Yo,


I felt the need to post here after reading about all the hand wringing, hair pulling and teeth gnashing about the HP figures for the RX-8.

Some background...I drive a 1989 RX-7 GTUs. It is a normally aspirated 13B rotary, rated at 160HP at the eccentric shaft. With the mild mods I've done to my car...maybe I'm putting out 175. I dyno'ed the car at 140RWHP.

My best 1/4 mile run is 15.7 @ 89mph. Wow...not too impressive. Guess what happened on Tuesday?

At Thunderhill Raceway, I successfully chased down and was waved by:

1. Honda S2000
2. BMW 540i
3. Porsche Carrera Cabrio
4. Dodge Viper GTS

My friend chased down and was waved by a Nissan 350Z, Ford Focus SVT and a 1.8T Jetta.

Now, how can this be? All those cars kill my RX-7 on paper. More HP, more TQ, better 0 to 60, better 1/4 mile.

What's the secret?

It's all about handling...balance...light weight...and guess what? The RX-8 has that in spades. What I see here is what I see on the RX-7 Forum. There are guys that love twisties and guys that love the straight line. It's usually the turbo vs. NA battle, but now I see it being played out here.

Although on first look, being low on HP is a bummer but what I've seen is that people who /get/ it...what the RX-8 is all about...much like the Miata.../it doesn't matter/ how much HP that little rotary is putting out. It's how the car feels when you drive it. How it reacts to your inputs. How it moves you effortlessly through the corners.

That's what the RX-8 is all about, what the RX-7 is all about. Handling, plain and simple. Forget all this talk about HP, 1/4 mile times...

Enjoy your RX-8's...you'll be surprised at what they're capable of.

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2054387

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2054415

Kevin
1989 GTUs "Normally Aspirated."

I think the majority of the people concerned with the HP number are not so much complaining because they need that HP in the 1/4 mile race, or any other race for that matter, but they're concerned that it is after all missing. People buy the whole package deal, and part of the package says 247 HP. A person who "gets it" would buy it if it was 220 HP, but only if it's sold as a 220 HP machine.

It also comes down to bang for your buck - it's not unusual to save around 500-1000 bucks if you opt for a manual transmission car. In the 8's case, that money you save is being put back into the engine. So if you're going to produce the same results as an auto, I want a refund of 500-1000 bucks for rowing my own gears.

This reminds me of an article in Sport Compact Car magazine that pitted an imported Lotus Elise (the one with the Integra Type-R drivetrain) with a Mustang Cobra. It was overpowered, in the sense of HP and TQ, when compared to the 'stang, but that Elise totally blow the 'stang out of the water in every performance category. It had a lap time significantly faster than the Cobra.

It's hard to beat a 1800 lbs car (I think this is how must the Elise weight) with 200HP and good suspension setup.

I defintely see you point about the RX8

Magic8

Yo,


I understand where you're coming from, you paid for something you should get it. I am sure if this is a real problem, Mazda will take care of it.

I just wanted to combat the feeling that the RX-8 has become totally emasculated with the missing 20HP...that this great car is now junk without these 20 horsies.

I think that is bunk...that the RX-8 is a great car and great cars don't have to rely on horsepower to provide a fantastic driving experience.

The Miata proves that...and my GTUs proves that.

Kevin
1989 GTUs "Turbo? We don't need no steenkin' turbo!"

I like the second picture there. The car still looks good even after so many years.

Personally, I'm getting sick of the number of threads about how disappointed people are about the 8's drag strip performance. At the same time, I'm also tired of the people who said that anybody who is too preoccupied with 1/4 mile times 'just don't get it'.

This then expanded into the type of cars that embodied the two different camps (ala 350z vs. RX-8) as we can see in countless threads.

You see, both camps are right and they wouldn't agree with each other. They just don't get each other (like water and oil). I think whoever who read those threads but did not respond agrees with my view that they're both great cars and it's not worth the time to justify them. This is because anybody who are not in your camp would be thinking the same as you think about them: "They just don't get it".

Having a great handling car is a big plus, but possessing the ability to take advantage of that capability shouldn't be overlook. To me, driver's skill is the greatest variables of all when it comes to performance on the track. Having said that, a willing car does make the task a lot easier and that much more enjoyable. I hope the RX-8 will prove to be such a car when I take it to Sebring in three weeks.

Kevin, I think you were being modest and giving most of the credits to your RX-7, which looks awesome, btw. Kudos for choosing the right tool for the job :) .

For every llb you add to a car you need Hp to push it, and every llb works against you when your stoping and cornering.

The Elsie in UK spec (rover 1.8k engine) is 750kg kerb weight - or about 1600llbs, with 120bhp. One of the few production cars over here that can be severely pushed on tracks with its standard brakes and not fade.

But watch it get lapped by those caterhams:)

Theres plenty of cars with high HP, even in UK, I could go get a WRX-STI or EVO,Alfa 147GTA, Focus RS or whatever. None of them have the overall package that is the RX-8.


If it wasnt for needing 4 seats I'd be in the Loti tho :)

My stand on the lost HP issue is two-fold:

1) I want what I paid for and I know that it's there, it's just gotta be let-out. My friends laughingly know me as a man who doesn't hold-back when it comes to bargaining. For example, one day in a clothing store, we were in the checkout line when their computers crashed & had to be brought back up. Several minutes later, the manager came to those who were in line (about 30 people by now) and said he was "very sorry" about the delay, to which I spoke loudly, "Yeah? How sorry are you? 10%?" Same thing applies here.

