i'll be taking my new rx-8 to several track events this summer and am new to rotary engines. are there any special things i should be aware of when you run a rx-8 hard around a track? should you let it idle after coming off the track for a few minutes, take extra spark plugs, run a little premix????? those types of things. i'm a little nervous, i don't know what to expect, if anything.

Its pretty hard to do real damage to an unmodified rx8 at the track, but you should be aware of a couple things. First, bring extra oil and check the level after EVERY session. You can burn almost a quart in 30 minutes of track time. The other thing is to try not to use your brakes on the cool-down lap. This will prevent warping.

Also, make sure all your ducting is clear of debris. There should be no obstructions to the radiator, brake ducts, or oil coolers.

Some people like to run premix, but be careful, the wrong type can clog your cat. Search the forums for more info than that.

Otherwise, just have a blast! Don't fear running it up to (sometimes past) the redline. Rotaries actually like to be revved. There's even evidence that a rotary ran hard can last longer than a "babied" rotary.

I just finished my 2nd track event this past weekend at VIR (last event was Summit Point Shenendoah Circuit). Take an extra quart of oil just in case; check cold & hot tire pressures; warm the engine before hitting the track; and beware that at speed it'll gulp maybe twice as much fuel.

I don't let it idle after coming off the track, but I pop the hood to help it cool down. Don't set your parking brake after coming off the track.

Other than that, HAVE A BLAST! The 8 was made for track days! :)

take special care not to hit the wall or other cars ...

Cool down your car by driving at slower pace and not idle off the track.

I just finished my 2nd track event this past weekend at VIR (last event was Summit Point Shenendoah Circuit). Take an extra quart of oil just in case; check cold & hot tire pressures; warm the engine before hitting the track; and beware that at speed it'll gulp maybe twice as much fuel.

I don't let it idle after coming off the track, but I pop the hood to help it cool down. Don't set your parking brake after coming off the track.

Other than that, HAVE A BLAST! The 8 was made for track days! :)

Hey Paul, nice to meet you this past weekend. Wasn't VIR a blast! Like Paul said above bring oil, check your tire pressures (hot should be around 40psi), don't set your parking brake after a run, don't keep your foot on the brake right after a run. Also bring a torque wrench and check the torque on your lug nuts after an event AND YOUR WHEELS ARE COOLED DOWN. If your wheels are hot and your torque your lug nuts (aka "Hot torque") can get you into trouble.

Also on the course don't forget to rev the shit out of the Rx-8. You want to stay above 5k to be in that power band. I only used two gears at VIR, 3rd and 4th.

if you whack the rev limiter hard enough you might cause it to throw a CEL. I had an issue with that, you can solve it by pulling into the pits and restarting the car. If/when that happens, the car won't rev above 5k

if you whack the rev limiter hard enough you might cause it to throw a CEL. I had an issue with that, you can solve it by pulling into the pits and restarting the car. If/when that happens, the car won't rev above 5k

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I did hit the rev limiter on one of the straights at VIR, I was busy talking to my instructor and forgot to shift from 3rd to 4th. The throttle retarded, my instructor was suprised, thought the engine has died. But, no CEL, now Paul told me he had a CEL when he spun and went off course.

you have to really keep your foot in it after you hear the beep

the beep goes off at 8500; rev limiter is at 9500

you should have plenty of revs before fuel cut to shift, hitting rev limiter on the straights means you're not paying attention :o:

btw all you guys talk about VIR is making it harder and harder for me to stay away from VIR Grand East in June!!!

btw all you guys talk about VIR is making it harder and harder for me to stay away from VIR Grand East in June!!!

Come on, you know you want to....

I'll be there again. It is the highlight of my summer plans for the track and I can't wait.

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I did hit the rev limiter on one of the straights at VIR, I was busy talking to my instructor and forgot to shift from 3rd to 4th. The throttle retarded, my instructor was suprised, thought the engine has died. But, no CEL, now Paul told me he had a CEL when he spun and went off course.
Hey Hot, good to see you again.

Who, me? Spin off course? :angel:

Yeah, I spun on turn 7 and it stalled. I got it restarted, but the CEL stayed on even after I pitted and turned the engine off & back on a couple times. So I decided to give up my last run. I packed everything up and when I got ready to leave, the CEL was gone, grrr! :cussing:

As far as our famous beep, try this: Open both windows, put a helmet on, drive your RX-8 over 100 mph, and tell me if you hear the beep. (Hint: unlikely!)

well look down at the tach then!!! they made it BIG and RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU for a reason!!!

yea looks like i'll be signing up for VIR Grand East....

Good commentary here, and yep, I was another of they guys at the MazdaDrivers VIR-N school this past weekend (Tom, black RX-8, black wheels). There were quite a few RX-8's at this event, and I spoke with a couple of you (Paul, Lance, etc.)

