Does the RX-8 has the same flooding isues as the RX-7's has had?
If you shut down an RX-7 when the engine is cold it will get flooded. Is it the same with the RX-8?

It can probably happen - it's moreso a problem on engines with a lot of miles on the clock, so it's really too hard to tell.

Mazda does have a technique in the owner's manual to help alleviate flooding during a cold start for a short move.

I've never found it to be a problem - just don't start the engine cold, move the car to the driveway, and shut it off.

The refinements in the fuel injection system on the 3rd gen RX-7 led to a LOT less flooding than the 2nd gen as far as hard warm starts and the like. I would imagine the same to be true with the RX-8.

Dale

yeah, they pretty much fixed that on the cosmo's and the fd

mike

In what year does the FD not flood?

Mine is a 1993 and it's gotten flooded.

I've never flooded mine and I've probably shut of off 10 times cold when I was diagnosing some coolant problems.

I'm saying the FD is FAR less prone to flooding than the second gen, especially during hot start conditions. The fuel temp sensor and revised ECU help out a LOT.

If you have flooding problems with an FD, something is way wrong - ancient spark plugs, worn engine, etc.

Pretty much any rotary you can flood if you start it bone cold and move it a short distance.

Dale

i've shut mine off only a few times, maybe 3-4 and it has flooded ones when i had it running about 30-60 seconds. With this in mind i'm probably not fair when i say it's a problem, but for me it feels very low budget if it can happen with a new car.

I heard one of the issues with a cold start and shutdown is the chamber has cold fuel left in it. Since the engine is not hot enough to evaporate this small amount of fuel, it gets to the seals and adds to the carbon build-up in the engine. With time, the seals erode if this happens too often.

Did anyone hear the same?

my car flooded two days ago and I still cant get it started. Monday my tire alarm went off so I didnt drive the car. During the day I figured that it was probably the cold that caused the alarm, and that evening started the car (it was warmer) and the tire alarm didnt come on, so I turned off the engine. Next morning car would not start. Tried the ol' floor the gas pedal and even removing the fuel pump fuse. Nothing. Starter turns but doesnt even try to turn the engine over.

Called the dealer. Their advice was tow it in. For a flooded engine???!!??

Any other ideas?

My 8 has 3500 miles on it...

wow
that is terriable
sorry to hear
please keep us posted on end result

3 days of and the engine still will not start. this is so frustrating!!!

I can't believe the gas doesnt evaporate after 24 hours. maybe its another problem, but this is a brand new $30000 car!

Originally posted by miata2rx8
my car flooded two days ago and I still cant get it started. Monday my tire alarm went off so I didnt drive the car. During the day I figured that it was probably the cold that caused the alarm, and that evening started the car (it was warmer) and the tire alarm didnt come on, so I turned off the engine. Next morning car would not start. Tried the ol' floor the gas pedal and even removing the fuel pump fuse. Nothing. Starter turns but doesnt even try to turn the engine over.

Called the dealer. Their advice was tow it in. For a flooded engine???!!??

Any other ideas?

My 8 has 3500 miles on it...

Had this happen in my 7 once. It was just like a complete loss of compression.

You could try pulling the plugs and turn the engine over a few times - it'll throw some excess gas out the plug holes - keep towels around the plug ports to catch the gas.

The plugs could be wet too. If you try removing the plugs and drying them and cranking out the gas, and it still doesn't turn over once you replace the plugs, you may need to squirt a few CCs of ATF into the plug holes. It'll smoke like there's no tomorrow for about 10 minutes, but it should start. BTW, I'm not sure about the 8, but on the 7 the leading and trailing plugs are different. Don't mix them up!

where are the plugs? the engine is so low and far back, I cant make out where they are

BTW, a WEEK and my car is still out.

Originally posted by miata2rx8
BTW, a WEEK and my car is still out.

So take it to the damn dealer so they can figure out the problem.

How do you know it's actually FLOODING?

