Exactly what segment of the market is Mazda targetting here? I can't quite figure it out, it's not going to pull pure performance enthusiasts away from their cars, it's not going to tempt the usual import crowd, it's out of the price range of most younger buyers, it doesn't have that mid life crisis draw that other sportscars out there have... It's a total niche' car that is going to be sold to fans of Mazda and the rotary engine fans with the ocassional female buyer that thinks the car is just so neat or cute then toss in the people that just fall in love with the looks of the car and that alone is enough for them. I don't think that makes for what is going to be a successful car. Maybe Mazda isn't expecting to sell a lot and do realize it's just a niche car, I doubt there are many 30k Japanese performance cars that fly off the lot.

The Mazda 6 has so many things going for it and is a great practical car that looks nice, handles well, is priced right, and has plenty of accolades from the press. But no one in the states is buying the damn thing, the sales I believe were less than half what Mazda was projecting for the first year of production.

What are your thoughts on where the RX-8 fits into the market and what other cars do you see in it's category? Lastly, do you think it will be a big enough seller for Mazda for them to continue production of the car and perhaps offer Mazdaspeed versions of it in the states.

Ike

it's for the people that want a sports car, but they have families and thus cannot buy a two seater, and rotary enthusiats (like me)

And Me.

So it's for rotary enthusiasts that have families and want sports cars with 4 doors? C'mon guys surely you can do better than that, I think Mazda would sell about 20 cars if that was their only market :p

And me - someone who has their kids grown and gone, but wants 4-door for the occasional passengers, wants a sports car look unlike the sedan styling, wants performance mixed with great handling, and is very fun to drive. The fact that it's a rotary is icing on the cake to me. :D

for me the RX badge is all i need to want it, i love rotaries, and mazda has never slacked off in designing the rest of the car

i think the idea of key market is quite flawed anyways, look at the honda element it was designed and marketed for the car for teenagers (i love them the interior was designed with the goal of being able to clean it with a hose), and i've seen nothing but 40+ year old's driving them

The market can be unpredictable... Are you serious about the Element? Honda is really out of touch if they actually thought teenagers and the younger market wouldn't hate it. So what other cars do you put in the same class with the RX-8, you're only answering the first part of the question, just curious on other peoples takes are.

I will be cross shopping it with the S2K, Evo, STI, and 350Z, but I really don't see those as being in the same class as the RX-8. Any other ideas of cars you think people will be cross shopping the RX-8 with?


Ike

I chose the RX-8 because:

1) a friend had a 3rd gen. RX-7 and introduced me to rotary engines (I've always appreciated interesting, innovative design),

2) with four seats and OK mileage, it is a reasonably practical car for all-around driving,

3) it is an outstandingly fun car to drive,

4) I was shocked to discover that I could afford it.

I don't know if it's a single-niche car, because it seems to appeal to people coming from several different directions.

it looks AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and then there is soooo much more to it....just drive it and you'll see.



ohhh, and i can fit my two kids in the back....

and its not a minivan! (that is the wifes vehicle that i have to drive occasionally)

quote from IkeWRX: "So it's for rotary enthusiasts that have families and want sports cars with 4 doors? C'mon guys surely you can do better than that, I think Mazda would sell about 20 cars if that was their only market."


But that is their market... this car is meant for people who need to have four doors, but still want some semblance of performance and looks. In other words, people who want 4 doors and dont want another sedan. I dont think they are just targeting the rotary crowd, cause I for one know nothing of the rotary. Rather, this is the rotary powered vehicle that Mazda wants to sell to the masses.

We have to remember that the RX-8 is not the replacement for the RX-7. The RX-7 is a pure sports car for the enthusiast driver. 2 doors, weighs about 2600 lbs, suspension as stiff as you can get, in other words no compromises.

This is not the mission of the RX-8. In fact, as other online reviewers have said that Mazda has created a "new" category, the "4 door sports car". Whether people will want a foor door sports car remains to be seen.

In my case, this looks to be the perfect car. I considered the Infinity G35 sedan, but did not like the profile. I wanted the G35 Coupe, but I need the 4 doors. The RX-8 looks to fill what I need.

Sure, there are faster 4 doors for the price with far better performance like the Subaru STI and the Mitsubish Evo, but the STI and Evo looks dont appeal to me. They have killer performance rivalling the V8 muscle cars, but their interiors are spartan. There exteriors are based off of their economy car brethren, except they are given much beefier tires and suspension, AWD and turbo charged to the kazoo. Excellent track/auto-cross/rally cars. Again, these cars are targetting different folks, those who put performance above everything else. Does that make these cars bad? Of course not! No Way! Again, just a different target.

The same can be said for the RX-8... a different audience.

Hopefully a lot of RX-8s will be sold so that Mazda will bring to us the next RX-7.

If you expected the RX-8 to be like the RX-7, you will be disappointed. But if you desire sports car performance and looks with a little bit of practicality thrown in, this is the car for you.

Maybe Mazda's marketing to:

1) Rotary enthusiasts
2) College graduates who just banked a new job.
3) Driving a car that doesn't have moving pistons?
4) Families who have children and still want a sports car, which is the same as the people above.

Reasons:

1) Its been a long time since Mazda remade the rotary for the USDM, since the FD RX-7.
2) The car is very sporty and still has that young, executive and non-ricer look. Why should the graduate buy a Civic? Wrx? RSX? Those cars are for teenagers.
3) Something new. Why drive a 4 banger, V6 or V8?
4) Room for the kids, unlike the S2000 and Z3 or Z4.

