ok just out of curiousity reguardin the turbo greddy uses.........does it have an external wastegate????or is it internal??? now is the reason why people cant go over 9 - 11 psi in it, is becuz it takes it out of its efficiency range........or is it too much pressure for the waste gate n it sticks open...........could someone pm n explain it to me...........i know how a turbo system works im just curious as to that problem with the turbo

for the wastegate issue.. has anyone replaced the stock WG with a aftermarkey one?

(stock as in greddy turbo kit stock)

RX8PR did it when he first had a Greddy kit on his car. He made 290+whp, if I recall correctly.

maddog what kind of bov are u using? have you upgraded any other greddy turbo parts?

Read your note on how you solved problem 3. I would like to do the same to my RX8 here in Chile but want to make sure I do it right. Could you help me with instructions to try to do it right? Any watch outs to avoid problems?

thanks in advance.

Please forgive me in advance in case this has already been asked (i am not very good in searching....) as well as for being kind of off-topic.
After reading the first pages of this thread and in case i have understood at least some portion of the fixes mentioned, i assume that the extra injectors of the 231 BHP version are not needed for the Greedy Turbo Kit.
So here is the question.....
I have a 192 HP RX8 (sold as "CHALLENGE" here in Greece) and i am interested on putting a Turbo Kit on.
Do you think (or know) whether i could do so safely, bearing in mind that the low-power version is missing the extra injectors? (Maybe by exchanging my stock injectors with bigger ones?)
I use it mostly as a daily car and i am more interested in torque upgrade than HP gain. What would be a reasonable, yet safe boost on such a setup?

Thank you again for any reply,

Regards,
George

Recently, I installed the Greddy turbo/manifold and parts of the harness (the O2 dongle) into my custom system. I did this for testing purposes and to address some of the problems people have been having with the system.

The drawback is that the net maximum boost in the intake manifold will be about 2 PSI lower on cars not equipped with boost controllers. Those with boost controllers can program in the desired target boost and the net benefit is that the controller will have finer control over the boost since the cracking point will be effectively lower due to the earlier availability of pressure. .

what does that mean exactly? sorry for the noob question. new to turbo as well.

What does what mean?
I don't understand the question based on the parts you quoted.

You don't understand the net effect on boost pressure after the installation of that fix?

like, what does it mean that the net boost is 2psi lower. example, suppose i were boosting 10 i'd be boosting 8 after the fix? btw love your avatar. also the last 20. :lol2:

It means that after the fix, you will be about 2 PSI lower because the wastegate will judge its opening point based on a different reference.

would the boost gauge be affected in anyway? or will it still read exactly what the turbo boosts? also should i do the fix before or after my tune?

man.... turbos so confusing for first timers like me. i've read so many threads and taken many tylenol pills to kill the headache.

edit: im going to order the interX from mazsport and scott will load a map for me but he said i would still have to take it to a tuner.

You need to study. These are fundamental concepts.
Get these books:

Maximum Boost by Corky Bell (http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-3668663-9570229?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179472311&sr=8-1)
Street Turbocharging by Mark Warner (http://www.amazon.com/Street-TurbochargingHP1488-Installation-High-Performance-Turbocharger/dp/1557884889/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-3668663-9570229?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179472311&sr=8-3)

Buying now...

Both of those books should be required reading for anyone who is getting into the aftermarket turbo game.
Moreover, if one can't understand what the books are conveying, one shouldn't be messing with FI.

The Bell book is pretty deep, but he does a good job (I think) of bringing the science down to earth at the end of each chapter.
The Warner book is a bit looser and more general, but he is a turbo guru (he is the owner of Simple Digital Systems) and he gives a good genral overview from a practical stand point.

Bear in mind - neither of these books have any rotary content.

You are the man MM, I got the Street Turbocharging One and How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman, I have 9 months to research before I get home, so time is not a problem. Thanks again.

uhm..... im going to purchase these for my own reference for learning, thanks btw MM. My problem is.... i already got the turbo and going to get it installed at a shop. i think i know how to do the fix #2. i just wanted to understand what that 2psi boost thing had to do. ill figure it out sooner or later. =) thanks MM!

Look up general gas law on the internet, that will help.

I will paraphrase " The functions of volume, temperatur and pressure are related. A change in any one will affect a corresponding change in the others"

Temp and Volume / Pressure are directly proportional

Volume and Pressure are inversly proportional

Help any?

^^ Probably not.

More simply - if you tell the turbo to open the wastegate, it will.
In the original configuration, you tell it to open when the manifold reaches 6 PSI.
After the fix, you are telling it to open when the turbo hits 6 PSI.
Because of losses in the system (flow reduction in the piping and intercooler), the net pressure in the manifold will be lower.

Now that I am doubting my sanity...

MM, when you say flow reduction etc, you are reffering to the cooling effect of the intercooler (temp down - PSI down) and the volume differences in the system as the air travels (volume up - PSI down) Right?

Well, flow is also reduced by restriction and obstruction.
Since the turbo is a centrifugal compressor, much of its energy is the velocity at which the air exits the scroll.
Throw a bunch of extra turns and passages in its way and the air looses pressure as it looses speed.
There is always a drop across an intercooler, but not all of it is because of the increased charge density.

The pressure at the outlet of the turbo is always higher than the pressure in the manifold.

ok i think i understand now. thanks alot mm! and kane for trying to help. even though you confused me and threw me off. haha.

Well I tried....

I guess it helps to be a diver, air pressure, volume, heat etc are the name of tha game.

To illustrate a lot of times we will fill a ballon, slowly heat it up / cool it down (volume change) and take it a few feet underwater (volume change)..... same principles, different industry.

Edit: I am really not trying to be an ass, but I thought I had this knocked and now am not so sure. How does airspeed increase PSI? Technically, only an increase in pressure (in a rigid contained such as an intake pipe, scuba jug, etc.) IE forcing more air in a rigid space - which creates pressure and heat. The speed that this occurs only matters because faster compressing creates MORE heat, so when the charge cools, you lose more of your pressure. If volume of rigid space goes up, pressure goes down and charge also cools as a byproduct. I can't see how flow creates a pressure increase other than as heat / volume changes.

