Since the Mazda 6 forums that I frequent are down and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon, I thought I'd offer my review...or two cents... on the automatic RX-8 in this forum.

Just a little warning: it's a nasty one, and if you happen to own an automatic RX-8, either stop reading, or prepare to be offended.

I'm going to jump right into it by saying this: There's no way in hell I'll be trading my 6 for an RX-8..not even for the 6 speed manual because of its price.

Let me put some numbers into your heads first..

The Mazda 6 I own is a 5 speed manual 6s (the "s" denoting the v6 220hp stock engine) in Lapis Blue and cloth. This included a Sports Package, Bose Package, sports grille, and alarm shock sensor upgrade.

Its got an MSRP of $23,720, though I scored a deal and took it for $23,000 out the door for it.

An RX-8 in automatic starts at a base MSRP of $25,700 (where I live at least).

Six speed manual starts at a little over 27 grand.

Even though you 8 owners could care less, here's what I got for that price in these two packages:

The Bose Package included 6 Bose speakers (2 tweeters), a modest subwoofer in the trunk, and a 6 disc cd-changer.

The Sports Package is basically a sportier exhaust, better looking front and rear bumpers, side moldings, a rear wing spoiler, 17" wheels (instead of the standard 16" ones), and more stylish display gauges.

At any rate, I've owned the 6 for about 5 months now, and yesterday after my oil change at the nearby Mazda dealer, I decided that it was time to test drive an 8 because one near the waiting room caught my eye.

They only had two RX-8s that weren't already sold/pre-ordered aside from the one in the showroom: one was a fully loaded black 6 speed, with over $30,000 or so on the sticker; the other was a silver automatic in a Sport Package with cloth for almost $28,000. The salesman was reluctant to let me test drive the 6 speed since I told him I was just "checking out the car," so I went with the automatic. Big mistake.

The interior was amazing looking (like the exterior), and it was comfortable as hell. (And this was just cloth.) That's saying a lot for what's supposedly a sports car. The driver and passenger's air conditioning vents are just like the ones on my 6 though. Steering wheel controls are also identical to my 6's, except for the shifting buttons of course.

When I was about to pull that gorgeous looking silver automatic out of the lot, I got excited and buckled my seat belt thinking, "Alright, let's see what kind of a kick an extra $4,000 would give me," even though it was just an automatic.

For about 15 minutes, I drove the hell out of this car, stopped at a redlight and then floored it (did this twice actually, and the salesman didn't seem too thrilled). Within 6 minutes, I realized that the speed I was looking for just wasn't there. I couldn't believe how awful the performance was in this automatic sports car. It had a nice pick up when you reached higher RPMs, but from a dead standstill, it simply sucked.

Reaching 60 from 0 felt like forever in this RX-8 I test drove. As a wild guess, I'd say it's gotta be somewhere over 8.5 seconds. Is that where the 8 comes from in this car's title? (Just joking.)

The pathetic part is, my 6 reaches zero to sixty somewhere around 6.7 - 6.9 seconds. Hell, I almost bought a 6 in automatic because I had such a difficult time finding one in manual, and if I remember correctly, even THAT seemed like it was faster than this auto 8!

After I got back to the lot, I pounded the salesman with a bunch of questions about the pickup and non-sporty performance. He uneasily admitted that the automatic 8 has less horsepower than my 5 speed sedan does. Bleh. What a let down. (Especially at that price.)

While it's completely understandable that an automatic is obviously going to be slower than manual, Mazda really seems to have taken the zest and fun out of the 8 in this 4 speed automatic version. The automatic RX-8, to my surprise, has about 50 less horses than the manual 6 speed. I don't know why the hell they've decided to do this, but what I can tell you is that there's no way I'm going to trade in my Mazda6 + spend an extra 10 grand on a 6 speed RX-8 that isn't even fully loaded.

A BASE MSRP of $25,700 is one hefty frigging price to pay for one of the slowest automatic sports cars I've ever had the chance to drive. I'm not kidding either when I say one of the slowest. For that much cash, you can get a 5 speed Mazda 6s that is fully loaded, and it has a helluva lot of better performance. Yeah, the RX8 is hands down more stylish and attractive than the sedanish looking Mazda 6, but when you're spending that much cash, looks should come secondary to performance. The automatic RX-8's performance is comparable to today's automatic V6 Mustang (hell it's probably even slower), and you can get that car for under $20,000.

A $27,500 sticker places you in either a 6 speed manual with no packages, or an automatic with the Sports Package. "Truthfully, you're not going to get both performance and luxury out of an RX-8 unless you buy one in manual and come up closer to the $30,000 range," says my cunning little salesman. That statement of his blew the whole trade-in idea right there for me.

I was under the misconception that the 4 speed automatic would be only a tad bit slower than the 6 speed manual. In reality, these two versions of the RX-8 seem like they're two completely different cars. Review sites say the 6 speed can do 60 in 6 seconds flat (maybe even in the upper 5s), so I was expecting... say... maybe mid/high 7s to get to 60 seconds in the automatic. That would be a much more acceptable performance given the $2,000 price decrease. Instead, the auto seems to have the performance of an automatic sedan. Sorry but, that's just not worth it.

I left the dealership today disappointed about what I learned, and I'm definitely going to be sticking with my manual 6s. I'd rather waste money modding my 6s to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed RX-8, than trade it in and blow $10,000 on a manual RX-8 with no packages included.

Many of you would disagree with that, but I'm looking at the cars by performance versus price. Style comes into play here as well, but then again, the 350Z is quiet stylish too if I recall.

