Spoke to Mazda as to why the high power rx8 had only 1 oil cooler , as usual the answer had to be found after waiting for a while , i was told that because of different power outputs in Australia and emission ,and temperature differences to the US cars we only needed 1 oil cooler.

IMO this answer is a lot of bull shit , id be more inclined to say that its purely a cost saving measure on Mazda's behalf , I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US and the temperature here in Australia .

MAZDA SHOULD NOT TREAT ALL ITS CUSTOMERS AS WOOD DUCKS.

So if you are serious about doing any racing in your rx8 you'd better look at the oil cooler , and put in a second one as a safeguard .

Others should ring Mazda ,and see what other B/S excuse they give others ????

To me it seems odd that a 250 hp car needs 2 oil coolers but a 231 hp car needs only 1 oil cooler .

250 HP ,being US high power spec 2 OIL COOLERS .

231hp, being OZ high power spec with only 1 oil cooler i want to know WHY ??????????

As donald c said maybe we have been conned .

The oil cooler mystery deepens , i have found out that the high spec model in UK also has 2 oil coolers , so why only 1 in the so called high power model in australia .

From my source within mazda i have found out that the cost of an oil cooler is $885 dollars plus cost of fitting , so you possible wont see much change from $ 1, 500 dollars .

Most likely here lies the true reason why the OZ cars only get 1 oil cooler COST COST COST and nothing else but COST , UNLESS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE LOWER POWERED OUTPUT ENGINE , IN THE GUISE OF THE HIGH POWER , why i say this is because only the low power car only gets the 1 oil cooler.

MAZDA WE WANT SOME REAL ANSWERS AND SOON .

Originally posted by Lock & Load
have found out that the high spec model in UK also has 2 oil coolers

You found this out how?

By asking us, and we dont know yet.

No ones seen an official Eurp spec Hi-Power yet, it may turn up with just 1 oil cooler.

My contact at mazda was tryng to find the discrepency with the OZ oil cooler , he veryfied that both the US and the UK market are getting the 2 oil coolers in the high spec car , and he then gave me the OZ pricing of a oil cooler .

Not good Mazda, not good at all!!!:mad: :mad:

I am emailing Mazda about this thread!! Not happy at all!! :mad:

Originally posted by Lock & Load
I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US

Did the U.S. pickup 2 states that I don't know about? :)

Don't worry, many "Americans" make the same mistake as well and they live here! :eek:

Originally posted by medcina


Did the U.S. pickup 2 states that I don't know about? :)

Don't worry, many "Americans" make the same mistake as well and they live here! :eek:

Well your rocky aircraft carrier 20 miles of the coast of France must count as the 51st.

I'd like to add my views on this.

Whilst it would be inconvenient to have to go through a warranty process if something failed, at least you have the protection offered by the warranty. Mazda is obvioulsy prepared to take on that "extra risk", or have deemed it unnecessary for here.

If you are going to do track work then fit an extra one yourself. I don't see the need for the $1500 job. I recently fitted a supplementary oil cooler to my SS purely for track work. The cooler was $95 dollars from Paul Wheel radiators, very high quality. And 2 metres of hose was $25. Throw in some more $ for some high pressure fittings if you like.

http://users.tpg.com.au/adslnt5c/marko/images/Dscn0471.jpg

http://users.tpg.com.au/adslnt5c/marko/images/Dscn0476.jpg

http://users.tpg.com.au/adslnt5c/marko/images/Dscn0482.jpg

Oil cooler
$95
PWRO/C4CYL 280x110x19 (3/8Barb) Trans Cooler

PWR Performance Products (KJ Thermal Products)
(07) 5598 1499
They have heaps of stock sizes, and also custom make them. Very high quality workmanship, intended for motorsport applications. They were quite happy to even send me Autocad drawings via email so I could ensure I chose the correct product. Units with threaded fittings are available as well.

Hydraulic Hose
$25.28
A606 Push ON 3/8 400PSI Hydraulic Hose (2 meters)

Industrial Hydraulics
(07) 3854 1232


BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:

"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"

Cheers,
Hymee.

Originally posted by Hymee
BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:

"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"Interesting, I don't recall seeing any mention of the "full off" DSC setting in the US brochure. Could one of you guys scan a copy of the Oz brochure and post it somewhere or email the scans to me and I'll host them? (PM for my email address.)

Thanks,
Jon
ex-Melbournite

Originally posted by eccles
Interesting, I don't recall seeing any mention of the "full off" DSC setting in the US brochure. Could one of you guys scan a copy of the Oz brochure and post it somewhere or email the scans to me and I'll host them? (PM for my email address.)

