Well, the local dealer finally got a few 6-speeds in. I got stuck at work late and decided to swing by about 30 minutes before they closed. Got to drive a 6-speed Touring package and here's my 0.02...

First, I've been looking forward to this car for a while... very interested in it once I read more about it. I've driven all previous generations of Rx-7s.

I also sat in a RX8 at one of the MRIU events, plus reading everything I can under the sun about it and what you fine folks at the forum here discuss... so I didn't need to hear much yammering by the sales guy. :)

Ok... a little about me first to set the stage. I've owned a bunch of different cars, but currently own a Ford Contour with a V-6 and 5-speed. But I have a little one to think about now too, and when thinking about a new car, I have to keep him in mind (4-passenger, 4-doors). I also have a 125cc shifter kart for fun, so that's going to make most street cars feel fairly tame to me up to 75 mph or so.

The other cars I'm going to look at are the 3-series BMWs (325 and 330) and the IS300. My requirements are it's got to fit 4 people and has to be rear drive. Might consider the G35 sedan as well. But the RX8 is the first car of those I've driven. Oh, also test drove a Volvo S60R (wife's a Volvo nut), but that car is experiencing teething pains seemingly worse than the R, so it's off the list now.

First, I knew that a moonroof car was going to be wrong for my body type... no surprise there. But I also found something else I didn't notice at MRIU: The cloth seats.

While I like the seating surfaces actually better than the leather in the 8s, the cloth seats do not have the hard shell on the backs of the seats like the leather ones do. I didn't like that, as when I sat in the back seat, the cloth draped on the seatbacks (near where the knees touch) seemed to hang loosely on the seat and snag my knees on the way out. I didn't like that at all. The cloth on the back also seemed cheap. I'd much prefer they keep that hard plastic shell on all of the seat backs, not just the leather. But other than that, when I was sitting "in" the drivers seat and not behind them, I really liked the way they felt... comfy yet supportive enough for spirited driving.

Otherwise, the interior was very nice. I liked just about everything, but I can see how some owners lack confidence in the front cupholder cover. Doesn't seem so solid. I also didn't care for the power window switches for some reason... seemed like the wrong shape for the angle they were on, but I'm sure I'd adjust.

Ok, fire it up. Nice engine sound. The rotary is defintely unique. I thought the visibility out of the car was decent... not as bad as I thought.

I noticed right away at parking lot speeds that the steering, the clutch, the accelerator, the brakes... all worked with a nice fluidity. I didn't kill the car upon takeoff either, something I can't say about the Volvo R, even though it makes 300 lb/ft at 1800 RPM. The clutch is very sweet and predictable in its takeup.

Also, I was taking it relatively easy on the car, as I didn't want to freak the sales guy and it was at night on a route I hadn't taken before.

But in going easy at first, I noticed that even though the car didn't have low-RPM grunt, it was very tractable. I could accelerate lightly at 2000 RPM in 6th and the engine just smoothly pulled the car forward. No lurching, no driveline snatch. Nice.

The xenons were also spectacular at night. It's the first car I've ever driven with them, but whichever car I get next will have them. The RX8's are fabulous: a clear, even pattern, much better than the blotchy halogen mess shown by my Contour.

The gearbox was great. I loved the short lever, short throws and good feel. I thought it was a little "oversprung" toward the center, as I found myself not pushing over far enough to overcome that "springyness" to get to 5th and 6th gears at first, but once I knew that, it wasn't a problem.

Ok, the much talked about power. Yes, I also thought it "felt" kind of wimpy. My Contour, with 170 ft/lb at 2,500, felt snappier. But I think it's only partially the fact that the power is made so high up the curve. I think the other thing that makes it feel slow is that the power builds so linearly even when it comes on that you don't get the "VTEC" kick or the sensation in a turbo that the boost is coming on. It just seamlessly eases its way into the powerband.

