http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/10987/ford-cuts-five-hundred-sedan-production.html

Ouch!

But many of us have said so... the car is uninspiring and needs replacement. This should also be a sign to Ford PD that they need to get their heads out of their asses... quit with the lame-ass excuses and do better with the Fusion. You know what I mean... give the V6 a MT option... get rid of that ugly ass, parts bin steering wheel... at least on the top model... and lastly bring out a SVT version (but make it better than the Mazdaspeed 6... maybe a hot version of the upcoming bigger V6 and AWD... most importantly make the car LIGHTER).

Why is it so difficult for American auto companies to just copy the Japanese?

I'm not asking for originality, GM or Ford.

I'll buy your wares if you just give me something close to parity. I'd...[gasp]...even prefer to buy your wares if given a choice!

The Chrysler 300 based sedans came out the same time the 500 did. They are a success, build it and they will come. Ford & GM's do not need to copy Japanese design, their problems are management.

GM at least is realizing that they need a RWD family sadan. Also, I’m with all you guys also…DON’T FORCE ME INTO A FREAKEN AUTOMATIC tranny! The 500 is not bad looking, it has a good amount of space inside, good headroom, and pretty good quality...yet, what makes it special?

It's just not a matter of...make sure it grades well, it's a matter of make sure it stirs something inside of people. Style or the looks of a car are very important along with quality and performance, the 500 is a good car...but Ford and GM need to be in the business of making GREAT cars if they want to make a comeback. It's not enough to compete...YOU HAVE TO LEAD!!!!!!

the 500 could have been so much better... but as usual the US manufactures cheap out, refuse to listen to the market and crank out some half baked POS...again.

When will they learn.....

Geez I wish I could have a US manufacturer exec job....put no thought into my work AT ALL, cut corners from here to timbuktu, get paid more than the law should allow and still have a job waiting for me in the morning.

the ford line up is the very definition of "C" student. Sure, it'll get the job done (getting from a to b), but there are much better options out there. although, i'd take a 500 or a fusion over a caliber. i saw one the other day, and it is fugly.

I fit four people with room to spare, inside the trunk of a Ford 500.

:)

In American corporations, bonus' are all about cutting costs.

Ask anyone trapped in one. There some that are different, but when an MBA takes over....

the ford line up is the very definition of "C" student. Sure, it'll get the job done (getting from a to b), but there are much better options out there.

Somebody has to make rental cars

the ford line up is the very definition of "C" student.

Nice analogy….but hey, what’s wrong with a C student…huh, lol. But it’s true, when I gave half assed effort I’d get C’s and B’s…when I actually cared, I was a A’s and B’s student.

So…your right, the US auto companies have been C- students for a long long time now. Now, the nerds from Japan and Korea are getting the pretty girls and nice jobs…lol.

In American corporations, bonus' are all about cutting costs.

Yup! Who cares about quality, employee moral, and the long term effects of doing things half assed…as long as the current CEO or Exec can get a hefty bonus at the end of the year for saving cost’s mainly by firing employee’s and cutting corners.

Just like society in general…who cares about tomorrow’s consequences as long as today I get what I want. So, the question becomes…do you think it’s a cultural problem in the US? Not that every US company is like that…but too many are exactly like that.

Wow...I think I'm the Off topic king of this website, lol.

yar...thread jack thread be low, says I.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74509&stc=1

Rrrrrrrr :wink2:

the ford line up is the very definition of "C" student. Sure, it'll get the job done (getting from a to b), but there are much better options out there. although, i'd take a 500 or a fusion over a caliber. i saw one the other day, and it is fugly.


I agree that the 500 and Fusion are decent looking cars.

People constantly complain that the 500 is a boring looking car. Boring compared to what? The Accord? The Camry?

The 500 is better looking than both.

Ford and GM created a lot of problems for themselves, but now, they can't seem to catch any breaks.

I agree that the 500 and Fusion are decent looking cars.

i think you misread me. i didn't say the 500 and fusion are decent looking cars. i said they are better looking than the caliber (which is like saying they are better looking than the aztek).

I think the issue isn't as much design (although most domestic models are rather subpar), it's reliability. American cars still have a reputation for having problems in their 2nd or 3rd year that a Japanese car would have in their 7th or 8th. Which would you rather have? A car that gives you crap within 3 years or one that will in 7?

The other problem is nearly hit on the head by rx8wannahave....the corporate execs make out like bandits even when company performance is an all-time low. If a Japanese company does poorly, the execs all take pay cuts because it's a poor reflection on them and their reputation. They also are known for flyiing in coach or business class when traveling, not first. The other related problem is that the domestic companies screwed themselves with huge, bloated benefit/retirement plans with their workers. I'm not anti-union, I realize that everyone needs security when they retire. But there's such a thing as moderation...if you keep grabbing every single cent out of the pot your company goes belly-up.

^Preach it brother...

Ford makes a sedan called the 500? Must be great - I never even noticed. :rolleyes:

I can't believe it has lasted this long. I seriously think I've seen two of them on the road and I've never seen ANY advertising for it. Both times I saw one driving around I thought "What the hell is that?" I consider myself a car guy and if I'm so uneducated on the car then John Q. Public is NEVER going to take notice.

WAKE UP FORD - BRING YOUR EUROPEAN LINEUP OVER HERE :mad:

Yeah I know what you mean. I think I've seen the 500 a grand total of maybe 3 times since it was released...one time being at the Portland Auto Show :p:

It's not that it's a bad car, it just doesn't stick out in any way. Just an overall unexceptional car. I'm thinking this has more to do with Ford still continuing it's focus on the truck/suv segment since that's been it's bread and butter for so long. Unfortunately like the other domestics, they're slow to realize that the market has changed and that there's a preference for smaller cars now. All these gas price hikes have really screwed them.

WAKE UP FORD - BRING YOUR EUROPEAN LINEUP OVER HERE

YES PLEASE!

It's not that it's a bad car, it just doesn't stick out in any way.

Yeah, they tried the Toyota formula but forgot that they have a long history of quality while they have had a long 3 decades of sub-par quality. Toyota...even them, know they better start putting some passion in their cars.

Like you said...it's not a bad car, very roomy inside, but it's like yesterdays news...no one cares.

Poor Bascho...where is he? LOL

Honestly, it's a shame because you can tell it has MUCH better quality than the car it replaced but a sub par engine matched with a sub par look = so what.

Anyone else ever think it looks like a V-dub Passat, the previous gen?