But oh man...I still can't wait. Some hotrod in his new, automatic RX-8, is going to pull up to me at a stoplight, rev his engine a few times thinking he's got some hot shit under there, and then I'm going to die of laugher as I leave his ass in the dust with my modest looking sports sedan. Hey, at least I've got something to look forward to.

between the two, which car would have a more lasting appeal on everyone's mind? the 8 stands out hands down

however, i think that your review is justifiable by the standards you set. It's good to have a bit of criticism on a great car such as the 8 that way mazda can re-evaluate what they can do to improve on their products. Definitely brought up some good points to consider...

Since I have test driven (twice) the AT 8s that my dealer has, I'll briefly chime in.

Did you drive it in fully automatic mode or did you try the manual mode? (it's late and I'm tired so Im not going to re-read your enitre post)

I found the AT to be a blast to drive. It seemed at least as fast (but I thought much faster) than my ol 2k Celica GT-S AT.

Since I don't plan to race it, 0-60 times mean poop to me.

Haven't we all learned our lesson about racing from "Back to the Future 3"? ;)

Our Mazda 6 owner has a point which has ben made before. The 8 is a sports car to be driven manually utilising the gear ratio at high revs. The automatic is passive and a lot, lot slower.

But which car look the better - no contest and should he meet a manual at the light he will be in for a shock.

Also. seems a very long piece just to slag of the 8?

rael

Wasn't the HP drop for the automatics done because the tranny couldn't handle the high rpm?

Things that are more sad: 163hp Cooper S's with quite a few problems for about the same price as the 6s.

Originally posted by rael
seems a very long piece just to slag of the 8?

My thoughts, too. Wouldn't have thought a Mazda owner would have this much vitriol against the AT 8. Seems more like he's trying to convince himself he has the right car.

I've also heard opposite opinions from those that have driven both that say the AT 8 is ever so slightly quicker than the 6... or at least feels so.

Originally posted by A 6s Owner
I left the dealership today disappointed about what I learned, and I'm definitely going to be sticking with my manual 6s. I'd rather waste money modding my 6s to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed RX-8, than trade it in and blow $10,000 on a manual RX-8 with no packages included.

Other options for you to consider:
1. Modding a Honda Accord to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed S2000 or maybe even NSX.
2. Modding a Nissan Maxima to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed 350Z
3. Modding an Audi A4 to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Audi TT

If you want an even better value for money package:
1. Modding a Honda Civic to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed S2000 or maybe even NSX.
2. Modding a Nissan Sentra to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed 350Z
3. Modding an VW Beetle to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Audi TT


I think you make a wrong mistake buying a Mazda 6, IMHO you should :
*Bought a protege instead and mod it to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Mazda RX8.

What an amusing article. So an extra $4000 should get you much faster straight line performance in your opinion. One question, did you try any corners or just accelerate from a stoplight in a straight line in your 15 minutes. And the fact you didn't like the auto means that you will hate the 6MT because (loaded with much more equipment than your current car) it costs more. Haha.

Reading your lengthy review I would hazard a guess it is one of the worst of the dozens I have read here - does nothing to capture the 'soul' of the car or any of it's abilities - I doubt you would have any clue as to how to enjoy it if either RX-8 was given to you free. Winning makes some good points, but I think you need a Neon SRT-4 for under $20k and 0-60 in under 6 secs without any mods.

Hmmm, I wonder why they even bother building cars for $50K + heck if they don't do 0-60 in under 3 secs what's the point? ;)

Well..he offered up his opinion and was prepared to get blasted for it. Good for him.

The only reason Mazda offered this car with an auto tranny was so they would not alienate potential buyers who love the car, but would not want the manual transmission. I know one person in particular who cannot drive a manual transmission due to health issues, but loves the concept/style of the car and is seriously considering getting the 8. If no manual option was available, he would not be able to get the car.

You almost always compromise performance when choosing a car equipped with the auto, and that compromise is very significant in the 8. I think that is the point the original poster is trying to make. Doesn't mean you can't have fun with it.

Part of the problem is rotaries and automatic transmissions don't work well together - the nature of the engine and the low torque just doesn't do well.

Mazda put an automatic in the '8 for the same reason they did in the '7 - to sell cars.

IMHO the saddest thing I've ever driven is an automatic 3rd gen RX-7 - that's just awful. Takes all the spirit out of the car. But, the 3rd gen was basically a race car with a license plate on the rear bumper - it's a whole different beast that the 8. The automatic is acceptable, at least, on the 8, but not optimal.

Dale

As some has stated, the RX-8 needs to reach out to a larger general audience. By allowing it in both AT and MT, it gives people more options. For someone like my mother, who is a grandmother to my niece and nephew. She wanted a sporty car and had considered the Miata at one time. But the things that held her back are the fact that it's both a convertible and only a two-seater. The RX-8 offers her everything that she wants. A sporty car that has enough room to handle both her grandkids and still have room for one more person. She also prefers the AT version even though she can also drive stick too. So, it's not always about the performance of the car, but rather the fun factor that comes with it. People will spend the extra money to get that sports car look and feel rather than to be driving around in a plain jane sedan. I've test driven a 6 and it's not impressive as far as speed goes, but that's because it wasn't intended for it. It's also most certainly clear that with the RX-8 having less HP with the Auto tranny, it was meant to have a blast driving. Try if you will, driving both cars again through some corners and you'll see that more of the time was spent in the handling characteristics than straight line accel.

If I was a sales rep pounding up and down the motorway on a daily basis carrying carpet samples , then I guess the 6 is a fine car....:)

I want a little more from the RX8 however....

Originally posted by dcfc3s
Part of the problem is rotaries and automatic transmissions don't work well together - the nature of the engine and the low torque just doesn't do well.


Actually, the first generation RX-7 with an automatic was not too bad at all. Car and Driver admitted to being big fans of it- I think I still have the back issues of the magazines. (I have every copy of Car and Driver that featured the 1st RX-7... :) ) They said that when it was available, a line from the keyboard formed all the way down the hall.