I could be wrong. :) Okay. RX-8 isn't a pure sports car. :(

Reasons this car got my attention:
1)Not your average sports car
2)Reasonably priced
3)there is just something about it that makes you go "damn that car looks good, but in a wierd way."
4)Decent performance


The Wicked MOnkey

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Any other ideas of cars you think people will be cross shopping the RX-8 with?


Ike

I think a few would be cross-shopping the same vehicles as I pondered. Mainly the Infiniti G35 coupe and the BMW 330ci.

To me, the 330 coupe was not sporty enough (sports car look) and too many $$$, and the G35 coupe's interior was ugly (IMO) and it's back seat room was not as good as the RX-8.

Shift-x, be careful when you use the word ricer along with WRX in any sentence when around me, I can get very mean :p

The WRX is an no frills enthusiasts car as far as I'm concerned. Go to an auto-x, dragstrip, rallyx event and see for your self, most of our modded cars are all go and little show. The ones that do have the show usually have plenty under the hood to back it up.


Cheers,
Ike

See my ricey WRX below, I regret the bodykit, bit it was the only non red or yellow one left for 100s of miles in a MY03, and I just had to have the bugeyes :)

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Shift-x, be careful when you use the word ricer along with WRX in any sentence when around me, I can get very mean :p

The WRX is an no frills enthusiasts car as far as I'm concerned. Go to an auto-x, dragstrip, rallyx event and see for your self, most of our modded cars are all go and little show. The ones that do have the show usually have plenty under the hood to back it up.


Cheers,
Ike

See my ricey WRX below, I regret the bodykit, bit it was the only non red or yellow one left for 100s of miles in a MY03, and I just had to have the bugeyes :)

werd my dad has a wrx (with several cobb toys) and i like the car alot, but it's more of a rally-x car, and i'm more of an auto-x person

:eek: Sorry about that IKE. Your REX is very nice and not Ricey. I used to love WRXs, but I like something invigorating and refreshing - out of the norm.

It seems to me you value performance over luxury with a Japanese flavor. Go with the car that gets you that. In the 30k range STI or Evo will do you justice. :)

See IkeWRX, you have just proven my point by posting that picture. The WRX is basically an impreza on steriods. Pure unadulterated power, will out-accelerate, outhandle, outbrake most cars on the road. No denying that.

Just that some folks will not drive the WRX because it looks like an impreza. To each his own. In my opinion, I think the WRX is a fabulous machine that will keep you grinning again and again. I just cant get past the looks.

If there is room for the WRX in our current marketplace, surely there is room for the RX-8. I hope. Only time will tell.

At least, no minivan is going to out-accelerate the RX-8. ;)

I think this would be an application for Occam's Razor (where the simplest answer is the best) .. so here's my response .. "because I wanted the RX8" ... man, trying to quantify the things we get or want can take days off your life .. so I'll stick w/ the simple answer of "just b'cuz ..."

The WRX is nice and I'm sure ppl had their own reasons for the WRX as the we do the RX8 ...

alex

Originally posted by Tweety-nator
See IkeWRX, you have just proven my point by posting that picture. The WRX is basically an impreza on steriods. Pure unadulterated power, will out-accelerate, outhandle, outbrake most cars on the road. No denying that.

Just that some folks will not drive the WRX because it looks like an impreza. To each his own. In my opinion, I think the WRX is a fabulous machine that will keep you grinning again and again. I just cant get past the looks.

If you there is room for the WRX in our current marketplace, surely there is room for the RX-8. I hope. Only time will tell.

At least, no minivan is going to out-accelerate the RX-8. ;)

I admit, the WRX is not going to win any beauty contests, and that's sort of what I love about it. And I wouldn't get to confident about the minivan comment, have you seen the Forester XT, PT cruiser GT, or any of the silly turbo caravans before? :p


Ike

This car beaks new ground and I think only time will if it's a hit.



This may make no sense- but I really like cars that no on else buys- WHenever I get somethinbg I sectretly hope they stop making them (of course after some after market tuners build some parts for it) There are not many probe GT's in manhattan (what I'm driving) I see a few here and there driven in from out of town) - I still haven't gotten tired of it's lines

To me its very simple .....

The RX8 is a beast of its own it expands and almost perfects what I love in a car.

It has power to get your blood pumping.

The power seems very constant and dependable

Handeling is awsome especially if you like the twisties.

Tranny and short shifter is so awsome and smoothe and sure. No gear grinding here.

The curves of the car are intoxicating.

When sitting in the car you know your purpose unlike many other cars.

If i stand near my car for too long I have to drive it. It just feels so good.

If you look at the details of the car you can feel the importance of the car and what it stands for.

This car was obviously built with technical expertiese and passion.

It comes from an awsome family with an awesome track record.

It has so much class it cannot be denied.

Unlike what many think right now this car has so much potential its just untapped.

What is great about this engine is that just like the B series honda fans who knew some of the potential of the K20 were never aware of the full potential of the engine. Now tuners are embracing the K20.

I Believe this is a similar case with the upgraded 13B. We only have speculation based on what we do know, and our opnions on what might be.

I just cant wait for the tuners to get their hands on the upgraded 13B. I know we are all going to be pleasently suprised.