Yeah, the gas laws apply as do all the thermodynamics.
But, sometimes the practical "impracticalities" are more important.

MM, too fast for me, I was trying to edit my post. :lol:

Well I tried....

I can't see how flow creates a pressure increase other than as heat / volume changes.


It's the decrease that is relevant in this case...caused by friction so too speak.

How does friction decrease pressure? Friction creates heat which would increase pressure.

Friction increases volume, which increases pressure at the restriction.
After the restriction, the pressure is lower.
However, as noted earlier, a centrifugal "compressor" doesn't actually compress air - it accelerates it. This should be compared to a positive-displacement compressor that actually creates pressure as it moves air.

Honestly, I am not really the best person to be discussing this stuff because I don't always have the best immediate grasp of all the math.
I am usually operating on net experience in this area for which I then find the corresponding math.:banghead:

Ok, thanks MM. I guess I am close enough on the principles. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something weird.... waiting for my books now. YESSSSSS.

heat | volume | pressure

Change any one and the other two are affected.
Hold one constant and change a second, the third takes up all the slack.

A turbo is interesting because it affects density through inertia, rather than compression.

General Gas Law to the rescue!!!

Update from Wiki:

In an idealized sense, the dynamic compressor achieves a pressure rise by adding kinetic-energy/velocity to a continuous flow of fluid through the rotor or impeller. This kinetic energy is then converted to an increase in static pressure by slowing the flow through a diffuser.

So it does use speed... but the diffuser "rams" the kinetic air into a fixed volume slowing it down and creating a higher PSI. I think.

^^ Yes. Exactly.

I am hooked! When I starting thinking about this stuff in terms of diving, it clicked. I have been reading all day about FI, engine compression, timing, EFI etc. I always knew how they worked but nothing about tuning. This stuff is cool. I no longer hate new EFI cars.

At least you don't have to get into bubble modeling with the car :D:

Wanted to install Greddy into my RX-8, but would not be able to drive it on the high ways of Cali. if I did. Not if I wanted to keep the registration up. Found out the Greddy Turbo is nto street legal in CAli.!!!:banghead:

^^ Great first post, Einstein.
Since when does everyone in Cali mod their car on CARB rules?

I took a class in college on turbo machinery and, frankly, the involved math was not as interesting as I would of hoped. I'd rather rely on experimentally derived compressor maps and just work out the thermodynamics math.

Based on your fixes, can it be assumed that the kit can now work reliably, without any further modification? I understand that nothing beats a custom tune, but are these 3 fixes the "silver bullet" to the troubles with this kit? And in doing so making it work how it was originally supposed to, as someone would want it, as a daily use vehicle?

No. Never make any assumption of the sort.
The fixes get the parts all working together correctly. However, there is still the need for a proper tuning session.
If you leave every other aspect of the kit alone, it will probably be 90% good.

No. Never make any assumption of the sort.
The fixes get the parts all working together correctly. However, there is still the need for a proper tuning session.
If you leave every other aspect of the kit alone, it will probably be 90% good.

Awesome, thanks for the help and clarification :)

Ok, here goes. I've been reading around trying to help a friend out who just bought a 2004 rx8 with greddy kit installed. It is the older version with e-manage blue. All my knowledge is basically honda related but I love anything boosted so I am helping him out (and I get to drive a rx8 around for a bit :ylsuper: ). I really like the rx8 but $$$ won't let me get one. Anyway, the car accelerates very well progresively when starting from 1st gear and shifting all the way to way thru with no problem. AFR's look really good. The problem (like many had before him) is when you are cruising and slam on the pedal. When you hit WOT while cruising it will boost but the afrs go extremely lean (16). I read fix #3 and hope thats will fix it but I would like to know if the p2 wire cut applies to the e-manage blue, ultimate or both. Sorry if the answer is in my face, I've been reading thru but there is soooo much info its hard to keep track. I've seen many go from e-blue to ultimate to inter x. I downloaded the e-mamage update 1.49 and was going to try one of the maps I downloaded here but then read about the greddy ugrade which seems to be more of a fix then an upgrade. Should he also get the upgrade and do the 3 fixes. The real lean condition is what is the real concern. I can fine tune the maps for him but the lean condition seems to be problems with the way it utilizes all the maps. Thanks in advance.

does it go to 16 afr and stay there, or 16 for a moment before dropping down?

Actually I'm not too sure. I think it stays at 16. I'm not sure for 2 reasons: 1- He has a autometer wideband so I'm not sure if it reads any higher ....... I will verify that. 2- When it hits 16 and we can hear the pinging or detonation I tell him to back off.... I would hate to be the guy that helped him break his motor. Is there anythng else I should check?

Thanks!

The re-wiring of the P2s will work with both, but I highly suggest the e-manage Ultimate update for the system.
There are just too many variable that I am no longer familiar with on the blue to offer advice.

Ok. so the best bet is: get the greddy upgrade (e-ultimate, blocking plate etc....) use Tims380SeveredInjectorMap13.zip and do the 3 fixes.....fine tune from there.

You can download a newer MAP from my site.
Don't use the blocking plate and switch the injector wiring to the format outlined in the "fixes".
The Ultimate comes wired with the sub-injector controller hooked up to the secondary injectors, not the third-stage "primary 2" injectors.
While this will work, it isn't compatible with any of the newer MAPs and probably isn't the best way to wire the thing.

Thanks. I went to your site and it is mad cool. I spoke with my friend and he said I had the go ahead to order the upgrade but he also said he wants to up the boost a bit more (a couple of pounds, maybe 3-4). With the what was mentioned before is there anything that should be changed or added for a couple more pounds of boost? I'm going to make sure he figures out how far he wants to go with it because if he then wants a bit more then he might aswell order injectors while he's at it. He already has a 255 fuel pump installed.