Surprisingly, the 500 looked a lot like the Chrysler 300, which is a big success. Domestic automakers are still paying for the mistakes they made in the 70's and 80's in terms of quality perception.

It didn't look anything like a Chrysler 300.

It didn't look anything like a Chrysler 300.

agreed. if anything, it looks like a shortened, squished crown vic...which has visual styling that appeals to people in their 80s.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74527&stc=1

Where's Bacho to tell us how great these fords are? :spank:

Ford puts out boring average middle road cars. The problem with that ideaology is that toyota and honda do exactly the same thing, but with better quality, Kia and hyundai do for cheaper and better warranties, and chrysler does it by making better looking cars.

Ford made decent cars that excelled at nothing. Other then the mustang, and only the GT at that, ford doesn't make a car that leads in any catagory. When you think dependable/reliable you got honda/toyota. Value goes to the koreans. If your looking for good looks you look to Mazda, chrysler, even pontiacs looks better then fords. There are other companies that have better warranties, more power, more comfort, more high tech, more lux, better handling, more sports car. When you ask people what they most want in a car, whatever thier answer is, ford does not lead the pact in anything.

So, what possible reason would anyone have to actually buy a ford?

To be fair, Honda actually makes some reasonably sharp looking cars - and ONE fun one (S2k). Toyota is in some serious trouble if they keep with their boring lineup. I, for one, don't even consider Toyota anymore when I'm thinking of new cars and I've been noticing that more and more people I talk to are doing the same. Making an absolutely bulletproof car can only take you so far when your entire line lacks inspiration or passion. I want a car that invigorates me, not one that reminds me of a kitchen appliance.

It didn't look anything like a Chrysler 300.

I 2nd that...where did that comparison come from?

Yeah...Toyota is a quality car builder...and...ummm, that's about it. lol

yar...thread jack thread be low, says I.
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74509&stc=1

Arrgh matey, there be some thread jacking...

Where's Bacho to tell us how great these fords are? :spank:

Ford puts out boring average middle road cars. The problem with that ideaology is that toyota and honda do exactly the same thing, but with better quality, Kia and hyundai do for cheaper and better warranties, and chrysler does it by making better looking cars.

Ford made decent cars that excelled at nothing. Other then the mustang, and only the GT at that, ford doesn't make a car that leads in any catagory. When you think dependable/reliable you got honda/toyota. Value goes to the koreans. If your looking for good looks you look to Mazda, chrysler, even pontiacs looks better then fords. There are other companies that have better warranties, more power, more comfort, more high tech, more lux, better handling, more sports car. When you ask people what they most want in a car, whatever thier answer is, ford does not lead the pact in anything.

So, what possible reason would anyone have to actually buy a ford?


BING!!! And we have a winner!

This is what I have been trying to get across to bascho (and others on this forum) about the current Ford lineup. Fords aren't bad, but they aren't really good either. There just isn't any overwhelming reason to buy one over a competitor. Fusion vs Mazda6? Mazda6... I can get it in stick and the interior (especially steering wheel) looks better. Or even a Legacy GT... 5 year warranty. Mustang GT 3yr/30,000mi. There is no Lincoln anyone whould buy over a Lexus, Infiniti or BMW. Once in awhile Ford decides to try to make a go at it... Lincoln LS sedan, but end up falling short. Not because they can't do it, not only because of cutting costs (which has something to do with it), but because frankly they are being dumb. They end up trying to beat what's on the market now instead of what's getting ready to come out. So their all new model is already stale as soon as it hits the lot.

Ford needs to be daring. In this market, trying to be safe and make "just enough" sales with a "safe" design doesn't cut it... you just end up losing more money. Either break out with daring designs or just give up and close up shop.

To be fair, Honda actually makes some reasonably sharp looking cars - and ONE fun one (S2k). Toyota is in some serious trouble if they keep with their boring lineup. I, for one, don't even consider Toyota anymore when I'm thinking of new cars and I've been noticing that more and more people I talk to are doing the same. Making an absolutely bulletproof car can only take you so far when your entire line lacks inspiration or passion. I want a car that invigorates me, not one that reminds me of a kitchen appliance.

If you say so. :rolleyes: Everything Honda makes now looks like ass to me. The S2000 and RSX are the only passable cars... I don't LIKE them, but I don't hate them. The new Civic... ewww, ESPECIALLY the bi-level dash. ... and every freaking car Honda makes is FWD... even Acura... even though that market is CLEARLY RWD/AWD only! Even Toyota figured that one out... and like you said... reliable, but boring cars.

I've been saying just that... if Toyota doesn't wake up and build cars that are more fun to drive and look more exciting... they're going to end up like GM eventually. My family has had great experiences with Toyotas, but frankly they don't build any cars that I'd even consider. IS300? auto only and it costs as much as a BMW. IS250? Underpowered and expensive.... BMW again. New Camry is ugly, but at least a little more daring than the old. Carolla... zzzz. No more MR-S, no more Celica, no more Supra. Wow... Toyota really builds a GREAT line up. :rolleyes:

If you say so. :rolleyes: Everything Honda makes now looks like ass to me. The S2000 and RSX are the only passable cars... I don't LIKE them, but I don't hate them. The new Civic... ewww, ESPECIALLY the bi-level dash. ... and every freaking car Honda makes is FWD... even Acura... even though that market is CLEARLY RWD/AWD only! Even Toyota figured that one out... and like you said... reliable, but boring cars.

I've been saying just that... if Toyota doesn't wake up and build cars that are more fun to drive and look more exciting... they're going to end up like GM eventually. My family has had great experiences with Toyotas, but frankly they don't build any cars that I'd even consider. IS300? auto only and it costs as much as a BMW. IS250? Underpowered and expensive.... BMW again. New Camry is ugly, but at least a little more daring than the old. Carolla... zzzz. No more MR-S, no more Celica, no more Supra. Wow... Toyota really builds a GREAT line up. :rolleyes:

With the new camry, I think Toyota is starting to realize their problem with boring cars now, they introduce this quite early, as a 07 model in early 06, that is saying something, IMO, they just cant change their styling in one model year, I predict in the coming years we'll see more exciting cars from Toyota. Toyota probably wont end up like GM, they'll fix it well before anything happens.

And I dont know where Honda is trying to go, perhaps following Toyota's steps, their cars are getting more ugly and boring generation by generation(civic + accord), we already have Toyota, we dont need a second Toyota.