Just about anything feels weak after coming out of a shifter kart, but the RX8 is not a car that will wow you with a big acceleration push unless you're coming out of a Geo Metro or something similarly gutless. Anything that has a "hit" to its powerband will feel stronger than the 8, even if it's actually not. But the way the 8 goes about it -- smoothly, seamlessly -- is very, very nice.

And to underscore that thought, every time I looked at the speedo after accelerating a bit, I was going faster than I thought. That sort of smooth "no-kick" performance I think would be nice when having other passengers in the car and needing to gun it..

Didn't really jump on the brakes, but nothing stood out there in a bad way, which is good. :)

The handling... very, very nice. I like the steering weighting and feel. I didn't think it was overboosted, it felt very linear and effort built nicely as cornering forces built. I really only pushed slightly hard on one corner, and was impressed with the poise the chassis had and how smoothly it loaded up under the cornering force.

I was also pretty impressed with the ride. Not a Caddy, but it didn't pound you to death at all.

In all, I was impressed. A very nice car, and also one that was very tight and well built.

I'm not too concerned about the lack of kick in the powerband... that's what the shifter kart's for. :)

But for now, it will set the standard on my test drive list. The 3-series, IS300 and G35 will have their work cut out for them. All the moves the 8 makes just seem "right."

I'll report more later, because I'm sure I'll drive it again soon, when my wife will also drive it.

Until then, I tip my hat to you RX8 owners... you've got a very nice car.

PS -- I liked the RX8 more than the S60R. Although the S60R is much, much faster on the engine side, the RX8 is better as a whole... everything seems so much more integrated from a driving standpoint.

Nicely written. Thanks.

Thanks for the input. I would say, though, that you are, if not comparing apples to oranges, comparing Granny Smith's to Macintoshes. The BMW and Lexus are practical sedans that are sporty, while the 8 is a sports car that is practical. I know *why* you're lumping them in, however, because I have the same quandry: balancing the need for fun and the need for car-seat space.

Z... that's a valid point, and one I grasp. But like you also say, there's a quandry there. :)

And hey, Mazda brought it upon themselves! :mad: They're the ones that blurred the lines on this "sports car/sedan" issue with those 2 extra little doors and decent rear seat room. :)

I drove the 325i (Sport Package) last night. Problem is, that's also a very nice car. Not brimming with a lot of power, it's otherwise quite nice. It didn't feel drastically slower than the RX8, as it's Car and Driver "street start" time is less than a second off the RX8. (7.5 vs 8.2 or something).

Also, my wife likes it. I am going to take her to look at the 8 today.

The 325i, like the RX8, also has a very nice ride/handling tradeoff.

The one thing I didn't like about the 325 is that the accelerator pedal seems to 1) be at a wierd angle, and 2) seems to have a lot of tip-in response, with not a real linear feel as you approach full throttle. It "feels" like you've hit full throttle at what your foot tells you (pedal travel wise) is 3/4 throttle.

But other than that, the trans works well, the clutch works well, although I still have to dive the RX8 the nod in both categories.

My wife will have input into the decision, no question. I'm not going to try and say otherwise. :)

But it will take a drive of the IS300 tonight, then another drive of -- at the very least, and possibly the IS300 if I like it -- the RX8 and 325 again because at this point it's still a tough call.

Anyway, this is definitely fun, all this tire-kicking and driving of good cars. So I'm going to enjoy the ride while trying to make a decision. ;)

--Dave

PS -- Hey Z, what other boards do you frequent? I recognize that name... roadbike review perhaps? Just wondering...

Last update:

Drove an auto IS300. Dealer didn't have a stick in sight.

Nice car dynamically. Good steering, good body control, firm brake pedal. Ride was a touch firm, but that's something for the wife to fret over (who has her soft-sprung Volvo V70 to smooth her stretch of road).

However, I have to say the interior was disappointing. Looked cheap to my eyes, like the Altezza it is... plasticy with generic Toyota controls. It's not bad, but it's not as good as the RX8 or the 3-series.