Thanks,
Jon
ex-Melbournite

That's the hold it down for 5 seconds to totally disable it setting. They neglect to mention it in the manual.

Here you go:

http://www.ssute.com/ls1/drift.jpg

Cheers,
Hymee.

Cool, thanks. :)

Would it be too much to ask you to scan the rest of the brochure?

On the DSC fully off --the manual states that if you hold the button down for more than one second, the DSC interprets this as a fault in the button.

See the bottom of the note on page 5-23 of the US owners manual and I quote:


Leaving the TCS/DSC on will
provide the best stability. When the
TCS/DSC is off, the TCS/DSC does
not activate but the brake LSD
function remains.

• If the DSC OFF switch is pressed
and held for a second or more, the
TCS/DSC system may become
inoperative due to the system
detecting switch trouble. If the
TCS/DSC system becomes
inoperative, the TCS/DSC and the
DSC OFF indicator lights
illuminate simultaneously. In this
case, turn off the engine and restart
it to restore the TCS/DSC.

It's not good that this information is inaccurate.

(Definition of an owners manual: Something that gets read cover to cover when you're anxiously waiting to get your car.)

The first thing for me to make clear on this reply is I am not a technical expert but here is my theory.

All of the other regions that have dual oil coolers have areas with minimum temperatures much lower than we experience in Australia. I have also noticed that they are using a thinner grade of oil than we are. Typically grade of 5- 30. No doubt they need this thin oil for the super low temperature cold starts they need to do. Once the engine has reached normal operating temperature the oil that is circulating in it is a thinner grade than we use here. (I checked out what grade the dealer put in at my 1000klm service and it was 15-40) Thinner grade oils are going to be more prone to damage from high temperatures hence those markets that need to use thinner oils due to their low temperatures get two oil coolers to protect that type of oil.

So yes Mazda have cut costs and I am not defending that but maybe this is why they have made this move.

RX8-SMOOTH your reply seems logicall , however that does not give mazda the rigth to brag about the rx8 sporting performance etc and then sneak in the 1 oil cooler with out letting the c
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .

Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.

Originally posted by Lock & Load
RX8-SMOOTH your reply seems logicall , however that does not give mazda the rigth to brag about the rx8 sporting performance etc and then sneak in the 1 oil cooler with out letting the c
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .

Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.

I agree.

Communication is EVERYTHING

I have a JDM Type S (ie the 250ps version) and it has one oil cooler on the left side. So far, engine temperatures have not been a problem, including while being stuck in traffic jams. No high speed running yet, as I'm still running in the car. :)

I'd have to agree with rx8 - smooth's opinion, but I'm no mechanical expert.

Also disappointed that mazda has not come up with an accurate explanation. They have a lot to learn about participating with enthusiasts... especially that from a customer relations, satisfaction and sales perspective looking after your biggest supporters is a no brainer.

Too right! They give us a thick book detailing very techinical information about the car and then say nothing when we query them about a certain point.

Donald

You guys have to consider the costs part of this.

Mazda Australia are ripping us off when you consider the cost of the car in Japan & USA.

Australian dollars

RX-8 (Oz) $56,000
RX-8 (Jap) $36,000
RX-8 (USA) $42,000

All for the same car, go figure.!!!

If Mazda Australia have ommitted a 2nd oil-cooler then I bet its to save cost due to the higher pricing of our cars

hi guys

i e-mailed mazda about the oil cooler. here's the reply:

what do you think of that? japanese rx-8s get one oil cooler also.

mike


*** start quote ***

Dear Dr Chin,

This is correct. Japan models also only have one oil cooler.

The reason however has nothing to do with high speed driving as claimed.
European and US models get two because they can experience long periods
(some hours) of stationary or low speed crawling in enormous traffic jams
coupled with very high ambient temperatures (such as the weather in Europe
last week).



Regards

Maria Ramirez
Customer Relations
Mazda Australia


*** end quote ***

Well I suppose I am happy with that response.

How does everyone else feel about that explanation?

Donald

My view... I've now done about 3,000 km in the 8, some of it down at Goulburn at -8 degrees with ice on the car, and lots of it stuck in traffic in the centre of Sydney... I've never seen the temp guage move away from the centre position...

So... I don't think we have a problem.

Originally posted by msydd
My view... I've now done about 3,000 km in the 8, some of it down at Goulburn at -8 degrees with ice on the car, and lots of it stuck in traffic in the centre of Sydney... I've never seen the temp guage move away from the centre position...