Kinda off topic, but one thing I feel is that I aint excited by the new skylines and supra, i have no idea why they'd share platforms and engines on these cars, why not just make them UNIque, like Honda NSX (rumour V10)

The big 3 in japan should really look at what Mazda is doing, and come up with ways to counter them with all the money they have. That'd benefit us a lot as consumers. *well i am a mazda fan, so lets hope they never realize this*

Back on topic, I saw the Ford 500 for the 1st time yesterday, had to look hard to see what car it was, then saw the small 500 badge, it was silver and i thought it looked quite nice from behind, never saw the front, but its ugly in pic. How old is this car?(assuming 1 year, as i never saw any last year) Why would they spend the money to put it on the road and end the production a year after. Even tho they cut corners and stuff, its still rather costly to put a design on the drawing board to something on the road!, what the hack are they doing, they just dont understand what the market want.
________
HotAlisa4U (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/HotAlisa4U)

Oh and what would the buyers of the 500 think? Buy a brand new car and the next thing you know is they are stopping production on it because its Boring? How are they going to repair the vehicle down the road?, warrenty? It'd suck to be them. and this stuff really hurt the reputation of the company. And who bought the 500? I am assuming they are mostly the pro-american cars people, the domestic car companys are slowly giving away their customers to foreign companies, making it TOO EASY for Toyota, Honda, Nissan.... Maybe that is why we see so many camrys and accords even tho they are so boring, but hey, its better than all the domestic cars.
________
Ocean View Condominium (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

GM and Ford are not investing in product for when gasoline will be permanently $3 or $3.50 per gallon, which will be sooner than we all care to acknowledge.

I drove a Ford 500 for almost two weeks last summer as a rental, on a vacation. It was the LX, with leather seats (always a wise choice in July), cruise control, a not totally gutless engine, split-zone climate control in the front seat (useless complexity, to me).

It was ... a car. Obviously Ford in the way things were laid out, pretty clearly intended to compete with the Camry / Accord in terms of size, styling, and so forth. Someone claimed it was Ford's answer to the Lexus, but, eh, only for someone who cannot afford a Lexus...Steering was actually sloppier than in the Crown Victoria, gas mileage was OK but since this trip consisted of driving around some little states near the Atlantic there was a lot of stop and go so I can't really make an accurate statement about mileage.

One notable thing: no keyhole in the trunk lid. The trunk could be opened by an easily noticed button next to the headlight control, or by the remote on the key fob, but there was no keyhole. The lock inside just didn't have any "key guts". Also there was no ashtray or cigar lighter, but that's pretty much standard now.

So I drove the car for a week, and pretty much my reaction was "Eh". It wasn't better or worse to any great extent than a comparable Toyota or Honda would have been, it was clearly a better car than the Taurus/Sable in some ways, but i wouldn't want to buy one. It is, honestly, a boring car, and it's a midsize boring car to boot. If I'm going to drive a boring car, it ought to hold more people and stuff than a Ford 500. If I'm going to drive a mid/small car, it ought to be much more interesting...and now that the 06's are finally on the lot I am preparing to make my move.

For the observant, yeah I have driven a Crown Victoria. Since Ford put rack and pinion steering in them back in 2003 (catching up with other automakers only 30 years late) the Vic has become a much better car to drive. The CV offers seats for 3 children and two adults plus a gigantic amount of baggage; the trunk actually contains more cubic feet than the cargo area of many SUV's. Because it has lower CG and can be obtained with a suspension upgrade, the Vic can handle far better than many SUV's, especially the Escalade/Navigator class. I've been behind those barges on the freeway in a strong crosswind, and watching them change lanes is always interesting. The Vic doesn't do that, it stays put on the road.

Yah, the Crown Vic is a boring car, but it holds a lot of people and stuff, gets 25 MPG on the highway at 75-80 MPH, is extremely quiet due to the newer glass and has very good crashworthiness. Ok, it's a cop car/taxicab, but sometimes that is a good thing. And it doesn't have one of those annoyiing sliding doors for the passengers.

I'm here how everyone......sorry, I was sick and didn't visit the boards through the weekend. My my this thread is interesting.......and here is why. I know that most of the people my age (late 20's early 30's) think the Five Hundred is really boring and under powered......but we are not the target market. If you look at the average age of the Camry, Five Hundred and 300 customer, they are mid-50's. Even if Ford built the baddest-looking RWD full-sized sedan to hit the market ever......I wouldn't buy one. Hey, the 300 is a great looking car......for my dad to buy. I know a lot of the people on this board rip Ford and the Five Hundred a new ass for power and looks......but most are RX8 owners like me that aren't buying full-sized sedans anyway. Ford cutting production has little to do with sales for the Five Hundred (which have been stronger than expected). Remember, Chrysler only has the 300.....Ford has the Five Hundred and Montego (add the sales together).

Ford has plans for the Five Hundred and Montego to keep the 50 somethings excited. For those of us in the different generation (younger), Ford has the Fusion, Milan, Zephyr which have been selling like crazy. Ford never intended to sell as many Five Hundreds as they did Taurus.....that is why they replaced the Taurus with two different cars (to split the sedan market). Although I think the Five Hundred is under powered and low on styling, it is definitely high on comfort and quality.

BING!!! And we have a winner!

This is what I have been trying to get across to bascho (and others on this forum) about the current Ford lineup. Fords aren't bad, but they aren't really good either. There just isn't any overwhelming reason to buy one over a competitor. Fusion vs Mazda6? Mazda6... I can get it in stick and the interior (especially steering wheel) looks better. Or even a Legacy GT... 5 year warranty. Mustang GT 3yr/30,000mi. There is no Lincoln anyone whould buy over a Lexus, Infiniti or BMW. Once in awhile Ford decides to try to make a go at it... Lincoln LS sedan, but end up falling short. Not because they can't do it, not only because of cutting costs (which has something to do with it), but because frankly they are being dumb. They end up trying to beat what's on the market now instead of what's getting ready to come out. So their all new model is already stale as soon as it hits the lot.

Ford needs to be daring. In this market, trying to be safe and make "just enough" sales with a "safe" design doesn't cut it... you just end up losing more money. Either break out with daring designs or just give up and close up shop.


