hi all,

i'm new here. have always been a fan of the rx8's exterior/interior appearance, the suicide doors, and the handling characteristics. i have a friend who is looking to get a sports car, used, under $23k, and since he is not very familiar with the overall automotive arena, i wanted to help him out.

RX8:

pros: great handling, comfortable ride, 4 doors with a coupe's sexy appearance, 4 seats as well as a decent trunk. beautiful interior and good seats.

cons: eats engine oil, engine might flood, poor mpg, lack of torque and overall power. doesn't respond to power mods well (n/a or FI). blind spots due to crampy interior.

350z:

pros: great handling (not as good as rx8), very good low end torque for the streets, and good power overall. roomier interior relative to rx8. more reliable than rx8 in general.

cons: 2 seats, doesn't respond to power mods well, unless FI is employed. ride quality not as good as rx8 (but not very sure since i havn't driven/sat in one). pretty much useless trunk. bad mpg (but slightly better than rx8)

RSX-S:

pros: economical: good storage space being a hatchback, good MPG, decent acceleration (pretty much the same as rx8), good handling for a fwd. roomy interior, 4 seats (though small backseats). comfortable ride quality. responds very well to n/a and FI mods. honda reliability. good entry level car for beginners, less chance of wrecking since it's fwd.

cons: doesn't handle as well as the rx8/350z being fwd.

so basically it comes down to which car has the best practicality and performance combination.

power: 350z.
handling: rx8.
practicality: rsx-s (storage). rsx-s and rx8 tie for seats.
styling: my friend's leaning toward rx8 as am I.
response to mods: rsx-s.
reliability at factory trim: rsx-s.
price: rsx-s.
mpg: rsx-s.
ride quality: rx8.

trying to see if anybody has more inputs/opinions about these 3 cars, or if anybody else could think of a good car to compete with these 3. my friend's not a car buff, so please no cheap-car-with-mods ideas.

also these cars are out for one reason or another:

srt-4, s2k, miata, mr2 turbo, 240sx, mustang, wrx.

also my friend hasn't driven any of these cars, while i've driven the rx8 and rsx-s.
for now he wants a car that is better at handling than power, but that's not for sure since he hasn't driven a good handling and/or powerful car. he's coming from a 2000 toyota avalon.

Thanks!

:)

p.s. will add more if i remember anything else that i'm missing on this list.

p.p.s. insurance is different for everybody, so let's not include it as a factor for now.

well, the rsx is a nice car for getting groceries or if you are a tennager, but it doesnt even look grown up. Plus the fact that if you want a sports car then fwd is like an oxy-moron
Of course youll here a lot of praise for the rx8 but its not just because its an rx forum. Its cause its the best bang for buck out there for appearance, power, handling, and seating all in the same pkg.
Also, the 350z will go through tires more that the rx8 burns quarts of oil. :hahano:
Luigi

Ok, how in the hell did a RSX make it onto the same list as a RX-8 and 350z?? :p:

I'll pretend this is just a toss up between the 8 and the Z.

I chose the RX-8 based on looks, handling and I love the rotary engine. The Z is quite fast and looks nice, but I prefer the way the 8 looks, handles and the engine is just so much fun. It's not as powerful but the gearing and 9000rpm redline make it a LOT more fun in the corners.

I'm going to venture a guess that the RX-8 will win this one. :rolleyes:

A forum full of RX8 owners that already had to make that choice.... hmmm, what will they choose?

The Z is like a lot of other cars . . . name me one that is like an R8. Nothing I have ever driven 'connects' to me like Seamus does.

to give you some background, my previous car was a 2000 civic si (modded yet clean looking) and i'm a long-time fan of honda.

i test drove the 3 cars that you mentioned (along with several others including the s2000) extensively, and chose the 8. i could go into how good the price/performance, handling, interior, fun factor, looks, etc are, but i'd suggest just having your friend drive one, as the jet-like 8 basically sells itself.

as for the "response to mods" factor... the rsx-s is in a completely different class and it'd take a ton of $$$ to get it to perform and handle like a sports car, whereas the 8 is already there. one interesting thing to note, is that insurance was actually CHEAPER on the rx-8.

ps another con for the rsx-s is the chick factor, as it's much less impressive than the 8 or the z.

The new Honda Civic. Rice her up and enjoy

RSX-S: decent acceleration (pretty much the same as rx8 practicality: rsx-s (storage). rsx-s and rx8 tie for seats.

Not a bad analysis, but two things I disagree with.

The S is "pretty much" the same in acceleration? Then the Z is "pretty much the same" to the 8 if you give or take half seconds. All major mags have tested 8's at 5.9/6.0 sec. for 0-60 and 14.4/14.5 in the 1/4, the S is usually tested a half second slower.

Practicality? The guy is going from an Avalon, the rear seats on an 8 is bigger, as are the advantages of the rear doors, so advantage 8.

Also, the 350 DOES respond well to mods, and front wheel drive IS NEVER better.

...thats it!

This may sound like a blasphemy, but if he's not a car buff, he might enjoy the RX-8 the most of those 3. He'll probably find the Z to be raw and harsh (though a great sports car for dedicated enthusiasts), and the RSX-S to be small and cramped (coming from an Avalon).

The cool thing with the 8 is when you're NOT pushing it (OK, it's rare, but it happens), the car becomes very docile and comfortable. The lack of torque makes it very easy to drive around town, when parking, etc. And the suspension, while stiffer than an Avalon, is very livable day-to-day.

Just make sure he can deal with 18mpg and checking the oil level regularly (<-IMPORTANT).

The cool thing with the 8 is when you're NOT pushing it (OK, it's rare, but it happens), the car becomes very docile and comfortable. The lack of torque makes it very easy to drive around town, when parking, etc. And the suspension, while stiffer than an Avalon, is very livable day-to-day.