My 1981 RX-7 was an automatic. Got it in college- I paid my way through, so my dad offered to buy me a car (up to $5,000) if I paid for the insurance. I looked for eight weeks for a nice five-speed RX-7, and they were all beat to hell. We were sick of looking and he was ready to tell me to forget it... then we came across what turned out to be my RX-7. It was priced at $4,995 at a Volvo dealer, and it was in beautiful shape. Drove great, and he said, "Do you want it?" I thought for a moment... I really wanted a five speed. But what was more important... going fast or impressing girls? "Impressing girls" I thought. A 1981 RX-7 in primo shape was QUITE a ride for a college student in 1986. Besides, I will get to 60 just a second behind the five-speed. So, I got it, and it provided me with several years of trouble-free fun.

I still miss that car (sniff). I will scan a picture or two and post them later. What is funny is the only cars I have ever owned that still give me the warm fuzzies are my old RX-7 and my current Miata. Mazda has a way with sports cars...

That said, I have to comment on another thread. Someone posted saying, "G35 sedan automatic or RX-8 automatic?" Everyone is like, "Get the RX-8!" C'MON, people! I can see a comparison between the six-speed RX-8 and the G35 coupe or G35 sedan... but the auto version of the car, no way. Maybe I am biased as a G35 sedan owner... but all humans have biases, so it is not anything to apologize for. But the G35 sedan has the room of a 5-series BMW at beneath the price of a 3-series, with very strong straight-line performance and very capable handling. True, the interior bits need a little work, but supposedly they will be upgraded next year. But still, I can't see any serious driving enthusiast preferring a very slow RX-8 automatic to a capable and effortlessly fast G35 sports sedan.

Originally posted by DonG35Miata
My 1981 RX-7 was an automatic. Got it in college- I paid my way through, so my dad offered to buy me a car (up to $5,000) if I paid for the insurance.

By the way... the insurance was $1,600 a year, quite a chunk of change in 1986! And I had no accidents or tickets! The penalty of being 19 years old. I worked two jobs every single day all summer to pay that insurance... and it was worth it. Yes, I am a car nut!

Originally posted by A 6s Owner
Many of you would disagree with that, but I'm looking at the cars by performance versus price. Style comes into play here as well, but then again, the 350Z is quiet stylish too if I recall.


It's quite apparent that you believe performance is all in a straight line. As someone else commented, did you even try to push on any corners, either slow or fast ones?

The RX-8 is a sports car - handling is a huge part of that equation, considering just acceleration is missing 80% of the picture. A Miata is far sportier than your Mazda6, but it's slower. That's not what it's about, but I'd bet that you believe your 6s is sportier because it's faster in a straight line. You're obviously entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, but you're missing out on a large part of the fun of owning a sporty car. (PS - FWD doesn't cut it against RWD).

Want performance vs. price? Then you bought the wrong car. The Altima 3.5SE and Accord will blow the doors off a Mazda6s in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile stakes. It's pretty funny that you place such a premium on acceleration, when that's not the strong point of the Mazda6 at all. The differentiating factor, what makes the 6 stand out from the FWD family sedan crowd, is it's excellent handling/ride balance. Handling, as in going around corners.

It's too bad that you need to justify your own purchase by denigrating another car using such limited, narrowly focused criteria.

PS - Mazda used the lower power engine in the auto RX-8 because none of their current transmissions can handle the 9000 redline of the high power Renesis engine. By the 2006 model year, the RX-8 will have two new transmissions available - a 5 speed auto with the full high power engine, 9K redline and all, and a 6 speed SMT with the high power engine. As before, the forte of the RX-8 will still be great sports car handling with room for 4 people, no matter which version of the engine or transmission is under the hood.

Regards,
Gordon

I guess with the 6 forums being down, this dude has nothing but time to waste, and apparently way too much of it.

What gets me is how a fellow 6 owner could diss any car's speed, when our cars arent exactly known for it in the sedan class. We fare a lot better with the 5 speed, but even manually equipped, the Accord and Altima can spank us. It's all good though, because we can easily return the favor should the road get twisty, but still.......

Bottom line, Mazda clearly isnt going for the fastest in class with either the 8 or the 6. They're going for class-leading style and handling prowess, and doing a good job if you ask me.

Hmmm... this thread is getting interesting. Gordon makes a lot of good points.

Maybe it should all boil down to one thing, when comparing sports/sporty cars: what is the most fun to drive? My Miata is hardly a high-performance machine, but of all vehicles I have ever driven, it is still the fun-to-drive champ. The Mini Cooper S is a close second behind the Miata. In terms of pure FTD for me, lagging behind these two are the Boxster, 300ZX Twin Turbo, 350Z, Ferrari 308 GTSi Quattrovalvole, BMW Z4, Mercedes SLK, 996 series 911 Carerra, prior air-cooled 911... all cars I have driven. I have yet to see a correlation between price and FTD factor, but this is probably because I have not gotten in the seat of a 360 Modena yet- nor am I likely to in the near future, LOL. However, C&D did say in their comparison test that the Miata will give you the same grin as a supercar... I'll still take the Modena!

I have never driven an auto RX-8 or a Mazda 6 V6 5-speed sport... but based on my knowledge of the market and the two cars, it would be my guess that the 6, so equipped, would offer a more fun, more involved driving experience than an RX-8 automatic. Part of this would be the involvement of the five-speed, part of it would be the power.

RWD is better than FWD, but there are plenty of very capable FWD cars, and we don't drive at the limit all the time. And as Gordon said, the Mazda 6 is a good handler.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
By the 2006 model year, the RX-8 will have two new transmissions available - a 5 speed auto with the full high power engine, 9K redline and all, and a 6 speed SMT with the high power engine.