So... I don't think we have a problem.

That's because it's not a gauge but an 'idiot light' as has been reported in another thread. It will only move if there's a serious problem.

i think he was referring to water temp and not the oil pressure (which is not a true oil pressure guage).

Donald

Originally posted by donaldc
Well I suppose I am happy with that response.

How does everyone else feel about that explanation?

Donald

I'm OK with it. Having been stuck for 30 minutes trying to go 200m to get off the Periphique in Paris earlier in the year I've learned our traffic is nothing like overseas.

I will be keeping a good eye on the gauges if I'm stuck in slow traffic and its 38 outside.

I Suppose we dont get traffic jams here in OZ , and we dont have variable temperatures either .
What lousy excuse for not providing us with 2 oil coolers , come on mazda iam sure you can come up with a better answer , if the truth is to be told its purely a cost cutting exercise.

Japan also has lots of traffic jams and extremes in weather , but the japanese are too polite to outwardly complain about getting only one oil cooler.

MAZDA i am not buying youre piss weak answer.

hey lock n load, i agree with your sentiments. it was a PR answer. seems more like cost cutting than anything else.

i have spoken with the dealer where i bought my rx-8 and they will ask head office. but i'm not hopeful of getting a real answer. it will be along the lines of the PR answer that was sent to me above.

so which countries did get two oil coolers?

USA and UK only or are there others?

mike

Considering I will be driving my 8 at peak hour down the Monash Freeway in Melbourne every morning which is bumper to bumper traffic jammed, it's not true to say that we don't get jams in Oz.

OK Mazda.

If the length of time spent in hot weather in traffic is the reason for the dual oil coolers in other markets, how come the low-power and automatic models only have 1 oil cooler. I gather any car in a traffic jam would spend most of the time idling and stationary. Why would a high power engine develop more heat than a lower power engine in the same conditions? Surely both types of engine would generate the same amount of heat under those conditions.

I think Mazda Australia will have to come up with a better explanation.

I had a chance to read the sales manual given to Mazda salespeople for selling the RX-8. One key point I noted in the manual said that under no circumstances should salespeople spin lies or bullshit to a potential RX-8 owner as they will know it is bullshit. They note that prospective RX-8 owners will have a high knowledge of all aspects of the RX-8 including technical details. Well, it seems Mazda Australia should take the advice they give out to their sales staff.

Donald

after reading fellow rx-8 owners' response to the email that i received from mazda australia, i wish to now state that i am NOT satisfied with their response. also the news that mazda usa is offering a full refund to rx-8 owners due to the fact that the true power output of the usa spec rx-8 is 177kW not 184kW means that we as owners who supported the launch of this car should press the issue further with mazda australia. i know that specs can change without notice but the reasons given by mazda for not including a second oil cooler is bullshit. It can seem reasonable on face value but doesn't hold up on closer examination. they either come out and say that it was a cost cutting exercise or offer to install another oil cooler (either at reduced cost or free as a gesture of goodwill to owners who preordered.)

does this seem reasonable?

mike

The questions have to be asked though:


Is anyone having overheating problems?
Doesn't the car have a very comprehensive warranty?


Honestly, I don't know why people are getting jacked off about this. Don't forget the rest of the world also reads this forum. Do we wan't to have an impression of disgruntled owners? Nope - think of the consequences down the track.

C'mon guys, these are great cars. I am thrilled to bits by mine. Lets stop the rot until someone actualy has a real problem. Then lets see how Mazda handles it.

I know from personal experience that they treat real problems very seriously. I owned a 1992 Astina SP from new. It was out of warranty in 1997, and a suspension component broke. I had it fixed outside of the dealership (there is a workshop in the family) at my cost. I mentioned the problem to the dealer. The dealer covered my expenses for the repair. The next thing I know, Mazda (Japan) wanted the failed components sent over for analysis. A short time after that, they wanted to verify the the bolts holding the component in place had been replaced at the time of repair. They hadn't, and my dealers service department arranged for the additional work be carried out at no charge to myself. The car was 5 years old and had done 150,000 km.

I can't complain about that. I see no reason to think things have changed.

And one more thing while I'm on my soapbox. Do you think Mazda doesn't read this forum? I am referring mainly to the corporation rather than the dealers. (That thread about the boyfriend who got to take a demo for a caning didn't go unnoticed...) I for one don't want to get a reputation as a bunch of winging prima donas. That isn't going to help anything if I do have a problem.

</soapbox>

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee -- Your comment about Mazda monitoring the forum caught my attention.

