I have to say, Saturn and GM are really kicking major butt.

Good looks inside and out and at least it "looks" like better quality.

I wouldn't mind getting my wife the Aura, it's very good looking and has a powerful V6.

...and of course the very good looking Sky!

I'm a pretty big fan of the 3.6L 6 that is currently offered in the Caddy CTS and will also be offered in the top of the line Aura. However, the interior of the CTS is nice but nowhere near the level of BMW 3 series. Some of the Aura shots I've seen suggest that the interior quality levels might even beat the CTS, which makes the pricing on the top of the line Aura very interesting. I'm very curious to see just how far below the CTS it will price out.

The sky looks pretty dope. has a corvette esk feel to it. I just checked their site, and think the rear is super ugly. But the rest of it looks pretty good.

i'm so happy gm came out with a stock turbo engine, as is bmw. The self tuning is quite easier, thats why i love the 90's :)

I think the sedan (Aura, I'm guessing?) looks a bit too "surprised." Headlights are too big for the front end. SUV is nice, but there's some weird business going on with the grill(s) and fog lamp areas. They're getting REAL close to putting out some VERY sharp cars though. I can see them running with these inspirations and knocking everyone's socks off with their next round of cars. Can't complain about the interiors though, they've got these cars looking quite sharp on the inside.

How the hell did Saturn go from being the most outdated, uninspired line of cars in the world to one of the most exciting/interesting up-and-comers?

Also - just noticed that the SUV stole our fender flares. :rofl:

Finally, a thread all about me. I personally think that I am Spartacus. Thanks for asking!

Really have to see/feel it to believe it, it looks awesome in pictures, but there something about GM cars. the styling improved, but my impression for saturn is zero, theres a huge saturn/saab dealership across the street from where i work that never really clears their lot, always have 100s of new 04s and 05s sitting in a lot behind the dealership, when they line them up, looks like a huge rental fleet
________
Depakote lawsuites (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

a dark blue Sky was following me on my way to happy hour today, i thought it was one beautiful car, much sexier than the already great looking solstice. I ended up missing my turn and kept driving for another 10 minutes and staring at it in my rear view mirror before i realized I missed the turn.

which makes the pricing on the top of the line Aura very interesting.

I hope it's reasonable, or else most families won't be able to get it no matter how it looks.

Headlights are too big for the front end.

Yeah, the headlights and fog lights are a bit....huge, but I don't think it hurts the overall effect of the look too much. The Sky and Aura still look aggressive and better than most cars out there.

How the hell did Saturn go from being the most outdated, uninspired line of cars in the world to one of the most exciting/interesting up-and-comers?

Who ever is the guy/gal who is running Saturn at this time, he needs a raise and control over the rest of GM's world. The jump for Saturn is nothing but spectacular...

Finally, a thread all about me. I personally think that I am Spartacus. Thanks for asking!

...and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise, no matter how much truth is involved....lol :p:

Oh no, now you are going to put me on your enemies list…lol, it’s just a joke…

Found a new Saturn concept, the Saturn PreVue. It's more concept than anything else but they say the next Vue might look similar.

Check it out...family cars like this, I wouldn't mind at all...

Found a new Saturn concept, the Saturn PreVue. It's more concept than anything else but they say the next Vue might look similar.

Check it out...family cars like this, I wouldn't mind at all...


A 2-door SUV is not exactly a family car :D:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.....lol

Man, it must be a very, very, very cold day in hell - Saturn is showing up with cars that I might actually want to drive! I'm scared! :scared:

Man, it must be a very, very, very cold day in hell - Saturn is showing up with cars that I might actually want to drive! I'm scared! :scared:


Hyundai too.......did earth slip through a worm hole or something?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.....lol


I used the same line to sell my wife on me getting the RX8......" honey, it's got 4 doors and 6 airbags......it's a family car." :D:

Similar for me, she knows I'm a sports car type a guy so I told her the RX8 was a family friendly sports car. It is better than most that's for sure...lol.