By "6 speed SMT", do you mean Sequential Manual Transmission? Man, that's what I've been waiting for! When I first saw the RX-Evolve, I was so hoping the sequential shifting was going to make it to production. I was more than a little disappointed it didn't. The full power 8 with sequential manual 6 speed would be heaven! I hope Mazda does it!

Actually in today's market $25k, $30K loaded is inexpensive, esp for a sportcar with the performance of the RX8. I saw the Mazda 6 at the car show- its no comparison.

I agree with many on this thread. I think it's funny for someone with a 6s to be commenting on straight-line speed - the Duratec isn't the worlds most potent V6.

To me the most important numbers/specs on the 8 to consider are:

50/50, 3000lbs, ~0.91g, $28k, rwd, 9k red/rotary smoothness and revability in general, and the necessary one, 6-spd. I haven't driven a 6s and in the back of my mind I'm still considering it if I have to go a little more value when I make a purchase hopefully next year, but while it sounds somewhat agile in its class, a tad-chunkier fwd sedan with a not-so-potent V6 is not going to capture the nimble, tossable spirit the 8 harbors. I'm willing to take comparitive test drives but I doubt even a 350Z would at $28k, probably not even at the track edition.

Everybody has their own idea of whats ideal or not I guess. I was just about to buy a 6s when I found out about the RX-8 myself. And I had decided on the 6s over all the other cars in that price range for one reason. FTD as stated before. It didnt have the best speed off the line, but I care for a car that feels good all the time over a straight line rocket anyday. Thats why I got a RX-8 over a EVO. I had heard about the EVO and went to look at one. Just the apearance put me off, and when I got in, it felt like I was testing that Neon SRT4 all over again. Chintzy interior, but when you lay the hammer down, it goes. In a straight line. Anything else and it was substandard to say the least.

The RX-8 isnt as fast off the line. But gawd damn does that sucker feel good to me. The whole time I was test driving it I had to remind myself that it was a car and not a mini-jet it felt so good. The same exact reason I had prefered a 6s when looking in the lower price range.

Now bitching about a automatic rotary for not being a sprinter off the light, well, hell, what did you think it was going to do? Bake cookies? And comparing the cars for that alone is very flawed IMO. Just look at the interiors. The seating quality. The sound of it all. Hell, just compare the quality and look of the center consoles. I gladly waited the 4 months and paid the extra 4K to go from a loaded 6s to a 6 speed MT Sport RX-8.

See you at the stop sign bubba.

hello!? duh its gunna be slow, its automatic! However this is not always the case. Some drag cars use automatic trans and are faster than manual transmission cars because less power loss during shifting with a torque converter rather than a clutch which cuts power when disengaged. I think the 6 is a great looking car, and raced it at mazda rev it up and it was fun to drive but it really didnt seem fast at all (maybe cuz it was automatic?). still I think you are comparing apples to oranges, the mazda 6 is a v6, while the rx-8 is a rotary engine. so that said, I think spending $35k on the rx8 was a reasonable price for what you get considering the other alternative vehicles that can be purchased with that amount.

"...that's not the strong point of the Mazda6 at all. The differentiating factor, what makes the 6 stand out from the FWD family sedan crowd, is it's excellent handling/ride balance. Handling, as in going around corners..."

Thanks. I was wondering just what the heck was the strong point of the Mazda6. I remember those commercials now. Yeah yeah, the 6 skidding & sliding around in the dirt. Very dramatic.

I'll tell you how I came to buy my RX-8. I went online to check out info on the 6, and there it was, the 8. After playing online for quite a while, I decided to at least go & check out the 6 at the dealer.

I walked knowing the 6 was not what I was thinking it might be.
I walked into my salesman's office to start the ball rolling on pre-ordering an 8. And I didn't look back. See, I fooled myself into thinking that the new 6 was gonna use a lot of what made the MX-6 a fun to drive car, and go from there. It's not. It sits way too high, like a Ford Taurus or something. The MX-6 is even lower than the RX-8. It's about like the RX-7 in height. That center console looks so cheaply ugly to me, that really honestly killed the rest of my interest in the 6.

The RX-8 feels a lot like my MX-6 when sitting inside. It's really amazing to me how Mazda can take a tight cockpit & make it feel like you still have more than enough room for comfort. I drive my MX-6 to work 38 miles one-way, Monday-Friday. I never get tired of driving it! The sucker is not muscular by any stretch, but its fun to drive. I earn my respect on the off ramps if not anywhere else. :D The car is over 10 years old & over 180,000 miles & it will still be my daily driver while my 8 slumbers in her beauty, in the garage.

OK, I'm getting off the MX-6 / RX-8 comparison cuz I just know I'm gonna get flamed, even by my buddies here. Rightfully so if they do, but only if I would not say that the RX-8 is the car that takes the successful cues of the MX-6 and the RX-7, then leaves at least the MX-6 way-in-the-dust.

I'm gonna stop, cuz I could go on for quite a while here. Anyway, to compare the Mazda6 to the RX-8 is such a joke.

Originally posted by pelucidor
[B]What an amusing article. So an extra $4000 should get you much faster straight line performance in your opinion. One question, did you try any corners or just accelerate from a stoplight in a straight line in your 15 minutes. And the fact you didn't like the auto means that you will hate the 6MT because (loaded with much more equipment than your current car) it costs more. Haha.
[B]

...this is exactly what i've expected to hear from Joe American though. he's not the first, nor will he be the last.

their loss, thank god (as it could mean my gain, many years from now)

Few Points I would want to make:

- from what I read from your review, you bought the wrong car, the better choice would have been the Altima V6. More power and a Japanese Engine.

- you went in with the impression that the RX-8 auto was going to have more power than your current ride, (when it is NOT), well, for sure you are going to be disppointed...duuh.