You are not going to go past 8 or 9 PSI on the original injectors without problems.

You can install the secondaries from a 4-port (automatic) RX-8 to give you enough headroom to go into the 11 PSI range on that turbo.

I've seen similar scenario, I bought once a soft hose and every time it would boost it went lean then it would run right. I guess the hose contracted and when it boosted it expanded and readings weren't precise.

so does this only applies to the ones who're using the e-management? or also applies to people who are running the interceptor too?

Obviously, only #2 applies to the Int-X, which needs fixes of its own to be street-friendly.

ic, thanks for you reply!
and for #2, you were talking about with out the boost controller I will lose about 2 psi in the intake manifold, so what is the net maximum boost in the intake manifold really means? does it mean if I don't have the boost controller, my car won't spool as fast (or as soon?) and will I still have the max psi?
thanks?

so is what i said was right?

Kinda hard to totally answer the question. Basically, if your wastegate is going to open at say 8 PSI, and you run the signal line from the turbo output then by the time it reaches the manifold, it will be say 6 PSI, so you will only make 6 PSI at the engine. If you then add a boost controller, depending on what kind, you will delay/stop/lower the signal for the wastegate speeding spool time and allowing you to dial the boost back up to 8 PSI at the manifold, but your wastegate signal will be 10 psi.

Make sense?

ok...so no matter i do the mod #2 or not, im gonna lose the 2 psi anyways right?

Ok so I have read this thread a few times, and I have seen everyone talking about the Emanage Blue. I believe I have a later kit that came with the Emanage Ultimate. My question is, are the fixes in this thread applicable to the Emanage Ultimate also? or are they just for the Blue. Does the Ultimate still have the same problems as the Blue? Or is that why they changed it to the Ultimate? Also are the maps that are downladable here compatible with the Ultimate?

This is what I have installed: Complete Greddy turbo kit w/ Emanage Ultimate, HKS SSQV BOV, And HKS Twin Power Ignition. All installed following instructions included with the Greddy kit.

My main problem so far is that I have a flashing CEL 90% of the time. I took it to my old shop and tried to check the CEL but had no luck communicating with the computer. I figured it would't but it was worth a shot. I am also wondering if the HKS Twin Power may be causing the flashing CEL, from what I know most flashing CEL's are due to catalyst damaging misfires.

The spiking issues I understand now and will be doing the fix on that as soon as I have time. As for now I just keep my foot out of it.

I also have experienced some detination, but I also assume that will be taken care of with the addition of the maps in this thread.

You still need the restrictor; and change the wastegate signal.

If you are getting detonation and a CEL - something is wrong... could be tuning; ignition etc.... typically a totaly stock factory EMU install will not trip a CEL or ping - but that is NOT a guaruntee.

Are you logging your engines performance? Is the EMU tripping any errors itself? Do you have an AFR gauge?

I need to go back and re-edit the top posts in this thread to encompass the changes in the e-manage and the kit itself.

You still need the restrictor; and change the wastegate signal.

If you are getting detonation and a CEL - something is wrong... could be tuning; ignition etc.... typically a totaly stock factory EMU install will not trip a CEL or ping - but that is NOT a guaruntee.

Are you logging your engines performance? Is the EMU tripping any errors itself? Do you have an AFR gauge?

Well I did get the kit second hand, and I do not know if the Emanage has been unlocked or if someone has been playing with it. I don't have the support tool so I can not monitor anything. I am going to order the support tool this week. If anyone can tell me the best place to get it that would be great. I have found it on a few different sites including links here.

I do have a setup, I'm not sure if it came with the Ultimate or not (option maybe), but it has an extra O2 sensor the runs directly to the Emanage. So I am assuming that I don't need another wideband. I suppose I will find out more when I get the support tool.

I didn't think that the kit should cause a CEL, but I wasn't sure. This is my first time dealing with a obd2/ aftermarket turbo car.

Also what is the restictor that you are talking about?

or did you meen resistor?

I was referring to the oil line restrictor - to keep your turbo healthy. THe sotck setup delivers too much oil.

The support tool is a FREE download - so go get it now! If you do not know whether you are driving on the factory tune or not....... well, lets say that may not be the best decision ever made.

An AFR is a seperate gauge that reads the AFR and displays it while you drive - it can also be added to EMU and then EMU will log it.

Actually, the programming tool for the EMU isn't free, only the updates.
You can download the whole thing from my site, however.

Learn something new every day! Thanks for clarifying Jeff.

Well I will have to download that when I get home. Will the support tool work properly on Vista? And I will have to order a cable, don't have that either. Thanks for the help so far guys. I'll let you know what I find out as soon as I get it hooked up.

You don't need a special cable for the Ultimate - just a regular USB A/B cable.

That is also good to know!! I think I will be checking this out sooner then later now! Another question, does the software work on Vista?

does the software work on Vista?

That I can't tell you.
I wouldn't touch Vista with a ten-foot-pole.

I downloaded it, and like I said in the email I sent you, it seems to be working just fine with Vista. I'm going to get a cable tomorrow, so I post some updates then

Ok, so I have the cable and software now. It works just fine with Vista.

So I have been playing around with it tonight. First off it is unlocked, and some one has been playing with it. I downloaded the base map, and installed that and it seems to be doing a little better. Second I did the updates that were on MM's site. It needed both of them.

I played around with installing some of the maps I found here and also on MM's site. Two of the maps on here I couldn't even get to load. I downloaded them and went to open them in the support tool and it said nothing was there.
I also loaded MM's current boosted maps. That my car did not like at all!! It barely ran, it didn't want to boost, it died on me and did not want to restart. In no way am I downing him. That map is probably just not right for my setup.

I'm probably going to work on it tomorrow to try to get fixes 1 and 2 done. Is there anything I can do to help you guys find out how the injectors are wired on the Ultimate, so I can get my car running right.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I am a total newb when it comes to tuning. I can build a car and turn a wrench like no other, but when it comes to tuning them I got nothin. Thanks for all the help so far!!