I carried 4 quarts just in case, but I went through 2 quarts of oil in (7) 25 min sessions (I skipped my last session because I was just mentally pooped...)

One thing I haven't heard mentioned was bleeding the brakes before the school. I flushed the system with all new fluid before the school. I would suggest a good brake fluid like an ATE, or Motul. Personally, I use Ford HD because it's cheap and has a high dry boiling point. It needs to be changed every 6 months or so, as it's wet boiling point is not as good as ATE or Motul. I have another school at VIR-N in early April, and I should be able to get away with just flushing the fluid out of the calipers. I still have a very firm pedal

If it's your first school, you can probably get away with running all stock brake pads, but it also depends on the track. Stock RX-8 brakes are pretty impressive.

Yeah, I spun on turn 7 and it stalled. I got it restarted, but the CEL stayed on even after I pitted and turned the engine off & back on a couple times.

Interesting - the same thing happened to me. One time I did a pretty bad spin and stalled. After restarting, I too had a CEL that lasted for a while - even after a few restarts of the engine. But after about 10 minutes, I restarted again and it went away.

Isn't that strange? I wonder what code that would be?

VIR was a blast this past weekend. I was humbled by a stock blue 8 in my stock '91 NSX (black). He was a good driver- from Baltimore- anyone know him? He was moved up from Group C on Sat. to Group B on Sunday.

Anyone here going to the GrandAm races at VIR the weekend of 4/21 ??

VIR was a blast this past weekend. I was humbled by a stock blue 8 in my stock '91 NSX (black). He was a good driver- from Baltimore- anyone know him? He was moved up from Group C on Sat. to Group B on Sunday.

ah, must be Dave, yea he's pretty good, he been going to all kinds of track day events lately, so he better be getting good at it!!

Zoom- Definitely come down for VIR's Grand East in June. It should be a great configuration for the 8- more curves and a shorter back straight than the "Full" course.

You guys using your stock brake pads?

stock pads are ok on VIR w/ street tires, as it is not a brake-heavy track, lots of high speed transition turns with long straights that allow for sufficient brake cooling

things not mentioned--keep your gas tank at more than 1/4 full--can get fuel starvation on high g turns if you dont.
put new plugs in the car for the track--helps--i now keep a set for just track use. old plugs can cause a loss of power over 7k or so but you will not really feel it in everyday driving. you will see it on the dyno and when another car outpulls you..
I highly recommend an oil temp gauge--one going in mine soon. I also run a 30 wgt oil for the track vs the 20 wgt on the street. I may go to 40wgt on the track in the summer--havent decided yet. May get another oil cooler still evaluating
If you are on the straight shift at 8k. It will be faster(believe it or not) and easier on the car. There is talk of water pump cavitation over 8k. Not proven yet but it does seem reasonable. Remember track days are not races so drive hard but dont be to overly hard on the car.:)
remove back seats --easy to do and saves about 25lbs.
change your coolant to 65/35 especially if the coolant is 2 or more years older.
put synthetics in the trans and diff.
hope this is food for thought!
olddragger

Oh yea I forgot-- i am BACK to using pre mix. I didnt my last Road Atlanta track days because i had to research the catylator convertor issue(sic). I did and I now run Lucas upper cylinder lube 4oz's per 10 gals of 93 octane gas. There are other good pre mixs out there but Never, I mean NEVER use a castor based pre mix product. It will destory your cat. Car is smoother with a pre mix and a little extra lube never hurts anything.
olddragger

olddragger - can you comment on why you choose Lucas upper cylinder lube over this?
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_214.htm?

Just guessing you must have looked into this one.

If you aren't using stock pads at the track what pads are you guys using?

HP+, OD is running Carbotech Panthers IIRC

HP+? What's that?

The panthers i think are a bit much, i dont want to tear up my disc :(

Hawk HP Plus:

http://www.hawkperformance.com/parts/search.php?year=2004&make=MAZDA&model=RX8&show_street=yes&Submit=Find+Parts+%3E%3E

I've had excellent performance from Axxis pads (on the NSX for track-day use and road use- NSX weighs about the same as an 8). You'll definitely want to go with an upgraded pad since they have more heat resistance than OEM. On the track most OEM pads will begin to fade once the heat builds up. But a "race" pad is not recommended since you'll never get to those hi temps on the street- and the race pads don't work well at all on the street for that reason. Only problem with the Axxis is they have more brake dust than OEM.

One must-do for any new pads is to properly bed them in. Follow your manufacturer's instructions or you can end up with uneven deposits which in turn cause heavy "brake shudder" once the temps get up.