It is very hard to build cars that will not hurt your other brands.....this is something all automotive companies are really starting to think about...brand identity. Ford can't build cars that hurt Volvo sales or Mazda sales.....they have to appeal to different tastes. Your Volvo customer can't be a Ford customer.....otherwise you have not defined your brand effectively. No ONE car can be everything to everyone.......SOMEONE will always complain about something. Add too much power and fuel economy sucks......get great gas mileage and it's a dog to drive. Make it roomy so that 5 adults can fit along with 5 sets of golf clubs and you get people complaining its too big. Ask 50-something's what they like the looks to be and you get the 30-something's bashing the bland looks. Make it look edgy and get the 60-something's refusing to buy saying it's too gaudy. It's easy to sit back and second guess every automakers products.......so why don't you go out a design the next hit? You obviously 'know' what everyone wants!! (not directed to you Japan8...."you" is being used for anyone who thinks they can do it better) Remember, a new car line can cost hundreds of millions in investment.....make sure you don't eliminate/isolate your target audience with the design. Oh, and by the way, you have to guess at what your target audience will want 3-4 years from now.....because that is how long it takes to go from a design to an actual production level car.

I have yet to see anyone get everything right. The 300 looks great but the quality sucks ass just like every other Chrysler product. The Camry has a great history.....but the car is ugly. Toyota could take a shit in a box and sell 400,000 of them based on their reputation right now. The Accord is a quality automobile.....but again BORING!. I honestly don't blame Ford, Toyota and Honda for boring sedans.....the people that buy these cars are boring.

Ford cutting production has little to do with sales for the Five Hundred (which have been stronger than expected).

Wrong-o. Did you read the C&D article?

Ford says it is trimming back production of the Ford Five Hundred because of reduced demand, The Associated Press reported.

In March, Ford sold 7,726 Five Hundreds, down 17.6 percent from the 9,375 sold in March 2005.

The move is expected to cause layoffs at Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant, which produces the Five Hundred, the Mercury Montego and Ford Freestyle crossover utility vehicle, which share the same basic platform, the story said.


So slowing sales and layoffs = stronger than expected sales?

Wrong-o. Did you read the C&D article?

Yeah, all five sentences.


So slowing sales and layoffs = stronger than expected sales?


Since when does a car rag know what is actually driving an auto company's decision? They report what they know which is usually very little. I trust their reviews of vehicles tested and that is about it. C&D does not have anyone working in my office that I am aware of. Does C&D have a clue about Ford's plans for 2008-2010??? NO. Hey guess what? I do, but I can't tell you. I tell you guys everthing I can when I can safely tell you without risk to my employment. C&D doesn't have a clue why the plant is cutting production. They use a recent sales decline as speculation of Ford's reasoning......but that is all it is, speculation.

I 2nd that...where did that comparison come from?

I dunno, I thought it looked more like the 300 than it does. The things that got me where the elevated driving position, and the higher stance, similar to what the 300 has. Maybe it SHOULD have looked more like the 300.

My paren'ts really like their 500. I think that says something about the target demographic for that car.

Since when does a car rag know what is actually driving an auto company's decision? They report what they know which is usually very little. I trust their reviews of vehicles tested and that is about it. C&D does not have anyone working in my office that I am aware of. Does C&D have a clue about Ford's plans for 2008-2010??? NO. Hey guess what? I do, but I can't tell you. I tell you guys everthing I can when I can safely tell you without risk to my employment. C&D doesn't have a clue why the plant is cutting production. They use a recent sales decline as speculation of Ford's reasoning......but that is all it is, speculation.

So, no layoffs at the Chicago assembly plant?

It is very hard to build cars that will not hurt your other brands.....this is something all automotive companies are really starting to think about...brand identity. Ford can't build cars that hurt Volvo sales or Mazda sales.....they have to appeal to different tastes. Your Volvo customer can't be a Ford customer.....otherwise you have not defined your brand effectively. No ONE car can be everything to everyone.......SOMEONE will always complain about something. Add too much power and fuel economy sucks......get great gas mileage and it's a dog to drive. Make it roomy so that 5 adults can fit along with 5 sets of golf clubs and you get people complaining its too big. Ask 50-something's what they like the looks to be and you get the 30-something's bashing the bland looks. Make it look edgy and get the 60-something's refusing to buy saying it's too gaudy. It's easy to sit back and second guess every automakers products.......so why don't you go out a design the next hit? You obviously 'know' what everyone wants!! (not directed to you Japan8...."you" is being used for anyone who thinks they can do it better) Remember, a new car line can cost hundreds of millions in investment.....make sure you don't eliminate/isolate your target audience with the design. Oh, and by the way, you have to guess at what your target audience will want 3-4 years from now.....because that is how long it takes to go from a design to an actual production level car.

I'll give you that on brand identity and not wanting to end up with your various nameplates competiting directly with each other. Fair enough. But ALL of Ford GROUP isn't producing anything that can REALLY compete with BMW, Infiniti, MB, Lexus. Nothing in the Lincoln lineup, nothing in the Volvo lineup, nothing in the Ford lineup... the closest they come is Jaguar, but those are more expensive, everyone still worries about their reliability (although Ford has improved this greatly since taking over), and frankly the sedans look like ass. Not to mention that they perform more like a MB than a BMW. Volvo... *sigh*... the S40 is FWD. Adding AWD and the turbo engine pushes the price to about $40k MSRP, but the weany ass car only has 218hp?! This is supposed to compete with the BMW 330, Lexus IS350 and Infiniti G35?!

Styling and target audience... come on bascho. MB's new S class is pretty hot... the shape has greatly changed from the stodgy old look to sleek and elegant. Even Toyota recognizes the need to add some spice to their cars with the new Camry... introduced EARLY says even more about this. GM has spiced up the Caddie lineup... hell they even has the "V" version to compete with the "M" and such. Lincoln doesn't have anything tuned by SVT, much less even a base car that can really even compete with them! BMW is doing damn well, so I don7t want to hear any freaking bean counters try and tell me that sporty cars/sports sedans/etc. don't sell enough... that there's no money in it. That is just plain BS. Just because Ford's efforts to date have been lackluster or failed doesn't mean jackshit. That's plain old faulty logic. An inferior or crappy product can easily produce those results as well.

I can spend all day picking apart and critiquing Ford's lineup. In the end it still comes down to their strategy thus far sucks. They need to fire the MBA's and supposed industry pundits... do like NASA with their open competition... tap into the many good people out there who aren't part of the automotive industrial complex, so they'd be ignored, but actually have some great ideas... different ones because they have a different view on things. Look... Ford needs to define what each brand is supposed to be, their competitor and target market. What competes with Mercedes Benz and Lexus? What competes with BMW and Infiniti and Audi? They're all the same market? No one in PD, marketing... any decision maker at Ford had better not say that. Anyone who does should be fired on the spot. You know as well as I do that they are very different cars. Luxury cars vs luxury SPORTS sedans. The market segment is clearly RWD and even the more luxurious cars like MB still have some element of sportiness to them. To continue on... what in all of the Ford lineup competes with the M3 and G35c? WRX, WRX STI, and Evo? GTI? What's up with the cheapass warranty? 3yr/30,000mi? WTF?! Americans are complaining about not just things like styling and power of Amreicans cars... their big beef is reliability. Suer longer warranties cost more money, but what is the point of a shorter warranty's money savings if no one buys your cars and you go Chapter 11? Ford needs to SHOW (not say... actions speak louder than words) that they have improved and stand behind their cars. match Subaru and VW's warranty. On the BMW's they have the full service included warranty and this is what Ford should be including on ther competitor brand cars. The issue isn't JUST with the Ford nameplate, but Ford Group as a whole.