The car also felt a lot smaller than the 3-series. The interior numbers shake out about the same, but the numbers seem to fib a bit, as the sensation of the IS300 felt smaller.

Now for the RX8's death sentence: the little lady. She's like a whopping 5-1, but she was totally claustrophobic in the rear of the RX8 we sat in today. I know plenty of folks have kids in car seats just fine in their 8s, but my wife totally did not think it would work.

Just knowing her, the way she was referring to the 8's size meant it wasn't going to fly. Not even a crack in the armor like, "it's a little small back here," that would've left room for me to put my best "salesman" hat on to get her to see the light. No. It was black and white, so I didn't even bother.

Bummer, because even after my brief, single 10-minute test drive, I really thought the 8 was a great overall package. Everything about it is so well integrated in terms of feel that it's like the car is an extension of your body and brain... it just does everything effortlessly and intuitively. Other than lacking torque, not a single negative thing really stood out from a driving standpoint.

So it looks like a Sport-packaged 325i will be it. I like it, except for the overeager throttle response and bottom-hinged throttle. A 330 would be better, but not for an extra 7k. The 325 does everything really well, but it's a sedan, not the 8, so dynamically it's not *as* satisfying. But it's a great car and it's got the green light. So I've got to run with it before she tells me to get a Hyundai. :)

I'll still lurk on this board because I still love the 8 and am still interested in it.

Thanks for all the informative posts about the 8... and keep them coming!

--Dave

Nice review.

Originally posted by racerdave
...

Now for the RX8's death sentence: the little lady. She's like a whopping 5-1, but she was totally claustrophobic in the rear of the RX8 we sat in today. I know plenty of folks have kids in car seats just fine in their 8s, but my wife totally did not think it would work.

Just knowing her, the way she was referring to the 8's size meant it wasn't going to fly. Not even a crack in the armor like, "it's a little small back here," that would've left room for me to put my best "salesman" hat on to get her to see the light. No. It was black and white, so I didn't even bother.

...
--Dave

Does your wife treat you like a chauffeur? Tell her to get her ass in the front seat!

Seriously, I'm a little bewildered - my wife is 5'7 and my son is 5'8, and he sits behind her in the 8 with no problem. Maybe your wife needs a Hummer!

And folks wonder why I'm single?! :(

Originally posted by racerdave
Now for the RX8's death sentence: the little lady. She's like a whopping 5-1, but she was totally claustrophobic in the rear of the RX8 we sat in today. I know plenty of folks have kids in car seats just fine in their 8s, but my wife totally did not think it would work.What's your wife doing in the back seat?

Neither I nor anyone I know puts their wife in the back seat when they drive...

Hey, all I can say is, right off the bat I put her in the <i>driver's</i> seat. She climbed back there on her own. :(

khoney... I think the problem was she saw and drove the 325 first. With the additional windows, etc, it gives the impression of being a lot more spacious. I tried to get her to see the 8 first, but had trouble getting to that dealer first that day.

Lensman... oh, how true! :)

In fact, she said, "you came to look at this car about 3 years too late." (that was before we knew we'd be planning a family... the boy is 18 mo. old now).

Ah well, I'd knew I'd catch cr@p for it. :)

But at least I tried. :)

In fact, she said, "you came to look at this car about 3 years too late." (that was before we knew we'd be planning a family... the boy is 18 mo. old now).

And when your kid is all grown up you can buy a used RX-8 and recapture those lost years.
Timing is everything.

I had two recent BMW 3 series cars. While it's true, the back seat of the BMW has more room and bigger windows than the RX8, maintenance will cost a lot more on the BMW. Dealer oil changes ran me $70 a pop. Tune-ups ran $300. Major services....well.....let's just say you may want to consider renting out a spare room to a BMW tech.

As everyone else said, it's really an "apples to oranges" comparison.

