$$ + Service.

Just before the lock!

Off-topic:
Several manufacturers make LCD, LCoS and DLP based rear-projection TVs (RPTVs). Some (from Samsung, RCA etc) are pretty cheap. Within two years most of these TVs will be cheaper than the standard CRT (3 x 7" tubes for Red/GreenBlue) based RPTVs, and won't require replacement/alignment of the tubes every few years either. Of course anyone serious about home theater will have a light controlled room and a DLP or CRT projector on the ceiling hitting a 100"+ screen...

Now back to the car-stuff:
What more needs to be said about buy-back or service: we now know that you cannot return you car and buy back a returned car (returned cars only go to Mazda emplyees) and we know the $500 is same-as-cash (not just good in a a Mazda store). To me this makes the buy-back less attractive (i.e. you need to buy a NEW RX-8 or another brand or wait a long time) and makes the service/cash no worse than expected.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


All flaming aside, Huckster, how can you disagree with what I said? How does paying cash make any sense in a time of 1.9% financing and a rebounding stock market? My portfolio has risen 52% this year alone. I'm not bragging as God knows I lost money two years ago with everyone else, but clearly the market bottomed out and is on the upswing. So spending $30,000 in cash, KNOWING it will drop to $10,000-$13,000 in four years makes little economic sense. Add opportunity costs of not putting this into something actually rising in value and yes, your car could easily end up costing you 2 to 3 times what you paid.

Timster -- That is why I said MY investment strategy which I don't feel the need to share in great detail with you. Maintaining minimal personal debt happens to be one of my goals -- more important than potential longer term gains by using a more leveraged strategy. I use my business investments for more aggressive return scenarios. Hence I care little for your little investment quips. Funny how you are such a market optimist yet RX pessimist ;) Lets hope the bulls are running with both.

Back on thread track -- Everybody just figure out if you want to ditch the asset (Buy Back) or take a little dividend payment (Service + $500) on your asset (RX-8). I for one will maintain my ownership position is this highly desireable asset and reinvest my dividend (tint, maybe a few performance goodies down the road).

The irony with my decision is that I really want to keep the car. But I don't consider it my decision whether I keep the car or not. I purchased an extended warranty that included free service for the same period I'll be getting if I take the $500. Honestly, I would not have taken that extended warranty at the price offered if it didn't include the service. But now I'm getting that service twice, so I want my money back for the one I did buy. That difference ($1200+ value, by Mazda's estimate) is enough to return the car.

Think of it this way: If the two options were to buy back the car for the price you paid, or to charge you an extra $1200 to keep the car you have, what would you choose?

Okay Huckster. Your being from Nebraska makes it a very good chance that you're a really decent person. And there is also the likelihood that you're a Cardinals fan so I'll give you additional props for that probability. Was just curious about your investment strategy.

How bout maybe answering this question........I sold my BMW to an individual through the Mazda dealership so that I could use the amount sold as a trade-in. This saved me about $1,900 in state sales taxes. If I sell the RX8 back to Mazda, do I now lose this trade-in credit when I buy again? If I buy another one that already has a VIN then I assume not, but what if I buy in January on a car yet to be built?

Oh that's a sticky problem.

Guess you'll have to keep the car ;)

Originally posted by rowentx
To me the buyback is a red flag that further could be wrong. I have nothing to support this assumption.

What happens if you take the $500 and service and then Mazda re-rates the horsepower lower again in 6 months?

The problem has still not been adequately explained.

Something is still amiss in my eyes. I'm still on the fence, and will take the time to make a rational decision.
You are thinking with logic.
They are thinking with lawyers.
I spoke with my lawyer about this today.
Bottom line: If you sued them, then they would easily be forced to buy it back anyway.
If you went to sue them for damages, the way it works is they need you to prove some damages are incurred as a result of thei false claim.

If you sued and won they would be forced to either buy back the car, or pay you a nominal small amount for damages.

Their offer eliminates this possibility.

The only thing that has changed today is that they are giving me stuff to keep a car I am ecstatic about. This is my thought...what a hoot (and a good deal).

Originally posted by canzoomer


If you sued and won they would be forced to either buy back the car, or pay you a nominal small amount for damages.

Their offer eliminates this possibility.

So you're saying that if I want my $208 for window tint, $190 for side strakes and $130 for wheel caps and valve stem caps, I should NOT take Mazda up on their offer and sue instead? That was my thoughts as well. Problem is, a lawyer is gonna cost alot more than $528.

This pretty much sucks all the way around.

Can't I just have my 210 horses at the rear wheels? Obviously, Mazda has decided it is cheaper to offer this "deal" to current owners than to bring the engine back to advertised levels.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8


So you're saying that if I want my $208 for window tint, $190 for side strakes and $130 for wheel caps and valve stem caps, I should NOT take Mazda up on their offer and sue instead? That was my thoughts as well. Problem is, a lawyer is gonna cost alot more than $528.