I have yet to see anyone get everything right. The 300 looks great but the quality sucks ass just like every other Chrysler product. The Camry has a great history.....but the car is ugly. Toyota could take a shit in a box and sell 400,000 of them based on their reputation right now. The Accord is a quality automobile.....but again BORING!. I honestly don't blame Ford, Toyota and Honda for boring sedans.....the people that buy these cars are boring.

Yeah... Chrysler quality and reliability :cwm27: Don't forget that the only Chryslers with a MT are the Viper, SRT-4 and trucks. The damn 300, magnum, Charger...just about everything only comes with AT/CVT.

I agree with you about Toyota. On just their reputation they can sell a pile of shit, tell people it's lemon and everyone would not only buy it, but also comment about how wonderful it smells. IMHO, Honda is the same... boring ass cars, but their reliability is highly overrated. However they have a great reputation from their past cars so they can sell any pile of shit they want and everyone buys it up.... even if the car is in the shop constantly, or requires expensive maintenance every 6 months after 60k mi, they think it's so damn reliable and great and American cars are shit. :hahano:

So, no layoffs at the Chicago assembly plant?

Hello, 30,000 hourly jobs will be eliminated by 2008......every plant is laying people off. I can tell you that no one is being layed off at the Chicago Assy Plant due to decreased March sales of the Five Hundred. Most of the layoffs are through attrition (retirees not being replaced). There are more people working in Assy Plants then are actually needed (thank the UAW for that). Don't worry about the Five Hundred's future.......Ford is very happy with this car. I would love to post some of the internal mailings we get about sales performance and conquest customers......but it's not public info so I cannot.

Just don't believe everything you read in any car rag......except for the reviews of the test cars since that is their only source of first-hand info.

Styling and target audience... come on bascho. MB's new S class is pretty hot... the shape has greatly changed from the stodgy old look to sleek and elegant. Even Toyota recognizes the need to add some spice to their cars with the new Camry... introduced EARLY says even more about this. GM has spiced up the Caddie lineup... hell they even has the "V" version to compete with the "M" and such. Lincoln doesn't have anything tuned by SVT, much less even a base car that can really even compete with them! BMW is doing damn well, so I don7t want to hear any freaking bean counters try and tell me that sporty cars/sports sedans/etc. don't sell enough... that there's no money in it. That is just plain BS. Just because Ford's efforts to date have been lackluster or failed doesn't mean jackshit. That's plain old faulty logic. An inferior or crappy product can easily produce those results as well.


Japan8, I agree with you on almost everything you say.....but Ford cannot be a Mercedes Benz and nor to they want to. Mercedes is a tiny company in terms of US market share. I think Ford would rather be a Toyota then a Mercedes. Don't get me wrong, Mercedes makes some unbelieveable products......I would love to own many of them.......but they are a niche. How many people can afford a $75-$120K car? I definitely think that Jaguar is lost and needs direction......but Volvo is better then ever. Think back 10 years and describe a Volvo ......................
.................................................. .................................................. .....................
exactly, an ugly, boxy, boring sedan.....but it was safe. Look at their product
line-up now.

I am not saying Ford has done a good job at brand identity.....in fact, it's a big part of the 'Way Forward Plan". Over the last 20 years Ford, Mercury and Lincoln has all suffered severe brand identity loss. I do think that Ford is starting to 'get-it'.........you have not seen the products in the pipeline like I have. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr/Edge/MKX are just the tip of the ice berg. 'Patience young grass hoppa'......Ford is just starting to flex it's 100 years of automotive muscle.

For those of us in the different generation (younger), Ford has the Fusion, Milan, Zephyr which have been selling like crazy.

tangent...the woman in the Milan commercials is hot!

tangent...the woman in the Milan commercials is hot!


YEAH SHE IS!!!!!!

American auto manufactures have really been screwing up lately. They have been making poor quality vehicles and are lagging far behind foreign manufactures in design and development.

They have also been offering way too many incentives to get people to buy their vehicles, ie. employee pricing and rebates. This worked for a short while, but it saturated the market with their vehicles and also drove down the resale value of the vehicles already owned by customers. This caused many brand loyal customers to switch to foreign brands, me included. Instead of concentrating on offering "affordable" and less appealing vehicles to the public, they need to concentrate on quality and current trends in style.

American auto manufactures have been overly dependent on the baby boomer gereration who where attracted to models which arent't desirable to the young men and women of today.

If the American auto industry starts making cars that are both good looking and high quality they should be able to get ahead of the game once again.

Maybe, they should just get rid of all those old geezers on their management teams.

American auto manufactures have really been screwing up lately. They have been making poor quality vehicles and are lagging far behind foreign manufactures in design and development.

They have also been offering way too many incentives to get people to buy their vehicles, ie. employee pricing and rebates. This worked for a short while, but it saturated the market with their vehicles and also drove down the resale value of the vehicles already owned by customers. This caused many brand loyal customers to switch to foreign brands, me included. Instead of concentrating on offering "affordable" and less appealing vehicles to the public, they need to concentrate on quality and current trends in style.

American auto manufactures have been overly dependent on the baby boomer gereration who where attracted to models which arent't desirable to the young men and women of today.

If the American auto industry starts making cars that are both good looking and high quality they should be able to get ahead of the game once again.

Maybe, they should just get rid of all those old geezers on their management teams.


I think your generalizations of American auto companies is off by about a decade. The products coming our of Ford, GM and DCX are of the highest quality and best designs ever produced by the domestic companies. I agree that the former 'Big 3' have had many quality problems in the past......but that is in the past. The difference between the highest quality cars and the average quality ones in current production is very small. I am not saying that Toyota is not still the best in quality......but their lead is smaller and smaller every year. The greatest thing Toyota has going is a history of quality and strong public perception. The domestic 'Big 3' now have the quality (which gets better every year).....but they have no history of quality.....thus low public perception. It takes a long time to change peoples' perceptions......but it can happen.