Originally posted by IkeWRX


I admit, the WRX is not going to win any beauty contests, and that's sort of what I love about it. And I wouldn't get to confident about the minivan comment, have you seen the Forester XT, PT cruiser GT, or any of the silly turbo caravans before? :p


Ike

Good point about that Turbo Caravan, my bad! :D

I stand corrected. At least no Honda Insight is going to out-accelerate the RX-8 :D

(And please dont tell me there is a turbo-kit for the Insight as well! :eek: )

;)

Any other ideas of cars you think people will be cross shopping the RX-8 with?

I'm looking to upgrade from my Acura Integra. Need room for 4 adults, comfortable for long drives (2 adults), fun to drive.

I was cross shopping with the Mazda 6, Acura TSX, The Volkswagen Passat, Volvo S60, G35/coupe, Honda Accord V6 MT and the Nissan Maxima. Sorry but the STI/EVO/Skyline just doesn't turn my crank (thank god, otherwise we'd all be driving the same thing).

All these cars have more then enough power for me. The Maxima was a boat and I didn't care for the interior. The G35 sedan was too boring, while the G35 coupe looks good, only people who are shorter then 5'8" can fit in the back (maybe) and the 2 door thing is ackward. The Accord and the TSX (Euro Accord) are just too boring on the outside. The Passat is big and has reliablity issues (every VW owner that I talked to starts by saying how much they love their cars and then 3 min into the conversation, they start talking about the "little" problems that their baby has). The S60 has distinctive lines but it is huge! The price starts at where the RX8 stops but the rates are much lower and plenty of deals to be had. It was my #2 choice (I would love to have one as a winter car or those long trips with more then 2 adults). Actually the Mazda 6v6 was originally my #2 but too many early 20's crowd are getting it. That means that by next year the insurance rate is going to skyrocket (just like my Teg did 5 years ago). So it got scratched from my list.

The RX8 is the best looking under $40k CDN "sport sedan" ;) that I found. It can make my heart beat a little faster just thinking about going for a drive (which I have yet to do :mad: ). I actually like the side profile but the rear end needs some work IMHO. It may not be the fastest of the group but 0-60 in 6.5 is plenty fast for me (finaly got over the missing HP). To me it would have been perfect if it had a lift back or at the very least fold down rear seats (I wouldn't care about the loss of performance because of lower body rigidity). I'm really pissed that it has such poor fuel consumption tho' (compared to the rest).

Who do I see as the biggest market for the 8? A family man (or woman :p) who are in their mid 30s to 50's who want a sedan that not only looks like a sports car but can actually play with many of them. They want something that is different from the rest of the boring sedanville out there (Toyota, Honda/Acura). If I am correct, I hate to break it to many of you, but that will mean a lot of automatic RX8. Judging by the numbers of automatics that have already shipped to Canada, I think that Mazda is thinking along the same lines. Having the fastest 0-60 isn't at the top of this group list however it remains to be seen if sub 9 is fast enough.

My friend (an 18 year old spoiled kid :p ) has an RX-8. I don't quite know what he was looking for when he bought it, but he seems happy enough.

Ike, i'm with you on the WRX, After a year and a half i'm still in love with my (totally non-rice) WRX.

I am strating to be a little pissed by all these young boys spending their dady money buying the 8 ...

I don't want to end up in a car that will be assimilated to these golden (by their birth) childs that will crash the car sooner or later ...

I lately seen a lot of post of very young guys n that direction and it makes me jump sometimes, as (very stupidly) I thought we will be (buyers) around 30-40 years old ...

But It's not politically correct to say so ;)

I'm neither a Mazda fan or a rotary fan (in fact the rotary engine was the main thing putting me off the RX8 initially.)

I had a WRX STi on my shopping list alongside a few others. My requirements for a car is something that is fast and that can seat 3 adults. I currently have a Volvo C70 T5 but my commuting passengers are sick of my 2 door coupe - it is a pain for them getting in and out.

I looked at the STi as it is the same price as the Hi-Power RX8 in the UK but they are becoming far too common on the roads and are as ugly as sin.

I think anyone who likes a sporty performing car , with good looks and the practicality of a true 4 seater will be drawn to the RX8. At the relatively low price it will attract many 'mid life crisis' middle aged dads IMO.

P.S. can you do a American English --> English translation for me? Whats is rice or ricey?

I'm 31. Recently married, recently bought a house... and I liked the look of the RX8 since I saw it, I think on a tv commercial last year.

I drove a Dodge Stealth last year, but didn't end up liking the ride as much... I'm more into comfort than feeling every bump in the road. But I loved how much power it had.

Rotary? Cool, but not that big a deal to me. It'll be different, that's about all. I liked how quiet the engine was when I test-drove it.

4-door 4 seater, with good performance and handling, at a price I can afford? We're looking to have kids in a few years, and 2-seater cars don't appeal to me, so this is *the* selling point.

I'm upgrading from a base-model Dodge Neon, mmm, econoboxy... and wanted something with performance, handling, that didn't look like everything else on the road... and the RX8 fits the bill, with 4 seats and 4 doors.

I'm looking forward to getting my preorder... end Aug / early September... hopefully...

I am happy to see that my profile has not became rare within the RX8 buyers :p

Please more people like that and less posing in front of dady's house with the 8 ...

Or we will end up again and again into the street racer endless discussions ...

I am exactly like you : 31, recently married, flat bought in Paris, one 3 months ADORABLE daughter, a dog, but I don't want to buy a convertible :) Or at least a RS4, but too expensive :)

So I finally chosen the RX8. Sorry, I never drove a rotary, feel this will be fine with me who is used to motorcycle powerful high revs engine, but it wasn't the selling point for me.