Maybe it's ignition? Maybe you launched the car 20ft in the air and something broke? Maybe it's a loose wire? Muffler bearings?

Get it into the dealer now, and quit whining. period.

Why does everyone want to do things themselves? Is it for financial reasons or adventure or curiosity? The internet age has encouraged a strange mentality.Everyone's an expert, everyone's a tech. There's nothing wrong with educating oneself and being informed so you don't get taken advantage of, and if you already are skilled in the automotive field with proper equipment and excess time on your hands then cautiously approach some of the repair and service procedures on your car.Some people have a hatred for the dealer(occasionally warranted), I've always said folks should find a shop/dealer they can trust and who prove themselves knowledgeable to take their car to. A good example of the reason for this is the need for the correct equipment and price thereof. How about diagnostic equipment costing in excess of $20,000. That's what the current Mazda dealers are obligated to have. For those of you who insist on doing some of your own work like I do just be cautious and wise.
Now to the flooding deal. I'm not going to explain the causes of it again. The last time I posted my thoughts on this there were smarter people than me who said this was not a problem with modern rotaries(FD) and would not be a problem with the 8. Anyhow as someone else here pointed out Mazda insructed the dealers what they need to do to avoid flooding. Now there's a bulletin released instructing them to install hotter leading plugs (6s instead of 7s)
So in full agreement with syntrix take it to the dealer.

You have free roadside assistance!

My dealer warned me about flooding when I picked the car up. The service manager told me they had to tow an RX-8 in because it flooded.

With my '88 RX-7, it was a constant concern. If the car is cold and you move it, say from the driveway - into the garage... you're in for trouble. The easiest solution is to leave the car running for a few minutes to heat up the plugs.

The RX-7 solutions (if you didn't leave it running) included removing a vacuum hose on the intake manifold and squirting about a 1/4 cup of ATF into it. When you started the car it would smoke (I mean smoke!) for about 3-4 minutes, then all would be well.

Another method (didn't work as well) was to remove the fuse to the fuel injection and crank the car for 30 seconds without touching the gas pedal. Replace the fuse and...

I try to remember to leave the car running a few minutes, just in case. As you can see from those that have experienced it, the frustration hard to explain.

For those rotary newbies out there, this is one quirk that you will have to accept, cuz I believe it's inherent to the technology. HEY, use the roadside assistance!!!

My car had the same problem. I called the roadside assistance number and they arranged a tow to the dealer. They fixed it in about an hour. Now I am very carefull about turning off cold. In fact I was so carefull that I accidentally left it running for 2 hours just to get it warm after I had to move it yesterday - oops.

This morning, while I was sleeping, my mother tried to pull my RX-8 from under the carport because we are remodeling under there and she didn't want to scratch it. Well, she started it fine and was pulling it out when it died. Then, she said it wouldn't start. She woke me up and told me it wouldn't start. I went to give it a whirl and sure enough, it wouldn't start. The starter would just turn without catching. My first thought was it was flooded. I called my Mazda service and I told him what had happened and that I thought it was flooded. He said to put the pedal to the floor and try and start it. That didn't work so I ended up having to have it put on a trailer and taken to the dealership. Turns out it WAS flooded. They had to clean out the injectors... I hope this doesn't turn out to be a persistent problem :( Just wanted to let everyone know about this.

Moral of the story -- "Don't let your mom drive your 8" ;)

She likely stalled it and then flooded the engine trying to restart. Historically the rotary has been somewhat prone do to this -- hence the short trip driving procedures outlined in the owners manual and quick guide.

maybe it wasn't your mom

I never start and then turn my 8 off
I let it run for atleast a full minute or two before turning it off

sorry that sucks man

I pretty much start it up, pull it out of the garage, wait for 20 sec and turn it off to wash it at least a dozen times now... no indication that it was effected at all ever.