Tape up your headlights and fogs if the track is dirty

I'm running Carbotech XP-8 in the front, and OEM's in the back.

Spin--I chose Lucas because of the ease of availibility-- and it is good stuff. The product you are mentioning is great stuff also. The lucas is just easier for me to get.
The carbo tech panther 8's up front and bobcats on the back are imo the best track pads for the 8. Yes the panthers are not for the street as they are a true track pad and you have to get them up to temps. BUT you can run them for a little while on the street(adverage driving) --say a few days before your track event without any problems. Matter of fact if you do that then you dont have to bed them in. With this setup I only have to change out one axle for the track days. Panthers do NOT eat a rotor any faster than any other track pad. Good bite to them and absoulutley amazing progressive braking with them.
Be careful they will jerk your dentures out.
olddragger

I bought some Carbotech XP-8s which I will use later this month.

Do you guys break them in like they say in the instructions. I'm not referring to bedding them but the instructions say to take them out of the track and work them in for 20 minutes using 60-70% breaking and then do 1-2 hot laps at 100% and let them sit after that. That isn't too practical for me since the club I run with does 35 minute sessions and I'll lose some track time if I do that. My club racer friends say this is not necessary as they will sometimes put fresh pads in the middle of enduro races without breaking them in.

If you are using XP-8s on the street before the event, why wouldn't you have to bed them in? I thought you always had to bed new pads in?

I bedded mine in on the street per the instructions, and took it pretty easy on them in my first session on track. I ran the whole session, but I definitely didn't do repeated threshold braking from 120 before turn 1. I did 1 really hard stop in that session, but the rest were around 60%. The 2nd session was well over 2 hrs later, so they had plenty of time to cool down. I pounded on them for the rest of the weekend with no problems. Rotors look good too.

bedding in pads in not necessary if you are going to do daily driving for a few days. Bedding just deposits the pad material to the disc in a uniform way in a short period of time. Daily driving does the same thing cept it takes longer.
Think about it do you bed in the pads when you buy a new car? Do you think they are "bed in " from the factory? Dont think so.
One thing to do is when you do change pads. clean the disc well.
olddragger

Watch your fuel levels. Depending on the track, and how long & hard you are able to corner the car, the gas tank design (unless this has finally been addressed by Mazada in latter cars) can lead to fuel starvation in long, bending sweepers. IME, at anything less than a quater tank you are chancing sudden, unexpected losses of power in corners. As your cornering speeds go up, the required minimum level of gas in the tank goes up too. With better tires and more experience, I managed to work my car all the way up to requiring just under a half tank of gas minimum to avoid running out of gas in long corners. For a "zoom-zoom" vehicle claim, IMO this is really something Mazda ought to have addressed.

Having to keep your fuel levels above 1/2 a tank, if you get to that stage, means either bringing a couple of jerry cans of gas to the track with you, or making several trips back to the pump to top off.

I found it to be faster before the Rev as all the dyno's show.

HP peeks at much lower RPM. Unfortunately the gear ratio makes you redline it around some corners at some tracks. 3rd does not have enough power.

Oh Ja. becareful, very hard to hear the beep with helmet on. To bad the car isn't louder as it's hard to feel when to shift.

Best way to drive is through the feel and keep the eyes on the road at all times.

Lookin ahead.

I think the stock pads are okay for VIR. Last fall @ Summit Point/Shenandoah I got serious brake fade, but 1) that's a brake-heavy track, and 2) I had the factory brake fluid. Use DOT-4 fluid and you should be okay.

One thing I noticed in the long straight was some "dancing" when I exceeded 100 mph. I still have the stock shocks (20k+) and was thinking of upgrading to some adjustables that I can use for street, track and autox'ing.

Anyone using the Tokico D-Spec? I like the ability to adjust the rears from inside the trunk. I could see several weekend afternoons playing with the adjustments and hitting the back roads. :)

.. oh yeah, and about not hearing that beep, I'm also mulling the idea of a HUD, mostly for the Tach reading.

they'll probably tell you at the track, but no parking brake, use a wedge on the tires or something

also, if its a hot day and you start to hear/feel regular but low frequency vibrations from the wheels... there could be several reasons but also consider tire beading or gumballing. Don't know the technical term. I've only seen this on my Bridgestone oem's.

other than that, take it slow at first... you should always know/feel you are in control.

DSC OFF!

Stay away from gravel traps and tire walls FTW

I hate to bring up such an old thread but I went to the autocross and it had rained before with standing water still on course. I was in the first run group and did my first run without any issues mostly in 2nd gear, I heard the beep nearly the whole 90 seconds. My 2nd run halfway through I noticed that my check engine light was blinking at me.

