Ran my first autocross yesterday on the D-Specs. Also, first event on 710s (in the RX-8). Fresh alignment (1 deg neg camber front left, 1.5 front right, 2.1 rear, zero toe front & marginal toe-in rear). Everything else stock.

Started with the dampers ¼ turn (out of 7.5) off full stiff front and rear. Car was a little loose so I backed the rears of ½ turn, which calmed things down. Left it there for the remainder of the day.

Morning was cold – high 30s or low 40s – and foggy. Dry, but cold asphalt. A “momentum” course if there ever was one. Ran 32 psi first run, then lowered to 30, and wasn’t getting any rollover. G-Tech says my lateral g’s went up 10-20% on the second run, so I think I was correct to lower the pressure.

The car performed well, in my estimation. I was second fastest for both morning run groups, bested by .02 seconds by an EP 510. Morning was mod cars – I ran out of class to get seat time.

Handling was very predictable. Very easy to correct from understeer and oversteer – no twitchiness. Body roll during transitions was there, and yeah, it would be nice to have less. I think I’ll try a Whiteline front bar, although with shipping from Australia, they get expensive.

Ran again in the afternoon, when the sun came out and warmed the pavement. Bumped the tires to 32 psi. First run was 1 sec faster than my best morning run, but I coned twice. Next two runs I just couldn’t get it back, so my best time was still in the morning. On one run I forgot to turn off the stability control (where’s my power?!!!?) and the other I bobbled – I just overdrove the car.

Against the hot-shoes running in the afternoon, I did pretty well. If that one fast run had been clean (yeah I know, this is like talking about “the one that got away” when fishing) I would have placed third overall for the day (raw time). 0.6 seconds behind Tom Kotzian in a Z06, and .4 seconds behind Jim Daniels in his CSP Miata. Yeah, I had more runs, newer tires, the pavement started to cool again when they ran, yada yada yada, but still I’m very stoked about the performance of the car – I’ve been running with these guys for years (in an under-prepared Miata) and never come nearly this close to their times.

So, on to the obvious question - how do the D-Specs compare to Koni Yellows? There’s no way for me to know, since I’ve never driven a Koni car. Like I said, I’d prefer to have more roll stiffness in the transitions (and in the sweepers, of course) and I’m guessing the Konis would deliver that, based on what the D-Spec dyno chart showed. But the D-Specs certainly weren’t slowing me down. I’ll try a front bar next, and, just maybe, I’ll put a pair of Konis on the front to see how that changes things.

Oh and Jason - Liz says hi. :)

great stuff,

good to hear.

just a note. local vendor....

http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductsList.aspx?VehicleID=58&ProductTypeID=13

scroll down

hope this helps.

beers :beer:

Sweet. Thanks for the link.

so then we can expect to see you at the Packwood Tour ... ;)

Oh yeah. The Pro, Evo, then the NT. I'll probably stay all week in Packwood. :Eyecrazy:

I hope to see Joe Goeke at the June NW Region event at Packwood as well.

What do you think of the D-specs on the street? I'm considering getting some for my Evo and since it's my daily driver I want something good for all around driving but something that will make me happy when I do a trackday.

Thanks,
Ike

Disregard... was looking at other coilovers with a similar name.

I too would be interested in knowing how the Konis match up to the Tokico D-specs.

From what little I know - I would imagine there is probably very little detectable difference in the two.

On the other hand, logic tells me there must be some advantage in being able to change both compression and rebound simultaneouly or else they wouldn't have done it. But what do I know?

It is pretty cool to have the cables to change the settings. Just open the trunk and turn the knobs. Time will tell about whether they are competitive. Konis are the safer bet, but I'm like George and like the adjustability without having to spend an arm and a leg. For me, the driver is the biggest limitation. It will be some time, if ever, that I get to the point that the slight difference between Konis and Tokicos will matter.

I deleted my comment, it's not my intention to bash Tokico shocks, if you're happy having a little knob/cable to adjust that's all that matters, I'm tired of :banghead: it's really no skin off my back what you buy/use :Peace:

Cool attitude. :smoker:

TRX8 was referring to the fact that the Tokicos adjust compression and rebound at once. Conventional wisdom is that single adjustables should only adjust rebound, not compression.

While this may be true, the change in compression damping across the range on the D-Specs is so small that I don't think it's an issue for most of us. At full stiff, the compression damping in the D-Specs is about the same as the OEM shocks, so nothing crazy is going on here.

No offense taken. I just know you don't like them. I will delete my comment. And, yes I do feel happy with my little knob:)

And, yes I do feel happy with my little knob:)


:uhh: :uhh: :uhh:

great stuff,

good to hear.

just a note. local vendor....

http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductsList.aspx?VehicleID=58&ProductTypeID=13

scroll down

hope this helps.

beers :beer:

Still a vendor? Their website seems to be down at the moment...

link works for me.

or you can go to the vendors section. and find it.


beers :beer:

Yeah it's working again... Thankx.

This will definitely be my next purchase. I am more of a track guy than auto-cross, so i'll report my findings back to you guys at my next track outing which is coming up on May 19th.

Lets us know how next weekend goes.... Kotzian just installed the konis on his.

