Hello,

I'm 18 years old and I will be getting my Driver's License soon and I'm thinking of getting a Mazda RX-8 with a manual transmission.

I have driven about 50 minutes my entire life but I learn quick. 6 hours more and I should have automatic down. Yep, I'm a newb to driving. :(

I just want to know if it's easy to navigate the controls of a manual transmission inside an RX-8, since I have never drove a car with manual tranmission before. How long did it take you guys/girls to learn stick shifting?

Can you give me any helpful advice/tips?

Any help will be appreciated, thanks. :)

Originally posted by FluffyBunnyFeet
Hello,

I'm 18 years old and I will be getting my Driver's License soon and I'm thinking of getting a Mazda RX-8 with a manual transmission.

I have driven about 50 minutes my entire life but I learn quick. 6 hours more and I should have automatic down. Yep, I'm a newb to driving. :(

I just want to know if it's easy to navigate the controls of a manual transmission inside an RX-8, since I have never drove a car with manual tranmission before. How long did it take you guys/girls to learn stick shifting?

Can you give me any helpful advice/tips?

Any help will be appreciated, thanks. :)

Here in the UK (England in my case) manual gear changing is very much the norm and automatics fairly rare. Everyone learns to manually shift and it only takes a few hours. If you already know the basics of driving then you know how to steer and brake so adding another way of gear shifting won't take long. You can do so much more with the engine once you've mastered it, really play with the revs. It's fun! It soon gets to the point where for general driving you don't have to consciously think about shifting the gears: a bit of your brain becomes trained to do it in the background almost like a built in auto box. If you don't know already then get someone to explain how the clutch actually works, I mean the mechanics of it. Once you know WHY you're doing what you're doing it'll help you to grasp the finer points of controlling the transmission system.

Originally posted by Lensman


Here in the UK (England in my case) manual gear changing is very much the norm and automatics fairly rare. Everyone learns to manually shift and it only takes a few hours. If you already know the basics of driving then you know how to steer and brake so adding another way of gear shifting won't take long. You can do so much more with the engine once you've mastered it, really play with the revs. It's fun! It soon gets to the point where for general driving you don't have to consciously think about shifting the gears: a bit of your brain becomes trained to do it in the background almost like a built in auto box. If you don't know already then get someone to explain how the clutch actually works, I mean the mechanics of it. Once you know WHY you're doing what you're doing it'll help you to grasp the finer points of controlling the transmission system.

Thanks a lot bro! I'll take your advice. :)

Hard to say. Depends on the person and what level of proficency is considered as "learned."

I learned to shift in less than an hour, enough to make the car move, albeit clumsily. In a few days to a couple weeks, you should be able to operate a manual without too much effort. I suppose at that level you can say you've learned to shift a manual. I'd say it takes a few months to a year to be able to shift naturally, efficiently and automatically. But in answer to my guess at the intent of your question - a few days to a week.

One tip, if you live in SF or other hilly area, learn to coordinate the hand brake with engaging your clutch while at a stop light on a hill. Without fail, another car will be stopped two feet behind you, and your car will slide back while attempting to engage the clutch. Simultaneously ease off the hand brake as the clutch engages. This was the scariest part of learning to drive a manual.

1-hour - Get the car moving - most of the time.
1-2 weeks - Comfortable in 95% of traffic situations. Nervous on hills, and in heavy traffic.
A few months - Never want to go back to driving an automatic.

In other words, what rodmeister already said.

Originally posted by FluffyBunnyFeet
Hello,

I'm 18 years old and I will be getting my Driver's License soon and I'm thinking of getting a Mazda RX-8 with a manual transmission.

I have driven about 50 minutes my entire life but I learn quick. 6 hours more and I should have automatic down. Yep, I'm a newb to driving. :(

I just want to know if it's easy to navigate the controls of a manual transmission inside an RX-8, since I have never drove a car with manual tranmission before. How long did it take you guys/girls to learn stick shifting?

Can you give me any helpful advice/tips?

Any help will be appreciated, thanks. :)

why are u just getting ur license at 18?

anyways manual takes only a few days to learn.

I'm new to manual's too, and hear all this talk about stalling. What exactly causes the car to stall? Is it releasing the clutch too quickly without giving gas, or is it giving too much gas, or something else? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Originally posted by pauleta
I'm new to manual's too, and hear all this talk about stalling. What exactly causes the car to stall? Is it releasing the clutch too quickly without giving gas, or is it giving too much gas, or something else? Any feedback would be appreciated.

u can only stall when ur car is at a standstill and ur trying to get it moving. its not like u can stall while ur driving. u stall when u release the clutch too fast without giving it enough gas.

Miata.net (http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=012411) had a pretty good thread on how to teach someone how to drive stick. You might be able to pick up some thoughts from it on how best to learn, or you may want to show it to the person who will be there to teach you. :)

I think there are almost two levels of driving a stick. The first stage is getting the car moving without stalling, but not necessarily smooth.
The next stage is when everything "clicks". That is when you start to understand friction points and the amount of clutch take up is required for smooth starts.