Very true, one of the things that helped me overcome my aversion to a RWD car (Michigan Winters.... *shudder*) is that the low-end torque isn't outrageous so I won't go spinning off the road should I give it a little too much gas on an icy road.

uhmmmm lets see I think I choose the RX-8
Kind of a silly question to ask 25,000 RX-8 owners what car they prefer.
But what the heck, you'll get the answer you were looking for .
The RX-8 is the best.

I wonder which car will come out ahead in the poll!

I'd go with the RX8 or 350Z. Test drive them and then pick. Both are great cars!

I wonder which car will come out ahead in the poll!
The CROSSFIRE!!!!!

um....why don't you post this toll on the 350z & rsx site and see what happen?

um....why don't you post this toll on the 350z & rsx site and see what happen?

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194099&highlight=rx-8

350z:

pros:roomier interior relative to rx8.


Um NO! It has no backseats!!!! The salesman had to literally pour me out of the Z after my test drive.

it's obvious that if you come here...people will choose the 8
in the 350z world people will choose the Z
you'll prolly get a better response from the rsx guys (IMO) but ofcourse some of them will choose their rsx over the 8 and Z

Look at the RSX site for a few minutes. Apparently they're having quite a time with transmission problems despite the number of years the car has been in production. My gf's Acura TL has had 5 new transmissions. Not sure what the prob with Acura is on this score. Must admit my old Integra was a solid car . . . sadly it had a zero passion quotient. Just a car.

I think your friend should buy a Miata. Super fun, heavily modifiable, rear wheel drive fun-in-the-sun top down cruising. Might I suggest a 94 Laguna Blue with the C package. A rare color and comes with tan leather seats, A/C, cruise control . . . in fact, I might even know someone that could hook you up with a beauty like that. :mdrmed:

I am truly shocked to learn that car owners prefer their own cars.

Must admit my old Integra was a solid car . . . sadly it had a zero passion quotient. Just a car:
Should have sprung for the Type R.

Just so you know, the RSX-S responds VERY well to mods. so if you're looking for a car that responds well stock.. stick with the rx-8, if you want a car that responds well to mods, get the Z or rsx-s

I/H/E + the Hondata and you will hit low 13's where as the RX-8 Doesnt respond so well to mods, unless it is F/I of course.

It was a bit of an impulse buy. My 83 RX-7 had well over a 100k on it and I got an incredible deal from a co-worker that was parting with an Integra. I felt it would be a better commute car and would extend the life of the RX. It served the purpose well for about 4 years. Great car but having come from an RX and previously an Austin Healey, I just could never get quite as unthusiastic about it as some of my other cars. It was almost too perfect . . . I like a car that requires my attention as perverse as that may be. But thanks for the suggestion BlueEyes, somehow I knew I could count on you.:smoker:

get a Hyundai Accent they are fun cars

Of all the professional reviews I have read that compare the 8 to the Z they all selected the 8 over the Z despite the HP advantage. It always came down to the 8 being a overall better car. All the Z has over the 8 is power, which is a big factor, but that is it.

Z is better for:
- Power
- Company Support (Mazda's support of the 8 sucks)

They are tie for:
- Handling (but the 8 is far more nimble, Z gets it done but you have to manhandle it.)
- Breaking
- On the Track

8 is better for:
- Body dynamics
- Comfort
- Trunk Space
- Practicality - 4 seats
- Interior Quality
- Ride quality
- Auto Crossing

RX8:

pros: great handling, comfortable ride, 4 doors with a coupe's sexy appearance, 4 seats as well as a decent trunk. beautiful interior and good seats.

cons: eats engine oil, engine might flood, poor mpg, lack of torque and overall power. doesn't respond to power mods well (n/a or FI). blind spots due to crampy interior.
Oil: I use about 1 quart per 3,000 miles. I don't see any issue here.

Flooding: Overstated, but I think 1) it's mainly with the 04 model year, and 2) it's pretty much been solved by Mazda.

MPG: Depends on what you compare it to...

Car - city - highway
Viper - 12 - 20
M3 - 16 - 24
Mustang GT - 17 - 25
RX-8 - 18 - 25
G35 - 18 - 25
350Z - 19 - 25
S2000 - 20 - 26
Torque/Power: As compared to what? A Viper? Do you want more power or more mileage? Do you understand they're opposites? Try this on a test drive: in 4th gear at highway speeds, floor it. You'll be pleasantly surprised (or scared). ;)

Blind spots: Use the mirrors and there won't be any.

Crampy interior: As compared to what?!? Are you interested in a sports car or a grannywagon?

Most of your "cons" are non-issues in my experience. But IMO, if you buy used, steer clear of 04's. The first model year always has more problems.

the z is a great car, and I almost got one, but here is my perspective:

the two greatest times I have had in my z have been

1) Weekend trips to Phoenix (from Tucson) with my wife and daughter - just not possible in a z

2) Trips to the Golf course with my friend and his dad (who drives a minivan haha) - the z has to give instructions for storing two golf bags, where do the third person and bag go?

z is no fun if I have to take my Titan cause we can't all fit

Most of your "cons" are non-issues in my experience. But IMO, if you buy used, steer clear of 04's. The first model year always has more problems.It's not even the entire 2004 model lineup, it's mostly with the cars that have a build date from 2003. They retooled the assembly on the fly, so there is no magic change that happened from 2004 to 2005 models.

thanks a lot for ur responses guys.

i know there will be biased opinions as this is an rx8 board. but i'm looking for ppl who might have went from rsx-s/350z to rx8 to chime in; those ppls' opinions will be most valuable in this discussion.

also, if u have nothing to contribute to my question other than questioning my intention of creating this thread, just ignore the thread, instead of posting tollish comments like "i wonder which car will win". yea the rx8 will win, but everybodys opinions in between posts are what i'm looking for.