I stopped in the pits and turned the car off for a few minutes then turned it back on and it was normal so I did my third run. Halfway through my 3rd run I hit some gravel and did a 180 spin. I caught it before stalling and noticed that my blinking CEL was now solid and my ABS light came on for about 2 seconds.

After that run I pulled in and turned the car off. 10 minutes later I checked it and my solid CEL was still on. I drove to a local autozone nearby and tried to use their orange obd2 reader but it just said "link error". I'm guessing it was a misfire since I pulled the - terminal off the battery and the CEL went away and on the way home I was redlining it repeatedly and the CEL didn't come back. The car actually felt MUCH stronger than ever after I did the ECU reset via battery/pump the brakes method.

Does the Renesis get easily thrown off if you keep the car in the red for a long period of time (about a minute straight)?

I saw something similar to this in my first 270 spin in my 8 at an autocross last weekend. I'm guessing that it's the nanny programming in the ECU trying to keep you from getting silly with the car and damaging it.

I saw something similar to this in my first 270 spin in my 8 at an autocross last weekend. I'm guessing that it's the nanny programming in the ECU trying to keep you from getting silly with the car and damaging it.

Well mine actually started blinking at me BEFORE I spun out, the course had a lot of 2nd gear offsets and there was standing water so it was very slick out there. I was fighting the rear and countersteering nearly the whole course at the top of 2nd gear so maybe the extended 2nd gear redline upset it.

I get CEL's on the track every now and then. I've checked them with my laptop at the track and they are always for "2nd cylinder misfire" at about 7500 RPM and low throttle settings. I just clear 'em and continue on with my day ;)

They do reset themselves after a while if you don't do it.

I get CEL's on the track every now and then. I've checked them with my laptop at the track and they are always for "2nd cylinder misfire" at about 7500 RPM and low throttle settings. I just clear 'em and continue on with my day ;)

They do reset themselves after a while if you don't do it.

Will that cause permanent damage to the engine if it's always misfiring? Also if you don't clear it will the engine go to safe/limp mode? What method do you use to reset, pull the battery off for a few minutes and hold the brake pedal down?

I'm a bit nervous about autocrossing mine if the cel will come on randomly. BTW which program/software do you reccomend to use with a laptop? Sorry for the newb questions, only had my car for 3 months and it's the first time with engine problems.

Please excuse my ignorance but I am new also. I am heading out to summit in sept for the mazdadriver session. I have a motorcycle helmet, Is that All I need for safety gear as a novice?

......thanks in advance.

MazdaDrivers only require a Snell 95 or higher motorcycle helmet. if you can prove your helmet meets that requirement, you're good to go.

and read the e-mails that the registrar has been sending you for important event information!

A misfire? Should be more of a power loss thing than hurting the engine, but it's not happening all the time, just once a day or so, so I ignore it. It doesn't go into any sort of limp mode.

I use Dan Harrison's CanScan software to check and reset the CEL.

I'm talking about track days here, not autocrossing. The RX8 is a really good AutoX car and you should just go out and do it with no worries. It's a pretty good track car too.

Oh, and as for "DSC OFF"!

How about: DSC ON until you feel comfortable with it? I drive on the track with DSC on all the time when I'm not really pushing it. The DSC in this car doesn't really smack you down when you set it off, so you're not going to be that much slower with it on than off. Having it on lets you learn the track and line, and then you can turn it off when you've gotten smooth and consistent. It does a great job of catching you if you screw up, so for a new driver with untuned spin recovery skills, it can be really helpful.

Try driving with it on until you can do a whole lap without setting it off (no blinking light). Then turn it off and start working you speeds up gently so that you can learn where the car will step out on you and how much gas or trail braking you can really handle.

I am aware that using DSC on the track means that I'm not a man and that grannies in old Buick station wagons often pass me.

I agree with DSMDRIVER on DSC. When the track is wet I have it on all the time. When it's dry I use it for the first session, till I am comfortable with the track layout. This weekend I will be running on five different course configurations in three days and will use DSC at least once per course.

My opinion, leave DSC on unless you are 110% sure of your track save abilities in emergencies and/or have mastered and know the track like the back of your hand. If you find the DSC is engaging at a certain point on the track, figure out what you did that caused it to engage and work at driving (http:///#) more smoothly the next lap around. When finally you can repetitively lap a track well w/DSC on and not have it engage.....you are then well on your way to having the skill to drive that track wo/DSC and not risking your butt w/bad driving techniques.

My opinion, leave DSC on unless you are 110% sure of your track save abilities in emergencies and/or have mastered and know the track like the back of your hand. If you find the DSC is engaging at a certain point on the track, figure out what you did that caused it to engage and work at driving (http:///#) more smoothly the next lap around. When finally you can repetitively lap a track well w/DSC on and not have it engage.....you are then well on your way to having the skill to drive that track wo/DSC and not risking your butt w/bad driving techniques.