- seriously wondered how can you NOT feel the smoothness of the engine or the excellent handling of the car.... if anything, you should at least notice the RWD power delivery ?

Bottomline, take your ride, toss it around a parking lot, then go drive the RX-8 6 speed and then do the same. Come back and tell us what you think.

Originally posted by javahut
By "6 speed SMT", do you mean Sequential Manual Transmission? Man, that's what I've been waiting for!

Yup! 6 speed manual gearbox with clutch and shifters actuated by hydraulic servos, controlled by computer and operator shift paddles. Same as the Ferrari F1 system, BMW's SMG II, etc.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by wakeech


...this is exactly what i've expected to hear from Joe American though. he's not the first, nor will he be the last.



Dur, all us Murkin's just want straight line performance. Jus' wait till I tub the rear end of my 8, add a Ford 9" rear end and add a pro-stock hood scoop. Or do yew canadians spell that 'scoope'?

Is that what you Canadians think? Straight line, big truck, bigger SUV... I didn't know you guys had enough time to think about that stuff with the snow, hockey, and maple syrup that endlessly consumes your frozen days... burrr... :)

Nice flames. Well, I can't say I expected anything less from RX-8 enthusiasts. I can't respond to each individual contention cause there are so many of them (LOL), so I'll say this..

You guys took my post way too personally (I thought), and it seems like most of you think I was flat out comparing a Mazda 6 to an RX-8. Not the case at all.

The only reason why I even mentioned the 6 speed RX-8 was because of its price, and I'm just not willing to spend that much on a trade-in right now. The 4 speed automatic, on the other hand, is well within my price range (as far as how much more cash I have to lay down put up after trade in).

On the other hand, you guys have made many very good points that I failed to mention (including the bits about Accords and Altimas vs the 6, and of course, the cornering). But again, the basis of my post was to highlight lack of sporty pickup that I was expecting out of an 8 in automatic.

No, I really didn't have many other qualms about it other than the straight line speed and pick-up; however, I think Mazda should consider knocking the price of an auto 8 down a few more hundred bucks to compensate for the significant loss in these areas.

There were a lot of positives in the auto RX-8 (pick up aside), but the aspect I was concentrating on the most in this vehicle is precisely the one that let me down. I guess that's why I didn't even bother mentioning anything else in my post. My final opinion of the car was that the auto RX-8 came across to me as a sports car with all looks and no muscle. That's the point I was trying to make in my post. That probably made me sound like even more of a biased asshole. (Sorry again.)

I'd like to go test drive a 8 in 6 speed manual, but I'm not sure yet if I'm willing to spend that much money on one. It's obviously the only version (right now) of the RX-8 that in my eyes will do it any justice. Maybe I'll wait a few more months..

In other news, the 6 forums are back up, and I guess that after reading the responses I got in this thread, I best be heading back there now.

Originally posted by Boozehound


Dur, all us Murkin's just want straight line performance. Jus' wait till I tub the rear end of my 8, add a Ford 9" rear end and add a pro-stock hood scoop. Or do yew canadians spell that 'scoope'?

Is that what you Canadians think? Straight line, big truck, bigger SUV... I didn't know you guys had enough time to think about that stuff with the snow, hockey, and maple syrup that endlessly consumes your frozen days... burrr... :)

nah, most canadians are very at home in sedans (notice how much cheaper nearly everything is: much lower demand), and only American wannabes are into SUV's. driving in the city, you don't see as many SUV's. in the burbs, you see lots of minivans and econo cars. nearing rural areas, you see TONS of trucks (as would be expected). our buying habits are in fact different from American's, although yes, not all that much.

Originally posted by Boozehound


Dur, all us Murkin's just want straight line performance. Jus' wait till I tub the rear end of my 8, add a Ford 9" rear end and add a pro-stock hood scoop. Or do yew canadians spell that 'scoope'?

Is that what you Canadians think? Straight line, big truck, bigger SUV... I didn't know you guys had enough time to think about that stuff with the snow, hockey, and maple syrup that endlessly consumes your frozen days... burrr... :) Yeah. 'N' jus wait till they spend all that time they got, thankin up some kinda way to get out all that crud oil outta tham thar frozed-up tar pits they got. More crud oil than you can shake a stick at, over in thar, I here! Ther'll be no stoppin 'em than!:eek:

just got back from Fort Jackson, SC--I'll take Canada's frozed-up tar pits any old time

Originally posted by Genom
but when you lay the hammer down, it goes. In a straight line. Anything else and it was substandard to say the least.

Only good for straight line? Substandard handling? That the first time I have ever heard or read anything negative about the Evo's handling. Every single mag or user review has reported that it is one of the best handling cars on the raod , let alone in it's price range. I call BS that you actually testdrove an Evo.

Well, I will be driving a MT RX-8 sometime this week so you guys might have someone else to flame :p I don't think my expectatiosn are as high as the original poster so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I'll get a post up the night after I drive it. If they try to put me in an AT I won't even bother.

Ike

Not a flame, just a note to point out a quick bit o' info from various tests: the automatic is around 3 seconds slower on the 0-60 than the manual. ~6 seconds vs ~9 seconds.

Originally posted by nk_Rx8


Only good for straight line? Substandard handling? That the first time I have ever heard or read anything negative about the Evo's handling. Every single mag or user review has reported that it is one of the best handling cars on the raod , let alone in it's price range. I call BS that you actually testdrove an Evo.

Yeah, I'm raising the same flag too. The EVO is much more than a straightline monster (though its not designed to be a drag racer). As for the interior, the things that count the most it excels in : driving position, pedal placement, gear shift placement and shifting action, small nice steering wheel, excellent seats and good visibility. I understand some people want luxury, and this is not it, but its interior is quite good in the areas that are important to many enthusiasts. The interior insults on the EVO are almost getting as bad as the "T" word! :confused:

Originally posted by wakeech


nah, most canadians are very at home in sedans (notice how much cheaper nearly everything is: much lower demand), and only American wannabes are into SUV's. driving in the city, you don't see as many SUV's. in the burbs, you see lots of minivans and econo cars. nearing rural areas, you see TONS of trucks (as would be expected). our buying habits are in fact different from American's, although yes, not all that much.