the rx8/rsx-s both trap within 1-3 mph in 1/4 mile, whereas the 350z is 4-6 mph higher. that's a big difference for roll-on races.

another thing is my friend doesn't know how to drive manual yet. i'm teaching him now, but i dont want him to go test drive nissan/mazda's flagship sports cars and stall them in the parking lot. so for now i'm just lookin for other ppls' opinions.

the rsx-s is only in the discussion because it's a good entry level car, and it is economical like the rx8. keep in mind this discussion is aimed toward which car is best for my friend, not for u.

again, thanks for the inputs. but any more comments then keep posting them :)

Forgot another point the 8 has over the Z, weight or lack of it. The Z puts in at 300 plus lbs. more then 8. This added weight detracts greatly from the handling and explains why the Z needs such a stiff ride to keep up with the 8 in the turns.

On the other hand the Z will get better mpg.

I think if you are buying a 2 seat performance sports car you would have to pick the z over the 8 .
But the 8 is so much more practicle , looks better , handles better and is only marginally slower .
While I have a need to transport more than 1 other person the 8 is the only logical choice for me .

Edit : with some mods to make the 8 as quick as a stock z for approx. the same $ the z argument is very weak .

Very true, one of the things that helped me overcome my aversion to a RWD car (Michigan Winters.... *shudder*) is that the low-end torque isn't outrageous so I won't go spinning off the road should I give it a little too much gas on an icy road.


What car do you drive? I live near Ann Arbor....
Do you have an 8?

Edit : with some mods to make the 8 as quick as a stock z for approx. the same $ the z argument is very weak .
haha, just like that. Slap some mods on and you're good to go!

there will be some surprised z owners when enough tuned interceptor x (+ all the other bolt ons) equiped cars are out there.

The number of seats is huge factor in buying a car and even comparing a car. It really annoys me when people compare the 350Z and S2000 with the RX-8 because they aren't the same. If you added 2 more seats to either of the cars, it becomes a whole a new car. Weight will change, measurements will change, handling will change, style and practicality...

If you're buying a car as your daily driver, it just makes sense to get something with 4 seats. Even if you never use em. It could mean life or death if you need to drive more than 1 person to the hospital... "sorry dude, only room for 1!".. LOL...

Well, if your friend is looking for the best combination of performance and practicality, as well as great handling over performance, the answer is RX-8.

The 350Z would be my choice if the preference was sheer performance or non-compromise sports car character, but practicality and handling are the strenghths of the RX-8, in everyday driving reality as well as in every test you'll find.

For one, the Civic SI is a better car than the RSX Type S, anyone that buys an RSX right now is most likely just a badge whore. Also, it seems the GTI should be on your friend's listy, it's a fun little car, has a great interior, takes well to mods, is very practicle, and has the convenience of a hatch.

Get a S2000 if your friend don't mind the 2 seats and price

thanks guys.

the new Si is a good car, but my friend doesnt like the way it looks :(

also the s2000 is out because it's a convertible and my friend prefers a hardtop over his head.

yea it seems the rx8 should be the logical choice in this comparison....i guess the biggest things we're worried about are the reliability with the engine.....with our budget an 05 is out of reach, and it seems the 05 is the problem-free model...

my friend doesn't drive stick, and if the automatic rx8 was close to the power of the manual then we'd go test drive the automatic in a heartbeat....but the manual has over 40hp+ so the automatic won't do the manual justice...guess i'll just have to teach my friend how to operate manual first..

Love this poll. These were my choices before I bought. Guess what I picked?

I may have ended up with a Z, had I not had one of the worst dealer experiences ever. Thank God, a good friend convienced me to look at the 8 again.

The 8 is the first manual car I have owned. I had driven a stick a couple times, enough to be able to say I can drive stick, but not within a year of picking up the 8. To be honest, it's not a hard car to drive. Hold it at say 2500, release the clutch evenly and you go. It's a very tame car in the low end. If your friend likes driving, and by the choice of cars I would say he does, he should really switch over to stick, the earlier the better. The manual has ~40 more hp at the crank, but 50-60 more HP at the wheels. It's literally ~150% more power delivered. I test drove an automatic and didn't even like it.

check out some reviews

rx8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2emH4ihqMU

350z:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S3FFoqObt4&search=%22top%20gear%22%20350z

The RSX, besides being discountinued, is not in the same class as the other 2. A sporty car and a sports car are 2 very different things.

The rsx is a nice looking car, very little room in the back seats, good trunk space, reliable, easy to mod with huge after market support, and is probably one of the best handling front wheel drive cars you can buy. Best front wheel sporty car you can buy, other then it's twin the civic vtec.

The 350 is a beast on torque, but does weight alot for such a small car, which you can feel going into tight turns. It does not handle as well as an 8, but it is a very good handling car compared to whats out there. Easy to mod, but expensive. Less room then the 8, and in many people's opinion, very cheap feelin interior. They have had several mechanical issue but most have been worked out. The autos are about as fast as the manuals. No trunk space as they have a huge bar across the back, harsh ride and a work out to drive. One of the best raw sports car on the market.

The Rx8 is low on torque, but delivers very well at higher rpm's. Very good handling and a very easy car for spirited driving. Good space and adult usable back seats. Decent trunk space but small opening. Smooth manual, but underpowered auto. The car gives you a very connected to the road confident feeling. Gas milage is less then expected. most mechanical problems have been worked out. More exotic looking then the other 2. Mods are expensive for little gain. Best all around practical sports car on the market.

On the other hand the Z will get better mpg.Not by much:

MPG: Depends on what you compare it to...