Yeah, they have come a long way... See the attached "pimped out" 92 SC... :eyetwitch

a dark blue Sky was following me on my way to happy hour today, i thought it was one beautiful car, much sexier than the already great looking solstice. I ended up missing my turn and kept driving for another 10 minutes and staring at it in my rear view mirror before i realized I missed the turn.

is the sky even out yet? are you sure that wasn't something else? come to think of it, to say you're driving around in a blue sky might be kind of fun to do lol :D:

edit: I've been looking at other possible cars if my 8 gets totaled following my rear end collision and I saw the Sky on their site, it's ah-ight, but still a Saturn..ugh

That one photo is not of the Aura - it's the Outlook.

Yeah, they have come a long way... See the attached "pimped out" 92 SC... :eyetwitch

wow great fitment there.

OK so the Aura/Outlook whatever it may be is a cheap Trailblazer and the Sky is a cheap Solstice. Both are American. Who cares?

The Sky is an expensive Solstice. Either way, you're exactly right - who cares that they're American cars? If it's well built and fun to drive, I don't care if it comes from Korea. I'd buy one, but the thing holding me back is absurdly small trunk - not even 2 sq. ft.! I'm not looking for a whole lot of storage, but geez! At least let me get ONE bag of groceries in it!







(No, I know. No need to point out that he was saying something else)

(No, I know. No need to point out that he was saying something else)

i was so looking foward to it to.. dam

i was so looking foward to it to.. dam
:mdrmed:

OK so the Aura/Outlook whatever it may be is a cheap Trailblazer and the Sky is a cheap Solstice. Both are American. Who cares?

Yeah, that's fair and unbias... :rolleyes:

OK so the Aura/Outlook whatever it may be is a cheap Trailblazer and the Sky is a cheap Solstice. Both are American. Who cares?

Quite a few people with informed opinions rather than those who let "popular opinion" cloud their judgement. JDM YO!!! :rolleyes:

The Sky and Solstice are identical in every respect except looks. The Sky base price is actually higher than the Solstice, as some Solstice options are standard on the Sky.


The Aura is a sedan...

Quite a few people with informed opinions rather than those who let "popular opinion" cloud their judgement. JDM YO!!! :rolleyes:

The Sky and Solstice are identical in every respect except looks. The Sky base price is actually higher than the Solstice, as some Solstice options are standard on the Sky.


The Aura is a sedan...

Trust me I'm not a JDM freak. I've owned a Pontiac before. complete crap. my entire family owns GM and Ford and I am the one who does not so that is how i form my opinions. My mom's 2005 Escape seat belt split randomly. Grandmom's Buick Park Ave's pillars in the back randomly fell off. I personally wouldn't trust an American car again. I had so many issues with that Grand AM. My suitemate here at college has a 2006 Explorer and the interior is so crappy you can literally push the dash all the way down. Now given the only non-American cars I've owned have been Mazda's. Mazda 3 and RX-8. The build quality of the econobox 3 was much better than my dad's new Deville. I have friends who have other imports not just Jap cars and I would take them any day over GM/Ford/Daimler Chrysler. Plus who wants to pay for an over priced pos car that will just fall apart in a few years.

Bascho...these^ are the people you have to convince, must of us are reasonable and give the US auto companies the benefit of the doubt.

I can't get to upset really, it's Ford and GM's own fault for 3 decades worth of poor quality products.

But, I for one wouldn't mind giving you guys a chance to sell me a car...I hope things truly have changed for Ford and GM.

Bascho...these^ are the people you have to convince, must of us are reasonable and give the US auto companies the benefit of the doubt.

I can't get to upset really, it's Ford and GM's own fault for 3 decades worth of poor quality products.

But, I for one wouldn't mind giving you guys a chance to sell me a car...I hope things truly have changed for Ford and GM.


I have had just as many problems with my Japanese built RX8 as some others have had with their domestic products. Some people will never be convinced because they don't want to be. I can understand that mentality, because I have thought long and hard recently about ever getting another Mazda product. Everyone has had bad experiences with every car made in every country......it's how you let those experiences alter your view of one company or another that is worrisome. Convincing people like you is much easier because you are open minded. Even though you purchased a foreign car, you are not against purchasing a domestic one.......you just haven't found the domestic that you really love. I hope my experience with my RX8 will not sour my opinion of Mazda.....but it will be a conscience effort.