I think your generalizations of American auto companies is off by about a decade. The products coming our of Ford, GM and DCX are of the highest quality and best designs ever produced by the domestic companies. I agree that the former 'Big 3' have had many quality problems in the past......but that is in the past. The difference between the highest quality cars and the average quality ones in current production is very small. I am not saying that Toyota is not still the best in quality......but their lead is smaller and smaller every year. The greatest thing Toyota has going is a history of quality and strong public perception. The domestic 'Big 3' now have the quality (which gets better every year).....but they have no history of quality.....thus low public perception. It takes a long time to change peoples' perceptions......but it can happen.


Ok, not to bust balls, but could you clarify exactly what your trying to say.

In post 37 you say "The 300 looks great but the quality sucks ass just like every other Chrysler product.", but in the above post you say "The products coming our of Ford, GM and DCX are of the highest quality and best designs ever produced by the domestic companies. "

So, are they the best or do they suck ass, or are they just "the best" by only American standards, and "suck ass" compared to everyone else?

Ok, not to bust balls, but could you clarify exactly what your trying to say.

In post 37 you say "The 300 looks great but the quality sucks ass just like every other Chrysler product.", but in the above post you say "The products coming our of Ford, GM and DCX are of the highest quality and best designs ever produced by the domestic companies. "

So, are they the best or do they suck ass, or are they just "the best" by only American standards, and "suck ass" compared to everyone else?


I said that the quality is the best they've ever had.......but for a lot of Chrysler products that is not saying very much.....which is why I say they suck ass. What that really says is that 10-15 years ago a Chrysler product was 'down right shit'.....but they have gotten better.....the 'sucks ass' level. In another couple of years they will be at the 'barely ok' level and then maybe a few years later they will be at the 'decent' level.


down right shit ----> sucks ass ----> barely ok -----> decent ----> good

Japan8, I agree with you on almost everything you say.....but Ford cannot be a Mercedes Benz and nor to they want to. Mercedes is a tiny company in terms of US market share. I think Ford would rather be a Toyota then a Mercedes. Don't get me wrong, Mercedes makes some unbelieveable products......I would love to own many of them.......but they are a niche. How many people can afford a $75-$120K car? I definitely think that Jaguar is lost and needs direction......but Volvo is better then ever. Think back 10 years and describe a Volvo ......................
.................................................. .................................................. .....................
exactly, an ugly, boxy, boring sedan.....but it was safe. Look at their product
line-up now.

I am not saying Ford has done a good job at brand identity.....in fact, it's a big part of the 'Way Forward Plan". Over the last 20 years Ford, Mercury and Lincoln has all suffered severe brand identity loss. I do think that Ford is starting to 'get-it'.........you have not seen the products in the pipeline like I have. The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr/Edge/MKX are just the tip of the ice berg. 'Patience young grass hoppa'......Ford is just starting to flex it's 100 years of automotive muscle.

I think you missed what I was trying to say. Ford doesn't have to be a MB... but one of their other nameplates SHOULD be... Jaguar in my opinion. I suppose Lincoln COULD be a more baby boomer targeted car, but that seems dumb considering where Caddie is now and the fact that Ford needs to target their future as baby boomers are on their way out now. So if Lincoln is going for Caddie... which is going for BMW (meaning that Lincolns are designed to compete with BMW)... I'm not sure what to do with Volvo. Maybe a Subaru competitor? (this may be something.. they are unusual cars like Subaru...) Either way... the S40 is a POS. I agree completely about Volvo's design... their looks have come a long way since Ford took over, but value... an S40 with 218hp loaded for $40k?! Who is stupid enough to buy it? Only a Ford or Volvo loyalist. Even the IS250 is a better deal that that!

I have little doubt that Ford is working to flex thier 100 years of experience. I just wonder if it is enough... or more like being used effectively. I'd tell people that Ford stocks are worth buying as a long term investment. They are cheap and dropping, but Ford is doing well in other markets and has plenty of cash. If they really are getting their head out of their ass, then in 2008-2010-ish they'll be looking much better. Too bad I can't say the same about GM... with all of their own liabilities, plus that from Delphi... things are looking REALLY grim there.

BTW... i agree completely with bascho on Chrysler. Never owned one myself, but have known several who have. POS is only the tip of the iceberg for those cars. If any of the Ford haters think that Ford is bad, go pickup a Chrysler and tell me what you think after 100k mi.

I think you missed what I was trying to say. Ford doesn't have to be a MB... but one of their other nameplates SHOULD be... Jaguar in my opinion. I suppose Lincoln COULD be a more baby boomer targeted car, but that seems dumb considering where Caddie is now and the fact that Ford needs to target their future as baby boomers are on their way out now. So if Lincoln is going for Caddie... which is going for BMW (meaning that Lincolns are designed to compete with BMW)... I'm not sure what to do with Volvo. Maybe a Subaru competitor? (this may be something.. they are unusual cars like Subaru...) Either way... the S40 is a POS. I agree completely about Volvo's design... their looks have come a long way since Ford took over, but value... an S40 with 218hp loaded for $40k?! Who is stupid enough to buy it? Only a Ford or Volvo loyalist. Even the IS250 is a better deal that that!

I have little doubt that Ford is working to flex thier 100 years of experience. I just wonder if it is enough... or more like being used effectively. I'd tell people that Ford stocks are worth buying as a long term investment. They are cheap and dropping, but Ford is doing well in other markets and has plenty of cash. If they really are getting their head out of their ass, then in 2008-2010-ish they'll be looking much better. Too bad I can't say the same about GM... with all of their own liabilities, plus that from Delphi... things are looking REALLY grim there.


I don't disagree that Jaguar needs to focus on high-end luxury and give up on entry level versions......that may help them compete with MB......but I think they already do compete with MB. Between Jag and Aston Martin, Ford can compete with the offerings of MB at most price levels. Jag and Aston are British luxury where MB and BWM are German luxury......it's all a matter of taste. I agree with you about the S40's price being extremely high when loaded with all available options......but that is because Volvo has a strong following of yuppies right now. Those affluent yuppies will gladly pay extra to have a car that the less fortunate cannot afford. Of all Ford's brands, I think Volvo is the one that really knows their market and customer. They have a strong sense of brand identity IMO. Volvo doesn't need to change to compete with others.....they are perceived as the safest vehicles on the road......that is their niche.

Caddie had a great brand resurrection in the last few years.....and Lincoln needs to do the same.....and they will. Like I said earlier, I can't discuss future products at this time......but Lincoln will be back on top of American Luxury.