I was referring to Canadians perception of Americans with the truck and SUV comment. I figured most Canadians rode moose to/from work...:)

blaHAHAHAHAAHAHA

and one more thing...

"CANADIAN BEER SUCKS!" - boomer, canadian bacon.

actually, i have no idea why people are so negative to canadians, though i think it is more of freindly joking than actually "hating on" lol

i think that we can attribute is incredibly negative review, to the fact that he did not know that the AT is actually less powerful than his 6.

anyway, i take no offence to his post, and im glad he didnt attempt to sugar coat his impression

Yes it's all in good fun with the Canadians... not like those 6 owners... ;)

Originally posted by Boozehound
Yes it's all in good fun with the Canadians... not like those 6 owners... ;) 10-4 on that, good buddy, except, well, I got a problem with them stealing my fall 3rd grade arts & crafts project & making their flag out of it...:(

Think of it this way: 50 more horsepower alone will take off a lot of time 0-60. Add this to the fact that the manual is lighter than the 6 speed manual. Add that to the fact that manuals, in general, usually take off about a 1/2 second 0-60 from their automatic counterparts. Therefore, comparing the automatic rx-8 to its lighter, more powerful, 6-speed manual, is not even a fair test.

I suspect that Mazda came out with the Automatic just to please die hard automatic fans. Notice, that almost all of the Rx-8's are manual, comapred to most other "regular" cars where most are automatics...just like your mazda 6.

Reactions???

My father-in-law owns a 1969 Hemi Daytona Charger... and it's an automatic.

I currently drive a stick, and sometimes my clutch foot just gets tired, so on the weekends I drive my wife's auto.

After my 30-minute test drive in a 6MT GT, I can tell you that you have to drive this car differently than other cars you've known. It's a mindset, really. It's extremely difficult not to shift at 5-6,000 RPM. Once you get it in your head to approach redline, you've understood how this car is supposed to be driven.

I got to 45 MPH before shifting to second. You drive it like that and you will have no complaints about performance. I was doing around 60 on the freeway in third gear at about 6,000 RPM. That's awesome. You step on the peddle at that point and you go past everyone. It was a blast to drive once you got your head around how it wanted to be driven.

As for the AT, well, to each his own I guess.

You are right on, the old RX-7's, you could drive 40-45 mph in second gear. It was hard to get to a place that you could use 5th gear. You could easily drive down the interstate in 3rd. You really had to be going fast to use 5th, or else you just didn't have any "punch". That's just part of the Rotary. Keep those RPM's high!

I just wonder how often a guy will use 6th? That's gotta be a fun time. :D

Originally posted by grogiefrog
You are right on, the old RX-7's, you could drive 40-45 mph in second gear. It was hard to get to a place that you could use 5th gear. You could easily drive down the interstate in 3rd. You really had to be going fast to use 5th, or else you just didn't have any "punch". That's just part of the Rotary. Keep those RPM's high!

I just wonder how often a guy will use 6th? That's gotta be a fun time. :D

How will that affect your gas mileage though? Won't that drop it through the floor? :confused:

I have a 6spd in my car. I can cruise at 40MPH in 4th @2000rpm all day long, or I can punch it and take it up to 143mph before having to shift to 5th...BUT, I still drive around in 6th on the freeway. The gear is like an overdrive to help get better gas milage, that's all.

I'd hate to have to hang the tach around 6k everywhere I went just to get any "punch". Is that the case with these rotary engines? :confused:

Originally posted by Lethalchem


How will that affect your gas mileage though? Won't that drop it through the floor? :confused:

I have a 6spd in my car. I can cruise at 40MPH in 4th @2000rpm all day long, or I can punch it and take it up to 143mph before having to shift to 5th...BUT, I still drive around in 6th on the freeway. The gear is like an overdrive to help get better gas milage, that's all.

I'd hate to have to hang the tach around 6k everywhere I went just to get any "punch". Is that the case with these rotary engines? :confused: You're falling into that trap. Don't think pistons when you're talking rotors. You get best MPG where your engine runs most efficiently. I'm thinking that's around where max torque @ WOT is = 5,500rpm. It's not at all like your V8's where that would be @ 1,800 - 2,000rpm. A rotory is happiest @ 5,500. Your not flogginng it there like you would a V8.

Well, 40-45 mph is the high end of 2nd. Did I always shift there? No, it was more confortable to shift lower. I would use 3rd gear a lot of times to accelerate onto the highway into traffic. It would take you to 60 easy... or more.

I lived in Colorado with a lot of mountain two lane roads. That "punch" came in handy.

Let me explain it this way... in a lot of stick shifts, if you get the RPM too low, it doesn't have that punch, but if you get the RPM too high, you feel like the engine is going to blow out of the hood. That's what it feels like to me. Whereas with a Rotary, it's just smooth at a high RPM. Just think of the word smooth. And that is where your "punch" is. You will like keeping it there just so that you have that "punch".

MPG you ask? I have gotten a 1st generation RX-7 as high as 25, and as low as 8. It depended more on how hard you stepped on it from start then once you were going. Yes, we all get tired of filling the tank (in the wallet!). But again, having your RPM's too low is going to lug the Rotary and use more fuel. So, you'll find a nice happy spot for most of your driving. Just remember that it's going to be higher then any other car that you have driven.

Exactly Racer! Don't think of it as a V8. And your MPG will be better at a higher RPM! Zoom Zoom!

