My heart is broken! I have cancelled my order for the RX8. Immigration plans next year have forced a decision, and the residual values predicted make the gamble of selling the car after 12 months of ownership at a 40% loss just before I climb aboard a plan too risky to even think about.

BUT…

I called TW White and Sons and said I needed to cancel; and they said I needed to send a ‘cancellation’ letter. I did and 3 weeks later I had a cheque for £1000. Today they called and said they wanted £100 back. They had made a mistake. I agreed to the terms and conditions and accepted that I owed the money. So be it, I’d pay.

BUT...

And this part destroys everything I have for Mazda as an organization. Words cannot describe what scum they are!

THEY ASKED FOR THE BOOK BACK!

And there you go, I’ll send it in the post tomorrow….

It's not just Mazda Ed: when I cancelled my 350Z order the dealer asked me to send back a cheap DVD I'd been sent that week, nevertheless that's a bit much. I think they've got a nerve asking for the £100 too, Nissan returned my full £2000 deposit. Sorry to lose you as a potential owner but on the plus side when you do eventually buy an RX-8 you'll get one with all the bugs ironed out and with a larger selection of colours.

don't send it back! what are they going to do? send the police over to get it? sue you over it? tell them to sod off and keep it!

I wouldnt send the money or the book. Not yet anyway, they are on very dodgy ground having returned your deposit and presented you with a book. I think they might struggle contractually on both. However if they sound like they might turn nasty with county courts, etc be a bit careful as it could damage your credit rating, but in my opinion I am not so sure they will put up a fight. That's the polite version of what I think.
After all, they probably gave you an estimated delivery date and defaulted on that, so I think you have a good argument.
But..... the quoted residual is, IMHO, a load of b***x. For probably the first 6 months to a year, there will be a waiting list and people will pay a premium for a nearly new one.

I wouldn't send the book back. It's not like you suddenly stopped being an RX8 fan.

surely by being nice they have more chance of you buying Mazda products in future - worth more than the book!


Stu C

after all the pre-orderers have been through? keep it - tell 'em the dog ate it, don't even think about paying the postage!

besides if you're emigrating in a year who cares?

did you order the book? was recieving the book part of the contract that you decided to back out of? I doubt there is any mention of the book anywhere in there.. the book was a gift, and that is all, they have no rights to it, and they should know that, so they wouldn't argue it I'm sure.

The book is a gift from Mazdaas far as I can tell. When they gave it to you did they say here's a book to borrow? I think not. I don't recall anything in the letter saying that the continuing ownership of hte book was dependent on you remaining a pre-order customer. I can't see any way that they can claim the book back. Keep it mate - it's cost you a £100 after all.:(

Originally posted by AndyPearce
The book is a gift from Mazdaas far as I can tell. When they gave it to you did they say here's a book to borrow? I think not. I don't recall anything in the letter saying that the continuing ownership of hte book was dependent on you remaining a pre-order customer. I can't see any way that they can claim the book back. Keep it mate - it's cost you a £100 after all.:(

Totally agree,

Sorry to hear you have had to cancel, but asking for the book back is petty verging on the ridiculous.

As for the £100, that is a different matter, but if they have given you the full £1000 back it could be worth arguing the toss.

All the deposits have been paid to Mazda UK, so it depends how much Mazda refund to the dealer. Maybe they refunded the £1000 to you, then found out that Mazda would only give them back £900 so they are out of pocket.

I think you may need to return the £100 but keep the book, it was a freebie. or if you do return it make sure it been 'well read' so it can't be passed on as new.

rael

Ed, sorry to hear of the cancellation.
Mazda (dealer) scores another PR own goal. I wonder if Mazda UK know whats the dealer is doing ?
Point of interest, my dealer has offered me my full £1000 deposit as refund if I do cancel, eventhough I've signed their terms for them to retain £100 (admin costs?).

Ed, get some coffee cup stains on the book, and keep the money.



AnilS.

I think you will find that as there is no mention of a book in the contract you signed when you signed up for the car. This book was a sweetener because they screwed up on delivery dates.

Thats the same when we get these so called "prints". Even though we did get a letter indicating we will be getting these, there is no contractual obligations.