IF you can't make the financial case to your wife, maybe you should try the old "....honey, I won't be happy with the BMW. You want me happy, DON'T YOU?"

If you're keeping the Volvo, I don't see where the issue is with the back seat. IF you aren't keeping the Volvo, I think your wife deserves a nice Hyundai (I think they come standard with front and side airbags, too). That should satisfy her safety concerns.

that rx-8 has 8 air bags, count em, 8!

thats german technology right there...lol

man that sucks...try pleading with her
its also jus tthe high walls that make her feel squished in the back, cause it has more room in the back than the is300 (at least in my experience)


anyways, have fun driving whatever you end up with
________
HOT PENNY STOCKS (http://pennystockpicks.net/)

Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!

Guess what? Now that the RX-8 is on the "S-Plan," it's back at the top of the list!!

I told my wife about the S-Plan price and about the car, and I've been slowly chipping away at her. Then yesterday she says, "I saw one yesterday and it *was* cool."

Then I told her the experience of another 3-series owner who had a 325iT (wagon) that just bought an 8. He said the car seat fits better in the 8 than it does in the 325! That was a big help, along with the pics he had.

Then I mentioned that rear-seat room is no worse than the IS300 we also considered.

Last, I told her that I showed a picture of it to my 23-month-old son and asked if he liked it. He said yes, so that means we have to get it now. :)

Seriously, I liked the 8 more than anything. The 325i is nice for a sedan, but it's also 5-6K more expensive. I'd be giving up a little utility going with the 8 over the 325, but we have the V70 wagon to take care of that.

So... persistance pays! If all continues to go well... I'll be an 8 owner in a few months!

Originally posted by racerdave
So... persistance pays! If all continues to go well... I'll be an 8 owner in a few months!

Congrats! FWIW, we sold my wife's 97 Contour SE (V6, 5 spd) for our RX-8. The 8 actually has better head room in the back seat, and knee room is similar. I'm 5'10", and I can sit behind my drivers seat setting without my knees touching the seatback - my 6'0" 15 yr old son sits back there comfortably. On the passenger side of the back seat, my 5 yr old daughter's booster seat is placed, and she LOVES riding in the RX-8, even though she doesn't see quite as much as when she's in the back seat of our Audi. Some of the intial reviews put it well - the back seat is not cramped, it's cozy! Still comfortable, but gives the feel of an executive jet (especially with the small side window. We find that it's a most reasonable second family car.

Regards,
Gordon

Thanks for the feedback Gordon. :)

Any and all "pro-RX-8" propaganda like this is welcome ammo for my wife. So keep it coming. :D

I think we have her converted, but like someone said, "Too much is never enough." :D

Ok, here's "kind of" a funny story.. and shows off a nice feature of the 8 that people with kids might appreciate..

I have the GT package with leather seats.

Im single, but I have 2 goddaughters that I drive around alot.. Ones 1 and the other just turned 3...

I was sitting in the driveway in the drivers seat , parked with the 3 year old in my lap, listening to the stereo when all of a sudden she has to pee.. well before I could get her out of the car she let loose like a firehose.. well it drains right out the back of the seat and righ tonto the rear mat that I had scotchguarded..

So all I had to do was wipe it up, but there was no "pool" soaking into my leather seats. No fuss no muss cleanup!

Luckily, when I told my wife I was getting an 8 (after deliberating between it, the G35 coupe, and the TT coupe... I had the whole four seat restriction too) she was happy. She liked the looks of the car, and when I finally decided on Yellow, and she saw it at the dealership next to a couple other cars (black and red) she really liked the way it stood out.

As for the leather... One day my little Princess got sick in the back seat... Lucky for me, the leather cleaned up real easily, soaked up no juice, and none of the chunks got stuck...

Nice, gross stories. Thanks for sharing, guys. Really. :D

Seriously, I'd get leather *if* it was a standalone option. I need to separate the moonroof from the leather in order to suit my needs.

It ticks me off that I can't order leather and seat heaters separately.

