Two plus years and counting. The RP Axiel flow & I've been Hymeed threads approaching the length of Tolstoy's "War & Peace"!!!

Sorry, the process has just taken too long for me. I will be picking up a P-car Cayman this afternoon. They're (reportedly) dynoing @ 265 +/- bhp SAE adjusted at the wheels. Its been fun. Wish MazdaSpeed, or one of the listers, could have come up with a trackable, track reliable solution

Cheers

Do you mean a Porsche Cayman?? If so, awesome car!....But you're not gonna take it to the track are you??

I don't think this is the place to post this, but congrats anyway.

bhp at the wheels? i thought bhp was flywheel hp... haha just picking on you.
Thats a sex car, have fun.

Well if you had to jump ship I'm glad you went the Porsche route--alot of the other cars these guys are leaving for suck in my opinion. Porsche will definately be next in the lineup for me too.

A stock cayman is better than the most powerful boosted RX8. :) Congrats!

Nice ride, congrats. Are they selling for MSRP yet?

As much as I love and want a Cayman, I just can't help but think that for a couple thousand more I could be driving a Z06.

Can I have your stuff?

bhp at the wheels? i thought bhp was flywheel hp... haha just picking on you.
Thats a sex car, have fun.Well ya thought wrong. The "b" is brake and all dynos require them to load the flywheel or wheels.

Brake Horsepower:

Definition: The measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump and other auxiliaries.

Well ya thought wrong. The "b" is brake and all dynos require them to load the flywheel or wheels.

:squint: :rollingla

Two plus years and counting. The RP Axiel flow & I've been Hymeed threads approaching the length of Tolstoy's "War & Peace"!!!

Sorry, the process has just taken too long for me. I will be picking up a P-car Cayman this afternoon. They're (reportedly) dynoing @ 265 +/- bhp SAE adjusted at the wheels. Its been fun. Wish MazdaSpeed, or one of the listers, could have come up with a trackable, track reliable solution

Cheers

Why not keep the RX-8 and buy an Evo for trackdays if you're looking for a trackday monster. Plus it'll be cheaper than buying a Cayman S.

Why buy another car when one can do both jobs very well.

Both ideas seem tempting though--EVO + RX8 or 1 Cayman S. The funny thing is that one Cayman will probably be worth more than the combined EVO and RX8 in a couple of years. Me personally I would wait a little while and get a slightly preowned 911--thats just because I'm a huge 911 fan. Cayman makes a compelling case though.

I agree with the whole thread thing turning into a book, I'm sure a lot of us are, but I still have some waiting left in me. :) Have fun with your Cayman!

Why not keep the RX-8 and buy an Evo for trackdays if you're looking for a trackday monster. Plus it'll be cheaper than buying a Cayman S.
As Dre said - resale. Also, don't forget insurance over two cars.

If he is looking at a porsche cayman I hope insurance is not a worry, whether it is 1 or 2 cars.

Brake Horsepower:

Definition: The measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump and other auxiliaries.
How about a source for your definition. What you described is gross horsepower which is antiquated shit nobody cares about. Factory horsepower ratings are "brake" yet they are net of the losses from ancillaries; completely contradictory to your "definition".

How about a source for your definition. What you described is gross horsepower which is antiquated shit nobody cares about. Factory horsepower ratings are "brake" yet they are net of the losses from ancillaries; completely contradictory to your "definition".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#Brake_horsepower_.28bhp.29
http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/b/b0451400.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=brake+horsepower


Indicated (http://www.answers.com/topic/horsepower#wp-Indicated_horsepower_.28ihp.29) or gross horsepower (theoretical capability of the engine) minus frictional losses within the engine (bearings, rods, etc), equals:
Brake (http://www.answers.com/topic/horsepower#wp-Brake_horsepower_.28bhp.29) or net horsepower (power delivered directly by the engine) minus frictional losses in the transmission (bearings, gears, etc.), equals:
Shaft (http://www.answers.com/topic/horsepower#wp-Shaft_horsepower_.28shp.29) horsepower (power delivered to the driveshaft) minus shaft losses (friction, slip, cavitation (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=7we9436v5vkf?tname=cavitation&sbid=lc07b), etc), equals:
Effective (http://www.answers.com/topic/horsepower#wp-Effective_horsepower_.28ehp.29) or wheel horsepower

let us know how it is. and if the lack of ltd slip hurts it? I am considering getting one after my lease is over.