Like others have said I think they are on very shakey ground here they have refunded in full and whilst it was some dealers who specified a £100 loss in deposit i know for a fact that my local dealer in Bristol was offereing full refunds if when the car arrived the customer changed their mind.
Regarding the boog that is just petty and insulting.
What about the black Acrylic invite - I'm surprised they didn't ask for that back.
They have done a great job of convincing a potential future costomer to never buy a Mazda again
:(

Ed

Tell them you've ebay'd it.

It was a gift, they have no rights to it back.

NOW WHERES MY DAMNED BOOK!

Still havnt got my welcome pack yet let alone a book.

I agree with everyone else here.
The book was a gift. It is yours to keep.

As for the money, it bit shakier ground.

I was verbally promised that I could have a 100% refund, if I didn't like the car when it arrived. As we ordered a car you couldn't see, touch, or climb into I was concerned about not being able to get all my money back if the car was not suitable. I have big feet. Too big to drive an MX-5 (and way too big for an Elise - but that's another story)

But, your reason for cancelling is not directly related to the car. So I think that it is fair to stick to the 90% refund.

BUT KEEP THE BOOK !!!!!:D

Given the delay in refunding your deposit and the petty request for the return of the book, I would be inclined to not only keep the book but also refuse to return the £100.

I think they would have difficulty relying on the T &Cs. As I recall, they state that Mazda "may" keep £100 for admin costs. Since they have refunded the full £1000, I think they would have great difficulty in relying on that clause to reclaim the £100. Initially at least I would refuse to refund the £100 as my guess is they won't push it.

Just my 2ps worth

I can't believe they have the nerve to ask for the book back.

I really hope this is just one clueless dealer and not an example of how Mazda generally treats it's customers and potential customers. If this is how they normally behave then I will have to reconsider whether I want to buy a car off these people - imagine the hassle if you are trying to get warranty work done, or if you have a complaint about work done during a service. Is it their company policy to be a complete pain in the a** over every detail, when dealing with customers?

I'd give the RX8 helpline a call and ask them if they expect the book to be returned - I'm sure they'll give you a different story. Mazda UK will be upset ot hear how some of their dealers are treating potential customers.

Thank you to all of you who have commented.

What Mazda don't understand is that I will buy the car. I love this car and there is nothing on the market today to touch it. The difference is that I need to wait 12 months and the purchase will be in another country.

I will pay the £100 because I signed the T's and C's and agreed to the terms.

It's just the book thing that is pissing me off.

Thanks again and I will visit the forum every day as I have done so ever since ordering in Feb.

I want this car. I will buy it. Please Mazda, let me keep the book?

I'm curious about a comment you made in your first posting on this thread. You said that the depreciation was expected to be 40% in the first year.

I'd like to know where you have got that figure from as it slightly worries me.

PS KEEP THE DAMN BOOK

The depreciation figures were posted a long time ago on what cars website, which showed the stock mazda depreciation of 36% left after 4 years.

This is going to be cobblers guys, its far more likely to be around 60% after 3 yrs, 50% after 4 - ie just less than the TT. This was also discussed at the time.

http://www.whatcar.com/roadtest/single/data.asp?rt=4421&show=&sort=9&sortorder=&admake=25&admodel=25149&c=#


Ed, who at T W Whites told you this? I'm obviously interested as I pre-ordered from them before I (and probably you) knew about the book or the print or the prodrive event.

Also, they DO NOT form part of the T&Cs you signed.

Finally, regarding the £100, then the car spec is not what was agreed, nor is it within the timescales agreed at the time. Mine, signed by Swee Sealey states delivery of End June/Start July - what does yours state?
Its not a 240 ps model as specified on the EP welcome pack nor in the specs. It also therefore has a different 0-60 time.

They are on very shaky ground here, plus you have the dosh already.

renegade_si - you completly miss the AA depreciation estimates?


here (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/advice/advice_residual_show.jsp?from=variants&makeName=Mazda&modelName=RX-8&engineSize=1.3&trimName=A1&trimDisplay=%5Bno+trim%5D&transmissionName=Manual&transmissionType=BAD&doorsBodyName=5+Door+Coupe&bodyType=E&makeID=C6&modelID=C3&engineName=1.3&engineID=A1&fuelName=Petrol&fuelID=XX&uModelID=87286&qModelID=1)

After 4 years @10kmiles = £10611 (48%).

Much better than the what car figures.

This car will either apreciate or loose little value in its first year at least.

Originally posted by ed hall
Thank you to all of you who have commented.