...if it was that bad at flooding, I would have had to have it towed into the dealer immediately since I couldn't drive stick :p

wow
2 hours
did you have any gas left

Originally posted by pr0ber
I pretty much start it up, pull it out of the garage, wait for 20 sec and turn it off to wash it at least a dozen times now... no indication that it was effected at all ever.

...if it was that bad at flooding, I would have had to have it towed into the dealer immediately since I couldn't drive stick :p

Same here, I back it out of the garage ,let it idle less than a minute, then shut it down. I never flooded my 82 FB, 88 FC or my 94 FD . I hope to have the same luck (knock on wood) w/ the 8.

I flatbedded the car to the dealer. I appreciate that there is free road side service, but my work schedule does not allow me to take half a day off to take the car into the dealer. Also, I don't see whats wrong with wanting to understand how the car works- what happens if you flood the car in the middle of nowhere?

Hey, I hope I didn't come across as offensive!

By all means, the more knowledge you have the better. Glad the dealer could look at it, and I feel for you on the weekday thing.

My dealer wants the car for 2 days during the weekday just to test for the oil light when in high gears going downhill. We agreed on a Saturday, but it was like pulling teeth with them.

A silly question, enlighten me please.

Let say, I've driven the car for 20min(it should very warm up by then). I'm on my way back home and need to pick up some, let say bread, from a grocery store just 2-3 block away from my apartment. So, I stop by, OFF the engine, in and out of the grocery store with-in a minute or 2, back to the car, TURN the engine up again just to drive 2-3 block to the apartment.

As the car has already warmed up, that short drive would not cause the flooding issue right?

cheers

If its already warmed up - a short stop won't be a problem.

wow
2 hours
did you have any gas left


It only seemed to use about 1 or 2 notches on the gauge - I was shocked. I think I will still get about 18MPG this tank, but most of it was highway (55 - 85MPH) driving.

syntrix,
you are vindicated!

called the dealer today for an update. They said Mazda is flying some engineers in on Thursday to take a look at the car- they are interested in gathering some data. Hmmmm. So one simple flooding issue will have my car out two weeks! I miss it- they put me in a Grand Am- not exactly the same feeling.

In any case, some thoughts: the tank or two before the flooding I started getting worse mileage with the same driving style (<180 miles/ tank from ~200 miles/ tank.) Also, I noticed some hestitation as I tried to accelerate at times. Things had been different even before the flooding. Perhaps the plugs are just really really dirty?

Mazda won't let my dealer touch my car- they want their engineers to look at first. Wish us all luck!

wow
I hope the best for you
mazda gave me a 98 escort as a rental a month ago

well the Japanese engineers are in town looking at my car. The dealer called as the engineers had questions: how did the car drive before it wouldn't start, how long is my daily commute, etc etc.

Said they should know more tomorrow. Hopefully my pain will help Mazda improve the engine!

here's the outcome: Mazda engineers want my engine for analysis!

http://www.rx-8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12559

I just got my car back from the dealer. They had it for 3 days. Tried to start the car, sounded like it was flooded. Called roadstide assistance and got the car towed. The tow truck driver said "Funny, this is a third one of these I've towed", then "Don't worry, Mazda can fix it" I call the dealer, he is like "you flooded it, and your the ninth person we have in here since we started selling them".

Found out later on that the battery cable was loose which may have contributed to the problem. It was the problem on most of the nine cars the dealer had to repair.

So you may want to check those battery cables.

Hi myrx8, could you please help me with these:

Originally posted by myrx8
Tried to start the car, sounded like it was flooded.

What/How does a flooded rotary sounds like? Could you help to elaborate a little, so one would know how to react if their engine is flooded.


Originally posted by myrx8
Found out later on that the battery cable was loose which may have contributed to the problem.
So you may want to check those battery cables.

Did they(Mazda) explain why/how a loose battery cable would cause the flooding issue?