Car - city - highway
Viper - 12 - 20
M3 - 16 - 24
Mustang GT - 17 - 25
RX-8 - 18 - 25
G35 - 18 - 25
350Z - 19 - 25
S2000 - 20 - 26

Not by much:

In real world driving the difference is even greater.

For one, the Civic SI is a better car than the RSX Type S, anyone that buys an RSX right now is most likely just a badge whore. Also, it seems the GTI should be on your friend's listy, it's a fun little car, has a great interior, takes well to mods, is very practicle, and has the convenience of a hatch.

That's a good call on the GTI, Ike.

A nice combo of practicality and sportiness, without the need for additional attention like the 8. A good car for a younger driver (I'm assuming the original poster's friend is a young person).

In real world driving the difference is even greater.And that is based on which survey? ________________

You might want to google: Users Reviews and add your car model - you can get the good and the bad on just about any recent car - some of these are highly educational For example these are some of the postings i found when I was shopping for a Corvette:

Nice looking car but it lacks performance and sporty feelings like that of Porsche Carrera GT and Lamborghini Murcielago


A good car, but I wish I would of bought something else. GM quality is still bad after all these years. Loud brakes, battery problems, computer problems...the list goes on.

Pros: fast sports car, slick look, great all american muscle.
Cons: This car has absolutely no Luxury
why they make a such nice car with the sooooo cheap looking center dash, i think its about time to fire those guys are responsible for the corvette's dashboard design

Pros: Great power
Cons: TERRIBLE BRAKES!

Pros: Decent fuel economy, seats semi-comfortable, decent performance for value
Cons: Ride is EXTREMELY HARSH, Brakes are decent, but will fade under hard braking, interior is bland.
While the Z06 is a definite bang for buck drag strip/stop light winner, it will not handle a turn any more than 35 degrees while flat out without lifting and holding your breath.
Pros: Smooth lookin
Cons: Rough ride

Try it for your choices before you make your buy.

yep my friend will def. get a manual car as his next car :) i mean a sports car has to have 3 pedals, at least to me it does ;)

he IS leaning more towards the rx8 for now.....but we'll see. just gotta teach him the basic first so he can test drive the car by himself. but thanks for all ur opinions. i will combine ur opinion with folks on the 350z board and make a final conclusion.

:)

And that is based on which survey? ________________

Road and Track
Long Term average mileage:

RX-8: 17mpg
350Z: 21mpg

Consumer report also posted numbers with similar spreads. I don't have it in front of me.

I'm a former RX-8 owner, current owner of a 350Z Roadster. Trust me, the EPA estimates are WAAY off concerning the 8's gas mileage. I drive 25 miles each way to work, all interstate save for about 2 miles. I averaged 18 mpg in the 8. In my Z, I average 24 mpg. Same route, vastly different gas mileage results. That's one of the biggest reasons I chose not to buy another RX-8. I loved the car, but there's really no excuse for the car's mileage to be that poor. I think, though, that if the 8 came in convertible form, I'd have bought another one.

You can read about what happened to my RX-8 here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=60519&page=1&pp=15

Here's the picture missing from the first post in that thread:
http://home.nc.rr.com/doomcue/images/Cars/myrx8.jpg
-djb

I'm a former RX-8 owner, current owner of a 350Z Roadster. Trust me, the EPA estimates are WAAY off concerning the 8's gas mileage. I drive 25 miles each way to work, all interstate save for about 2 miles. I averaged 18 mpg in the 8. In my Z, I average 24 mpg. Same route, vastly different gas mileage results. That's one of the biggest reasons I chose not to buy another RX-8. I loved the car, but there's really no excuse for the car's mileage to be that poor. I think, though, that if the 8 came in convertible form, I'd have bought another one.
-djb
Uh, you mean being a rotary isn't a good enough excuse?

thanks guys.

the new Si is a good car, but my friend doesnt like the way it looks :(

also the s2000 is out because it's a convertible and my friend prefers a hardtop over his head.

yea it seems the rx8 should be the logical choice in this comparison....i guess the biggest things we're worried about are the reliability with the engine.....with our budget an 05 is out of reach, and it seems the 05 is the problem-free model...

my friend doesn't drive stick, and if the automatic rx8 was close to the power of the manual then we'd go test drive the automatic in a heartbeat....but the manual has over 40hp+ so the automatic won't do the manual justice...guess i'll just have to teach my friend how to operate manual first..

Here you go... an 05 RX-8 GT in your friend's budget range. Looking to sell soon and I am in So Cal too.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=90454

Since your friend needs a 4 seater and doesn't drive a manual, I think the GTI is the right one

OK, I'll chime in since I own an RSX type S and am buying an RX8...

The RSX is a pretty decent car...good mileage (about 26 avg, can get over 30 if I really try), OK power for a N/A FWD car. The K20 is a thing of beauty (if you're into pistons). The thing I can't get past is the handling.

I've had people tell me that it handles well for a FWD car, but to me... :thumbsdow I may as well be driving my wife's Altima - there's no difference to me.

All in all, the RX8 does not have phenomenal power...we all know that. It IS however, a SPORTS car. The RSX (even my type S) is a tarted-up civic. It scoots, but it don't weave like a sports car should.

The deciding factor was the suicide doors...makes getting the kidlet out of the back a little easier without resorting to a sedan.

Road and Track
Long Term average mileage:

RX-8: 17mpg
350Z: 21mpg

Consumer report also posted numbers with similar spreads. I don't have it in front of me.A long term test on one car is not a representative survey. Until such time as someone develops a controlled, standardized test used across the industry that beats EPA's estimates, that will remain the most reliable set of numbers for comparison across makes.