Have you updated your firmware on the EMU? Its up to v1.13 (http://www.trust-power.com/03electric/Ultimate213_Vmanage104.exe).

Also - my MAPs will only work with my wiring scheme, so read up on that.

I did the 2.12 update that is on your site. I saw the 2.13 on Greddy's website I have not done that yet. If that is what you mean, you said 1.13

Oops. I thought I had 2.13 on my site. I'll update it.

Hey "MazdaManiac"

Is there any chance you could explain these steps with pictures to make it easier to understand?

I need to do step 1 & 2 but I am not confident I can pull it off without better instructions. :)

Hey "MazdaManiac"

Is there any chance you could explain these steps with pictures to make it easier to understand?

I need to do step 1 & 2 but I am not confident I can pull it off without better instructions. :)

You are kidding, right?
What did you do? Read just the first post and then hit reply?

You are kidding, right?
What did you do? Read just the first post and then hit reply?

To be completely honest, I did not read the whole thread but I did skim thru the whole thing. :lol:

I bought the int-x today so only fix#2 applies to me. You said and I quote:

"Obviously, only #2 applies to the Int-X, which needs fixes of its own to be street-friendly"

What fixes does the int-x need to become street friendly?? :)

To be completely honest, I did not read the whole thread but I did skim thru the whole thing. :lol:

Read the whole thing and then search for my posts on everything else.
I'm not going to explain it all again.
Every possible question you could possibly conceive has been answered already.

Read the whole thing and then search for my posts on everything else.
I'm not going to explain it all again.
Every possible question you could possibly conceive has been answered already.

That's the problem, I tried already. It's hard to find the right info when I don't know exactly what I am looking for.

Were talking a neddle in a hay-stack in this 14page thread.

Turbo - the real problem is that you are trying to find answers to questions about the IntX in a Greddy thread. Search for "Interceptor" and threads started by "MazdaManiac" .

It took me about 5 seconds to find this...
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=101869&highlight=Interceptor

Turbo - the real problem is that you are trying to find answers to questions about the IntX in a Greddy thread. Search for "Interceptor" and threads started by "MazdaManiac" .

It took me about 5 seconds to find this...
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=101869&highlight=Interceptor

Thanks tiddy!

After reading that thread I am pretty worried. I don't have anyone near me to accomplish those complex tuning issues. I would not feel comfortable doing any of that myself!

The fact that weather effects the tunes really worries me. I drive my car all year round and outside temps vary from (-22 to 86 degrees Fahrenheit) :Eyecrazy:

How does Int-X do logs???????

I know it is off topic - but if I can get that info I can maybe help you out in a few months... my automated tuning software should be ready by the end of Spring.

We have the same temperature variation issues here. Everything is a choice. I chose the Ultimate for my turbo kit because it handles the environment issues a little better but knowing that I could probably make more HP with the Interceptor. I would rather have an OEM like driving experience than a dyno chart that says I made x HP.

We have the same temperature variation issues here. Everything is a choice. I chose the Ultimate for my turbo kit because it handles the environment issues a little better but knowing that I could probably make more HP with the Interceptor. I would rather have an OEM like driving experience than a dyno chart that says I made x HP.

I agree.

I am starting to regret not doing more research before I decided to purchase the int-x.

I always had the impression that the Mazsport int-x was the best choice. :icon_no2:

The Int-X works fine.
It just has a few quirks that some (like me) will find unacceptable.

I agree.

I am starting to regret not doing more research before I decided to purchase the int-x.

I always had the impression that the Mazsport int-x was the best choice. :icon_no2:

It depends on what you are looking to accomplish.
Where do you live?

It depends on what you are looking to accomplish.
Where do you live?

My goals are to run as much boost as I safely can on the stock fuel pump and injectors with a SAFE tune.

I live in Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Don't second guess yourself about buying the Interceptor. It is a great product. You will easily be able to run the Greddy Map that Scott@Mazsport can provide you.

All engine management systems have their own issues and the interceptor is the most widely used EMS for the RX8. Learn as much as you can about tuning it. I'm sure you can ask Jeff (MazdaManiac), Vlad (rotorocks), or Scott questions. Just make sure you have done your research first. They don't enjoy answering the same questions over and over again.

My goals are to run as much boost as I safely can on the stock fuel pump and injectors with a SAFE tune.

I live in Ottawa, Ontario Canada

PM sent

That's the problem, I tried already. It's hard to find the right info when I don't know exactly what I am looking for.

Were talking a neddle in a hay-stack in this 14page thread.

But you "wrote" this whole page on your website that details how to the fix all the issues with the GReddy kit, so why are you confused? : http://www.turborx8.ca/?page_id=9

lol. pwned.

Yup.

Some major pwnage there....


S

Jezzus Fing Kristmas.
Didn't even give me credit.

I spread pwnage all over the world. Thank you and good night

He is the Dark Knight of pWn!

Watch yourself or I might get you....again.....

Me?!? I actually wrote the stuff he stole!

Like I said to MazdaManiac in PM's.

I had no idea that by copying/pasting something from a forum was considered "stealing". All I was trying to do was take valuable info about the GReddy turbo kit and list it on my site. It's not like I am making profit from someone elses work.

I deleted the page and it wont happen again.

All you have to do is put a credit somewhere.
It's just like quoting a book.

Me?!? I actually wrote the stuff he stole!

You already forget? Go back to Rotary Math........


Like I said to MazdaManiac in PM's.

I had no idea that by copying/pasting something from a forum was considered "stealing". All I was trying to do was take valuable info about the GReddy turbo kit and list it on my site. It's not like I am making profit from someone elses work.

I deleted the page and it wont happen again.

It is stealing because you simply copy & pasted it onto your website without giving him credit for it. It MIGHT have been okay if you first asked to use it and THEN posted it on your site with the proper credit given, but you did neither. It's still stealing even if you aren't making any money off it. They (Jason [mysql101] and Jeff [MazdaManiac] took the time to come up with original and helpful material, so should you.