Many thanks.

starter spins, but absolutely no compression- not even a cough from the engine

I hope i never hear that sound

Okay I said I wouldn't give my explanation of flooding causes again since there are people convinced that they are versed with rotaries stating that modern rotaries flooding is a myth.
All rotaries inherently run the risk of this but especially fuel injected ones. I've seen it with the GSL-SEs right up to the 95RX-7s. Brand new or with high miles( it's much worse with the old high mileage ones)
The reasons are these:
Rotary engines have relatively low static compression.
Rotor speeds are slow compared to e-shaft speed.
The worst combustion shape(area of flame propagation.)

So this is how this works.Starting is not their favorite thing.Most of the fuel systems have fuel remaining at the rail under pressure(in order to prevent vapor lock in hot climates.)The management systems don't know the difference between 100rpm and 300 cranking rpm and do not differentiate injector duty cycles for either.When the car is sufficently cold the watertemp sending unit tells the PCM. If the battery is not fully charged "tada" no start.
If you have great compression and state of tune(plugs etc) with a weak battery you are at risk.If you have any of these parts of this equation not at it's optimum operating condition you are at risk.
Please, if you don't have vast experience with these cars(either owning or working on them) don't attack my assessment.I don't know everything but these have been my observations.

Did they(Mazda) explain why/how a loose battery cable would cause the flooding issue?

Many thanks.

The dealer said that because the cable was loose, it may not have given enough juice to start the engine, ehich would have caused me to give it a little gas when it didn't need it.

When its flooded, its jus the starter trying to turn over.

A few bits of info:

Never touch the accelerator when starting. Flooring it after it has already started to flood only makes the problem worse.

On the old carburated 12A engines, you could pour a little bit of clean engine oil into the carburator, a few ounces at most, and that would take care of the problem by mixing with the puddle of gasoline sitting at the bottom of your engine. Your car will smoke like crazy until the oil is burned off, so do this outside if at all possible. You may be able to reproduce this trick on the RX-8 if you pull your trailing spark plugs and pour the oil directly into the engine. I suggest having the dealer pick it up instead.

That is why I love roadside assistance for the next 4 years

I started mine this morning to head to work...started backing out of the garage, and it just died (nope...I didn't stall it, etc...). Now it won't crank, and I had it towed to the dealer.

Sure enough, they said it was flooded (probably from me trying to crank it a couple of times after it died), and as a matter of fact, they had another one towed to the dealership today after mine for the same problem!!! They recommended allowing the car to warm up from a cold start, which I will certainly do from this point forward!

Crap, crap, crap , crap, crap!!

And FYI...the owners manual says to push the pedal all the way to the floor, and crank for 10 secs if you think the car is flooded. Then crank for 10 secs without the pedal depressed if this doesn't work.

My dealer didn't think much of the hold the pedal down and crank it. I got the impression that he thinks this just makes it worse. Thinking about I can't see how it would help either. Next time it happens to me I am removing the fuel injector relay and then cranking it.

Originally posted by LL7
My dealer didn't think much of the hold the pedal down and crank it. I got the impression that he thinks this just makes it worse. Thinking about I can't see how it would help either. Next time it happens to me I am removing the fuel injector relay and then cranking it.

The system senses a start with the pedal depressed and cuts off the fuel pump. It's a recovery mode apparently (I've not tried it).

it seens interesting that all of these flooded cars are happening now about the same time

Originally posted by miata2rx8
it seens interesting that all of these flooded cars are happening now about the same time

Yeah, I've moved mine cold and hot only a few feet, and it's started right up.

I don't understand. The car has normal compression and any excess fuel will be purged out the exhaust ports.

If they are ignited, then it's even easier to purge it all out.

I don't see how this differes than a normal engine, even when the FI system will shut the delivery of fuel off if the engine is not spinning.

Go figure! If I have problems, I'm gonna be bitchin' right here, but I have none of the problems with short startups.

I have multiple just warming up my extra wideband O2 sensor, and doing just a wot at idle run many many many many times.

Hmmmmppphphphphthtphtphthtph.