I'm a former RX-8 owner, current owner of a 350Z Roadster. Trust me, the EPA estimates are WAAY off concerning the 8's gas mileage. I drive 25 miles each way to work, all interstate save for about 2 miles. I averaged 18 mpg in the 8. In my Z, I average 24 mpg. Same route, vastly different gas mileage results. That's one of the biggest reasons I chose not to buy another RX-8. I loved the car, but there's really no excuse for the car's mileage to be that poor. I think, though, that if the 8 came in convertible form, I'd have bought another one.

You can read about what happened to my RX-8 here: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=60519&page=1&pp=15

Here's the picture missing from the first post in that thread:
http://home.nc.rr.com/doomcue/images/Cars/myrx8.jpg
-djb

:wavey: saw ur post at 350z board. sorry about ur 8 :(

also thanks to the rsx guy, ur opinion means a lot for this subject.

as to the guy sellin the 8, i've already posted on ur thread and PMed u :)

i've already stated a couple of times that my friend will get a manual car as his next car. GTI's a nice car, but just not for my friend, regardless of how many pedals it has. thanks for the suggestion though.

again thanks for all the inputs.

Uh, you mean being a rotary isn't a good enough excuse?What difference does that make? Poor gas mileage is poor gas mileage, whether it's a piston engine, a two-stroke engine, a rotary, a SUV, a luxury sedan, or a wannabe sports car. 18 mpg is the EPA's estimate for the 8 in CITY driving. I was driving all interstate and getting that. That's pathetic highway gas mileage for a car.

-djb

A long term test on one car is not a representative survey. Until such time as someone develops a controlled, standardized test used across the industry that beats EPA's estimates, that will remain the most reliable set of numbers for comparison across makes.


You actually believe the RX-8 comes close to the EPA estimates:rollingla

The RX-8 is one of the worst cars out there if not the worst car to comply with EPA standards. I listed you one survey because I had the numbers handy, Car & Driver, Consumer Reports also stated similar results. This board is loaded with people confirming this. A guy a couple of posts up this thread confirmed even a wider gap between the Z and the 8 with actual real world driving. Yet the EPA test, a test the government is revamping because of its inaccurate results is your only argument to counter this. You do also realize that the cars tested by the EPA can be vehicles, which have completely different fuel management programs, it is a loophole in the system. Please stop, this is getting embarrassing.

Another Pro for the 8.
It's not a dime a dozen like 350z's or mustangs or Evo's or STI's

8 cons.
Gas mileage is AWFUL! As my brother said though, "Uh, it is a sports car right?" So not a real con.

I have never had so many people say, nice car. Stare at the car, speed up to see the car(I don't drive slow either.) A mini-van full of teenagers pulled up next to me to see that car doing 85. I know exactly how many 8's are in my town. Z's I lose count at the supermarket :P

I am intrigued by the convertible Z though. Silver is very purty.

If you want TORQUE get the Evo or A mustang. The Z's or the 8's never getting a 11 second 1/4 mile without a 3 rotor engine. That warning about tires costing more then oil must be taken to heart unless you don't mind dropping $900 a year on tires if not more.

You actually believe the RX-8 comes close to the EPA estimates:rollingla :slap: Of course not. NO car matches the EPA estimates across the board. Mine comes within 1 mpg of them, others get less, others get more. Every car I've owned got lower than the EPA figures. The point you're missing is not the number within one make, but the comparison across makes. Since EPA uses controlled conditions, the relative accuracy across makes is the same. If they say the RX-8 gets 18mpg and the Toyota Doodah gets 28mpg, you can pretty well bet you're going to get 10 mpg less than the Toyota.

The RX-8 is one of the worst cars out there if not the worst car to comply with EPA standards. 1 mpg? Oh, please... :rolleyes:

I listed you one survey because I had the numbers handy, Car & Driver, Consumer Reports also stated similar results. 1) The Car & Driver "survey" I saw was based on one of each car. 2) That RX-8 was within .5 mpg of EPA's city driving figure. 3) Car & Driver didn't say what kind of driving they were doing. 4) It's unlikely that whoever is testing the cars is the same person, driving the same routes, on the same day, under exactly the same conditions. Again, the key concept here is controlled conditions.

This board is loaded with people confirming this. A guy a couple of posts up this thread confirmed even a wider gap between the Z and the 8 with actual real world driving. "A guy" got xxx mileage. That too is not a representative survey. This board has a very few people who complain about their mpg, and many more who do not.

Yet the EPA test, a test the government is revamping because of its inaccurate results is your only argument to counter this. You do also realize that the cars tested by the EPA can be vehicles, which have completely different fuel management programs, it is a loophole in the system. Please stop, this is getting embarrassing. Indeed. That some folks prefer rumors to a controlled study is a bit puzzling.
:Wconfused

You may get 1 mile less then EPA city but I get 6 to 7 less. There is overwhelming documented evidence by both users and the press that the RX gets far worse then the EPA states. Is this a controlled study, no but based on the fact that other cars being reported on in similar boards and trade journals do not share this label I feel pretty confident in my interpretation.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=13404

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=13404

I think most people here would rather remove their eyes with a spork than actually have to read that.

I still can't decide where to cast my vote on this one.... hrm...

I honestly think the GTI is the best choice for your friend.

its funny how people compare cars by their 1/4 mile times.

as for the point of the thread- i agree with ike sort of- change the choices.

You may get 1 mile less then EPA city but I get 6 to 7 less. There is overwhelming documented evidence by both users and the press that the RX gets far worse then the EPA states. Is this a controlled study, no but based on the fact that other cars being reported on in similar boards and trade journals do not share this label I feel pretty confident in my interpretation.That you get 6 or 7 less than you should is a good reason to raise holy hell with the dealer and MNA. (I wonder if lemon laws apply?) But I've seen nothing on this board or anyplace else that suggests that RX-8 owners on the average are getting 6 or 7 less than the EPA estimate. The two polls I saw at this site concerning mileage showed an average of 19 mpg (for mixed driving, I assume) and 16 mpg for city-only driving.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=75555
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=82005

Sure, you have a legitimate beef with Mazda about your 8. But the numbers we have show that on the average, most of us are getting about what we should expect.