Me personally I would wait a little while and get a slightly preowned 911--thats just because I'm a huge 911 fan. Cayman makes a compelling case though.

+1. A friend of mine had a CLEAN 95 911 and while it wasn't all that exciting in the driving dept., there is just something about that rear engine sound :yumyum: .

IMO the Porsche lineup just seems less "cool" with the lower priced cars (Boxster mostly, Cayman isnt cheap I know but still). I can hardly even tell the difference between the newer cars without seeing it from the back. Maybe its just me.

nice choice...

great looking car... i mean stunning...

as to the hymee and rp mentions.... dont think i saw a date of completion on any of them....

missing your point, but great looking car..


beers :beer:

mlx8
I hate you

why'd you even bother with an 8 if you can already afford a Porsche? Not to mention an Elise would have been cheaper and will probably wipe the smile off many a Cayman owner's face.

As Dre said - resale. Also, don't forget insurance over two cars.

The Evo has one of the highest resale values of any car, according to some sources the highest. It's almost always in the top 5 and is usually higher than any Porsche model. Insurance would cost a little more but often you can get cheap insurance for a car that you only drive from time to time.

If I was someone that did regular trackdays I would rather not have my track car as my daily driver if I could afford otherwise. Stock for stock the Evo and Cayman S are pretty damn close around a track, a little money put into the Evo and you have yourself one hell of a track car. I guess I'll never really get the appeal of the Cayman S, the Boxster S on the otherhand I could totally get into.

Too bad the Evo looks like ass next to a Porsche.

Too bad the Evo looks like ass next to a Porsche. Not to mention that suitcase handle for a spoiler. And the low rent interior.

Not to mention an Elise would have been cheaper and will probably wipe the smile off many a Cayman owner's face. Have you driven an Elise? It is NOT a daily driver by an means of the imagination. The cayman can easily be a daily driver.

Out of the sports cars I've driven, the porsche gives you the best of both worlds. They're the best dd sports cars around imo. And if you've got the balls, turbo the cayman s!!!!

ill take a FD thank you...

Too bad the Evo looks like ass next to a Porsche.

Because looks are so important in trackday cars...

why'd you even bother with an 8 if you can already afford a Porsche? Not to mention an Elise would have been cheaper and will probably wipe the smile off many a Cayman owner's face.


Well, FWIW I think the Rx8 has been, and probably still is, one of the best "bang for the $$$" offerings out there. And this is coming from some one who bought his Rx8 used, in July of 04, out of frustration with the lack of progress on a couple of other "tuner" projects that were so constantly in the shop, I had to rent a car to have a daily driver. Got talking to my daughter about perhaps replacing her car, went by the Mazda dealership to view a mazda6 and saw the Rx8 on the used car lot with @ 6k miles on it at the time. I innitially thought I'd buy the 8, keep it for the summer & let it go once the tuner projects got finnished. Wound up keeping the car and taking it in lieu of my Audi's to a number of Audi Club DE etc. What the Rx8 lacked in the power department, it more than made up for in handling. FWIW, at the time I was also toying with the idea of getting a Corvette ~ the new C6's had just come out, and "deals" were being offered on C5 Zo6's.

Not long after getting the Rx8, I also decided I ought to try to improve my driving skills by going someplace that purports to "teach" vs. just hanging about and trying to ad hoc "pick-up" information from self styled "driving" experts (some actually were, others were not.)