The 4 seats, sport design price and motor exclusivity was ...

Mazda's stated target RX-8 buyer: late 20s early 30s, college educated, male, unmarried, makes over $70k a year. They've stated this in several trade magazines now.

I think the original question doesnt make sense if you spend any amount of time on these forums.

Why market a street car that can do 0-60 in 5 seconds? Street racing is illegal. yet there's tons of them. Cause people like them for one reason or another. I was never a rotary fan, hell, I didnt even know what that was up until 3 months ago. I dont have a family (cant have kids and dont want to anyways).

I just think it's a awesome looking car. I love the sound of the engine, I love the feel of the engine, and I think the einside fits me like a glove. So I wont be the first guy off the starting line. I dont give a crap. Big f***ing deal. I dont street race. If I am gonna race this it's going to be me on a track enjoying the car.

For example, using that same logic, why would anybody buy a Roll's Royce? Cause it's ultra expensive? Thats about as good a reason as "It's got a rotary engine".

Originally posted by The Beav
it's for the people that want a sports car, but they have families and thus cannot buy a two seater, and rotary enthusiats (like me)

Ike, I think the very first answer that was posted is right on the mark except I would change the AND to an OR: "Those who want a sports car but have families OR for rotary enthusiasts."

I'm in the first category. Family of three, rarely more than two of us in the car but occasionally need the back seat. Now the son needs chaparoning with his gf, so sometimes 4 of us. 75% of the time I'm alone in the car. Consider this my stepping stone from the minivan dad I was to the roadster I'm gonna get once the son is driving on his own (and no, he doesn't get the 8 when I get my roadster. He'll start with something more humble. I agree with the many comments that this isn't a car for a spoiled 17-yr-old.)

The answer is very simple and stated by Mazda on their worldwide site. Here's the link.

http://www.mazda.com/history/rotary/

Maybe those who are wondering about what market this car is targeted at should watch the Japanese video/commercial -ya know the one where the guy holds the toy car.

Originally posted by Elara
Mazda's stated target RX-8 buyer: late 20s early 30s, college educated, male, unmarried, makes over $70k a year. They've stated this in several trade magazines now.

Well, I only meet 2 1/2 of the 5 of those criteria you listed. :D

Originally posted by Elara
Mazda's stated target RX-8 buyer: late 20s early 30s, college educated, male, unmarried, makes over $70k a year. They've stated this in several trade magazines now.

Really? Well then, they nailed me. Although from this forum, it seems like there are more married people than not. Could be that you married people are more outspoken here.

I think this car is going to draw people who might otherwise have bought an Accord or Camry. The two back seats are perfectly functional. If you have small kids, its much safer back there as they can't open the back doors without the parent opening the front first. It does everything a midsize sedan does, except lug lots of luggage, and does it with nice performance and appealing looks.

That said, I think we nuts who had to be the 1st to own are gonna take a real bath with this car. I'm convinced that by this Winter it will be selling for at least $2,000 less than what we paid. My dealership has another 43 coming in this month, most of which are unclaimed. Considering there are 2 other Mazda dealers in the Austin area, that's gonna be a lot of surplus RX8's.

The rotary fans alone will not sustain the 30,000 cars Mazda expects to import annually. For us to have any resale value, the Accord and Camry buyers MUST purchase substantial numbers.

The RX-8 is a preview of the rx-7. It's just my hunch about Mazda. Personally I think it's slick. Great alternative to those reasons already mentioned. The only reason would make me wonder is about it being marketed to those ppl who wants to drive a sporty rotary car and want backseat for passengers. Well with 159 lb-ft of tq, hauling a full load of ppl would be quite a challenge on the streets. I bet a Mazda6 V6 (along with camry, accord, altima, etc...) will be the better job for that. So if I am that person, I'd prolly look elsewhere. Like a WRX which is both sporty and useful to haul stuff especially the wagon version.
Nevertheless, the rx-8 is a sweet car and the fact that it is able to be this hybrid (sedan/coupe) layout makes it even more appealing.
Besides it's not that more expensive than a WRX and it sure looks better than the Subie...except for the old old style which looks wicked. :D

Originally posted by IkeWRX

I will be cross shopping it with the S2K, Evo, STI, and 350Z, but I really don't see those as being in the same class as the RX-8.


Ike [/B]
That's exactly right. The RX-8 is in a class by iself and appeals to a broad range of potential customers. i for one am one of the many Miata owners who loved our cars but wanted soemthing with more pace, more comfort and mare performance. The RX-8 delivers all of these atributes as well as many more.:p

There is also one thing that hasn't been mentioned enough here. RWD! Most of the other cars in the same class and price are FWD.. Personally I'm looking for as much performance as I can afford.. In Canada there is not another RWD sports/sporty coupe with RWD under 40K. I'm not a fan of the WRX, inside or out and cars like S2000, 350Z, G35C are all $45K plus. So for me it's a combination of things: it's rwd, LIGHTWEIGHT at around 3000lbs, cheap(relatively speaking), handles very well, has 247hp with mid 14's 1/4 mile, (hopefully :D ) I like how it looks inside and out, the engine revs to 9000rpm which I like, great 6spd tranny, it's got 4 seats which is a nice option even though I'm single. If my budget was bigger I might look at the S2000.. but otherwise for $37K Cnd the RX-8 with all the features it has is a bargain imo. Sure it might not be as "hardcore" as the S2000.. but that's where the fun of modding begins! :D

Honestly the only serious drawback if you can call it that is the fuel economy so far. At 14-15L/100km it's on the very thirsty side. I'm hoping that if and when the ECU/HP/richness etc issues are worked out this might bring the fuel economy to more acceptable levels of say 11-13L/100km.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
I think we nuts who had to be the 1st to own are gonna take a real bath with this car. I'm convinced that by this Winter it will be selling for at least $2,000 less than what we paid.