It is stealing because...

Actually yes.
Look at my sig picture. See what it says in fine print?
did I have to do it? no, but... It is called giving credit.

I think you quoted the wrong line, Vlad

I think you quoted the wrong line, Vlad

Maybe.
It's late, and i am (yet again) drunk :lol:

But i was trying to agree with the fact that the the credit must be given.

does anyone elses fi car break the tires loose with just the throttle in 2nd gear? oem size tires. Not bragging here--just learning. I shifted from a breath on full throttle 1st gear--to 2nd, let the clutch engage then floored it. Dang tires broke loose (on interstate entrance going downhill--no sand or anything) for a second until traction control activated. I didnt expect that. 1st gear yea --anytime, but 2nd gear?
outside temps were in the low 40's
oscd

With DSC off - it was hard for me not to break it loose in 2nd and sometimes 3rd when getting on the freeway - after almost going sideways - I left it on! I am not a good enough driver to get crazy yet.

Fun stuff eh?

My car does the same. It's a nice problem to have :)

Mine will let loose in 3rd if I just stand on it.
I was getting on the 10 just a few minutes ago and I was tooling along in the CD lane, doing about 40 in 3rd.
Once I passed the gore, I just floored it and it stepped out.
I wish I had the TCS off!

This will be my last question about the fix#2 because I will be performing this fix tomorrow. :)

Would it make any difference to tap the charge pipe (just before the throttle body) instead of the turbo outlet pipe?

You want the signal to come from as close to the turbo as possible.
Otherwise, the WG will flutter as the cold side piping pumps up and blows off over and over again, several times a second.
Its fairly mild, but it will surge the compressor a bit, which you want to avoid.

You want the signal to come from as close to the turbo as possible. Otherwise, the WG will flutter as the cold side piping pumps up and blows off over and over again, several times a second.
Its fairly mild, but it will surge the compressor a bit, which you want to avoid.


That's good to know - as a turbonewb I was going to take the WG signal from downstream of the intercooler - to regulate an 'actual' 7 psi at the throttlebody.....


S

Nah. You want the turbo to regulate itself. The .00001 second of "lag" you create by doing it the right way won't hurt you.

I did the fix#2 today but I ran into problems.

In the instructions on the 1st page it says to buy a 1/8" barb to 1/8" NTP fitting with some 1/8" vacuum hose. Well the fitting on my boost solenoid is 3/16" barb to 1/8" NTP fitting.

So really I needed another 3/16" barb to 1/8" NTP fitting tapped into the turbo outlet pipe with 3/16" vacuum hose.

Also the vacuum cap for the intake manifold is not 1/8" either. That is also 3/16"

Besides that it was easy. :)

Most silicone hose will stretch to fit.

Most silicone hose will stretch to fit.

Yeah, that's what I did until I can get the right fittings and vacuum line tomorrow.

For whatever reason, when I try to rev to 9,000rpm it stops around 7,000 and sounds like I am hitting a rev limiter.

Wierd.

For whatever reason, when I try to rev to 9,000rpm it stops around 7,000 and sounds like I am hitting a rev limiter.

:banghead:

Uh, don't do that. What are your A/Fs when that happens? Any weird noises?

:banghead:

Uh, don't do that. What are your A/Fs when that happens? Any weird noises?


My AFR are always below 11.5 and no weird noises. I am thinking the solenoid is acting weird due to the bottleneck on the tiny 1/8" vacuum line because that's the only thing that has changed.

I will replace the fitting and hose with the right size and try again. If it does the same thing, I will take a video. :)

The boost control solenoid has nothing to do with your rev limit.

The boost control solenoid has nothing to do with your rev limit.

I just replaced the NPT fitting and I also used 3/16" vacuum hose and it made no difference.

Here is a short video of my rev limit problem. It feels like my wastegate is going nuts.

http://www.turborx8.ca/movies/problem.mpg

Looks like a rich misfire, but it could be an ignition coil or (less likely) your CAT.
10:1 at low-load is not always lit properly by OE coils.

Looks like a rich misfire, but it could be an ignition coil or (less likely) your CAT.
10:1 at low-load is not always lit properly by OE coils.

I am thinking it might be the coils too because the engine dies on me when I clutch in and coast to a red-light at least once per day. It also takes 2-3 seconds to start the engine when it's cold.

Looks like I will be ordering the mazsport ignition solution sooner than I thought. :)

Should I replace the spark-plugs 1st?

Plugs can't hurt, but probably won't make a difference unless they are totally fried.
Your vacuum looks good, so your compression is probably OK.

Plugs can't hurt, but probably won't make a difference unless they are totally fried.
Your vacuum looks good, so your compression is probably OK.

Thanks once again for your help.

I am gonna have to start paying you soon for all this technical support. lol

Thanks once again for your help.

I am gonna have to start paying you soon for all this technical support. lol

I owe him SO much beer....:)

Mmm. Beer.
I've been meaning to visit Quebec again. I used to love going up to Montreal and Quebec in the winter time.
Kinda long drive from Phoenix...

Mmm. Beer.
I've been meaning to visit Quebec again. I used to love going up to Montreal and Quebec in the winter time.
Kinda long drive from Phoenix...

I am 10mins north of Ottawa. Montreal is a 2hr drive.

If ever your in the area, I would love to pay you to street tune my car. :)

Wishful thinking I guess. lol

Hey this might be a lil'bit out of the subject but is the Intake Manifold Blocking Plate really nessesary to install for the greddy turbo kit??? Image Link http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/jin9631/intake.jpg

it's not, don't even bother with it.

I have had the Greddy kit for 1 1/2 years now with the "fix kit" and havn't had any problems. It probably doesn't matter.

it doesn't hurt, but it isn't much use either. may as well not bother installing it. Who wants to convert a 6 port into a 4 port anyway?

sounds good then, not needed. and if anything I can always just put it in, thanks guys.