I think most people here would rather remove their eyes with a spork than actually have to read that.
:rollingla

Since my brother owned an 03 RSX Type-S, I can tell you, you will regret not getting the 8. Someone mentioned earlier that Acura had been having a lot of transmission problems, this is true. There are numerous complaints from many 02 and some 03 RSX-S owners about the defected transmission. But Acura still won't recognize it as a real problem and will not fix it under warranty. If your friend is looking at a new type s, I know some kid who has one and it doesn't seem to be causing tranny problems like some of the older models did. But when you really want to step on it and see it go, you will be disappointed. That is, if you have already test driven an 8 or Z, or any other higher powered car. The gas mileage is very good, but when I drove that car I would have to floor it for it to seem like I was going anywhere. It does have a HUGE aftermarket. The reliability of a Honda. The handling can be beefed up with some simple suspension mods. But it will never be anything close to the 8. It just does not have the smoothness or class of it. Not to mention lack of power. The 1/4 times may be only a half second slower or whatever, but when you get in an 8 after a type s, you will not want to go back. It was cool because when I used to think my 8 was too slow, or it felt like that stupid second gear was stiff as a board, I would drive the type s, then get back in the 8, and it was amazing how all of a sudden it was so quick and smooth.

What difference does that make? Poor gas mileage is poor gas mileage, whether it's a piston engine, a two-stroke engine, a rotary, a SUV, a luxury sedan, or a wannabe sports car. 18 mpg is the EPA's estimate for the 8 in CITY driving. I was driving all interstate and getting that. That's pathetic highway gas mileage for a car.

-djb
:iamwithst

The RX-8 is a wonderful car; we haven't had a moment's problem with it in over a year. That said, had we known how gruesome the mileage was going to be, we would have bought a different car. I agree that there is no excuse for mileage like we get on our RX-8. My wife commutes about 10 miles to work. Her previous ride was our Honda Odyssey minivan, in which she averaged about 19mpg for that commute. On the RX-8, she gets about 15mpg on the identical commute. On a worse commute, I get 23-25mpg in my S2000.

That you get 6 or 7 less than you should is a good reason to raise holy hell with the dealer and MNA. (I wonder if lemon laws apply?) But I've seen nothing on this board or anyplace else that suggests that RX-8 owners on the average are getting 6 or 7 less than the EPA estimate. The two polls I saw at this site concerning mileage showed an average of 19 mpg (for mixed driving, I assume) and 16 mpg for city-only driving.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=75555
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=82005

Sure, you have a legitimate beef with Mazda about your 8. But the numbers we have show that on the average, most of us are getting about what we should expect.

I agree that my car is running sub standard but your city mileage is in error. You are basing it on a poll that I created, the problem is I cut the low mileage off at 13 when in reality I know that one responder has reported as low as 9mpg and others in the 10 to 11 range, myself would have been 11mpg. This would undoubtedly drag down the average further. At the same time at the high end I know of at least one person who answered 19mpg before she even owned a RX-8. I am also very suspect of the 19mpg reports.

^haha

The RSX Type S has a great engine. Transmission is not the best. I have had issues with the 3rd gear popping out occasionally. High RPM shifts from 1 to 2 were sometimes very rough. Never took the car in though. Mine was an 03. I had the revo short shifter and that made a few things better.

My buddy has an 02 and he is having a ton of problems with the tranny. His dealer changed 4 or the 6 gears and the syncros. He is still having some issues. It is true that Acura is not acknowledging the problems and issuing a recall. They just issued a TSB to the dealers. Check out all those posts on clubrsx.com. I think 06s are having some issues too. Might be a design issue.

The RSX Type S has a great engine. Transmission is not the best. I have had issues with the 3rd gear popping out occasionally. High RPM shifts from 1 to 2 were sometimes very rough. Never took the car in though. Mine was an 03. I had the revo short shifter and that made a few things better.

My buddy has an 02 and he is having a ton of problems with the tranny. His dealer changed 4 or the 6 gears and the syncros. He is still having some issues. It is true that Acura is not acknowledging the problems and issuing a recall. They just issued a TSB to the dealers. Check out all those posts on clubrsx.com. I think 06s are having some issues too. Might be a design issue.

Everything you said is exactly the same issues he had. Third gear would pop out occasionally. First to second grinds a lot especially under heavy acceleration. Oh, and also, if you put it in reverse without being completly stopped, even if the clutch is in, you get grind. Sometimes first is the same way. The good thing about the engine is, no tune ups required until 110,000 miles. He had the B&M short throw shifter. But I haven't heard a lot on the newer models, but if you are like the rsx, go to clubrsx.com and look for the common problems.

Before I picked up the 8 I really thought long and hard about, which car I wanted to get. I considered the following:

RX8 - Great Styling! Great Handling! Smooth & Quick!

MazdaSpeed 6 - Previously owned a 6 so needed a change! HEAVY!

Evo - Styling is just ugly! FAST! Amazing Handling!

STI - Styling got much worse with new grill this year! Fast! Good Handling!

350Z - Was my 2nd choice but after driving around a few days thinking about it noticed they are everywhere. I can't drive somewhere without passing one. I don't want a car that everyone has!

Well needless the say, the RX8 came out in front for the win!

After owning the 8 for almost 3 months I am very happy! The car is much quicker then I originally thought in my head and I definitely hold my own out there on the street. Then bring it to a Road Course and you dominate...except if your going against a Mini...heh. The gas mileage sucks but thats the price your going to pay to have a exoctic Rotary! I don't mind checking the oil and adding it...only thing I dislike is the fact you can't shut the car off when its not warmed up...but what you gonna do.