Well, my point was really that the "pass through" sections of the front seat keep liquid from pooling in the seats.. If the cloth seats have the same function and you scotch guarded them it would probably have the same effect as the leather. Besides, your wife will understand our gross references!

Originally posted by racerdave
Seriously, I'd get leather *if* it was a standalone option. I need to separate the moonroof from the leather in order to suit my needs.

It ticks me off that I can't order leather and seat heaters separately. Ah, but you CAN get leather without the sunroof... just not from Mazda! Just check this thread out: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15516, then get a sport package RX-8. :D

Congrats on your potential change in fortune too. I know the car gets under your skin somehow, and once I'd driven an '8, nothing else "felt" right... including the G35, IS300, 325i, WRX, Evo, etc. Go for it man, you'll never regret it! :)

One other thing.. if you (or the Mrs) like the 325, you really should take a look at the Mazda 6S with the sport package... about $23500 with the S-plan, loaded.

Originally posted by guy321
Well, my point was really that the "pass through" sections of the front seat keep liquid from pooling in the seats.. If the cloth seats have the same function and you scotch guarded them it would probably have the same effect as the leather. Besides, your wife will understand our gross references!

Ah, yes, Scotchguard would work.

And yep, gross references are part of the parent (and dog owner... don't ask about that one!) territory.

:D

Thanks Omicron... well, leather is a possibility, but I want seat heaters too! :) If Mazda made the leather/heat option a standalone option, I'd be all set.

As for the other cars, yep, you're exactly right.

And for the Mazda 6... it's a lot better than my Contour, but it's still WAY too similar for my tastes. (front-drive, duratec, etc)

Nope... it's 8 or bust! :D

Originally posted by racerdave
Thanks Omicron... well, leather is a possibility, but I want seat heaters too! :) If Mazda made the leather/heat option a standalone option, I'd be all set.

You don't list a location, but I'll assume you're in the US. If so, this isn't much help to you, but in Canada we get two RX-8 packages, GS (cloth) and GT (leather, seat heaters, xenons, DSC, etc). The only factory options on our GT package are moonroof and Nav. My car is the "base" GT, so it's got leather and heated seats, but no moonroof. So, they do make different combinations, just that the one that you need isn't sold there. :(

Regards,
Gordon

Has anyone yet mentioned how the lack of a B-pillar makes putting in a child safety seat (or dog crate -- my "kid's" version of a car seat) SO much simpler than maneuvering one into a typical four-door's back seat? Easy in, easy out! The wife will surely appreciate that.

And another "woman-friendly" note -- the illuminated vanity mirrors are great! The light really is aimed right where you need it. Not that I'm guilty of touching up my mascara while zooming down the freeway or anything. That's nuts! Hmmm... sounds like a topic for another thread. ;)

Originally posted by racerdave
Any and all "pro-RX-8" propaganda like this is welcome ammo for my wife. So keep it coming. :D


Show her the video of the Top Gear review on BBC (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3040&referrerid=1).

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
You don't list a location, but I'll assume you're in the US. My car is the "base" GT, so it's got leather and heated seats, but no moonroof.
Regards,
Gordon

DOH!!! Exactly right Gordon. In the US.

And I'd order your car... EXACTLY. Same options, same color.

Dumbing down the options with all the "packages" in the US is rather annoying :mad:

rx-8-or... I'm not sure I'm going to show her that right away. She doesn't need to know it's as fast around a road course as an M3 until *after* I get it. :D

Aratinga... yeah, that would be easier getting the little one out. Oh, and nice looking pooch. Is that a Shiba Inu? (I probably killed the spelling...)

Price is a major factor. It is a great car and as a 4 seater, you would be hard pressed to find another car that had the 50/50 weight and other handling factors better than the 8. The closest cars would be the bimmers. IMO.

Say all you want, but after having a 2002 325 and a 2003 G35 coupe,which I still own, RX8 is the best!