The rotary fans alone will not sustain the 30,000 cars Mazda expects to import annually. For us to have any resale value, the Accord and Camry buyers MUST purchase substantial numbers.

A slightly different way of looking at this: Few, if any, of us bought these cars as "investments", which typically is the context of "bath-taking" as you use it. Everyone who has gotten the RX-8 presumably now has a car they love at a price they believe is reasonable. If others pay $2000 less later (which I agree is likely) hey, we got to be first on the road and reveled in the admiring and envious looks as we cruised. Plus, we got to enjoy the car for the summer, which is one reason I wanted mine so quick. I couldn't bear another summer in the minivan. To me, it was worth every dime.

BTW, I thought Mazda was shooting to import around 15-18K 8's annually to the US, at least for now. Are they now saying 30,000? Bummer. I hope this doesn't turn into another PT Cruiser, which was exotic for about a week until you were tripping over them all over the K-Mart parking lot. :(

Originally posted by Elara
Mazda's stated target RX-8 buyer: late 20s early 30s, college educated, male, unmarried, makes over $70k a year. They've stated this in several trade magazines now.
All I can say is, when I was in my late 20s/early 30s I was no where near making OVER $70k/year!!! :(

Let's wait another 2-3 months then we'll know exactly how well this car will sell. I think IkeWRX makes some good points regarding the target audience issue. Mazda is targetting people in their 20-30 singles that are making around $70k.... then I think they are way off. How many recently graduated single males are willing to spend around $30k for a Mazda crossover?

However, look at the sales data from Japan and you'll see the RX-8 is selling like hot cakes there. (comparatively) Mazda Japan doesn't have the reputation for below avaerge service/quality issue that Mazda USA has. I believe this will haunt the RX-8 in the US more than anything else.

Originally posted by TomsterRX8
That said, I think we nuts who had to be the 1st to own are gonna take a real bath with this car. I'm convinced that by this Winter it will be selling for at least $2,000 less than what we paid.

If you can't afford to buy it, don't buy it. If you have to worry about resale value you're in over your head, IMO.

I was satisfied with the price I paid for mine, and the price tomorrow or 6 months from now doesn't affect me at all. I'm certainly not going to worry about +/- $2k.

I seriously doubt there will be 30,000 RX-8s in this country for a long time. As far as I know this initial batch will be it until next year; they still need to produce for Europe and other non-Japan, non-North America markets and then catch up with Japanese demand....

SGC

Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
However, look at the sales data from Japan and you'll see the RX-8 is selling like hot cakes there.

Please note that the RX-8 does not smell like hot cakes.

SGC

A note on resale value~

When I was in market for a brand new Mazda Millenia S back in late 1994. (MSRP $37500) The dealerships would not sell for less than $500 off MSRP since it was such a hot car and won a comparison test done by Motor Trend (?) against the BMW, Infiniti and Mercedes. Mazda at the time claimed the Miller Cycle engine was the way of the future, power like a 3L V6, consume gas like a 2L I4, and has reliability of nothing before it. I was very tempted to buy, but decided to wait a year. By June of 1995, I ended up buying a 8 months old Millenia for $22000 from the dealership. That is over $15000 off the MSRP in depreciation within ONE YEAR. (Not accounting in what that the seller got by selling it in the first place) I don't know about the RX-8, but for your sake I sure hope this won't happen to the RX-8.

Synopsis: The Miller Cycle engine was unreliable (in shop every month), went through 3 trannies in 6years, tires lasted no longer than 20,000 miles due to alignment problem the dealership refuse to fix, lots of minor annoyances. In the end, I concluded the car wasn't even worth the $22000 that I paid at 1 yr used.

All the cars that I looked at against the 8 were sedans of varying sportiness. I have always owned sport sedans ever since I could afford one. I am replacing a 1993 Nissan Maxima SE. So I drove a new Max, G35 Sedan, Volvo S60 [don't know what I was thinking there], cadillac CTS Manual trans. Out of these only the G35 and the Cadillac were even close to the quality and drivability of my 93 max. The new max was a massive disappointment to me being too heavy, a skwungy suspension and a very loose shifter feel. The G35 was very tight and very competent on the road, but the Cadillac nosed it out for me as a sport sedan with a better all around interior, but the two cars are very close in quality. The suspension was a little loose, but it was a lovely feel, powerful and a great drive [I drove it without the sport package that the Infiniti had].

The thing here is that they all had one problem. They were sedans. I own three cars currently. A nissan, a 1967 Alfa Romeo, and a 1972 Mercedes. Nothing modern out sedans that '72 merz, and as sports cars go, the Alfa is very competent. It isn't going to win any great races against modern sports cars, but the feel of the car is pure sport. So what I wanted in a car is not a sports car or a sedan. I wanted a grand tourer. An honest 2+2 that rides better than a sports car and handles better than a sedan in a small package, and the only one out there is the Mazda RX 8. It isn't a kind of car people build much any more, but then neither was the roadster when Mazda brought out the Miata. The Miata was introduced when its only competition was a completely out dated Alfa Spider which sold in the low thousands a year, and in its last year sold in the hundreds, and mazda made a success of that.