Too bad I can't say the same about GM... with all of their own liabilities, plus that from Delphi... things are looking REALLY grim there.

Well, with all due respect to our buddy Bascho (and I honestly hope the best for Ford and GM) I think GM is ahead of the game on them in terms of quality, style and the engines they provide. Bascho works for Ford and is loyal to them...as he should be, but I don't work for neither but look at it as a customer.

Honestly...(and Bascho knows I'm not a Ford hater) I like GM's lineup of cars better than Ford's at this time. Go check out the thread I started about Saturn, I mean they are building some nice looking (inside and out) and apparent good quality products with the up and comming Aura and their new SUV.

While GM has it's hare of issues and things it will have to fix ASAP, I think they are actually headed in the right direction a bit sooner than Ford.

Now, like we all say, if Ford would simply allow some of their Euro flavor to hit our shores then it would be a better battle with GM...let alone everyone else.

Time will tell, but with cars like the G6, Solstice, Sky, Suburban/Taho/etc SUV, Aura, Outlook (Saturn's SUV, I forget the name), C6, Z06, Lacross and the other Buick, and yes even the Impala (which will soon be RWD as it should be), I think GM is ahead of Ford right now.

I've seen and sat in these cars, and driven some and I must say GM is doing the best job it's done in decades. Honestly, their interior's are looking and feeling more like Audi and less like Avis rent a car stuff. No...it's not Audi like yet, but it's pretty close in my opinion.

Again...with all that said, I hope the best for Ford and Chevy because I'd like to spend my money on a US brand...but last time I checked (when I got my 8) they let me down big time.

^then again...getting a Mazda feeds Ford, so I guess I do have a USish product.

lol

Well, with all due respect to our buddy Bascho (and I honestly hope the best for Ford and GM) I think GM is ahead of the game on them in terms of quality, style and the engines they provide. Bascho works for Ford and is loyal to them...as he should be, but I don't work for neither but look at it as a customer.

Honestly...(and Bascho knows I'm not a Ford hater) I like GM's lineup of cars better than Ford's at this time. Go check out the thread I started about Saturn, I mean they are building some nice looking (inside and out) and apparent good quality products with the up and comming Aura and their new SUV.

While GM has it's hare of issues and things it will have to fix ASAP, I think they are actually headed in the right direction a bit sooner than Ford.

Now, like we all say, if Ford would simply allow some of their Euro flavor to hit our shores then it would be a better battle with GM...let alone everyone else.

Time will tell, but with cars like the G6, Solstice, Sky, Suburban/Taho/etc SUV, Aura, Outlook (Saturn's SUV, I forget the name), C6, Z06, Lacross and the other Buick, and yes even the Impala (which will soon be RWD as it should be), I think GM is ahead of Ford right now.

I've seen and sat in these cars, and driven some and I must say GM is doing the best job it's done in decades. Honestly, their interior's are looking and feeling more like Audi and less like Avis rent a car stuff. No...it's not Audi like yet, but it's pretty close in my opinion.

Again...with all that said, I hope the best for Ford and Chevy because I'd like to spend my money on a US brand...but last time I checked (when I got my 8) they let me down big time.


Can't disagree with you on this buddy. Even though I work for Ford, I am still an auto enthusiest......meaning I love everything automotive. I definitely think that GM has a strong line-up and that the BS with Delphi could only hurt the progress they've made over the last few years. GM has some fresh products with great powertrains and their quality is really good......not far from Honda IMO. Ford has as much to learn from GM as they do from Toyota. GM's problems are the same as all the domestics......public perception. I am not saying they didn't deserve their reputation.......too many years of neglect IMO. However, enough is enough.....the public has to open their minds to the changes the domestics have made. Too many people dismiss the domestic automakers products as inferior without even driving them.

Wake up people!!! The domestic automakers are not careless, hopeless entities.....they are people like you. No one wants to lose their job because they failed and their company went under. The folks that work in the auto industry don't live in a vacuum.......they understand what you want better then you know yourself. No company can operate today in the way they did in the 80's......information has changed that. The domestics have planned to push away from dependence on SUV's for years because of fuel prices......it's just that the prices escalated waaay faster then they had anticipated and their newer fuel efficient products were not ready.......but they are now and over the next 2 years you'll see what I mean. Just look at last years offerings......how many brand new vehicles did the domestic automakers bring to the market collectively? How many more are coming this year? These products were not just developed last year.....they have been in development for 2-3 years.

Too many people dismiss the domestic automakers products as inferior without even driving them.


Yeah...you know, the haters....Ford & GM = trash without even giving it a 2nd thought, some people act like scorned women let me tell you...lol.

But, Ford and GM only have themselves to blame while I think it's time we forgive them and try their products.

Ford is coming out with their new SUV based on the CX-7's same skeleton and let me tell you I really like that SUV. I think Ford will have a hit on their hands with it and while they might be behind a bit...they will fix things soon, I hope.

Cars I look forward to is the up and coming Camaro, Solstice GXP and it’s Saturn brother, and RWD Impala…along with the already mentioned Ford SUV and all our desired stronger RX8.

2 days ago I filled up my 8 and it cost me $40…I hope things change but I doubt it will and I just hope I don’t have to be forced out of my 8 one day because of gas. Right now it’s painful only because of what we all were use to but if it keeps going up things will have to change.

Just a quick correction. Although the Ford Edge and CX-7 look similar. They are not based on the same architecture. Ironically, the CX-9 IS a stretched version of the Edge.

^^ The best part of the Edge and MKX is the Panoramic glass roof. You will not believe you are in a Ford product when you see this thing in real life......it is awesome. I would hate to have to replace it....big $$$. Also the Edge and MKX have adaptive headlamps standard.....adaptive headlamps are those that turn based on inputs from the steering system. I really like the Edge and MKX and think that they are going to be strong competitors in their market segments.

^me too, nice job Ford!

ford five hundred is pimp. it's got mass leg room, AC, stereo, good gas mileage, decent power, and a huge ass trunk. what's not to like in a chillin' sedan? why's every car gotta be stylin' and head turning? hell, how many of you rx8 owners have actually tracked your rx8 at a race track? at least i know of one ford 500 that owned laguna seca for a lap. too bad it was driven by a douche.

ford five hundred is pimp. it's got mass leg room, AC, stereo, good gas mileage, decent power, and a huge ass trunk. what's not to like in a chillin' sedan? It's not 1976. Touting AC and stereo as features is like touting that the car has 4 wheels. Good gas mileage and decent power??? Does not even come close to the V6 Camry - 268hp and 31/22 mpg (vs 203hp and 29/21 mpg for the 500). Heck, the new Hyundai Azera has 263hp, gets 28/19, is bigger, and has a 10 year warranty. As soon as the 500 came out, it was already near the bottom in its class.

why's every car gotta be stylin' and head turning? They don't. But who wants to drive a rental car? Oh, ford owners.