This is assuming a car is completely stock, I'd assume. I have Whiteline sways (you do also as I recall) and wider wheels/tires. A few times I've forgotten to remove DSC and it has kicked in prematurely and slowed me down. Then on successive laps when I've removed it I've driven the same corners several mph faster and the car has been stable with no hint of losing control.

DSC off if you want to learn anything. Just don't drive 10/10th until you learn the course and then only drive 9/10th unless you are competing.

A misfire? Should be more of a power loss thing than hurting the engine, but it's not happening all the time, just once a day or so, so I ignore it. It doesn't go into any sort of limp mode.

I use Dan Harrison's CanScan software to check and reset the CEL.

I'm talking about track days here, not autocrossing. The RX8 is a really good AutoX car and you should just go out and do it with no worries. It's a pretty good track car too.

Right, I meant to ask if your CEL just blinks or if it blinks and then goes solid or goes straight to solid right away. Basically I just want to get an idea if i'm getting a misfire at high rpms like you or if I have a different problem.

I don't want to run the engine with the CEL on/blinking if it's going to cause real damage to the car. By the way is there a thread here about the various can software/cables and where to purchase?

My CEL blinks for a little while then goes solid when I have a misfire CEL.

I'm sure a search for datalooger will bring up all sorts of stuff. They Hymee sCANalyzer and the Harrison CANscan are both popular. But I wouldn't worry about a CEL that much that I wouldn't go to a track without one of those tools. A lot of CEL's are related to emissions (like a misfire).

DSC off if you want to learn anything. Just don't drive 10/10th until you learn the course and then only drive 9/10th unless you are competing.

I'd say autocross with DSC off if you want to learn anything. The track at 100 MPH is not the safest place for your car to learn to control a spin. AutoX'ing and then going to the track will really give you superiror car control skills.

A good race driver rarely needs to use their spin control skills. A smooth, fast line doesn't involve the tail hanging out. There is plenty to learn about driving fast with the DSC on. F1 cars now use traction control and they are faster with it on than off, so DSC is not always a crutch or something that slows you down.

This is assuming a car is completely stock, I'd assume. I have Whiteline sways (you do also as I recall) and wider wheels/tires. A few times I've forgotten to remove DSC and it has kicked in prematurely and slowed me down. Then on successive laps when I've removed it I've driven the same corners several mph faster and the car has been stable with no hint of losing control.

I have RB sways front and rear and Tokico shocks. The DSC doesn't kick in at the wrong time on my car.

DSC kicks in when the car stops doing what you ask it to. It doesn't say "oh look, .9 g's, time to turn on." It works even after you upgrade the car. It turns on when the steering wheel angle no longer matches the curve of the car (in a very basic sense).

Sounds like your definition of fast is a very loose, oversteering car that slides a lot. DSC will go off in these cases, but that doesn't mean it's slowing down a driver that uses a smoother line.

If you're planning on trying out for Formula D, I totally agree that DSC should be off though :mdrmed:

regarding the misfire CEL, if you misfire once, the CEL will blink until you shut the car off, and it will stay off until you have another misfire, then the CEL will stay on.

I did this several times back on a track day weekend in June, fortunately a friend has a OBDII reader that was able to clear it for me and let me get back on the track :)

regarding the misfire CEL, if you misfire once, the CEL will blink until you shut the car off, and it will stay off until you have another misfire, then the CEL will stay on.

I did this several times back on a track day weekend in June, fortunately a friend has a OBDII reader that was able to clear it for me and let me get back on the track :)

Gotcha, that sound exactly like what happened to me. I had some blinking in the middle of a run so I finished it and turned the car off. It went away until the middle of the next run where it started blinking and then went solid.

I reset the ECU by pulling the battery terminal off. Is there a better way to "soft" reset the light like the pumping the brake pedal method 20 times in the first 8 seconds or something else so you can get through the track day and still get to a reader later and pull the code?

BTW can Mazda read your ecu and see how many times you've redlined and for how long each time? My car is BONE stock but I wouldn't want them to check the ECU and claim abuse.

Gotcha, that sound exactly like what happened to me. I had some blinking in the middle of a run so I finished it and turned the car off. It went away until the middle of the next run where it started blinking and then went solid.

I reset the ECU by pulling the battery terminal off. Is there a better way to "soft" reset the light like the pumping the brake pedal method 20 times in the first 8 seconds or something else so you can get through the track day and still get to a reader later and pull the code?

BTW can Mazda read your ecu and see how many times you've redlined and for how long each time? My car is BONE stock but I wouldn't want them to check the ECU and claim abuse.

'best' way i know of to clear CEL code is to get one of those OBDII scanners that can read Mazda's OBD protocol (CAN?) and use that to clear it.