I hope others that consistently bash the domestics will one day open their eyes and minds and forget the problems with one or two products they may have had 10 years ago. Also, don't put on the Japanese blinders......not everything Japanese is perfect.......your attitude may be enabling you to ignore problems you would bash a domestic product for.

Yeah, those who bash domestics just come across as incredibly ignorant. :spank:

The RX-8 is not exactly a pillar of reliability.

What turns me off about american built cars is usually the interior. 95% of american car interiors are built with the worst quality plastics and horribly pieced together. There alltogether ugly. The plastics comment is accurate, my dad works for American Polymers, a large supplier to the companies that make the parts, and he said that the compounds used by major japanese manufacturers are of a much higher quality. Just go to a cadillac dealer and sit in a 06 DTS or whatever, its absolute crap, the dash and the door panels all creak when you push on them, you can bend everything, its just sad. And this is a cadillac, a word we use to show superiority. Brett's (ndtechie09) old Mazda3 is built inside like it should cost 3 times as much, compared to say a ford focus. Have you actually seen the interior of one of these? compared to what you can get with the same money from toyota and mazda, its just sad. I dont like american cars for the sole fact that the majority has poorly built interiors as well as very bland styling. And the small fact that you can get a much more desirable car for the same price from a japenese or german manufacturer. (o and there only good for straight line performance... jeremy clarkson fan, what?)

Yeah, those who bash domestics just come across as incredibly ignorant. :spank:

The RX-8 is not exactly a pillar of reliability.

The RX8 is kinda alone here, considering its unique engine. But we dont exactly have a rotaary powered american car now do we?

Sure, American cars have a stigma for using crappy materials. I'll give you that. But there's no way I'm going to let that keep me away from looking at new American cars. Your examples of the DTS and the Focus are both examples of the previous generation of American cars. Sure, there's still going to be crap out there even in this new generation, but you can definitely see that they're turning things around. Chances are I'd be plenty happy driving around in a Sky or even an Aura if I needed that kind of car. Their exteriors are getting pretty nice and their interiors have gotten 1000x better. There's no real reason to nix a car maker simply based on its nation's reputation - if you do that, you're only hurting yourself. Great cars come out of all countries, if you choose to limit your perspective it's nobody's loss but your own.

Sure, American cars have a stigma for using crappy materials. I'll give you that. But there's no way I'm going to let that keep me away from looking at new American cars. Your examples of the DTS and the Focus are both examples of the previous generation of American cars. Sure, there's still going to be crap out there even in this new generation, but you can definitely see that they're turning things around. Chances are I'd be plenty happy driving around in a Sky or even an Aura if I needed that kind of car. Their exteriors are getting pretty nice and their interiors have gotten 1000x better. There's no real reason to nix a car maker simply based on its nation's reputation - if you do that, you're only hurting yourself. Great cars come out of all countries, if you choose to limit your perspective it's nobody's loss but your own.


Couldn't have stated it better myself :D:

Convincing people like you is much easier because you are open minded. Even though you purchased a foreign car, you are not against purchasing a domestic one.......you just haven't found the domestic that you really love.

YUP, I tried and researched the heck out of all the options…the RX8 won, and I’ve been happy every since. Now, if Ford brought out the Iosis (something like that ) concept (actually does look RX8ish) made it RWD, stuck the Mustang’s V8 in it and sell it for 25K…I’d be ALL OVER THAT. It looks GREAT and has bigger back seats than my 8…but, I know I’d be trading in the sweet balance and handling of my 8.

By the way, why in the WORLD is this car not going into production? It’s REALLY good looking and would make a HELL of a performance sadan for Ford.

Also, don't put on the Japanese blinders......not everything Japanese is perfect.......your attitude may be enabling you to ignore problems you would bash a domestic product for.

Yup, people do this all the time. My 8 has had some minor little issues, but I don’t worry about them because they have been minor. Unless my 8 leaves me stranded or the door panels fall off…a minor recall, updates to the PCM, squeaky breaks, etc…don’t make me banish Mazda for eternity.

Don't stress over the simple stuff...

My rotary has been great, while it’s only been 8.5K miles.