So, I looked around, did some very simple math, i.e. divided school cost/# days on offer, and went to the Spring Mountain 3 day school. I got lucky with that math equation ~ I found the Spring Mountain 3 day basic, and subsequently their 2 day advanced course very, very good values. And it didn't hurt the "school' cars are all Corvettes!! At the times I went, they were in the process of transitioning from the "older" 2004 C5 ZO6's to the new, 2005 C6 chassis cars. The "new" C6 non-Zo6 is a virtual equivalent, at least IMO, performance wise to 2004 C5 ZO6.

Say what you like about GM, but for performance Bang-for-the-buck, the Corvette is a hell of a value. Which, is a long way of going about saying, did I mention what a great car I think the Rx8 has been, and still is? As much as I enjoyed the original 5 track days in the Corvettes, after it was all said and done, I was still happy that I'd stumbled in to purchasing the Rx8 (FWIW, the local Chevy dealer pee'd in the well when the sales manager said they'd be happy to sell me a new C6 'Vette for MSRP PLUs an additional "DAMA" (Denver area market adjustment) of +$5,000.

Why? Well I think the Rx8 has made me a better driver, faster than the purchase of a Corvette ever would have. Just try chasing a Spec Miata driver around a couple of tracks! With the Corvette, having 400+ bhp (go ahead and hijack this thread now :-) ~ Woudl that mean at the wheels? or flywheel? or at the gas pedal, or with,or without avgas etc. :-). With the Rx8 I feel like I progressed to the point, so long as the track has a few corners in it, I can often hang with, if not pass a lot of people in Vette's and other much higher bhp cars. That's something I probably wouldn't be doing as well if I'd simply been able to "erase" my momentum errors with a heavy right foot and gas pedal.

As for the Cayman, I think I'm getting the point I can use, and I hope, judiciously manage a little more power. The Porsche represents, my best guess from scouting the Cayman forums, a step up of @ 80 bhp at the rear wheels over what I've been able to see with my Rx8 (somewhere in this forum I've post dyno charts for my car pre & post LWFW install.) The "best" I've ever seen as an SAE adjusted power level for my 8 has been about 175-185 bhp at the rear wheels. Cayman's (factory rated/claimed 295 flywheel horses) seem to be producing rear wheel dyno numbers, & I'm assuming SAE adjusted for altitude etc.) of @ 265 bhp.

Haven't had the Cayman to a track yet. There are already some "negatives" vis-a-vis the Rx8. Most notable is the chassis / cabin form factors. The Cayman is a 2 seater, and only a 2 seater. Had to take my daughter to the airport for a month long trip to Italy. There was no way that suit case, and both of us were going to fit in the Cayman. No problems with the Rx8. Also notable is going to be the cost factors. You can basically get two (2) nicely equiped, dare I say COMPLETELY equiped Rx8's for one modestly outfitted Cayman. Last, there was/is always the underdog appeal of the Rx8 when taking it to the Audi and BMW Club events. :-) Nothing like having some of the M3 crowd "newbies" shaking their heads trying to figure out how a little 1.3 liter red ricer econo box is constantly and persistently filling their rear view mirrors. Hopefully, the Rx8 isn't leaving the family yet, I think my daughter will be taking it over. Hope this helps explain the "defection." I don't think I have had to go if MazdaSpeed, or one of the tunner projects could have come up with a track reliable 60 - 70 bhp FI (forced induction) power upgrade to the Rx8 ~ but hey, at Miller I was being passed by Mini Cooper "S" and 2nd Gen Rx7 (albeit significanly lightened Rx7's) on the front straight!! What's with that?