I had my first event with them yesterday. Temps in the 40-50's on good, but somewhat dirty concrete. I ended up about two seconds off the pace of the national-level drivers (i.e., past champions and trophy winners) in terms of Pax, FWIW. Only my second time autocrossing the RX-8, and the first time with the V710's and Tokicos. It is an excellent car, and it felt very neutral. I had the shocks at full stiff on all four corners. There was some push, but given when it occurred, it could have easily been my fault (especially since I suck). It warmed up for the later run group, and I think that's when everyone who beat me was faster...but I'll take most of the discredit.

Yeah it's working again... Thankx.

This will definitely be my next purchase. I am more of a track guy than auto-cross, so i'll report my findings back to you guys at my next track outing which is coming up on May 19th.

FYI, if you are going to do the BS-front-bar-only thing, then you might want to think twice about the WL bar. I've got mine installed and it certainly makes the car push on the street. I've compensated somewhat by bumping the front tire pressure a bit, and adding more rear damping, which helped.

The WL bar doesn't turn the car into an understeering pig - I can still adjust the line with the throttle as long as I don't overcook the entry - but in the end I think cornering speeds are down, especially on sweepers.

I'm leaving it on for at least one event, to see how it feels with the 710s. But the MS or even stock bar sounds better to me right now. I cerntainly wouldn't leave it this way for purely street driving.

And yeah, I'm pretty stoked that Tom bought an RX-8. Now I don't have to wait for NW region events to see how I compare to a top driver. And perhaps I can convince Tom to swap cars on one run to see how the Konis feel.

George,

The front of my car sits pretty high following the install of the Tokicos. Have you noticed that with yours? I am about an inch higher than a car with the koni's and 275/35/18 hoosiers. And, I am running 245/35/18's.

First real competition today. The car was very good, and I ended up about a half second off the pace. I ended up with about 39 psi in the front tires, 41 in the back, and full stiff in the back on the shocks and one full turn off of stiff in the front.

With the fronts looser, it was a little hairier through the slalom, it seemed. The car was pretty fast. It pulled the inside front wheel during fast turns.

You'll be about that much higher on the OE shocks than Konis too .... ;) which means a lot less front camber

we pulled -2.5 deg front camber on a stock class RX-8 several weeks ago ... all fully legal :wink2:

Well, I can always switch out the fronts. But I'll be da**ed if I am going to give up my little knobs. :lol:

Well, I can always switch out the fronts. But I'll be da**ed if I am going to give up my little knobs. :lol:
Every man should be happy with his knob. Even if it is little.

You'll be about that much higher on the OE shocks than Konis too .... ;) which means a lot less front camber

we pulled -2.5 deg front camber on a stock class RX-8 several weeks ago ... all fully legal :wink2:


i never even thought about trying to squeeze out some more camber after I put in my koni's... man i feel stupid.

I'm not sure why your car would be higher than stock. I was able to compare my car with an '06 (Kotzian's) on Konis, both with an identical wheel/tire package. Doing the finger test (no snide comments about fingers and knobs, please :)) the tire-to-fender clearance on both cars was identical, at least on the front.

Rumor has it that the lower pressure in the Konis lowers the car. On the shock dyno, the D-Specs measured out to less than half the pressure of the OEM units (314 vs 149) so apparently the D-Specs are lowering the car too.

With both OEM bars in place, I ran a touch more damping on the front than the rears (1/2 turn, I think it was). So, if you have the OEM bars, then I'm sure it was a bit twitchy in the slalom with the way you had it set. With the Whiteline bar, I'm running more rear damping to help keep it neutral.

Hmm, installer error perhaps (my dad must have screwed up, because I know it couldn't have been me)? I will have to investigate. My car did not get loose until the last run, and that was when I went to a full turn loose in the front. It actually stuck very well in the turns, and I tend to drive in such a way (i.e., crappy) that I get a fair amount of understeer. I was also running on decent concrete, and apparently with a relatively high center of gravity in the front.

Thanks. How'd you do against Kotzian?

Before you tear into it you might give them a chance to settle. I didn't keep track of my ride height, so I don't know if the D-Specs do this, but they might.

Kotzian's pretty fast, as we all know. Basically, he was about 1 sec faster than me run for run. On his third run he did a 35.xxx, when I was in the 36's. I pulled off a 35.7 on my fourth & final run. Of course he saw that and had to pull off a 34.9 on his last. So, my best was 0.8 seconds off Tom's. I know I left time on the course, but I'd bet Tom would say the same, given that this was only his fourth run ever in an RX-8. :Eyecrazy:

I'm pretty happy with the results, but I still have some more setup work to do. The Whiteline bar made the car push, as I expected, but when I went with a 5 psi stagger (39/34, on my last run) it seemed to go away. I may leave it on for one more event, and try some toe-out on the front. That should help on turn-in but I suspect it will do nothing for mid-corner push.

But, in the end, I just need more seat time.

That's nothing to sneeze at.

I was running about 41 psi in the back and 38 psi in the front. I am not sure why (great reasoning).

Can't figure out what I could have messed up on the install to make it sit higher. but I don't know where else the height would come from unless I have some freakishly tall stock springs, which would be my luck.