I would like to see someone from Mazda get involved with the forum, for it is a lack of good information that is breeding discontent.

I wouldn't have bought my RX-8 if it wasn't for this forum -- reading about other people's experiences and likes and dislikes of the '8 was what gave me enough confidence to lay 60k of cold hard ones down for it.

I'd like to see them take a page from the IT community and get involved with the enthusiasts and contribute to the forum. It's a no brainer:
- they can deal with misinformation quickly before it gets out of hand
- they can let the broader community know that they are interested in people post sale
- they can gather information to improve the product.
- all up, it will help them build sales... I'm sure there are or will be many more stories like mine.

If they're not prepared to do it themselves I'd like to see someone from a dealer step up to the mark and act as an advocate for us here. Why should a dealer do it. If I get three quotes from three dealers and they're about the same then I would buy from the one who contributes here, because I know they care about the product.

Off my soapbox now...

sco

MKTCHIN AND SCO i totally agree with both your threads , its not about whinging but about getting up front answers to real questions and not B/S.from mazda.

I'm off to RX-8 Training I will ask the question why ?

Considering both the US spec and Aus ?NZ spec are both the same power.

I would say that it is cost cutting but I will find out the real answer at dealer training.

It will be interesting to find out more on this. I didn't mean to brand anyone as whingers. But I am cautious about being stereotyped in a negative manner.

I also don't think the "traffic jam" reason makes a lot of sense. What would be needed in that situation is supplemental air to the cooler. Just sitting in traffice isn't going to do a great deal without much air flow. An electric fan would do the trick. Another benefit of the 2nd cooler is that the capacity would be more.

But I'm still not going to worry about it. The car has a good warranty. And I didn't decide to purchase it because it had 2 engine oil coolers! Some of the rotary engines of years past "hid" the engine oil cooler inside the water based cooling system.

Cheers,
Hymee.

hi maestro

can you also check about the problem with the oil sump and oil pressure sensor?

another thread mentioned this problem (tasmanian 6 day drive in this forum)

i took my rx-8 in this morning for the 1000km service and asked the service manager about it and they mentioned that there has been no information or memos about the oil sump and pressure sensor.

i personally haven't had any problem with oil presure light coming on but i haven't driven the car hard yet. i guess it may come up in the next fwe weeks with more agressive driving of the car.

cheers

mike

Hi Guys,

I have had this same problem and got it fixed.

I set up a thread in the technical area of the forum.

It is here

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8149

I hope this helps. There is even a part no there.

Steve

hi guys

i got my rx-8 back from the dealer topday after 1000km look over. i got them to check the oil sensor light issue. they said that only one car has had the problem which needed the replacement part which is only an oil level sensor. it was a rx-8 in queensland. there was no need to change the sump. the service manager said that to call if the issue develops and the part can be ordered and fitted.

interestingly, they had not heard of the issue until i pressed them into called mazda australia. they also had not heard of the mazda usa debarcle on the power quotation.

in 1000km lookover, they mentioned that the ECU was reset. does that mena that i have more power now that the run-in period is finished?

i haven't had the chance to see if it feels any different to when i took the car in.

cheers

mike

I'm already here man and have been for ages.

I work for North Harbour Mazda in Auckland NZ.

I currently drive a 92' FD RX-7 which is my weekend hack / racer and have been involved in organising club events with the RX-8 over this side.

My Previous cars are as follows:

87 FC RX-7 Turbo GTR (JDM)
89 FC RX-7 Turbo
91 FC RX-7 Turbo LM Edition (MazdaSpeed Special)
92 FD RX-7 Type R

Also my old Japanese Student works for Mazda E & D in japan so I do have access to some Japan RE techo's as well.

My email is rian.herrick@northharbour.co.nz



Originally posted by sco
Hymee -- Your comment about Mazda monitoring the forum caught my attention.

I would like to see someone from Mazda get involved with the forum, for it is a lack of good information that is breeding discontent.

I wouldn't have bought my RX-8 if it wasn't for this forum -- reading about other people's experiences and likes and dislikes of the '8 was what gave me enough confidence to lay 60k of cold hard ones down for it.

I'd like to see them take a page from the IT community and get involved with the enthusiasts and contribute to the forum. It's a no brainer:
- they can deal with misinformation quickly before it gets out of hand
- they can let the broader community know that they are interested in people post sale
- they can gather information to improve the product.
- all up, it will help them build sales... I'm sure there are or will be many more stories like mine.