The key is don't over think it because you will end up stalling. Don't be afraid of stalling either. It usually happens at stoplights and stop signs. Some A hole may honk at you, but just ignore them, restart the car and be on your way. If you start panicking after a stall you get into trouble, but if you don't then it isn't a big deal at all.:)

Then there's level 3 where you learn how to rev match and then heel and toe like it's second nature :D With time grasshopper, with time :p

I can rev match pretty well, but I'm somewhat afraid of heel toeing for fear of destroying the clucth or tranny.

Originally posted by Rich
1-hour - Get the car moving - most of the time.
1-2 weeks - Comfortable in 95% of traffic situations. Nervous on hills, and in heavy traffic.
A few months - Never want to go back to driving an automatic.

In other words, what rodmeister already said.

well the RX-8 is my first Manual car.. ive driven manual but only when i usta Valet an that well wasnt good for the cars i drove.

I have to agree with what Thess guys say.. 1 hour i had geting the car moving down. First 30 mins was horrible of stalling.. then my dad saw i was moving my leg to quick of the clutch.

as bad as this sounds in the begining ride the clutch til 3rd gear if u have to ..

hopefully a week and im comfortable with driving this everywhere.. just hills i gotta be careful off

so far its my 3rd real day... Lets see, started out giving it too much gas + letting the clutch out too fast which resulted in nice little rubber patches. Then got scared of that and gave it too little gas and started stalling. It seems now though I have finally started to to find the happy medium.


so yea, a few hours to really get the starts down and feel semi-comfortable, a few days to feel comfortable enough to stop on hills in traffic, and still not sure how long to become really smooth....

First lesson, You can practice taking off at IDLE(no gas) on a flat surface to get the feel for the engagement point "grab" of the clutch, if you feed the clutch out slowly and not kill the engine. The car begins to creep forward and rpm's drop. This is not the time to give throttle though! Push the clutch back in to get back to idle and press the brake easy to a full stop.

Each car feels different, depending on design, pedal pressure, or wear on the actual clutch itself. Worn clutches "grab" higher(towards your body) in the pedal travel before you take your foot off the clutch. Hydraulic and cable clutches both have a different feel(linear vs. "springy"). Everybody can kill the motor in an unfamiliar car. No shame in that.

2-3 weeks you'll be comfortable, until your first uphill start(no e-brake hold cheating). ;)

Originally posted by Toadman
First lesson, You can practice taking off at IDLE(no gas) on a flat surface to get the feel for the engagement point "grab" of the clutch, if you feed the clutch out slowly and not kill the engine.

that's the absolute first thing i teach people when they want to learn how to drive a manual tranny, but i don't do it that way. the other way you can do it (assuming your tranny has syncros) is very very gently, like pinky pressure, press it into first with the clutch out. as you press the clutch in at some point the stick will just slip right in, that would be the engagement point and i have them just sitting there getting used to where the clutch will grab.

Originally posted by Toadman
First lesson, You can practice taking off at IDLE(no gas) on a flat surface to get the feel for the engagement point "grab" of the clutch, if you feed the clutch out slowly and not kill the engine. The car begins to creep forward and rpm's drop. This is not the time to give throttle though! Push the clutch back in to get back to idle and press the brake easy to a full stop.

Each car feels different, depending on design, pedal pressure, or wear on the actual clutch itself. Worn clutches "grab" higher(towards your body) in the pedal travel before you take your foot off the clutch. Hydraulic and cable clutches both have a different feel(linear vs. "springy"). Everybody can kill the motor in an unfamiliar car. No shame in that.

2-3 weeks you'll be comfortable, until your first uphill start(no e-brake hold cheating). ;)

Lol, then you'll wonder for a while how the rest of us start on hills without the handbrake (e-brake?)... until in a few weeks/months you'll suddenly realised that you did just that without even thinking.

After driving my RX-7 for ten years, I never really mastered starting on a hill without the handbrake because I live and drive in the flatter parts of Southern California. I encountered a start from a hill less than four times a year. I could get the car moving before it backed up more than a foot, but if I had a car several feet behind me, I'd get nervous and use the handbrake. If I lived in SF, I know I'd master the handbrakeless technique very quickly.

LOL,...

Yes... it's not THAT hilly round here, and dare I say it, I'm not completely sure how well a high revving lower torque engine would be suited to that sort of trick... I guess it's pretty powerful for the weight of the car so I'm guessing it'll be fine.

There is more to driving stick than learning how not to stall from stationary, but I do agree that it is important.

A couple of extra things to remember.

That handle next to the gear shift is not a 'parking brake' or 'emergency brake', it is a 'hand brake'. You use it a lot of the time.

In the UK we are all taught on a stick shift, and that includes proper use of the hand brake. ANY time the car is stationary the hand brake should be engaged. This is because you need to have the clutch and gas pedals in use when pulling away, so you are not in full control of the car if you have no brake engaged at the time. Riding the clutch to hold a car stationary on a slight incline is not a good idea. It wears the clutch out, and also if you were to get rear-ended your feet would slip and you would catapult further.
Holding the brake pedal, and then jumping to the gas pedal is also poor car control (but very popular)

I was most amused when American friends asked what was wrong when I used the handbrake at every junction !
BUT. Also remember that the handbrake is intended to hold the car stationary and not to actually slow the car down. Never do that unless you main brakes have failed.