I dont like american cars for the sole fact that the majority has poorly built interiors…

Did you see the pic’s?

…as well as very bland styling.

Did you see the pic’s?

While I know they are just pictures, they look like they are everything but what you are complaining about. Furhtermore, Honda and Toyota aint really the style leaders in the industry…bland or normal looking sadan’s is all they produce.

If anything, historically US auto companies have made some VERY good looking cars while yes I agree their interior or overall quality has been bad in the past 3 decades they seem to have turned a corner and it’s evident with their up and coming products.

To just push all their products into the “crap” pail…is unfair and short sited. With all of this said, it’s your taste and your money…so spend it where you like. Trust me, I’m not trying to sell you…again it’s your taste and money.

I hope what ever you get, you love it and treat it great.

Sure, American cars have a stigma for using crappy materials. I'll give you that. But there's no way I'm going to let that keep me away from looking at new American cars. Your examples of the DTS and the Focus are both examples of the previous generation of American cars. Sure, there's still going to be crap out there even in this new generation, but you can definitely see that they're turning things around. Chances are I'd be plenty happy driving around in a Sky or even an Aura if I needed that kind of car. Their exteriors are getting pretty nice and their interiors have gotten 1000x better. There's no real reason to nix a car maker simply based on its nation's reputation - if you do that, you're only hurting yourself. Great cars come out of all countries, if you choose to limit your perspective it's nobody's loss but your own.

As much as i want to believe you, cause your probably right, when i think about buying a car made here, i cant get past the feeling that i would be getting ripped off. Not to bash on the regular sky and solstice, but if you read the technical data in C&D's first test of the solstice VS the MX5, the solstices' engine is meh... scroll down to the acceleration tests for both cars and compare them. Not a biggie, but theres something to be said about our engine development over as well i guess.
Solstice (http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9967/pontiac-solstice-page3.html)
MX-5 (http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9968/mazda-mx-5-page3.html)

Solstice : Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 14.2s
MX-5: Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 8.7s

btw, im not trying to start a fight here, just discussing.

Quite a few people with informed opinions rather than those who let "popular opinion" cloud their judgement. JDM YO!!! :rolleyes:

The Sky and Solstice are identical in every respect except looks. The Sky base price is actually higher than the Solstice, as some Solstice options are standard on the Sky.


The Aura is a sedan...


I'm not so sure about your comment on the sky/solstice. My understanding is the sky shares it platform with the Vauxhall Vx220 which is an insanely bad ass car sold overseas by the English/Birtish/whatever Gm equivalent Vauxhall/Opel etc. I don't think the Solstice shares the same platform as the VX but I could be wrong, if it does then anyone who doubts either of these cars needs to see the Top Gear episode where Clarkson puts the Vauxhall Vx220 through its paces, if the Solstice/Sky share any kind of relation then I'd say you can't go wrong with either one of them.
This whole "American" this "foreign" that thing is hysterical, is there really a such a thing as a true American or Japanese (or even German) car anymore? For those that haven't seen a round map of the globe yet (ya know, as opposed to a flat one) there's a REALLY big world out there and cars are built all over the place now. So that "built ford tough like a rock " pickemup truck you see might be made in Mexico or Canada now, not here. There's a huge Toyota plant in S. Antonio that makes Tundra's, is that still a Japanese truck? get used to it, things are global now :wavey:

Solstice : Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 14.2s
MX-5: Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 8.7s

Different gearing means? Honestly...I'd take the high gearing GM puts in their cars top gear over Mazda's useless top gear. I'll take significantly better fuel economy over going 30-50 in so and so.

Let me correct that, in the MX5 it's not that bad but my wife's 6 and my 8 are in way to high rpm at top gear on the highway which hurts fuel economy significantly. While yes, I understand Mazda is trying to give it enough "ummmfff" in it's top gear so you don't have to lower a gear to go faster.

I could be wrong...but I don't see how the 30-50 = GM products suck. Push them both and they are pretty close in speed while the MX5 is more refined and a better handler or balanced car.

Enter into the mix looks, and the MX5 get's handed it's walking papers (in my opinion). With the up and comming 260HP, the MX5 will lose the speed battle also unless Mazda shows up in the line for HP, unlike how they normally give it..."just enough".