My point here is that the RX 8 is hard to categorize because it is neither a sedan nor a coupe. The action of the doors acting as only half doors and only in conjunction with the front doors make the car an "uber-coupe" neither a sedan nor coupe. Perfect for me. The suspension is too soft to be a true sports car "too much body roll" from many accounts, but apparently it does not have the shock through the spine that a sports car has even though the suspension has all of the components of a real sports car. The tuning was chosen to be softer. It's a touring suspension, and again just what I want for a daily driver. If they build an RX 7 out of this, the 8 won't trip over it because it isn't a sports car. That has to have been a thought for Mazda when they designed it. They wanted something new.

It's unique, and I can't wait to get it. As for demographics. I too fall into the target audience although not at that income level, however, although the car is affordable to me. It is worth noting that the car is cheaper than the '93 RX 7 that I just couldn't flip the bill for when I was in my early twenties.

Mazda is taking a risk, but they did with the Miata and that paid. I think that this car too will be able to find a market, even in such a down time for car sales as the current period.

-H

If you can't afford to buy it, don't buy it. If you have to worry about resale value you're in over your head, IMO.

Uh, I make well over the average income of the targeted buyer. Trust me, I can afford it. That doesn't make me any happier when I see this car going for $500 over invoice in the all-too-near future. I actually got the car at a decent discount in that I know the owner of the dealership. But I, like everyone else on this board, wanted that head-turning sensation like I had with the '93 RX7 and the '00 S2000. The RX7 turned out to depreciate close to $1,000/month in the year that I owned it. The S2000 actually rose in value in the year that I owned it. The difference, obviously, is the amount imported into the U.S. You'll never, ever see a parking lot full of S2000's but, at the rate the RX8 is pouring into this country, head turns will quickly turn into head shakes, as in "Not another F-ing RX8!"

If it were females that were speeding up to check out me and the new ride then I'd say that $2,000 is a cheap way to meet them. Unfortunately, as is the case with all the cool cars I've owned, 99% of the thumbs up comes from goofy ass guys.

I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. If I'm right then the $12,000 I put down on the car will be eaten up after the 1st year. And that, sir, does make the car unaffordable.

there's something to be said about a sporty car especially in today's modern sporty car segment that is still weighing a pifle over 3000lb. compare that to the Z, WRX, G35C etc which are way over 3000 in the case of g35C (3500lb!)
you can throw in heavy-duy stiff suspension, but it will not beat a light-weight car in terms of handlng and communication b/t car and driver. 'nuff said.
sure the 8 can still be lighter but I'm impressed that it's still comparatively lighter than the competition.

Ditto with what Zoomster said - price compared to competition, looks, versatility.

What initially drew me to the RX 8 was the body style. The front reminded me of an Italian Race car (wasn't sure which one) but that was one thing. Now I know the car - the Ferrari 360 Modena.

The second was the price. I was astonished. I am a coupe/sedan person that refuses to give up driveability and join the SUV crowd. (they are great for trips but I'll fly!

The third was the back seat capability. If this had been an RX7 remake I would have admired it but not purchased it just like the Corvette, S2000, or even Miata. (we have a miata that is solely one famiy member's car)

Fourth was drivability - sports drive and RWD (thats special)

Watch the Japanese video clip on the car on this forum under media. It kind os sums it up for me although I am not married or have a pair of bridesmaids but I do know a couple of Thai girls who...

Originally posted by delhi
there's something to be said about a sporty car especially in today's modern sporty car segment that is still weighing a pifle over 3000lb. compare that to the Z, WRX, G35C etc which are way over 3000 in the case of g35C (3500lb!)
you can throw in heavy-duy stiff suspension, but it will not beat a light-weight car in terms of handlng and communication b/t car and driver. 'nuff said.
sure the 8 can still be lighter but I'm impressed that it's still comparatively lighter than the competition.

My WRX weighs under 3050 lbs., not sure where your info is coming from...

I'm a sad old engineer at heart so:

* A 1.3 litre rotary that develops >200BHP seems kind of cool
* 50:50 weight ratio in a 4-seater, 4-door coupe for £22,000 sounds cool
* A rotary just to be different
* 9000 RPM
* Nice flat torque curve
* Not a BMW 3 series like all the rest
* That fantastic, curved, sculptured front end
* 4 seat, 4 door, quirky backward facing doors
* Room for my family
* A boot with space
* Really, really nice roadholding
* Smooth ride considering the roadholding
* The fact that they don't exist in the UK yet, so I will be one of the first
* Far, far more ingenious than the Nissan 350Z which (although a great car) adds nothing new to the motor industry


I could go on forever, but I'd only start to bore you

As I mentioned in other threads, I selected and pre-ordered an RX-8 as my company car. The RX-8 is right at the allowed cost limit, and I preferred it over VW Passat, Audi A4, etc. I like the RX-8's style, handling, unique rotary engine & unusual 4-door system. I got the automatic transmission since that's what I prefer and I will not be street-racing. Most of my driving will be on residential & commercial streets (limit is 50km/hr = 31MPH) and highways (100km/hr = 63MPH). Even though most Montrealers exceed the speed limit by about 20%, I'll often be stuck behind grandpa driving the likes of this:

http://home.no.net/ayla/Studebaker/pages/1963%20Studebaker%20Lark.htm

Wanted the Mazda6 until I found out about the RX 8 and it's 4 doors!!! I love sporty cars that are fun to drive...not just for speed. The car looks awesome, is unique and the interior is totally awesome!! I am female, 38 years old......it will appeal to female buyers for these reasons. The 4 doors and interior sealed the deal. I wish it was $5000 less but what the heck! Bets car I have seen next to the 350Z and G35! Ordered Sunlight Silver last week. Mazda should sella decent amount of these cars when more people know about them and see them. I never drove a Mazda until 2 years ago when I bought the Protege5 sportwagon and since them I am all Mazda baby!