AFAIK, the OBDII memory does NOT record any of those information until an error code event occurs, then it takes a snapshot of all information available and stores it in memory.

it does, however, record how many miles have elapsed since the last time the OBD memory has been 'cleared' ;)

speaking of OBDII scanners, any of you have seen/used this thing?

http://www.davisnet.com/drive/products/carchip_products.asp

a poor man's live data acquisition system :D:

My opinion, leave DSC on unless you are 110% sure of your track save abilities in emergencies and/or have mastered and know the track like the back of your hand. If you find the DSC is engaging at a certain point on the track, figure out what you did that caused it to engage and work at driving (http:///#) more smoothly the next lap around. When finally you can repetitively lap a track well w/DSC on and not have it engage.....you are then well on your way to having the skill to drive that track wo/DSC and not risking your butt w/bad driving techniques.

I agree with leaving it on until your learn the track and can lay down some consistent laps. After you get there, turn that thing OFF (one touch off please, not push and hold off). The DSC being on does reduce throttle response and can hold you back if you have heavy suspension/power mods. Of course, this all depends on the track. I just got back from Tremblant this weekend and i can only think of 2-3 spots where DSC might kick. Now NHIS, lots of places where DSC will mess you up once you start going fast. :spank:

'best' way i know of to clear CEL code is to get one of those OBDII scanners that can read Mazda's OBD protocol (CAN?) and use that to clear it.

AFAIK, the OBDII memory does NOT record any of those information until an error code event occurs, then it takes a snapshot of all information available and stores it in memory.

it does, however, record how many miles have elapsed since the last time the OBD memory has been 'cleared' ;)

Hrmm so that could be potentially bad if I take my car to the dealer for a CEL and it says that the car was at 9000 rpms when the CEL came on. If you don't have a reader is there another good way to reset without pulling the battery? I'm still in the process of researching readers.

Sounds like your definition of fast is a very loose, oversteering car that slides a lot. DSC will go off in these cases, but that doesn't mean it's slowing down a driver that uses a smoother line.

My definition of fast is slow gradual steering imputs and in general taking as wide of lines as possible so I have to turn the least. Whether I do that or not every time is a whole other subject.

My specific example was from driving GingerMan, which is a fairly slick course and does promote a bit of sliding in some areas due to build-up on the track on hot days. I was there for a driving school when this occurred because I forgot to turn the DSC off. Even the instructor commented how much it was inhibiting the speed of the car in those corners - especially turn 9. Also had a friend that has raced SCCA ITS show me how to drive the lines at that track. Anyway, that very brief slide, more like a skip, caused the car to go into panic mode and cooked my brakes. The DSC inhibited me, yet for the few hundred track miles I've logged at GingerMan I've never gone off track there yet. And every time I go there when it is very hot, I get slight oversteer at 9, then the tires catch and I'm off.

Looking at what I just wrote, maybe it is or isn't a matter of how the car behaved before or after I've done my suspension upgrades. Maybe just more a matter of knowing how your car behaves at certain tracks. At GingerMan, the DSC is definitely off.

I've driven a couple hundred miles at Gingerman too, but not in an 8. I know what you mean by how loose it gets in 9. It's also a pretty safe place to push the limits and spin.

I'll give you that some tracks may have corners that are really slowed down by the DSC, but as you say, this isn't a function of the mods of the car, it's a function of the track surface and the fact that the fast line in some conditions actually requires a slide.

If you pull the battery, all the codes and memory are gone, so there's nothing for the dealer to download.

A code a 9000 RPM isn't a problem. The car has a 9000 RPM rev limiter, so that's not a warranty issue. If you haven't modified your car, there isn't really anything that will show abuse in the computer.

The only weird thing from pulling the battery is that it will show only a few miles since last cleared if you take it to the dealer. But if you clear the code, why are you taking it to the dealer? They can't help you because they can't read what's wrong.

There's a fuse you can pull to reset the CEL, but I forget which one.

If you pull the battery, all the codes and memory are gone, so there's nothing for the dealer to download.

A code a 9000 RPM isn't a problem. The car has a 9000 RPM rev limiter, so that's not a warranty issue. If you haven't modified your car, there isn't really anything that will show abuse in the computer.

The only weird thing from pulling the battery is that it will show only a few miles since last cleared if you take it to the dealer. But if you clear the code, why are you taking it to the dealer? They can't help you because they can't read what's wrong.

There's a fuse you can pull to reset the CEL, but I forget which one.

Gotcha, I pulled the battery in hopes of clearing the ECU just in case it was a random occurance and nothing actually was wrong/needed to be replaced. I'm guessing that's the issue since I reset the ECU and so far it's been a week and no CEL again even though I've driven up to redline plenty of times. Maybe all the sliding around in the rain and constant redline in 2nd gear pissed the ECU off and it hiccuped a random CEL.