One more thing, I'm not saying cars from Japan are worse or that the US car companies are making cars just as good in terms of quality...I just don't agree that US cars are complete crap either.

They are behind...but not by much, and overall in terms of looks they actually make better looking cars...at least with the run of the mill family sadan. Even the new Toyota Camary...does not impress me very much, it's an odd styled car to be honest while the engine sure is going to kick ass.

I'd take a Saturn Aura over pretty much every family sadan out there right now, unless they think they can price it more than it's competitors. That...would be a mistake.

As much as i want to believe you, cause your probably right, when i think about buying a car made here, i cant get past the feeling that i would be getting ripped off. Not to bash on the regular sky and solstice, but if you read the technical data in C&D's first test of the solstice VS the MX5, the solstices' engine is meh... scroll down to the acceleration tests for both cars and compare them. Not a biggie, but theres something to be said about our engine development over as well i guess.
Solstice (http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9967/pontiac-solstice-page3.html)
MX-5 (http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9968/mazda-mx-5-page3.html)

Solstice : Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 14.2s
MX-5: Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 8.7s

btw, im not trying to start a fight here, just discussing.

Well, I never said American cars were the greatest or anything, I'm simply stating that it's silly to limit your experiences based on country of origin. You better believe I'll be out test driving a Solstice and probably a couple other American cars when my lease is up just to see what the have to offer. Who knows, if they impress me, they might get me to sign the papers.

Either way, that's not so much an engine problem as it is just really tall gearing on the top gear, which is actually a good thing. I'd rather have that last gear reserved for economy - I can downshift if I need any appreciable power.

I'm not so sure about your comment on the sky/solstice. My understanding is the sky shares it platform with the Vauxhall Vx220 which is an insanely bad ass car sold overseas by the English/Birtish/whatever Gm equivalent Vauxhall/Opel etc. I don't think the Solstice shares the same platform as the VX but I could be wrong, if it does then anyone who doubts either of these cars needs to see the Top Gear episode where Clarkson puts the Vauxhall Vx220 through its paces, if the Solstice/Sky share any kind of relation then I'd say you can't go wrong with either one of them.


Nope the Sky and Solstice are definately both Kappa chassis cars. The Vauxhall was a mid-engined car. The new version of the Vaux will also be a Kappa car, I believe. It's no coincidence that the Sky bears a remarkable exterior resemblence to the Vx, though.

Well, I never said American cars were the greatest or anything, I'm simply stating that it's silly to limit your experiences based on country of origin.

Well i just want to make it clear that im not limiting my experiences because of the country of origin, but becuase of my experiences with the quality of the cars that come out of that country. (uncles C5 vette.. econobox interior, parents Yukon.. same, and its always falling apart.. etc) I got nothing against the USA, i live here! I just think we should let other people make our cars... ok thats my last post in here.

The Vauxhall was a mid-.......... version of the Vaux will also.........resemblence to the Vx, though.

What, did you get tired of spelling Vauxhall everytime and kept shortening it? haha
:mdrmed:

I don't think anyone was saying to go out and buy American, but rather that failing to even look at American cars because of an old stigma is foolish. Japanese and German cars tend to appeal to me more, but that doesn't mean they're all I'm going to focus on. Like I said before, if Daewoo/Kia/Hyundai came out with a car that impressed me, I'd definitely go look at it. It's just kind of ridiculous to totally ignore an entire country's worth of cars just because they USED to be crap. Times change.

Hell, Hondas and Toyotas USED to be crap as well but they righted their ship, just as the American companies are trying to do. I can also say from personal experience that new American cars are far better in both build quality and materials than even the best older models. It's not going to necessarily happen overnight, but they're headed in the right direction.

there, its gone. it was a joke but if you want to get serious about it just PM me. But in response to what you just mentioned, I dont agree that they "USED" to be crap. My entire family will only buy american cars (ugh), and the ones that we have are all relatively new.. and (I think) they are crap now. But then again thats my opinion.