This pretty much sucks all the way around.

Can't I just have my 210 horses at the rear wheels? Obviously, Mazda has decided it is cheaper to offer this "deal" to current owners than to bring the engine back to advertised levels.

Well, your $500 debit car will just about buy all 3. But sorry, no more horsies for that price.

Here are my thoughts on this crap hand Mazda has dealt you guys.

Why not sell the car back to them. If you are really that in love with the car, sell it back to them, then after they lower the prices in a month or two, buy another at a much lower price or buy one of the "buy backs" at used price. If you are one of the brainwashed ones that just love the way the RX8 performs at the HP level it's at, this can be a win win situation for you.

Personally, I would sell it back to them and either wait for the MazdaSpeed version or the 2 seater if they make it. I wouldn't spend $30K on a "sports car" that can be easily beaten by the new Honda Accord or a souped up Miata. Come on guys, you've been had. Anyways, sorry that your fav. manufacturer lied to all of you, I hope you all resolve this. Good luck, but,........my S2000 is faster in every way.:p :D

But can your S2000 carry four people? Does it have a good stereo? Is it quiet inside the cabin?

There are tradeoffs to buying the RX-8 that most of us are aware of. Speed isn't the only thing, handling counts a lot too. And when you place it against the G35C in the handling department, it's an edge above. It's not S2000 level but it's really quite good, so if I have the balance of being able to carry four people plus having a great handling car... then I'll take the RX-8.

Originally posted by Hercules
But can your S2000 carry four people? Does it have a good stereo? Is it quiet inside the cabin?

There are tradeoffs to buying the RX-8 that most of us are aware of. Speed isn't the only thing, handling counts a lot too. And when you place it against the G35C in the handling department, it's an edge above. It's not S2000 level but it's really quite good, so if I have the balance of being able to carry four people plus having a great handling car... then I'll take the RX-8.

I completely agree. If carrying 4 people is the main reason you opted for the RX8 instead of other sports cars such as the S2000 and the 350Z, very wise choice. I don't have any knowledge of the G35 Coupe, but I thought it handles almost as well as the 350Z. Are you talking about the RX8 handling better than the Sedan or the Coupe?

But, how often do you intend on needing your RX8 to handle well while there are 4 people in the car? I don't drive like that when my wife in in my S2000, she would kick my ass in a heart beat! I only let loose while I'm by myself.

Don't get me wrong, I think the RX8 is a high tech peice of art, but it is overweight and underpowered for my taste. But all tastes are different. As for looks, I love the rear end of the RX8, but the front fenders are not my taste, they don't flow with the rest of the car in my opinion. Over all the car looks good though. I actually think the rear of the RX8 is shockingly similar to the rear of the S2000. Take notice the next time you see an S2000.

To S2000 Dude,

I owned the 1st year model of the S2000 (license plate was Y2K S2K.....brilliant, I know). Word then was that Honda was only going to import 5,000 cars per year and stop production after 5 years. The car was meant to be a present to the world for being in business 50 years.

If true, does this mean the 2004 model in the last that will be produced? Have you heard anything? If so, your car just might be worth a pretty penny some day.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
To S2000 Dude,

I owned the 1st year model of the S2000 (license plate was Y2K S2K.....brilliant, I know). Word then was that Honda was only going to import 5,000 cars per year and stop production after 5 years. The car was meant to be a present to the world for being in business 50 years.

If true, does this mean the 2004 model in the last that will be produced? Have you heard anything? If so, your car just might be worth a pretty penny some day.

I thnk there were supposed to only be 10,000 total made. I'm not sure about how many were supposed to come to the US. They have had good sales on the S2000 and that probably means they will more than likely go back on their word, like most car manufacturers do as all of you are sorely aware.:p :D I hope they discontue it, but the 2004 is supposed to be a 2.2L with a mid 8K redline. And ONLY 10 more HP!!!!!!! Sucks! But it will probably have more tuning potential. We will all see it should be out late this year with a new front facia.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TomsterRX8


So you're saying that if I want my $208 for window tint, $190 for side strakes and $130 for wheel caps and valve stem caps, I should NOT take Mazda up on their offer and sue instead? That was my thoughts as well. Problem is, a lawyer is gonna cost alot more than $528.

This pretty much sucks all the way around.

Can't I just have my 210 horses at the rear wheels? Obviously, Mazda has decided it is cheaper to offer this "deal" to current owners than to bring the engine back to advertised levels.
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The buyback letter says Mazda wil not refund, "aftermarket; non-genuine Mazda accessories/equipment/modifications installed after purchase. This seems to imply that they will refund for genuine Mazda accessories.

Originally posted by TracyP

The buyback letter says Mazda wil not refund, "aftermarket; non-genuine Mazda accessories/equipment/modifications installed after purchase. This seems to imply that they will refund for genuine Mazda accessories.