If it does it again tomorrow at the next event I will leave the CEL on and take it to the dealer. As far as the snapshot of when the CEL occured what will they dealer say if the engine happened to be at 8800 rpms etc.

the OBDII also records the *speed* at which said error code occurred... so try to explain that 'misfire' at 110mph @ 7000rpm, lol

I wish to revise what I said about DSC, Take it on a track by track basis. I just did almost 4 hours today at Pocono. Was on the North, South & East tracks. Used DSC for the first sessions on each track. It was getting in my way on most the infield sections. Didn't get in the way on the super speedway sections. Clearly the infield roads were slicker then the main track but with DSC off I had just the right amount of slide when needed, no killing the throttle at the wrong moments. Big difference. When I was at Watkins Glen DSC was not getting in the way. So the condition of the track is a big factor.

the OBDII also records the *speed* at which said error code occurred... so try to explain that 'misfire' at 110mph @ 7000rpm, lol

Well at autocross speeds rarely exceed 70 mph. That being said I wonder if they could call it abuse if it happened at say redline @ 40-50 mph. I guess I could say I was bringing it up to redline getting on a highway but I'm not sure. Car is BONE stock.

Well at autocross speeds rarely exceed 70 mph. That being said I wonder if they could call it abuse if it happened at say redline @ 40-50 mph. I guess I could say I was bringing it up to redline getting on a highway but I'm not sure. Car is BONE stock.

autox condition should be ok

Gotcha, that sound exactly like what happened to me. I had some blinking in the middle of a run so I finished it and turned the car off. It went away until the middle of the next run where it started blinking and then went solid.

I reset the ECU by pulling the battery terminal off. Is there a better way to "soft" reset the light like the pumping the brake pedal method 20 times in the first 8 seconds or something else so you can get through the track day and still get to a reader later and pull the code?

This is exactly what happened to me at the track yesterday. First session I got a flashing CEL, came into the pits and it went off (I didn't have to kill the car). In the second session I got a flashing CEL, following by a sold CEL. Pumping the brake 20 times to reset the KAM didn't clear it. I took it to a nearby Schucks (Kragen) and they checked and saw a "Cylinder 2 misfire" code, just as other people have reported. They cleared it and it didn't come back. Later in the day I got the flashing CEL and came into the pits to clear it. If it had come on solid I think I would have continued to run and gone to Schucks to clear it at the end of the day. I don't know if I'd go to the dealer with a solid CEL right after coming off the track. The condition of the tires right after coming off of the track would be one indicator of how you were driving. :)

Does anyone know what the blink->solid behavior is? Only code I've ever gotten is the cyl 2 misfire code, but sometimes it blinks for a few seconds and goes solid, sometimes it blinks for minutes then goes solid. Seems like the blinking is trying to tell you something, but I don't know what it is. Maybe "this is occuring right now?"

The condition of my tires is gonna let someone know how I was driving until I replace the tires. I tore off 1/3 of the first tread block row on my front outside tire, and took some pretty good chunks off the rear too the last time I was at Pacific Raceways.

It's a great way to speed up the tire replacement process!

Does anyone know what the blink->solid behavior is? Only code I've ever gotten is the cyl 2 misfire code, but sometimes it blinks for a few seconds and goes solid, sometimes it blinks for minutes then goes solid. Seems like the blinking is trying to tell you something, but I don't know what it is. Maybe "this is occuring right now?"

blinking means it happened ONCE, solid means the error was detected MORE THAN ONCE.

This is exactly what happened to me at the track yesterday. First session I got a flashing CEL, came into the pits and it went off (I didn't have to kill the car). In the second session I got a flashing CEL, following by a sold CEL. Pumping the brake 20 times to reset the KAM didn't clear it. I took it to a nearby Schucks (Kragen) and they checked and saw a "Cylinder 2 misfire" code, just as other people have reported. They cleared it and it didn't come back. Later in the day I got the flashing CEL and came into the pits to clear it. If it had come on solid I think I would have continued to run and gone to Schucks to clear it at the end of the day. I don't know if I'd go to the dealer with a solid CEL right after coming off the track. The condition of the tires right after coming off of the track would be one indicator of how you were driving. :)

Gotcha, we autocross on a blacktop/asphalt type surface and it's VERY easy on the tires. Our local Kragen equivalent autozone does not have the CAN scanner so I couldn't get the codes pulled. I went ahead and pulled the neg terminal off the battery and held the brakes for 5 seconds to reset it. Drove home and then did the brake pedal pump, the car seemed to drive MUCH stronger for a few days after I did the brake pedal pump reset.