Originally posted by Efini 8
hello!? duh its gunna be slow, its automatic! However this is not always the case. Some drag cars use automatic trans and are faster than manual transmission cars because less power loss during shifting with a torque converter rather than a clutch which cuts power when disengaged.

Drag cars use automatics to take advantage of torque multiplication. When the engine is turning at a different speed than the transmission, the torque put out to the wheels is multiplied. Yields a better launch if you've got the traction to take advantage of it.

Power loss when shifting has nothing to do with it -- the shift times are so low it's not even funny. The more time an automatic spends shifting, the more power that's wasted (you're wasting power heating two clutch packs during a shift). Things change a bit when you're dealing with boosted cars (cars stay under boost during a shift), but for hardcore drag machines this is not a factor.

One of the other primary reasons why automatics are popular is /related/ to shifting -- run consistancy. Using an automatic yields more consistent runs.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
You're falling into that trap. Don't think pistons when you're talking rotors. You get best MPG where your engine runs most efficiently. I'm thinking that's around where max torque @ WOT is = 5,500rpm. It's not at all like your V8's where that would be @ 1,800 - 2,000rpm. A rotory is happiest @ 5,500. Your not flogginng it there like you would a V8.

Really? Now THAT is a sweet setup! I never knew the rotory engine was different in that way. Now that you say that though, I do recall reading somewhere that the rotary burns up the gas bigtime when idling. Now that statement makes perfect sense:cool: . I appreciate you setting an old barbaric V8 owner straight, that's why I come here..to learn:p .

Originally posted by Grogiefrog


But again, having your RPM's too low is going to lug the Rotary and use more fuel. So, you'll find a nice happy spot for most of your driving. Just remember that it's going to be higher then any other car that you have driven.

I don't have a problem revving an engine to redline, I've done it on a regular basis on all my cars. Being a weekend drag racer, I know the importance of proper RPM use, but I'd never known you could actually get BETTER gas consumption by wrapping it up higher! What a great excuse to keep it in the upper range.:D

Now that you guys point it out, I do recall thinking that the car I test drove didn't seem to be screaming when I took it up to 8500 like I had expected it to. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for the help guys.:cool:

How sweet it is!

I'm gonna borrow this from Wakeech's sig here for you...

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com

Go there, check out all the animations in the animations library. Bookmark it for later reference. It truly is the best! I especially like the "Chamber-Centric -- 848K GIF" (third from the top) cuz you can really relate this animation to a piston engine, with the 4 cycles, where the "combustion chamber" is standing still instead of spinning around with the rotors. Way cool! (If it isn't animated online, it should be. Save it to your hard drive & bring it up with something else that makes it animate. I had to.) Then the other animations make more sense.

And I repeat, way cool!!!

Wait, so the RX-8's best efficiency "sweet spot" is around 5500 RPM?

Imagine that, run higher RPM and get more efficient gas mileage.

Everyday, I begin to like this car more.

speed is far from everything.

especially for me.

style is enduring and will never get you a ticket.

speed is temporary and can be created through other means, and will definitely get you a ticket... just a matter of time.

I am currently a 2002 Protege5 sport wagon owner and I thought my next car was the Mazda 6s. I have never driven the 6 or the RX-8 and all I can say based on my Protege5 is that if either was as fun and with as great handling and performance as my 4 cyclinder 130 hp car I am sold. Granted, I know I will be spending quite a bit more but the exterior beauty and the awesome interior is well worth it to me!! I am not in to the car for speed... but for handling, performance, reliability and of course looks!!! I consider myself a car enthusiast...not so much mechanically, but I have never been more intrigued, excited and in awe of a car. Hands down it has it in looks in and out!! I have a 4 year old son I need to cart around and to have a car like this which fits him and his car seat with ease is awesome! I am ordering a silver automatic, GT pkg, red/black leather w/rotary accent package. I am sold no matter what the 0-60 is!!! We all have our opinions...thanks!

Enthusiasts shouldn't buy autos. Unless it's a grand national or something like that, then it's ok :p

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Enthusiasts shouldn't buy autos. Unless it's a grand national or something like that, then it's ok :p

I disagree. What about the SVT Lightning?:p

Originally posted by sjt
speed is far from everything.

especially for me.

style is enduring and will never get you a ticket.

speed is temporary and can be created through other means, and will definitely get you a ticket... just a matter of time.


I disagree, I think what a car looks like plays in to how much the police will pay attention to you. Unless you drive the speedlimit all the time (if you do, go buy a freaking Volvo) style can most certainly get you a ticket.

Enthusiasts shouldn't buy SVT Lightnings :p

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Enthusiasts shouldn't buy SVT Lightnings :p

:D

Many a second place felt the same way.

Hi,

Since these discussions have been going on and on just thought I may clarify a few things.

Mazda did not go with lower power for the auto because of technical reasons. In all other markets outside the US and Canada RX8 is sold in two versions, 192 and 238 HP (a litle higher numbers in Japan due to emission laws there). The 192 HP version comes with a 5 speed as opposed to 6 speed on 238 HP. Austrian mags had tested RX8 as recently as July, and came up with 0 to 60 6.4 for 238 HP, 7.2 for 192 HP. Some numbers achieved in tests of 238 HP were actually better (saw 5.9) so one could extrapolate that manual 192 HP is capable of around 6.7 s at best. Add about 0.5 s for auto, and you have roughly 7.2 v 5.9. Difference of 1.3 s. Looks like a lot but only if you're drag racing. It might be good to remember that normally aspirated 220 HP Supra had similar performance and was still a nice sports car with plent of punch.

Also, official manufacturers 0 to 60 numbrs should be treated with caution. Mazda has always been very conservative with these, including posting a 10.5 s 0 to 60 for 2.0 L Protege, which actually achieved mid 8's... In a similar mannner BMW gives 330s number at over 7 seconds, while eveyone knows it can do low 6's.