Second point (sorry for going on a bit), is that it is also important to know WHEN to change gear. I watched an american friend driving her miata around. When coming to a turn, she would slow down on the footbrake, press the clutch in, coast round the corner, and then select second gear and release the clutch.

VERY BAD.

You are only in full control of the car when you are in a suitable gear. Always get into second before the turn, and don't hold the clutch in. It's all about being in control of the car, and being in the right gear all the time allows you to react quicker. She may have just been an exceptionally bad stick shifter, but then again you only know these things if someone teaches you.

Originally posted by jimbobjoe
There is more to driving stick than learning how not to stall from stationary, but I do agree that it is important.

A couple of extra things to remember.

That handle next to the gear shift is not a 'parking brake' or 'emergency brake', it is a 'hand brake'. You use it a lot of the time.

In the UK we are all taught on a stick shift, and that includes proper use of the hand brake. ANY time the car is stationary the hand brake should be engaged. This is because you need to have the clutch and gas pedals in use when pulling away, so you are not in full control of the car if you have no brake engaged at the time. Riding the clutch to hold a car stationary on a slight incline is not a good idea. It wears the clutch out, and also if you were to get rear-ended your feet would slip and you would catapult further.
Holding the brake pedal, and then jumping to the gas pedal is also poor car control (but very popular)



Absolutely... although many people jump pedals... we know it's bad, but if you're sitting in traffic for ages you tend to get a little bit lax.... I think it's more important to KNOW when you're bending the rules.. LOL.

I once saw somone hold a car still on the clutch for so long that smoke started pouring out of it... !!.. I had to laugh!



I was most amused when American friends asked what was wrong when I used the handbrake at every junction !



You know that most people don't... although it's true that you should...



BUT. Also remember that the handbrake is intended to hold the car stationary and not to actually slow the car down. Never do that unless you main brakes have failed.



I once did this for about 60 miles... the main brakes worked, but a pad was damaged by a stone getting stuck in it... and I didn't want to ruin my disks... mind you it was 3am and the road was streight so I wasn't needing it much!



Second point (sorry for going on a bit), is that it is also important to know WHEN to change gear. I watched an american friend driving her miata around. When coming to a turn, she would slow down on the footbrake, press the clutch in, coast round the corner, and then select second gear and release the clutch.

VERY BAD.



The stuff about the handbrake is laziness, but this is horrendously dangerous... Two things happen, you get accustomed to taking the car out of gear.... so if an emergency happens you might already be out of gear or might take it out of gear as a reflex... then you have very little control over a skid, plus you can't accelerate to avoid somthing.... it takes a long time at speed to get back into a gear and do somthing... especically since you've just revved it to 10,000 rpm before you realised that nothing is happening.



You are only in full control of the car when you are in a suitable gear. Always get into second before the turn, and don't hold the clutch in. It's all about being in control of the car, and being in the right gear all the time allows you to react quicker. She may have just been an exceptionally bad stick shifter, but then again you only know these things if someone teaches you.

Agreed, it's a fast track to an accident... especailly if you're driving fast enough to have any fun.

Quote: "ANY time the car is stationary the hand brake should be engaged."

I understand and respect what you are saying, but this is another reason for buying the automatic RX-8 in major metro areas. In Los Angeles' congested streets and freeways, you'd be shifting and applying the handbrake every one hundred feet or less, sometimes in 10 feet increments during "rush hour" which actually extends from 5-9AM am in the morning and 3 to 8pm in the evening.

You'd end up with legs and a right (or left in Europe) arm like Arnold Schwartzenegger, or just plain exhausted. And yes I'm a pencil necked, lazy American :D.

If the pedals are properly placed, there is no need to use the hand brake. In the RX-8 it's quite easy to heel and toe, which accomplishes the same thing as using the handbrake.

Originally posted by Rich
If the pedals are properly placed, there is no need to use the hand brake. In the RX-8 it's quite easy to heel and toe, which accomplishes the same thing as using the handbrake.

Heel and toe techniques are for letting you hit the gas when downshifting under braking to help the gearbox to rev-match.

It's just too easy for your foot to slip when stationary for it to be safe. But yes that is what people do sometimes (and I do it myself as well when I can't be bothered).

If safety is the primary concern, and it should be if we are talking about the 'right way' to learn to drive, when the car is stationary the handbrake should be applied.

In fact here they teach that if you are not the first in the queue at the lights then you should also be in neutral. Again a safety thing in case you get rear ended and your feet slip. If the car is in neutral with the handbrake on, you're not going to fly too far. But if you're sitting on the gas, brake, and clutch all at the same time who knows where your car will end up. It only takes a couple of seconds. It helps here that out traffic-light sequence is different to yours. You go from red straight to green. We go to a dual red-and-amber in between to warn drivers to prepare to move.