Hrmm so that could be potentially bad if I take my car to the dealer for a CEL and it says that the car was at 9000 rpms when the CEL came on. If you don't have a reader is there another good way to reset without pulling the battery? I'm still in the process of researching readers.Last year I took mine in for a CEL that wouldn't clear itself (from a track day). They noted that at the time I had the CEL, I was at something like 7500 rpm and 84 mph. *Blush*

Oh, and about the DSC at the track... At Summit Point / Shenandoah Circuit there's a banked turn. Last year I forgot to turn off the DSC one time and it kicked in right in the middle of that turn. Scared the crap outa me - I thought a tire had fallen off or something!

Hrmm so that could be potentially bad if I take my car to the dealer for a CEL and it says that the car was at 9000 rpms when the CEL came on. If you don't have a reader is there another good way to reset without pulling the battery? I'm still in the process of researching readers.

If I had a dealer that claimed "abuse" because the car misfired while it was running at some rpm below the fuel cut, I'd suggest the dealer talk to my lawyer. There is a reason why Mazda set the redline and fuel cut where they did in these cars, and you - as the end user - have a reasonable expectation that the car should run correctly at any engine speed below the fuel cutoff.

As for recording speed at time of misfire - the dealer isn't in the business of law enforcement. Just because a misfire happened at an extralegal speed doesn't - in my mind - imply any kind of actual abuse of the eqiupment. Again, my question do the dealer would be "If operating the car above 75mph could cause potential damage to the engine, why didn't Mazda's engineers install a speed limiting device? Did Mazda knowingly sell me a product that could be operated in an unsafe and potentially life-threatening manner?" I assure you they don't want to answer that question, because the legal implications would be horrendous.

Just a word on my background - I'm an engineer involved in engine systems design for large self-propelled mining equipment. I'm quite familiar with the protocols and rationale used to develop and set engine limitations. When we set engine limitations, we have to go on the assumption that the machines will be used at any and all combinations of throttle and RPM within the ranges we allow. To do anything less would open us up to litigation in event of a machine failure. The biggest difference between my company and Mazda is that our end users are a little more educated about their legal rights, and a lot more willing to take matters to court (you would be too if you'd just paid $3mil for a machine). They know that we'd need a lot more proof than an engine that was running under factory set limits when it failed to claim "end user abuse".

All very good points, but I'd definitely like to avoid having to go through the hassle of fighting it in court. Mitsubishi actively searched forums and voided the warranties on all of the Evo's they could find that had been to track days or autocross events. From what you are saying it sounds like the owners have a legal leg to stand on, although I don't know the legal conditions of the warranty, but the process of fighting it would definitely suck. Fortunately I haven't heard of any cases of Mazda doing the same. Still, I'd personally rather not test this. :)

All very good points, but I'd definitely like to avoid having to go through the hassle of fighting it in court. Mitsubishi actively searched forums and voided the warranties on all of the Evo's they could find that had been to track days or autocross events. From what you are saying it sounds like the owners have a legal leg to stand on, although I don't know the legal conditions of the warranty, but the process of fighting it would definitely suck. Fortunately I haven't heard of any cases of Mazda doing the same. Still, I'd personally rather not test this. :)

They do paruse the forum in the shadows ;)

Not sure if it has been covered.

Please take care of your brakes. Let it cool down by running a cool down lap with moderate speed, minimal braking.

Then in the pit, do not put on your hand brake, put the car in gear and shut it.

That will not wrap the disc or leave burn marks. I learnt it the hard way.

Not sure if it has been covered.

Please take care of your brakes. Let it cool down by running a cool down lap with moderate speed, minimal braking.

Then in the pit, do not put on your hand brake (#), put the car (#) in gear and shut it.

That will not wrap the disc or leave burn marks. I learnt it the hard way.
You're a perfect candidate to do this DIY and tell us all the results ;)

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=83801&highlight=brake+ducts

Nevertheless, excellent advice, and the last bit about no hand brake, needs to be an absolute ingrained habit!

Yes Spin.

I want to do it so long, but has not get my ass up and do it.

I read some Japanese article about brake cooling and Endless pads. The rotor is say 500C after the session, it will still be above 300C after 5 min sitting down :eek:

500C?? That's 1060F !! Have you measured it at that temp?? My guess is our brakes (http:///#) would be closer to 300-400C in session. Mine were measuring ~280C post session before the brake (http:///#) ducts, ~165C post session with ducts installed. PS I have 2-piece rotors this season, but the temps were only somewhat higher w/OEM rotors.

They do paruse the forum in the shadows ;)

I know. I just meant that as far as I know Mazda hasn't actively tried to void warranties for autocrossers and track day junkies like Mitsubishi has. Big brother is always watching though! :)