Cheers

PS ~ Oh yeah re: the Elise. Nice cars, but .... we've lost most of our local area tracks. To do a lot of the HPDE's now means traveling a minimum of @ 500 miles, one way, to get to an event. 1,000+ miles round trip! I'm trying to avoid having to purchase a truck and a trailer must to be able to do HPDE's. There's no very practical way to take very much of anything, much less extra track tires anywhere with the Elise....granted the Elise is light enough it ussually wouldn't need much in the way of extra tires to finish most HPDE's and get home. FWIW, one of the people I do track events with has an Elise. The Rx8, with a good set of tires (currently I've been running 265/35x18 Michelin Pilot Sport Cups) isn't giving anything up to the Elise. For now I'm able to keep up, if not ussually pull away from him in the Elise. It's at least close enough to make things interesting.

Hey mlx8 I can feel your frustration and your experience 100%. You are spot on w/the 8 IMO. It's one very very nice car, esp on track, but it is so, ever so damn frustratingly underpowered. Like fine wines, each car has a 'flavor profile' and the 8s is sweet, w/just a touch of bitter aftertaste in that it could be, should be more than it is presently. The lightness and chassis is there, the ability to mod suspension is there, the personality is there, yet brute muscle wins on a track of any length in the end no matter how much momentum you have, no matter how easily you can close in the braking zone, go thru the twisties w/the best, etc.

The cayman is very similar, w/more Hp, quite a bit more cost, and could thru squinty eyes be a 8 psuedo-double feeling car on track. I see why you did what you did, and hope you share the results and give us some unbiased comparos in the future. Enjoy and good luck :)

Nice write up. Congrats on the Porsche. It is a nice car. I have been frustrated on occasion by the lack of power myself and have looked at trading in on a few occasions but am holding out because there is so much it does do well.

for anyone interested in a visual comparison, here are a couple of side by side shots of the Cayman with the Rx8;

FWIW, the Rx8 is fitted with:
1. Light weight Flywheel (LWFW);
2. Big brake kit. Was running a Willwood kit from BrakeZone (13" x 1.25" front rotors, Wilwood 4 piston Superlight Calipers); currently now trying out a kit from RacingBrake, 13" x 1.10 or so "special" designed rotors with Racing Brakes ? proprietary 4 psiton caliper. Not sure who designed or makes the caliper, but it uses Nissan 300 ZX style brake pads.
3. Tien electronically adjustabel coilover kit.
4. Racing Beat front & rear sway bars
5. MazdaSpeed front & rear wheel tower strut bar bracing
6. With the supplied trailer hitch, will pull a track trailer and when necessary smaill jeeps and other four wheel drive vehicles etc. :) out of trouble and to safety.

On the Rx8's plus side:
1. Great handling. The shocks can be set to extra firm for smooth track use. The car corners extreemly flat is a very "point & shoot" drive.
2. Astonishing braking capacity... over and over and over again. Did I mention astonishing? Yes, ASTONISHING!
3. Great ergonomics for traveling. Last October Colorado basically lost three of the 4, or counting La Junta 5 "local" front range tracks. Doing any amount of HPDE's now means traveling 500+ miles to venues like Miller Motorsports in Utah, Spring Mountain or Las Vegas Motor Speedway in Nevada, Mid America in Iowa, Heartland in Topeka or Hallet in Oklahoma etc.
4. Limited slip ~ I don't thing the Cayman has one. I think Porsche is relying on electronic brake/traction to provide "limited" slip functionality.
5. Sunroof. Cayman doesn't have one.
6. Steering wheel cruise & radio controls ~ especially the mute button. Cayman either doesn't have, or relies on an incredibly complex, and pretty damn expensive, but hey it does include nav, "PCM 2.1" (Porsche Comunication management) system.

On the Cayman's plus side:
1. quite a bit more power;
2. Seats ~ nice, plus I can sit up right with a helmut on. Rx8 was/is a bit head room challenged for me.
3. Head room. Will accomodate helmut without having to scrunch neck sideways.

Brakes, track handling etc. vs the Rx8, just don't know yet. I'll have to wait to get out on a track with one.

HTH someone Cheers