If i had to do it all over again...I would get the RX8 over and over again!

Everything you said is exactly the same issues he had. Third gear would pop out occasionally. First to second grinds a lot especially under heavy acceleration. Oh, and also, if you put it in reverse without being completly stopped, even if the clutch is in, you get grind. Sometimes first is the same way. The good thing about the engine is, no tune ups required until 110,000 miles. He had the B&M short throw shifter. But I haven't heard a lot on the newer models, but if you are like the rsx, go to clubrsx.com and look for the common problems.

This reminds me of the reverse gear issues. Occasionally the shifter used to get stuck while putting it in reverse. even when the clutch was completely depressed.

Wow, so much for honda reliability...

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=127026

Over 100 users having the same issues just in the first 24 hours the thread was posted. It was dated back in dec of 03 and if you look on the last page you will see them still complaining about the same exact thing today, and acura still will not do anything about it.

I would never get the RSX...

wow i guess the rsx's tranny is somethin to stay far away from....:(

yea for now he's leaning toward the rx8 due to the fact that he wants a car that's nimble and tossable, as well as comfy and practical. plus he adores the rx8's styling.... the z33 handles well, but u gotta man handle that thing to move it, compared to the rx8 that is. it is a very nimble for its size and weight, dont get me wrong.

another possiblity is that my friend might get a very cheap car to learn his basic from, such as not redlining a car when the engine's cold, and learning how to operate a manual tranny effectively, and learn about how engine speed vs. gearing work etc....also just general maintenance stuff.

so now we're thinkin of gettin a 96-97 miata for about 6g's, then at the end of summer or year sell that car and get the rx8 he really wants.....:)

thanks for all the inputs again.

I have a JDM Rx-8 and its never missed a beat, can't flood it if I try! Its build number is 234 so early production. You also have to remember that only in America can you buy a car before its been built. :hahano:


It's not even the entire 2004 model lineup, it's mostly with the cars that have a build date from 2003. They retooled the assembly on the fly, so there is no magic change that happened from 2004 to 2005 models.

Wow, so much for honda reliability...

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=127026

Over 100 users having the same issues just in the first 24 hours the thread was posted. It was dated back in dec of 03 and if you look on the last page you will see them still complaining about the same exact thing today, and acura still will not do anything about it.

I would never get the RSX...Wow. In that case I don't mind adding a little oil now and then. :SHOCKED:

First of all, your friend sounds like a pretty smart shopper. You can get a fairly decent 99 Miata for around 7k. Plus it's a convertible, which would be awesome in SoCal. I am a reformed Miata owner. I moved up to the 8 pretty much for the power, but I also liked having a roof in chilly Colorado. Also I do a lot of autocrossing, and you can't beat the 8 for the money on an autocross course. There really is nothing that comes close aside from the STi/Evos that are in the same price range. Needless to say I love my 8. I get 20-22 Mpg in mixed driving--it's very consistent. The thing I don't like is that I get about 21 on long road trips, where I should get more like 25. All of my cars have gotten the EPA estimates within about half a gallon, except the highway mileage on this car. I don't think it is very efficient at 80mph. It would probably get closer to 25 at 65mph.

There's so many great choices for him. If he would like to get a new cheaper car, he might like a Honda Fit. Not as sexy as some of the others, but it's basically a FWD Miata. Drive the hell out of it and never get a ticket--plus it will be easy to mod. VWs are nice cars but very problem-prone. I drove a 350Z, and it's got a ton of power but no backseat, small trunk and rides like a buckboard. It's a little faster at the track and a little slower on the autocross course. They have some alignment issues as well. The MX-5 is a great car too, he might want to drive it and see what he likes better. They get 25-30mpg, which is a huge selling point now.

I have a JDM Rx-8 and its never missed a beat, can't flood it if I try! Its build number is 234 so early production. You also have to remember that only in America can you buy a car before its been built. :hahano:


I have same as you & no flooding even after shuting off cold numerous times.

where in NZ are you rotorman ?

yea the miata will be a good entry level car that offers excellent handling capabilities. only thing is he doenst' really like convertibles.....i guess i'll take him around in my s2k a couple more times to change his mind ;)

s2k is another auto-x dominator in rx8's price range btw.

i know miata's are one of the most reliable cars that Mazda has ever produced....but if maintained well, how reliable are they at 100,000-150,000 miles? we'll be lookin at miata's from 96-99 (under 6g's), is there any common problems we should look out for at those mileage?

my old accord sedan had 150,000, and i brought that car to hell and back and it just keeps running. my mkII mr2 turbo on the other hand with 150,000 and was a nightmare (though worth it :D)

forum.miata.net Is the best automotive forum in the world, bar none. Tons of information there.

It depends on what your friend wants to do. I'd say drive a 97 and a 99 and maybe an 01 to compare them. The 2001 is definitely the most comfortable and has the nicest seats and interior. You don't notice the difference until you start really looking at them closely.

The major problems with Miatas are the following: 2001-2003 had clutch problems. I had two replaced before Mazda fixed the issue. Just watch out for any hint of shudder. Otherwise figure $700 for a new clutch. You might be able to get Mazda to help pay for it if it crops up shortly after buying the car, but I don't know about this. Usually people had problems before 15k miles.

1999s had some problems with a #4 engine bearing. This was only a problem on some cars and was found by about 70k miles I believe. LOTS of info on this at miata.net.

1990s had an issue with the crank nose that can be fixed in about 3 hours while you do a timing belt.

One other great thing about the Miata if he's interested.. They are great cars to work on. Very simple, particularly the early models. He might want to look at a 1.6 liter, since many think those are the most fun of all. All Miatas are reliable and should run up beyond 200,000 with little trouble. Like any used car they will have issues, but I think they're even better than a civic in terms of reliability.

forum.miata.net Is the best automotive forum in the world, bar none. Tons of information there.