A true statement; I called them today. They also will not refund finance charges even if you financed through Mazda. That's a minimal amount anyway since it's only been a month or two. The will refund tax, license, that kind of stuff.

I wonder what they refund on leases... I put a down payment and such so all that would be refunded? What about payments already made?

Just out of curiosity :)

Originally posted by Hercules
I wonder what they refund on leases... I put a down payment and such so all that would be refunded? What about payments already made?

Just out of curiosity :)

Call the 800 number! There are enough nuances that I think that's why they didn't spell it out in the letter. Looks to me if you choose the buy-back they'll pretty much take care of you as far as reasonable.

I put a deposit on my replacement RX-8 (build to order) on 8-28-2003. I wonder what running changes will be made in the 3-5 months between builds...

Vince

I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to use the buy back option or not. To be honest, I'm not too concerned about the lowered hp rating. The car's fast enough for me!

It's just that the gas mileage is quite a bit lower than I expected. I commute 100 miles per day round trip. About 80/20 (highway/city) and am getting between 17-18 mpg. I had expected 22/23 mpg.

Filling up every 2.5 days at $30 a pop is my biggest issue. Followed by the back seats having less room than I expected.

Originally posted by compaddict
I wonder what running changes will be made in the 3-5 months between builds...

Vince

There should be no changes between builds. The only thing that might happen is Mazda might do fixes and "tweeks" based on TSB's and other identified problem areas, which would be transparent to you.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster


There should be no changes between builds. The only thing that might happen is Mazda might do fixes and "tweeks" based on TSB's and other identified problem areas, which would be transparent to you.

That's what I meant. Since Mazda isn't real upfront about things who knows what little enhancements might show up.

Vince

Originally posted by 8_wannabe


Uhh, liquid crystal and rear projection are two different and incompatible technologies. Other that that, I pretty much agreed with your rant. ;)

You are incorrect

Have you noticed how few people have voted in this pole, compared to the number of "views" it's received? Is everyone sitting on the fence, waiting for a miracle to happen, for someone (Boostd?) to say it ain't so, that it was all a bad dream? I keep checking out the results, hoping to see something definitive that will convince me one way or the other. Right now, I'd say 25+% returning does not bode well, given that I'd guess a good percentage of the currently undecided will opt out in the end.

Originally posted by Hayseed
Have you noticed how few people have voted in this pole, compared to the number of "views" it's received? .
DO we really know how many people on this forum even have cars? Some of the frequent posters haven't even taken delivery yet. I think 200 plus votes, if they are actual owners, is a good number at this point...25% sell back isn't.

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
What are some realistic scenarios here? What other companies have had this problem? What did they do?

Mazda: 2001 Miata - same problem, low HP. $1,500 and free service

Ford: 2000 Mustang Cobra: Same probelm. Fixed the problem in about 9 months.

Originally posted by Hayseed
I keep checking out the results, hoping to see something definitive that will convince me one way or the other.

Hayseed ,

In all due respect, why must you be convinced one way or another by this poll? If the car is not performing to your standards, or you are disappointed in any way, then take the buyback. If you are happy & satisfied, then chose the other option Mazda gives you, $ and service.

I would not let others influence my decision. Neither should you. That decision should be based on your personal experience with your car.

Now follow everybody else as they jump off the bridge. ;)

Zoomster,

In principle, you're absolutely right. But I'm a novice at all this. I love the car, absolutely. But...I've had the CEL light problems (computer was confused -- thought someone was breaking into the car! -- and though they managed to turn the light off after three days in the shop and 100+ miles on the odometer, they didn't download a patch or anything, so it could happen again), I've had the premature oil light problem (went on when it was it was still 3/4 between full and low), and I bought it with 144 miles on it (demo? who knows how it was broken in).

Just seeking guidance... Truly, though, if I sell, I'd buy a clunker to last a year, then buy the RX-8 again. Forcing myself to be practical, I went and looked at a G35c and thought it was awful. A boat. Ugly. Yuk.

So I haven't voted in the poll, yet. Still waiting for the miracle, which may be the car itself.

Hello I just heard about the service/buyback offer and was wondering how to find out if I qualifyfor it. I just took delivery of an 04 model about 4 months ago. What is the 800 number?

Hello I just heard about the service/buyback offer and was wondering how to find out if I qualifyfor it. I just took delivery of an 04 model about 4 months ago. What is the 800 number?

Forgetaboutit!

That only applied the the first few early units delivered when Mazda was claiming higher horsepower than they were delivering. Unless the one you just bought has been sitting around for a LONG time and has a very early build date, the buyback/free maintenance offer doesn't apply.

Forgetaboutit!

Unless the one you just bought has been sitting around for a LONG time and has a very early build date, the buyback/free maintenance offer doesn't apply.


And even then it wouldn't qualify- you had to have bought your car before September 1st (I believe) of 2003. Long gone.