Hey mysql101 where in Fl are you at?

The intake blocking plate is GReddy's half-ass way of fixing the problem with the turbo not being able to flow enough air above 6500RPM.
Also, did I get the correct part for fix #2? I followed TurboRX8 and got a 3/16" barb x 1/8MPT. What's the difference between MPT and NPT? And my dog was very interested in the piece when I was taking a picture. She thought it was a treat...

Metric Pipe Thread and National Pipe Thread.

NPT is what America uses, at least thats what I was told.

As long as I use: correct size drill bit, correct tap/die, thread sealant, vacuum hose fits - it will work?

Yep yep and yep.

The intake blocking plate is GReddy's half-ass way of fixing the problem with the turbo not being able to flow enough air above 6500RPM.



So is it worth puting in or not ?

That is up to you.
I never had one.

And will the car stall above 6500 RPM's ???

Stall? Why would it stall?
The plate just turns the motor into a 4-port.
If you are using the GReddy supplied harness as it ships with the kit, its already doing that, anyway since it turns off the APV motor.

I guess I should update the first post in this thread since there is so much more information.

Well the kit i got came with the greddy E-manage Ultimate with a harness that's what I will be using do i need to change anything ?? Help

whats a APV motor??
also any other changes i should do ???

did fix#2 and recirculated my bov now my car is able to hold idle really good now and doesnt die out when I rev it but I still have an issue of the car having a hard time starting. It takes a good 5+ cranks to actually get the car started but it struggles to start(I have to hold down the throttle to get it started.) any ideas? fuel pump maybe?

Holding down the pedal makes it harder to start. Leave the pedal alone.

What are you doing for an intake on the kit? Is it the way it ships?
Original injectors?
Trailing plugs and coils?

1. using the stock intake that came with the kit

2. ships?

3. yes im using original injectors

4. it cannont be plugs because I just recently changed it to brand new RE9B-T and RE7C-L. So im guessing coils then? because I never had them replaced since I bought the car. It never gave any issues so I had no reason to change it.

Coils are easy to check. Pop them out and take a look at the top. If you have a whitish circle... throw em in the trash and call mazsport. It will not cost you much more to get a much better set of coils than to replace the stockers.

Just because they have a circle on the coil doesn't mean its bad. But I agree that upgraded coils are the way to go.

Odd... I went through 3 sets of stock coils, and everytime they went bad, they had that white circle on the top.

New coils develop a white circle almost immediately.
The two checks for the coil are with a timing light and a good VOM.

When doing these fixes, do you have to have the car tuned, or can you just run the stock GReddy tune?

It just seems that everyone is tuning their cars, but I really only want a decent bump in power with great driveability. no tuning for big power.

power is only half of it. You need to make sure it's tuned properly for your car's individual setup. Otherwise it might do something unexpected and you find yourself dropping $6k on a new engine.

Hello im lookin for the legend by the name of mazda maniac.. i was told you were the man.. Anyway hers my problem.. I grew up around 8 cyclinder v8 ford and chevy motors my entire life, i just traded my 03 cobra convertible in for the rx8 two months ago, so i have no idea really whats going on with this rotary. I bought a brand new motor with zero miles.. i got it and im going to put about a 1000 miles on it without going over 6 rpms by friday so i can put it in the shop to have the greddy kit boost gauge wideband and boost controller installed. I have an agency exhaust with cat delete pipe.. but im not going to put exhaust on if that one at all until after break in at 6 psi.. But I have heard bad things about the cat delete pipe with the e manage ultimate.. that the one i got. What im wondering is what do i need to do first so i can start boostin.. my car is slow..Now since i can change the pistons and that kinda stuff you know what i mean.. what do i do first. i dont wanna cut any corners.. Should i start with fuel?? like pump injectors regulator etc... Then what or what should i do, eventually i wanna get to about 12 psi to 15... but with this turbo i wanna be at like 9 10.. what do i need to do?? please help

Hello im lookin for the legend by the name of mazda maniac.. i was told you were the man.. Anyway hers my problem.. I grew up around 8 cyclinder v8 ford and chevy motors my entire life, i just traded my 03 cobra convertible in for the rx8 two months ago, so i have no idea really whats going on with this rotary. I bought a brand new motor with zero miles.. i got it and im going to put about a 1000 miles on it without going over 6 rpms by friday so i can put it in the shop to have the greddy kit boost gauge wideband and boost controller installed. I have an agency exhaust with cat delete pipe.. but im not going to put exhaust on if that one at all until after break in at 6 psi.. But I have heard bad things about the cat delete pipe with the e manage ultimate.. that the one i got. What im wondering is what do i need to do first so i can start boostin.. my car is slow..Now since i can change the pistons and that kinda stuff you know what i mean.. what do i do first. i dont wanna cut any corners.. Should i start with fuel?? like pump injectors regulator etc... Then what or what should i do, eventually i wanna get to about 12 psi to 15... but with this turbo i wanna be at like 9 10.. what do i need to do?? please help

^if you run that much psi, the greddy turbo is going to crap immediately....about 9psi is max on the stock greddy, and that's pushing it

also, ditch the emanage ultimate and get the cobb accesport. You will need a different intake though. MazdaManiac can fab one or go to www.mazport.net for a greddy CAI upgrade. Check this out too: www.mazdamaniac.com

the stock fuel system is fine for the greddy turbo kit

this car is not going to be anything like a cobra mustang power wise.....I hope you are not looking for that type of power....because you bought the wrong car man...

screw that ill get it, im plannin on upgrading turbos, i just need to break in the new motor.. im just wondering what i should start wiht fuel and seals, or what else can be done... you know what i mean im not to sure on the rotor eninge and i just wanna second opinion from the shop thats installing it.. thanks for the input htough i needed to know that 9 psi on the stock greddy.. what exhoust do you reccomend?