It depends on what your friend wants to do. I'd say drive a 97 and a 99 and maybe an 01 to compare them. The 2001 is definitely the most comfortable and has the nicest seats and interior. You don't notice the difference until you start really looking at them closely.

The major problems with Miatas are the following: 2001-2003 had clutch problems. I had two replaced before Mazda fixed the issue. Just watch out for any hint of shudder. Otherwise figure $700 for a new clutch. You might be able to get Mazda to help pay for it if it crops up shortly after buying the car, but I don't know about this. Usually people had problems before 15k miles.

1999s had some problems with a #4 engine bearing. This was only a problem on some cars and was found by about 70k miles I believe. LOTS of info on this at miata.net.

1990s had an issue with the crank nose that can be fixed in about 3 hours while you do a timing belt.

One other great thing about the Miata if he's interested.. They are great cars to work on. Very simple, particularly the early models. He might want to look at a 1.6 liter, since many think those are the most fun of all. All Miatas are reliable and should run up beyond 200,000 with little trouble. Like any used car they will have issues, but I think they're even better than a civic in terms of reliability.

wow thanks for the info, very helpful and very concise :)

we got back from test driving an rx8 manual. i drove it with him in the passenger and the salesman in the back. basically my friend LOVED the 8, except it's a bit cramped inside, esp. the a-pillar. but i was takin winding on-ramps at mind-bending speeds, and he seemed to really like it ;)

i didnt redline the car cuz it only has 47 miles on it, plus the traffic was pretty heavy around the dealership. however on the highway i had a chance to drop to 3rd gear and went from 4500 to 7000 rpm (i know i ended at the start of the power band), but my friend was already impressed with the acceleration :)

the salesman said rotaries dont require break-in...is that true? if it is can someone back it up with technical information of how that's possible? or do Mazda just break in every renesis before they see the market?

just gotta test drive a Z and make up our minds now....we might be able to skip the miata after all :D this test drive basically sold the 8 to my friend, and he wasn't even the one driving lol

lol, it needs to broken in just like any other engine.

8 > Z

My rx8 was a demo and had 500 miles on it when I picked it up (basically broken in.) Obviously people redlined the shit out of it while testing it, but I have no complaints. Im getting +20 mpg in city driving and she drinks a quart of oil around every 2.5k-3k miles.

When I first drove the 8 it seemed a little cramped to me too. After owning it for a short time I realized that came from having everything at my fingertips. It's not a car with a driver space in it. It's a driver with a car wrapped around it. And it didn't feel cramped after the first day or two.

Whenever I drive our RX-8, I'm always surprised at how much more room there is than in my S2000 (not even including the back seat).

more room than s2k? the driver seat? i have an ap1....and i think it's more spacious. more headroom anyways in the s2k. however the 8 is wider on the inside.

this is talkin about the front only.

I'm bored. So I'm going to write my experience of the RX-8 for the first time on this site since joining and you can tell your friend about it and I can sleep soundly knowing I made a difference!!

It's a fantastic car...
It's been really reliable. I've had no problems and there's no doubt that it will last me a lifetime.

It's also practical. 4 seats was something I needed and there's really nothing out there other than the G35 that I liked. But 2 problems with the G35... 1) they wouldn't move on the price 2) couldn't really fit anyone in the back without them hitting their head.

It's noticeable. With the streets full of 350Z and RSX, an RX-8 is kind of rare to see. Especially one with a Mazdaspeed kit.

It's cheap. Mazda was the only company that would bring down the price and with 0% finance rate. It was only a few thousand (cad) more than a RSX-S. You can't do that with a BMW or an Infiniti.

It's RWD. I'll leave the FWD to sedans and minivans.

It's a relatively good performer. Granted its a bit slow on acceleration, but you're driving the speed limit (most of the time anyway)! Road feel is excellent and cornering is fun. I'm averaging 19-20mpg. Not too shabby.

It's safe. Probably one of the best winter sports car I've driven. Its lack of torque makes it an ideal RWD winter car and is easily manageable and fun to drive in the snow. Of course you don't get snow in CA!

I'm very happy with this car. The attention I get is unbelievable and I just recommend this car to anyone who wants a blend of practicality and performance and fun. Alright! I've paid my dues to this forum! Good luck...

thanks slowlude :)

some things came up, and now i'm tryin my best to help my friend get his 8...it not he'll just have to get a miata for now, and get the 8 when he's ready...

i'm in Auckland Brettus.. Yeah ive accidently shut it off cold a few times
, no problems.

ive always found rotaries really reliable engines

I have same as you & no flooding even after shuting off cold numerous times.

where in NZ are you rotorman ?

It's win win with either the RX 8 or 350Z, just a matter of personal choice. As long as you don't own a GTO, Mustang, or Crossfire your cool.

Has everyone in here forgotten the RSX-s Pwns all?

It is the best car . . . . . . ever.

i'm guessing after 2 years, he probably already made his choice

I actually read through the 350z boards responses a bit...I swear, they are almost as bad as Mustang owners.. "STRAAIIIGGHHHTTT LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!"

wow talk about reviving a dead thread.

what happened was my friend ended up getting an mr2 turbo since his budget didn't allow him something more expensive, and the miata just didn't have enough oomph. yeah it was a poor choice as he had the crappiest luck with that car and almost everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong with that car. he did have a ton of fun in that car though...with bolt-ons he destroyed our friend's mazdaspeed 3. i was pleasantly surprised.

then he sold the mr2 and got an 06 STi, went stage 2 on that. now he has a Legacy GT, automatic :(. not sure if he'll ever come back to the rx8 i think he's grown into an old man as he likes driving comfortable cars with 2 pedals now lol