What Mazda don't understand is that I will buy the car. I love this car and there is nothing on the market today to touch it. The difference is that I need to wait 12 months and the purchase will be in another country.

I will pay the £100 because I signed the T's and C's and agreed to the terms.

It's just the book thing that is pissing me off.

Thanks again and I will visit the forum every day as I have done so ever since ordering in Feb.

I want this car. I will buy it. Please Mazda, let me keep the book?

Hi Ed,

I suppose you will come to South Africa. I spoke last week to the dealer here in Cape Town. He promises the car for October. He cannot confirm the price yet but he spoke of most likely R375000! That is at the current exchange rate 32000 pounds! Maybe you better buy the car in the UK and bring it with to SA!

Regards from Cape Town

Sorry Rob, didn't see your reply - I know the AA ones, I work for them (well Centrica that own them!) I was merely pointing out where the 40% figure had come from. Thats why I said they were cobblers!!!!

:D

Originally posted by sheylen


Hi Ed,

I suppose you will come to South Africa. I spoke last week to the dealer here in Cape Town. He promises the car for October. He cannot confirm the price yet but he spoke of most likely R375000! That is at the current exchange rate 32000 pounds! Maybe you better buy the car in the UK and bring it with to SA!

Regards from Cape Town

32K quids ? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Damn, whats the extra 6K ? Shipping costs ? :p

I am very cross with Mazda, they can sell the 6 at a competitive price (R 199000) but not the RX-8. A BMW 330 4-doors costs R335000 and A Audi TT 225 R358000.

I am also from Belgium (Leuven).

regards

Originally posted by sheylen
I am very cross with Mazda, they can sell the 6 at a competitive price (R 199000) but not the RX-8. A BMW 330 4-doors costs R335000 and A Audi TT 225 R358000.

I am also from Belgium (Leuven).

regards

Dont quote me on this, but I'm guessing the RX8 will NOT do very well over there.......;)

That is the problem....because most worldwide RHD 3 series, C-Class Mercs and Golfs are made in SA, the prices offerred by these manufacturers to SA consumers is brilliant. Imports then become terribly expensive because of taxes and shipment costs....

Thats why I'm not at all surprised to see that the 3 series is the (the last time I looked) 4rth best seller in SA.

To clarify the issue regarding the book:

The book has always been a gift from Mazda and it has never been intended that anyone should return it.

Mazda have confimed this to me directly, and have also said they will speak to the dealer concerned to clear up any misunderstanding.

For whatever reason, it was the dealer and not Mazda UK who decided they would ask for the book back and they did this without consulting Mazda directly.

Bottom line is that Ed can keep the book :) and that was always Mazda's intention, so it is not really fair to call Mazda 'Scum' .

Originally posted by MarkW
Bottom line is that Ed can keep the book :) and that was always Mazda's intention, so it is not really fair to call Mazda 'Scum' .

Good news for Ed. In his defence it's a common mistake to lump the dealerships in with the manufacturers and perceive them as the same company. Many people forget than dealers are simply franchise operators rather than owned by the manufacturer.

He should change it to 'And my Mazda dealer is scum for trying to get my book back' !:D

you're absolutley right, the dealer let me down. Mazda are the good guys here. I defended Mazda not too long ago about making mistakes...

Pleased about the book though. Thanks Mark.

Cheers
Ed

Just a thought, but maybe you could get your own back?

1. Send them a letter saying their book has been delayed.
2. Wait a few months
3. Send another letter telling them they won't be getting as many pages as they expected.
4. See 2.
5. Send the book saying it has more pages than it really does.

-pete

Ha ! Like it :)

advise them that if they want the cover, then that's a spec change and will put them at the back of the queue.

advise them that you are unable to let them have the book at the moment, as another driver who has no intention of buying a book wishes to see it first.

apologise for the confusion and then confirm that in fact there are no books actually in the country yet.

Originally posted by AndyPearce

Good news for Ed. In his defence it's a common mistake to lump the dealerships in with the manufacturers and perceive them as the same company. Many people forget than dealers are simply franchise operators rather than owned by the manufacturer.

True, but lets not let Mazda off too lightly. If they allow someone to hang a big "Mazda" sign outside their business, and act as the main point of contact between Mazda and its customers, they can hardly say that what that business does is nothing to do with them (and I'm sure Mazda don't think of the relationship with their dealers in that way).