2) Since the engine should be delivering 247, but is only delivering 220, there is, what I would consider to be, a malfunction going on. It's running pig-rich for one. I don't like the idea of running it for very long while it is malfuntioning, period. Longevity?

That's my stand on the issue in a nut shell...

I do very much love this car in all the different ways you can look at it. I'm just totally astounded by it. That's why I still have an unquenchable desire to know everything I can about it, and that's why I still participate in this forum and want to participate in events with it. My wife is behind me on this, so that makes it easy for me to keep on working this car more as a hobby than as a means of transportation....;)

I have to agree with one point in particular concerning this thread: People who are obsessed with 1/4 mi times really just don't get it when it comes to this car. I am no professional by any stretch of the imagination, but I (with dsc ON and from a standstill launch 5k rpm feather clutch (outside temp 92 F)) was able to pull a 15.43 sec. 1/4 mi run on only the second attempt. To give a description of my experience, Before this attempt, I had never taken a car to a 1/4 mi strip before in my life! To some, this might be flameworthy, but please note that I do not intend to destroy my car, only a moderately aggressive acceleration to see what it would be like in a controlled environment for curiositiy's sake. That being said, the instant you take this car into a turn at speed, anyone paying attention would instantly recognize what the long term goal of Mazda engineers planned for this car. . .AUTOX.:D BTW, anyone who has taken time to notice the particulars would notice the same thing that I and my service techs have noticed: "life begins at 5250 rpm.":cool:

Hey RarestRX,

1) I fully agree, great post.

2) Thanks for the pics. I used to have a white one just like yours. I loved that car! Not the fastest thing I've had, but a pure pleasure to drive everyday.

As for those missing 20hp, when someone finds them give me a call on my cell phone because I'll be out in my new RX8 having a blast.

Yeah RarestRX, I don't like to brag in this forum too much about my brothers NORPAC SCCA GT2 RX7 in my avatar. However, since you mentioned Thunderhill, he took the record for fastest lap time there, uh, I think last year (?). I got it on videotape. Nice track! What's that wicked blind lefty going over that knoll? Saw my brother spinout right there before he got it figured out.:D
Too bad he's a zillion miles away from me. I got to go once out that way & he raced @ Mission, BC that Saturday. He usually wipes-up there but he lost 4th gear that day - he was so upset, mainly cuz I was there... Man though, what a cool thing to be doing! Once a year or so, he comes out here to Road Atlanta to race too. What a blast!
Ever see his TV show "Realtime Racing" (satelite feed out of Seattle)? He has a cam mount on the rollbar and he tapes the practice sessions, qualifying & the main race. Then he dubbs it with remarks about what is being seen & all, clips it, adds an intro & a wrap-up from the pits. Then, out it goes as a 30 minute show.
He's defending NORPAC GT2 champ, with a few other years before that, & I'm told he's about got this year sewn-up already. See his number? #1.

Zoom-zoom!!!!!

Originally posted by RarestRX
Yo,

I just wanted to combat the feeling that the RX-8 has become totally emasculated with the missing 20HP...that this great car is now junk without these 20 horsies.


Kevin
1989 GTUs "Turbo? We don't need no steenkin' turbo!"

250hp - 20 missing hp = 230hp.
230hp - 17% drivetran loss = 190whp.....

250hp - 35 missing hp = 215hp
215hp - 17% drivetran loss = 178.5whp (more like it)

Like 5Gen_Prelude said, people who love cars will buy the RX-8 in its current 215hp-220hp, but ONLY if it was advertised as such.

SM this whole hp thing must be like a wet dream for you

We don't need yet another thread over this issue. Let's stick to what RarestRX had meant to say, and that is, horsepower isn't everything. In a sports car, handling means as much if not more than how much horsepower it had.

Yo,


Cool, it looks like most of you guys get it.

I'm not condoning the missing 20HP, or 35HP, or whatever....I'm just saying that horsepower isn't everything.

Handling is everything!! *grin*

Well, at least to me it is.

Since you guys liked the pic, here are a few more:

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2054362

Old school Ronals.

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=2054398

My buddy about to go 350Z hunting.

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1939756

My other ride, 1981 VW Scirocco at Sears Point. Another "HP ain't all that..." car.

Enjoy!

Kevin
1989 GTUs "I (heart) NA Rotaries."

Wow RarestRX, that is a very clean FC. Rare indeed!

A little off topic, but does anyone know why every FC RX-7 on sale at autotrader is a convertible? I've been toying with the idea of getting a FC as a autocross car but I wanted a coupe and I see nothing but convertibles!

Yo,

Originally posted by DYT
Wow RarestRX, that is a very clean FC. Rare indeed!

A little off topic, but does anyone know why every FC RX-7 on sale at autotrader is a convertible? I've been toying with the idea of getting a FC as a autocross car but I wanted a coupe and I see nothing but convertibles!

Thanks! I got it with about 38K on it, has almost 70K now. The GTUs model is considered to be one of the rarest RX-7's, if not the rarest. They made about 1100 in 1989 and only 100 in 1990. It was the homologation special, stripped down for weight, just the hardcore NA machine. I love it.

About all the 'verts...I feel you man...it seems like 80% of the ads are for 'verts...and they usually want 8 to 10K for 'em! If you have any questions about the FC, let me know.

Kevin
1989 GTUs "100% fat free."

Thanks, I'll keep looking. The alternate plan is a miata