Originally posted by shift_x
Maybe Mazda's marketing to:


2) College graduates who just banked a new job.

Reasons:

2) The car is very sporty and still has that young, executive and non-ricer look. Why should the graduate buy a Civic? Wrx? RSX? Those cars are for teenagers.



Ditto thaz me..

I also compared it to the Evo. Actually had a deposit on the Evo but i took it back. The RX-8 kills the evo in styling.

Performance EVO hands down,

Another thing I thought about.. do i really need 271 horseys?
I dont race. 250 will do me fine.

I do want a car that others will look at and say wow. The average Joe Schmoe will look at an EVO or STI and be like what ever some Teenage kid hookin up a car.

Thaz my 2 cents and why i shall be gettin an RX-8 this week

It's a car that was designed just for me and here's why. When Mazda came up with the concept they said it was for the guy who had RX7's in the past, but now has other obligations such as wife and kids, and still wants to drive a performance car. When I read that, I knew I would have one when it came out. I had a 2nd gen and a 3rd gen RX7, and now I have a wife and three kids, therefore, it's designed just for me. And by the way, I appreciate Mazda's insight into my life and the life of guys just like me. That's the way you earn brand loyalty. No Z car for me - ever.

I saw the RX-8 for the first time on Sunday. There are a lot of people out there that grew up on the RX-7. Look at Mazda before the RX-8. Other then the Miata, what do they have that is truly unique? The Tribute is a Ford Escape, the Mazda 6 is another sedan, the MPV is another mini-van. To buy one, you've got to like Mazda more then Honda or Toyota. The RX-8 is unique, and it pulls people into the local Mazda dealer to check it out. I watched the steady line of people drive into the dealer to check out the RX-8's. They may buy one, they may buy another Mazda, or even several Mazda's. A neighbor of mine bought a Tribute. They liked it enough that they also bought a Mazda 6 a month later. That is brand loyalty.

The RX-8 is what Mazda needed to do.

I agree Mazda's other cars except for the really nice looking 6 and cool protege5, are just a bunch of boring cars. The RX 8 may help them with people taking another look at Mazda cars. I don't know if I would have ever considered Mazda until I drove the Protege5. Do all there cars have such great handling? If so, people will find out just how fun Mazda's really are to drive. To me the interiors kick butt over most cars. Ford's....totally boring except for Mustang.....all cheap plastic materials inside, Nissan... just ok, Toyota....boring in and out, Chevy....major boring except for the vette, Pontiac...decent outside........plastic, cheap, and uncomfortable inside. Chrysler...nice looking cars, ok inside, very poor reliability etc.!!! I have yet to drive the RX8 but will this week....first car I ever ordered and never even drove first!! That says something!

i wonder if MNAO or TPTB read threads like this one and break their poverbial arms patting themselves on the back for such a already beloved car...

anyway, it's interesting how many posts there are that sum up my situation: I'm in the same situation as MrBeav, RX-8Zoomster, Tweety-nator, MrWolf, et al. I want a "sporty" car with great performance but with 4 doors for the occassional passenger or small children.

Mazda's stated target RX-8 buyer: late 20s early 30s, college educated, male, unmarried, makes over $70k a year. They've stated this in several trade magazines now.
I fit ~3 "½" of these criteria; I'm married and I don't make $70K (getting close though!). However, I'd question the "unmarried" criterion. I also think it seems, as Good Duck observed, that it appears a lot of us are married already.

I think people get too hung up on the fact that it's got 4 useable seats and those extra doors (so is it really a sports car etc). I believe the 2+2 coupe concept is dead - people won't contort themselves into tiny back seats anymore, even for short journeys. This is why Nissan got rid of the back seats when they designed the 350Z, even though they saw it as an Audi TT competitor - their research told them that TT owners just used the back seats for extra luggage space anyway. The other way of responding to this is to produce a coupe with useable back seats, such as the RX-8.

I think all coupe's in the future will be either pure two seaters like the Z or full four seaters like the 8. It's the strange 2+2 halfway house that doesn't make any sense and will vanish.

Originally posted by ChrisW

I think all coupe's in the future will be either pure two seaters like the Z or full four seaters like the 8. It's the strange 2+2 halfway house that doesn't make any sense and will vanish.

Yup. That's why I have never before bought a coupe, but I have bought the 8. The car that my parent's allowed me to drive when I was sixteen, and I got very tired of having guys climb over me to get in and out of the car. It was easier than actually getting out of the car though. Still was nice to HAVE a car at that age, but it was not a pleasant experience.

The 8 IS the 2+2 idea in spades right down to the set-up.

Originally posted by ChrisW
...This is why Nissan got rid of the back seats when they designed the 350Z... Nissan got rid of the back seats when they designed the 300ZX.

---jps

TT's have backseats????? :eek:

all this time i thought they're just 2 seaters...