Fair enough. It's just that a lot of people refuse to look at cars just because they are/aren't American, Japanese, Korean, German, etc. and it's just foolish. To have your own opinion is fine - if you think they're still crap, then that's your opinion. You've seen them and decided for yourself, nothing wrong with that. Just riding on blind faith that they're going to be bad before seeing them is the foolish part.

The RX8 is kinda alone here, considering its unique engine. But we dont exactly have a rotaary powered american car now do we?

Well, if an American automaker did produce a rotary engine, it would probably be bashed for it's terrible fuel economy and a lack of torque. :rock:

And, if the Sky had Mazda badges on it, you can't tell me that you wouldn't be all over it.

And, if the Sky had Mazda badges on it, you can't tell me that you wouldn't be all over it.

Its gonna take a little more then mazda badges to get me to buy it, im trying to express the fact that im not looking at just the maker or contry of origin.

Ok its time my biased foreign opinion chime in while im sitting on the shitter, getting rid of some domestic MacDonald’s food:

I'm not aware of a magazine comparo of the Mx-5 to the Sky so I’ll use the Solstice to express my point.

The Mx-5 trounced the Solstice in nearly every performance oriented test in that comparo and I’m willing to bet after driving an mx-5 its alot more enjoyable and fun to drive then a solstice will ever be.

Now enter the Solstice GXP and the Sky Redline, ok now what are they really? The Solstice GXP far as I know only has a turbo slapped on with no additional modifications to the drivetrain, while the Redline has added a LSD and some chassis reinforcements; for all that you get a sticker that will probably be 5-8k above the base models.

The cars now will out perform an rx-8 in acceleration and some people may even like the chrome accents that riddle the exterior of the sky :puke:

But ask yourself would you want one of these cars over the rx-8, or even a much slower mx-5?

For me, I don't think I could ever get rid of the sigma that 1 year after purchase the cars windows won't go down or this piece of vinyl is ripping yada yada. If you've sat in an mx-5 you'll notice a very nice feel to the interior, superior to the 8's IMHO, that something I don't think I could expect the sky or solstice to ever have.

Ignoring the domestic stigma, I can't shake the feeling that these cars are nothing but the sum of their parts, something like the NEON SRT being great on paper but still being Neon afterwards. They just aren't memorable enough don't have automotive historical significance that would make me want them.

P.S. Let’s not get into resale values of domestics.

This thread is more about how the US auto makers seem to be waking up (Saturn to be specific), than...would I buy it over this or that. Remember that...also, history is good...but holding back cars or limiting them because they have none is a bit unfair.

Every car made started with NO history at all, it's up to GM to make the Solstice into something worthy of having a history.

No...performance wise it's not better than the MX-5, but I'd take it's looks over the MX-5 anyday. Also...it performs pretty good regardless of what the MX-5 is doing. It might have pushed the MX-5...but the MX-5 slapped it back, lol.

These cars are not perfect and I agree there is room to improve, but what I think we are watching is an advancement of the US auto maker world...at least, they seem to be headed in the right direction.

As for this car over the RX8...remember, some of us need those backs seats and wouldn't have looked at a 350Z, S2000, MX-5, or Solstice because of their 2 seat configuration.

One thing I don't agree with...is that they are pricing these cars (well, let's see when the final numbers come in (performance per $$) "IT SEEMS" a little too high. Their history of poor quality...dose not justify the high price tag.

But again...we shall see, I don't have the final numbers to tell yet.

I'm still impressed that they came out with such good looking car and at the entry level it's an affordable sports cars.

A 2.2L 200HP I-4 would have been better as the entry level engine...

The most important aspect of the Solstice/Sky is that it is a brand new vehicle and already compares very well to the MX5. The MX5 did beat the Solstice in many of the performance tests....but by very small margins. When the GXP/Redline versions come out, the MX5 will be killed in every performance category.

FYI, Bob Lutz recently announced that basically, Saturn will become Opel of US; the whole Saturn line will eventually be replaced by Opel cars, wearing Saturn badges of course.

The Mx-5 trounced the Solstice in nearly every performance oriented test in that comparo

What comparo?

I've read it was much MUCH closer than "trounced"

FYI, Bob Lutz recently announced that basically, Saturn will become Opel of US; the whole Saturn line will eventually be replaced by Opel cars, wearing Saturn badges of course.