screw that ill get it, im plannin on upgrading turbos, i just need to break in the new motor.. im just wondering what i should start wiht fuel and seals, or what else can be done... you know what i mean im not to sure on the rotor eninge and i just wanna second opinion from the shop thats installing it.. thanks for the input htough i needed to know that 9 psi on the stock greddy.. what exhoust do you reccomend?

ok.

exhaust at you point does not matter.. common sense does. get some..

hint. 9psi on the greedy without a tuner that knows what they are doing = fail and money you dont have.

you can pay me now or you can pay me later..

beers :beer:

with the exhaust im not talking about now, i mean later.. i know it doeesnt matter on this turbo, im using this turbo to breakin the motor, then im going to upgrade the turbos, they have a 20b twin turbo motor wiht 48k mmiles on it for sale to at the shop for 4900 im thinking about buying that and rebuilding it and then getting some real horsepower.

with the exhaust im not talking about now, i mean later.. i know it doeesnt matter on this turbo, im using this turbo to breakin the motor, then im going to upgrade the turbos, they have a 20b twin turbo motor wiht 48k mmiles on it for sale to at the shop for 4900 im thinking about buying that and rebuilding it and then getting some real horsepower.

wow,

this covers all of the stupid..

i think this thread is done..

beers :beer:

man you guys are dicks, ill figure it out

screw that ill get it, im plannin on upgrading turbos, i just need to break in the new motor.. im just wondering what i should start wiht fuel and seals, or what else can be done... you know what i mean im not to sure on the rotor eninge and i just wanna second opinion from the shop thats installing it.. thanks for the input htough i needed to know that 9 psi on the stock greddy.. what exhoust do you reccomend?
a good exhaust esp. for FI is the turboXS system. It is a true 3" exhaust and comes with the catless midpipe. It's a good price as well.

As far as upgrading the internals of the engine....you really don't have to worry about it if you have a rock solid tune. Once you do upgrade your greddy turbo, a safe whp is around 300-330 or so....once you get to that point, injectors should be replaced. I believe the stock fuel pump is good to 350whp or so....There is an upgrade though at www.mazsport.net.

Keep in mind, we have never seen a turbocharged Renesis dyno at 400HP at the wheels. If you want that kind of power, than maybe that 20B is a better option for you, although the cost of fabrication to get that to fit is going to be outrageous. GL, and don't mind some of the veterans here, they can get cranky at newbies. There is a lot of great info on this forum, do some reading! :)

Keep in mind, we have never seen a turbocharged Renesis dyno at 400HP at the wheels.

We haven't?

We haven't?

that comment is as dirty good as your now avatar!!!

and i guess i have to say good job.

:)

beers :beer:r

We haven't?

I think he meant we in the royal sense as in "the forum" . If you have seen it quit messin about and put it up .....

I think he meant we in the royal sense as in "the forum" . If you have seen it quit messin about and put it up .....

sorry,

was looking at the royal avatar..

i have to say.. 325 to 350 to the wheel.. i think that covers most of it..

but nice avatar again.. buy ez.. has a nice different side..

beers :beer:

Scott - have i ever told you that I don't understand WTF you are saying half the time ? :lol: - must be a translation issue

Scott - have i ever told you that I don't understand WTF you are saying half the time ? :lol: - must be a translation issue


nice new avatar rack. royal.. this is the new mm avatar..

would have to bet in the real world what was seen that was productive would have to have been in the 325 to 350 whp..

as to the ez avatar comment. check you pm..

zesty.

btw, you think faster than i.. :)

beers :beer:

We haven't?

Hinting _gently_ that you have cracked 400 won't convince me that you have. Why not post the dyno if you have one?

Hinting _gently_ that you have cracked 400 won't convince me that you have. Why not post the dyno if you have one?

assuming your statement is right on the money, i seriously doubt he gives a rats ass if you would believe it or not:eyetwitch

assuming your statement is right on the money, i seriously doubt he gives a rats ass if you would believe it or not:eyetwitch
If he didn't give a rats ass , he would not have even mentioned it .........

assuming your statement is right on the money, i seriously doubt he gives a rats ass if you would believe it or not:eyetwitch

I just don't get why if the dyno is there, it wouldn't be posted. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, in fact it probably does somewhere, I'm asking why he refuses to show anyone.

I just don't get why if the dyno is there, it wouldn't be posted.

There is much that you, and many others, don't get.

There is much that I don't get, I'm sure.

However, I have nothing to gain here other than to mention that there is much more happening out there than what is represented on this forum.
The forum is just a communication tool and, like all forms of communication, it can and will be manipulated to the advantage of the speaker.

There is much that you, and many others, don't get.

There is much that I don't get, I'm sure.

However, I have nothing to gain here other than to mention that there is much more happening out there than what is represented on this forum.
The forum is just a communication tool and, like all forms of communication, it can and will be manipulated to the advantage of the speaker.

LoL, not that I was expecting a straight answer.

I suppose if you have it, eventually we'll end up seeing it.

Anyone know what happened to MadDog's maps? They don't seem to be here anymore...

Im working on Greddy fix #2, and Im having a hard time locating the nipple. I have been to every parts store, home depot, lowes, ace hardware, and no one carries 1/8 nipple. The smallest I can find is 1/4. I found this one at work, but the nipple is alittle short and its brass. Can I get away using this one or should I keep trying to find a longer nipple? Thanks,

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/Caman355/IMG00121.jpg

that is to screw into the turbo housing right ? Can't see why that would not be ok .

that is to screw into the turbo housing right ? Can't see why that would not be ok .