Mazda decide who gets it's franchises, and they are entitled to insist on certain standards of customer service in return for the margin they give their dealers. If Mazda dealers are poor (and I am sure this is only true of some of them) then ultimately only Mazda can fix this.

Originally posted by ChrisW

True, but lets not let Mazda off too lightly. If they allow someone to hang a big "Mazda" sign outside their business, and act as the main point of contact between Mazda and its customers, they can hardly say that what that business does is nothing to do with them (and I'm sure Mazda don't think of the relationship with their dealers in that way).

Mazda decide who gets it's franchises, and they are entitled to insist on certain standards of customer service in return for the margin they give their dealers. If Mazda dealers are poor (and I am sure this is only true of some of them) then ultimately only Mazda can fix this.

I hear what you are saying, but in this instance it was the dealer who was incorrect. Yes, they are acting as an agent for Mazda, but Mazda (or anyone else for that matter) cant be aware of every conversation their dealers have with customers.

Mazda found out about it, apologised, and have spoken to the dealer to correct the situation. I dont really see what else they could be expected to do. :confused:

Originally posted by MarkW


I hear what you are saying, but in this instance it was the dealer who was incorrect. Yes, they are acting as an agent for Mazda, but Mazda (or anyone else for that matter) cant be aware of every conversation their dealers have with customers.

Mazda found out about it, apologised, and have spoken to the dealer to correct the situation. I dont really see what else they could be expected to do. :confused:
There was nothing more that Mazda could do in this instance. But I was also thinking about our experience of Mazda dealers generally.

It seems that some of us have dealers who are very responsive, contact us regularly and generally treat us like valued customers. And some of us have to put up with dealers who just don't care once they've got our deposits. The latter type damage Mazda's brand image and reputation so Mazda ought to be concerned. The book issue is just a symptom of this.

Ultimately, the quality of Mazda dealers is Mazda's responsibility.

Originally posted by ChrisW

There was nothing more that Mazda could do in this instance. But I was also thinking about our experience of Mazda dealers generally.

It seems that some of us have dealers who are very responsive, contact us regularly and generally treat us like valued customers. And some of us have to put up with dealers who just don't care once they've got our deposits. The latter type damage Mazda's brand image and reputation so Mazda ought to be concerned. The book issue is just a symptom of this.

Ultimately, the quality of Mazda dealers is Mazda's responsibility.

Well as a general point on dealers etc I agree. Ive yet to really come across a manufacturer that has consistently good dealers anywhere though, it seems like a problem for the whole industry and not just Mazda.

Originally posted by ChrisW
Ultimately, the quality of Mazda dealers is Mazda's responsibility.

Having insider knowledge of manufacturer / dealer relationships I can comment on this and you would be surprised how little influence beyond branding / corporate image the manufacturer has upon dealerships. It is very rare for a dealership to lose their franchise and you'd be surprised how much clout large dealer groups carry. They regularly stick two fingers up to the manufacturer and do what they want.

Some manufacturers hold their franchises on tighter reigns but I wouldn't be surprised if Mazda UK gave the dealer a friendly ticking off and the dealer put the phone down and said 'so what?'

Just came off the phone with Mazda and cancelled my order too - They did ask why and then promised my money would be with me within 10days. I specifically asked for the whole £1000 as I was cancelling due to the excessive delay and the girl on the phone said she'd make a note. Either way no big deal.

Re the book - its a fine book, definitely a gift and so even if they ask they wont see it ;)

Other than that Iwill test drive the car to see if I want one for the summer.

Looking forward to winter in my new SUV...

Cheers

BK

You cancelled with 8 weeks to go for an SUV ?

err... OK.

Black night, when did you order/whats your order number????


Edit :-

Just noticed you said EP1x somewhere. Cool, I move up 1 more slot.

Enjoy your RX-300 sukka! :)

Rob D thanks for the caring thoughts ;-) I was one of the first to order.

Morgan R - I made up my mind to cancel after the last timeslip - this is just me getting round to it....

I really dont want an 8 for the winter. I will still test drive the car and monitor the forum - if its that good maybe I'll get one for next summer and hopefully any bugs will have been ironed out by then....

Finally re the SUV - yup a different drive completely but man the luxury is the dogs

Enjoy your cars

:p

Hasta

BK