So what's the deal with the Ford 500 vs the Ford Fusion? I don't understand why they have two very similiar sedans in production.

Heck, the new Hyundai Azera........ is bigger

I find that hard to believe.....do you have some proof?

So what's the deal with the Ford 500 vs the Ford Fusion? I don't understand why they have two very similiar sedans in production.


It's about age of target customer. Ford caters the Five Hundred to the over 40 crowd and the Fusion to the under 40 crowd. It's very hard to have one vehicle cater to both market segments because the two generations are very different in what they want out of a vehicle.

Does not even come close to the V6 Camry - 268hp and 31/22 mpg (vs 203hp and 29/21 mpg for the 500). Heck, the new Hyundai Azera has 263hp, gets 28/19, is bigger, and has a 10 year warranty. As soon as the 500 came out, it was already near the bottom in its class.

How much is the extra is the AWD option on the Camry and Azera?.......oh that's right, they don't have that option. By way even though the Camry and Azera have more horsepower.......that has only been a complaint by the younger generations. Most folks over 40 feel the power is just fine.....and the fuel economy is competitive. I don't expect someone with an STi to understand a vehicle like the Five Hundred because they are exact opposites.

I find that hard to believe.....do you have some proof?

Azera on the left, 500 on the right
Front legroom 1,110mm (43.7") 1,049mm (41.3")
Rear legroom 970mm (38.2") 1,049mm (41.3")
Front headroom 1,021mm (40.2") 1,001mm (39.4")
Rear headroom 970mm (38.2") 983mm (38.7")
Front hiproom 1,410mm (55.5") 1,364mm (53.7")
Rear hiproom 1,400mm (55.1") 1,364mm (53.7")
Front shoulder room 1,471mm (57.9") 1,468mm (57.8")
Rear shoulder room 1,450mm (57.1") 1,463mm (57.6")

Azera has more room upfront, 500 has more room in back.

How much is the extra is the AWD option on the Camry and Azera?.......oh that's right, they don't have that option. By way even though the Camry and Azera have more horsepower.......that has only been a complaint by the younger generations. Most folks over 40 feel the power is just fine.....and the fuel economy is competitive. I don't expect someone with an STi to understand a vehicle like the Five Hundred because they are exact opposites.

Do you both to read the thread, or do you just read things how you want to read them? I was responding to the poster ahead of me who was quoting that the 500 gets good gas mileage and has decent power. The Camry gets better mileage and has more power.

If you wanted to buy a good AWD car, why in the world would you buy a Ford???

If you wanted to buy a good AWD car, why in the world would you buy a Ford???


What full-size AWD vehicle can you buy for less than $30K other then the Five Hundred. Also, the AWD system used is identical to that of the Volvo vehicles.....it is a very good drivetrain.

Azera on the left, 500 on the right
Front legroom 1,110mm (43.7") 1,049mm (41.3")
Rear legroom 970mm (38.2") 1,049mm (41.3")
Front headroom 1,021mm (40.2") 1,001mm (39.4")
Rear headroom 970mm (38.2") 983mm (38.7")
Front hiproom 1,410mm (55.5") 1,364mm (53.7")
Rear hiproom 1,400mm (55.1") 1,364mm (53.7")
Front shoulder room 1,471mm (57.9") 1,468mm (57.8")
Rear shoulder room 1,450mm (57.1") 1,463mm (57.6")

Azera has more room upfront, 500 has more room in back.


Why didn't you include trunk space? That is an important factor to potential customers of full-sized sedans......and an important factor in total volume of the vehicle.

There is a reason why the Ford 500 is ending production!, you cant really defend this car, the facts are all over the 1st post of the thread!
________
WildCATblond cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/WildCATblond)

Why didn't you include trunk space? That is an important factor to potential customers of full-sized sedans......and an important factor in total volume of the vehicle.

#1 because the guy I was responding to was talking about front legroom and
#2 the site I was looking at (cars.com) didn't have trunk space listed

What full-size AWD vehicle can you buy for less than $30K other then the Five Hundred. Also, the AWD system used is identical to that of the Volvo vehicles.....it is a very good drivetrain.

75% of the Five Hundreds that Ford will build will be FWD, not AWD. It makes more sense to look at the FWD aspects of the car, not AWD.

As for your question, the Chrysler 300 offers a very nice (much nicer than the Ford) full size AWD vehicle for $30,500.

#1 because the guy I was responding to was talking about front legroom and
#2 the site I was looking at (cars.com) didn't have trunk space listed


Fair enough

There is a reason why the Ford 500 is ending production!, you cant really defend this car, the facts are all over the 1st post of the thread!


Ending production??? WTF are you talking about? No one said Ford was ending production of the Five Hundred.

75% of the Five Hundreds that Ford will build will be FWD, not AWD. It makes more sense to look at the FWD aspects of the car, not AWD.

As for your question, the Chrysler 300 offers a very nice (much nicer than the Ford) full size AWD vehicle for $30,500.

" Sales of AWD Five Hundred, Freestyle and Montego have represented
25 percent, 55 percent and 35 percent of each vehicle line, respectively --
higher than initially anticipated." source: Ford Motor Company






"Ford's Affordability Advantage
Affordability is a key driver in Ford's growth in AWD vehicles sales. AWD
models of the Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego are priced as much as
$5,400 less than the least expensive AWD-powered large sedan, while the Ford
Freestyle is more than $3,100 less than the closest AWD-equipped crossover
utility vehicle.


Ford Five Hundred SE AWD $24,595
Chrysler 300 Touring AWD $29,995 +$5,400
Volkswagen Passat GLX 4Motion $33,190 +$8,595

Mercury Montego Luxury AWD $26,795
Audi A6 3.2 Quattro $41,074 +$14,279
Infiniti M35 3.5 AWD $43,010 +$16,215
Acura RL 3.5 SH-AWD $49,470 +$22,675

Ford Freestyle SE AWD $27,470
Buick Rendezvous CX AWD $30,655 +$3,185
Chrysler Pacifica Touring AWD $31,605 +$4,135 "

source: Ford Motor Company