Yes, that is what is going to be tapped into the pipe attached to the compressor side of the turbo. My main concern was how short the nipple is, (is it long enough to securely hold the hose) and brass has a lower meltling point than stainless and not real sure how hot the compressor side gets. Looks like brass melts around 1600f so I would think that shouldnt be a problem. Just wanted to make sure I was good before I got it in there just for it to fail. Thanks! :)

LOL Brass isn't going to melt with your intake air, it can handle engine oil and coolant so yeah, it's fine. And the length of the hose barb isn't a problem

Just wondering how you all adhere the nipple to the pipe?? I found a better fitting which is stainless steel and the nipple is exactly the same size as the waste gate actuator. Talked to a couple friends and they think the 90 degree pipe that connects to the turbo is to thin to tap, being as it would only hold with about 3 threads. They also said its hard to weld stainless steel and cast aluminum. Just looking to see how everyone adapted their fitting on their pipe. Trying to get the install done this week and this is my last hang up. (Hopefully)
Thanks!
Adam

no you can tap that pipe.

no you can tap that pipe.

Cool, thanks a lot! I was thinking I could also put a bead of JB Weld around it. Heading to Lowes to see if they have NPT tap set. Hope this works! lol

It works. That's where the GReddy kit I bought had it tapped. Just use some teflon tape on the threads to ensure an air tight seal

no you can tap that pipe.

that sounds dirty. :)

beers :beer:

Seems like alot of the images pertaining to peoples greddy fix#2 have expired can anyone post some new pictures for me and for others who would like to see the fix to better understand it?

just put a nipple on the side of the turbo inlet pipe

i just drilled a hole just small enough for the nipple and threaded it in, slowly

i dont have a pic, sorry :(

that would actually be the turbo outlet pipe. haha

very simple though. if u have the greddy turbo you can do it on the cast aluminum 90 degree outlet pipe. drill a hole, tap it, and screw a nipple fitting on.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/3062251783_ca1e92a681.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/3062257739_d719470d37.jpg?v=0

^there we go!

Gregs greatly appreciated its exactly what i thought based on the reading but in my head i was just doesnt seem right.

that would actually be the turbo outlet pipe. haha

very simple though. if u have the greddy turbo you can do it on the cast aluminum 90 degree outlet pipe. drill a hole, tap it, and screw a nipple fitting on.
Oops my bad. You're right. :D:

Out of curiosity I did a run this morning without the check valve on the jet air line (that connects pre turbo) .
I had always thought that no check valve here would cause a boost leak but my log seems to suggest that it made absolutely no difference at all .
Can't understand why boost did not bleed back into the intake (under vacuum ) . All I can think of is that air goes past the nozzles so fast it creates a low pressure area in front of the nozzle opening . :dunno:

ahh that pic of fix #2 helps a lot. this is prolly a stupid question, but for those of us with boost controllers connected to the wastegate, would you just put a T fitting there in this case?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/tfittinginfix2.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/?action=view&current=tfittinginfix2.jpg)

ahh that pic of fix #2 helps a lot. this is prolly a stupid question, but for those of us with boost controllers connected to the wastegate, would you just put a T fitting there in this case?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/tfittinginfix2.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/?action=view&current=tfittinginfix2.jpg)

No the EBC goes from the outlet, to the EBC THEN the wastegate actuator.

soo something more like this then?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/tfittinginfix2-1.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f391/DoubleGoose/internets%20tools/?action=view&current=tfittinginfix2-1.jpg)

Yup. Just make sure you wire it to the solenoid correctly.

Awesome, will do. Thanks Kane!

Kind of retarded to ask..

Can anybody link me to a tool that would be suitable for pressure testing the wastegate? On the factory GReddy I don't necessarily plan to run a boost controller until after the turbo is rebuilt, and want to adjust my wastegate tension accordingly.

http://www.mityvac.com/

Get it at Harbor Freight or someplace similar (Home Depot, Lowes).

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread and I don't want to look through 18pages but for fix #2 Brettus had mentioned to me about running a line and Tee'ing into the Jet Air line on the intake charge pipe just before the throttlebody, this will account for any losses throught the IC and what not... of coarse that shouldnt matter with an EBC but for those of use without one...

Let this be the start of teh replacement BHR exhaust manifold news .... :)
.

Let this be the start of teh replacement BHR exhaust manifold news .... :)
.

wat ?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/555944/895260.jpg

she needs to shave those pits.

Let this be the start of teh replacement BHR exhaust manifold news .... :)
.

Yeah, I guess this would be a good spot to do that.

Five months later .....

Five months later .....

And what have you accomplished in that timeframe?

The prototype has already been through 4 track events, 3500 miles of normal driving, Auto-x and some Dukes of Hazard type nonsense.

How long do you think we need to test it before we turn it loose? How lax are your standards?

You really are a serious jackass. Just STFU and sit on your hands for a while. It isn't like you are gonna buy one, anyway.

p'wnd

And what have you accomplished in that timeframe?

The prototype has already been through 4 track events, 3500 miles of normal driving, Auto-x and some Dukes of Hazard type nonsense.

How long do you think we need to test it before we turn it loose? How lax are your standards?

You really are a serious jackass. Just STFU and sit on your hands for a while. It isn't like you are gonna buy one, anyway.

funny, I was just bumping the thread to see where you're at if anywhere :dunno:, the only intended negativity is all in your own jackassed mindset, you pwned yourself as usual :kiss:

I don't intend to either wait on you to deliver 2+ years later (if ever, maybe) or ever be a slave to your locked programs, you will never see a dime of my business personally, not that I otherwise have anything against you as a person

as for my standards, let me know when you get down to 2700 lbs with full interior, AC, etc. I will also gladly challenge you to a non-ported engine dyno test any day. As a non-business oriented member I don't have any need or desire to trump certain achievements. If anything, I have gone in the opposite direction over time, including the deletion of many such past threads.

you guyz need to just grab a brew and take it down a notch :)

cant we all jusss get along :rofl:

as for standards .... how many worthless scuzzbucket, douchebag, jackass, assholes gave away a perfectly good low mileage engine just to help another forum member out of a jam .... nobody pays me for my assistance, and I assist plenty of people here privately, they all know who they are no different than also having done the same for yourself

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=213698

you no more know anything about the specific particulars of me and my life any more than anybody else here knows yours ...

wut, I get along here jusss fine :lol:

Late sub