There is some truth to this already with some of their past cars (i'm thinking some of the L & S series). Not to mention the Sky Redline and Open GT are the very same car.

I'm driving one right now! My 2000 Cadillac Catera!

Precursor to the CTS. And, it was a rebadged/Americanized Opel.

Prior to 2000, they had engine problems, driveline problems, electronics problems, interior problems, etc.... It's that fine German engineering! 2000 and above, they had fixed the majority of the problems, and it became a fine little sedan. However, the evil reputation followed it until its demise.

My Catera runs great, handles great, can cruise at highway speed +++, has a really nice 200hp 3L engine, and is quiet and comfortable for the daily grind. However, it has had it's share of little problems, as most high milage daily drivers will (65K and rolling).

Basic for me is, every manufacturer has things it does right (Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Ford Pickup, etc), and things they do wrong (Toyota MR2, Honda Element, Ford ZX2, Pontiac Aztek).

The American manufacturers are slowly getting better, and hopefully they will stop doing design in a vacuum and actually listen to the people that view their concept cars and use their regular cars for future ideas (WTF were they thinking with the Pontiac Aztek? We were at a state fair where GM was showing it off, and there were hundreds (yes, hundreds) of people walking away actually laughing and joking at the gawdawful ugliness of the thing).

We who live in the real world are still ignored by the 'design by committee' folks at some manufacturers, many of whom seem to be either blind, tactile-impaired, or afraid to voice a real opinion, and unable to understand and interpret feedback from the people that may actually purchase their product.

FYI, Bob Lutz recently announced that basically, Saturn will become Opel of US; the whole Saturn line will eventually be replaced by Opel cars, wearing Saturn badges of course.

Yep. The redesign of the ION that was about to be released was canceled and a rebadged Opel Astra will be brought in.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11090/news-saturn-ion-to-be-replaced-by-opel-astra-in-2007.html

The most important aspect of the Solstice/Sky is that it is a brand new vehicle and already compares very well to the MX5. The MX5 did beat the Solstice in many of the performance tests....but by very small margins. When the GXP/Redline versions come out, the MX5 will be killed in every performance category.

True, but they're gonna be a lot more $$$ over the mx-5. The mazdaspeed mx5 will probably destroy them, but if straight line performance is your thing in a proper sports car (silly I know) then throw a turbo in the mx-5 for less than the price of a skolstice Redline/gxp.

True, but they're gonna be a lot more $$$ over the mx-5. The mazdaspeed mx5 will probably destroy them, but if straight line performance is your thing in a proper sports car (silly I know) then throw a turbo in the mx-5 for less than the price of a skolstice Redline/gxp.


I don't see how you're going to pull that off, considering the price of an Mx-5, unless you're buying a base model. In which case you lose 1 of the 3 redeeming aspects of the Miata...the interior. The others being weight and handling.

Let's wait and see who destroys who in the MS vs RL/GXP comparos. And who's aftermarket is better (we already know what the answer to this one will be...GM's). Mazda's recent forced induction attempts haven't been all that impressive...

And lose your warranty on a brand new car.... no thanks

It can probably be easily said that the MX-5 is more refined, has better build quality, better handling dynamics, and eventually better resale value than the Solstice due mostly to the fact that Mazda has over 17 more years experience and development time building this type of car.

I've already read that the GM cars were already rushed to the market. If GM would continue to make small refinements to further development these cars as opposed to waiting around for the sales surge to fall, holding the same design for another 5 years, slapping incentives and rebates on them, then comming out with a totaly different design--then they would probably be pretty decent.

Ick. It looks too much like an Aztek to me. I'm not fond of the phlegm color either.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75289

How dare you!?!??!?!??!?!

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/brandnewday/Pontiac-Aztek-2002.jpg

Ick. It looks too much like an Aztek to me. I'm not fond of the phlegm color either.

Looks more like a 2 door Cx-7 to me. Or maybe they both look like an Aztek :). Either way the Saturn looks the best of the 3.

http://www.allaguida.it/wp-galleryo/mazda-cx-7/mazda_cx7-h.jpg