If they're not prepared to do it themselves I'd like to see someone from a dealer step up to the mark and act as an advocate for us here. Why should a dealer do it. If I get three quotes from three dealers and they're about the same then I would buy from the one who contributes here, because I know they care about the product.

Off my soapbox now...

sco

Cheers Maestro... any thoughts on the 1 oil cooler and oil sump?

Oil coolers

I think its cost cutting. We get the same hi spec as you guys.

Mazda didn't really have a answer.

I'll talk to Japan ;D

Sump ????

Is this the lighting fault I'm hearing about on the forum or why the sump is small and need to be checked every 5000 km

It's the oil light issue... from the main forum look like they'll install baffling in the oil sump.

Originally posted by msydd
It's the oil light issue... from the main forum look like they'll install baffling in the oil sump.

Correct... apologies for being vague... I'm interested in knowing if my car will need a fix for the oil light issue so any info on what cars are affected would be useful.

My new "sump" is on order... I was told only the first shipment need to be changed...

I'll try to get any info I can when I get the call to go and get it fixed...

Ours must be sweet I have seen nothing on this from technical bullitins.

Our first shipment though were only released on friday so I guess it probabaly doesn't affect us.

Our must already have the new sump.

Maestro,

Can you find out VINs ranges of vehicles pre/post the change?

Cheers,
Hymee.

You'd be better talking to Mazda Aus.

I don't have access to your cars and also it doesn't look like ours are affected.

Mazda Aus. should supply you with a list if you ask them.

Rian,

Thanks. Will do.

Cheers,
Hymee

i just got a call from ken shepherd about the oil warning light issue. he said that it is not being experienced by all cars and is being treated on a "as need" basis. so no big recall. if it appears, then you have to call the service dept and ask for the part to be replaced. but ken did emphasise that the light did not mean that anything is wrong with the car. it is just the light coming on due to movement of the oil.

i might say it comes on and have it replaced at the 10,000km service. i will sleep better at night. i don't want the warning light coming on if nothing is wrong.

hope it helps.

regards

mike

Originally posted by DMRH
You guys have to consider the costs part of this.

Mazda Australia are ripping us off when you consider the cost of the car in Japan & USA.

Australian dollars

RX-8 (Oz) $56,000
RX-8 (Jap) $36,000
RX-8 (USA) $42,000

All for the same car, go figure.!!!


Got you all beat:
In Canada the list price is $39,995 Canadian.
That is: $28,559 USD or $44,639 Australian Dollars.
This is the 6MT, with the "GT" package.
ALL options except the roof and NAV package.
We get HID lights, leather, auto dimming mirror, 8 speaker BOSE, power seats, metal pedals, floor mats, 18" wheels with 225/45/18 Potenzas, alarm, disable feature, air conditioning, EBS/ABS/traction control, et cetera. Even a block heater for winter.

Originally posted by mktchin
so which countries did get two oil coolers?

USA and UK only or are there others?

mike

Canada does.

Our Pre-production 8 does :P

NZ ones come with a 3 year unlimited km warranty.

And 3-Year / 100,000km Free Servicing Schedule.

JDM, US dodn't get that well US do now :P

Originally posted by Maestro
NZ ones come with a 3 year unlimited km warranty.Yeah, but how far can you drive in 3 years in NZ? I'd think it would be unlikely that many Kiwis would turn more than 50,000km in 36 months. "Unlimited kilometers" is pretty much a marketing spin when the entire country has less than 60,000km of paved roads. :p

That doesn't matter.

I was saying the servicing and warranty will be incorporated into the price.

Ours are $61,996 + ORC

More importantly NZ is the home of the 4 Rotor E-Shaft :D

Originally posted by eccles
Yeah, but how far can you drive in 3 years in NZ? I'd think it would be unlikely that many Kiwis would turn more than 50,000km in 36 months. "Unlimited kilometers" is pretty much a marketing spin when the entire country has less than 60,000km of paved roads. :p

Australia has a lot of roads, you'd probably even add 30% to the figure for driving into and out of all of the giant potholes!!!

So true man I popped two fronts in the rental car last time I was in Oz-Tra-le-a.

Bloody pot hole was huge !!!

We just have sheep to dodge - hehehe :P

Originally posted by Maestro
So true man I popped two fronts in the rental car last time I was in Oz-Tra-le-a.

Bloody pot hole was huge !!!

We just have sheep to dodge - hehehe :P

Dodge - I though they was an attraction. hehehe & stick-poke

Mainly the south island.

Its cold down there they also sell velcro gloves at the local mobil for inpromtue 'Fleecing' missions - hehehe :D