Originally posted by IkeWRX

...And I wouldn't get to confident about the minivan comment, have you seen the Forester XT, PT cruiser GT, or any of the silly turbo caravans before? :p

Ike Oh please! My MX-6 leaves those in the dust routinely, without even trying! HP/torque does NOT = speed!

Originally posted by Sputnik
Nissan got rid of the back seats when they designed the 300ZX.

---jps
I thought some of the old 300ZXs were 2+2? I could almost swear I've seen them.

Yes, I've ridden in the +2 seat before (torture!). 300ZX's are sweet. Wish I could say the same for the replacement.

I know the early 90's 300ZX has a 2X2 variant.

Remember, I'm talking about the 300ZX (the mid-90's car, the previous Z), not the 300Z. And I am pretty sure that the 300ZX did not have any +2 seats.

---jps

Originally posted by Sputnik
Remember, I'm talking about the 300ZX (the mid-90's car, the previous Z), not the 300Z. And I am pretty sure that the 300ZX did not have any +2 seats.

---jps

actually im 100% sure thre are 2+2 my friend has a 300zx no turbo nothing like that but 2 back seats are there

The 300ZX (Z32) from 1990-1996 did come in 2+2 hatckback format. The 2+2 was only available in a NA engine, no turbocharger. Both the regular and turbocharged versions of this car are referred to as "300ZX".

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1996/nissan/300zx/index.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.usedvdpheadertitle ..0.Nissan*

http://members.aol.com/KarlWS/zhistory.html

We're talking about this body style right?
http://www.algonet.se/~danman/pic2.JPG

Or the version before that?

Yup that be the 1990-1996 300ZX.

http://www.carbuffs.com/nissan300zx93ext4.jpg

http://www.carbuffs.com/nissan300zx93int3.jpg

No offense, but think about the thread you started:

Fantasy world reality:

-Everyone can live with and afford true sportscars. All roads are conditioned for 24 hour GT style racing.

-There is no need for briefcase or golfbag room.

-Everyone who drives a sports car has no need for the extra room of the 2 kids in the back seat.

-Gas is cheap. Insurance rates are so low, it's rediculous...

Now, back to Real World Reality:

-Practicality matters.

-GT Touring cars with the 4 doors, that seat 4 people, and give you room for everyday practicality(ie M3, M5, IS300) are functional and appropriate.

-4 doors, 9 times out of 10 are always more practical. I truly wished at times my RX-7 had 4 doors, and 4 seats to it. My Celica has 4 seats but they are really not that functional. The Mustang, the Z, and the 911 rear seats do nothing for you unless you have small kids.


Serious Ike. Think of what you're saying. Mazda really hit the nail on the head with this car. Sportscars, in theory are very fun, and everyone should own one. In reality, people like comfortability, practicality, and functionality but the don't want to lose or easily forget the "Sportscar" like feel that every car should have. Almost all of Mazda's cars, historically, have been built with "fun" and "sporty" in mind.

The RX-8 simply takes it to another level. You wait and watch. Many, many more companies will start coming out with 4-Door, 4-Seater "GT Touring" style cars in the next few years. Heak, even the car which you post as your Avatar is somewhat of a GT Touring car when you think about it. When was the last time Subaru made a "true" sportscar? I can't think of one. Don't forget the S4, or S6 either.

The Sports-coupe market, and Mid-Sized Sedan market have been popular the last few years. Manufacturers are changing ideology. Why not combine the best of both worlds, and turn them into something that can benefit everyone?

Mazda, is and always will be a company which thrives on innovation.

Also, the Mazda6, is more of a Mid-sized Sedan for people who want sportiness, but fear the rotary engine, and want something a little cheaper. But that has nothing to do with it being a bad car. It's still a Camry/Accord Competitor.

I was always told that a 2+2 was not available. I stand corrected.

---jps

Please don't take offense to this as I mean no ill intent, but when a person comes in here and is already biased towards the WRX, is there really ANY answer we can give that will satisfy? Probably not. If I were to go into a WRX forum and ask; what is a WRX and why would anyone want one, I would probably get a very biased response towards the WRX, and rightfully so.

I have driven the WRX. I like the car and pondered buying one a year ago. I had a couple of problems with it though. The suspension feels too mushy and inprecise for me and by no means was I impressed with the abs system. The car had wonderful power and very nice room inside. I do like the looks as well. There is quite a bit of road noise but that is to be expected of a car in its price range.

Now for my driving impression of the RX-8. Power is sporty but nothing approaching impressive. Looks are beautiful. Interior space is more than I have ever seen in a sports car. The back seat is very easily functional with more headroom in back than my little Civic. Road noise isn't bad. Much quieter than a Civic, WRX, but not so quiet as a BMW or Mercedes. The car turns wonderfully. Very stable and agile. It would be very hard for a WRX to keep up in the twisties unless it was modified. Brakes are very nice. Stability control on the car adds a dimension of control that is hard to get in another car in almost any price range. The exhaust note when revved up is very F1 like. I would describe it as 'sonorous'! I am a real estate agent and I would actually show clients around in that car. I'd look damn cool doing it too! My fiance loves the car as well and she wants one of her own albeit the automatic version. The car has a great wife acceptance factor. She does not like the WRX and was part of the reason I never went through with it. If I want sheer power I can go drive my big single turbo T-II. I'm not scared of a WRX in it, STI or otherwise. Thats mostly why I want one. The biggest single reason I like the car is of course, the rotary engine. It doesn't matter if it has 100, 250, or 500 horsepower. It just has a place in my heart.