Sports cars are not about 0 to 60 but about style and handling. If one wants 0 to 60 you're better off with a turbocharged compact, but hey, it aint gonna look or handle like a sports car. Having an Alfa GTV with 150 HP which did 0 to 60 in over 8 seconds manual, it was still heck of a car to drive ona twisty road, and thats what its all about. In Europe for example many think of overtaking abilkity (i.e 80-120 or 60-100) as more important than 0 to 60.

Automatic vs manual is a question of preference. If you want to switch gears on RX8, still can do that. As for sportiness of using a clutch... try SMG (or DSG which is roughly similar system). Why do you think rally cars sudenly slow down when SMG fails and they have to switch to manual ? Because its faster to switch without a clutch on an SMG ! So please lets end this silly long debate about using a clutch being very "sporty". And as for 6 gear box, a lot of people do 95% of driving in town. Gears above 4 are pretty much useless on a 200 HP car in town when you rarely exceed 50 mph. Again, rally cars nowadays revert to 5 or even 4 speed boxes (peugeot has one for most of this year) and still manage to be as fast a six speed cars. In town I'll take automatic any day, although would prefer and SMG of course, but its not available on that many cars yet. There are also boxes similar to SMG essentially a manual without a clutch, some can change gears by themselves, but others not. Euro Toyota Yaris (Echo hatchback) has one, and in automatic mode it is more fuel efficient than the manual. Cannot handle a lot of power yet, though.

Cheers,

Acer

You know people keep comparing the AT/T with the MT/T. I don't give a rats butt what the hell you think. We all know Auto's are slower than the MT unless you get your AT/T rebuilt by level10 or a sequential. This is like saying "if you don't have a Turbo your slow".

yeah, i agree to what someone said earlier. seems to me the underlying issue is that he's trying to convince himself he got the right car.

A 6s Owner: Interesting review. Most of what you said is correct.

Good luck with your 6s (even though you overpaid).

With the average price of a car sold in the U.S. being $26,000 I would not have picked any other car other than my RX-8. I only paid $24,900 for my AUTOMATIC equipped baby. And it is only a little bit slower that the 6 speed not like all you manual types make it out to be. For the money I laid out it was a no brainer. No other car on the market has the sex appeal styling and performance like the RX-8.

I have two bad knees stemming from my military service so a six speed was out of the question, although I can drive a maual and did so for over 20 years, The automatic is more in tune with the massive urban traffic I face on a day to day basis. I got rid of my last six speed (Acura RSX type S) after spending 2-3 hours in an I-64 traffic jam stuck in the left lane behind an accident in the HRBT. My knee was swelled up like a football!

Never again!

Don't knock the auto, for one day that left leg may be laid up and you will be hard pressed to get yourself around.

Ugh, i'm so tired of defending the auto 8...move along troll...

The auto is slower but not bad if you keep it in M mode... Now an auto on a twisty road vs. a M6, I am sure the 8 will come up ahead... Now the 6sp RX8 is the real sports car and with the MS setup will completely destroy the M6...

My wife drove the auto RX8 and liked it very much; there is a market for this car...

Guys, this thread was dead for over a year until someone resurrected it yesterday. Just leave it dead! The original troll is loooong gone.

Regards,
Gordon

Even though you 8 owners could care less, here's what I got for that price in these two packages:

Actually, we couldn't care less. Words have specific meanings.

A few observations:

1 - the auto 8 has substantially diminished performance. If you want a real sports car in this price range, you're not buying an auto.

2 - your car, while it might outdo an auto 8 in the straight line acceleration bit, much like any cheap American sports car, would fall by the wayside at the first curve. FWD sucks, almost as much as automatic.

3 - The MSRP of the 8 is irrelevant, it's what you'd actually pay for it: local dealers have been selling 8's for as little as $750 under invoice in the LA area. That's just under $25000 for a basic 6MT 8. I don't see a compelling reason to buy anything other than the base model - the Bose stereo is nothing amazing, the sunroof lowers your headroom and will eventually leak, and the DSC is a substitute for good driving. The only thing I wish my 8 had that it doesn't is xenon headlights.

Guys, this thread was dead for over a year until someone resurrected it yesterday. Just leave it dead! The original troll is loooong gone.

Regards,
Gordon

I was about to get to that. :rolleyes:

"Condolensces"? I think your sympathies are misplaced and your intentions misguided.
Enjoy your 6.
'nuff said.

Wasn't the HP drop for the automatics done because the tranny couldn't handle the high rpm?

Things that are more sad: 163hp Cooper S's with quite a few problems for about the same price as the 6s.

So true. That's why my Cooper S (the S stands for "stumble") is for sale.

jerij

well christ.... by your thinking, why didint you get a Srt-4 its MUCH faster than your 6, and costs LESS

my Auto is pretty quick from roll, but from a stop the torque kills ya a bit, 0-60 feels like mid 6 secas to me

"...The RX-8 feels a lot like my MX-6 when sitting inside. It's really amazing to me how Mazda can take a tight cockpit & make it feel like you still have more than enough room for comfort. I drive my MX-6 to work 38 miles one-way, Monday-Friday. I never get tired of driving it! The sucker is not muscular by any stretch, but its fun to drive. I earn my respect on the off ramps if not anywhere else. :D The car is over 10 years old & over 180,000 miles & it will still be my daily driver while my 8 slumbers in her beauty, in the garage... Well, my MX-6 is now over 11 years old & over 201,000 miles & it will still be my daily driver while my 8 slumbers in her beauty, in the garage...

Ah, the good ole troll wars days. :rolleyes:

So,,, how 'bout them Panthers?...

Some people enjoy the car's looks and want an automatic. I met a couple during delivery of their RX8 auto that were thrilled with the car. I was waiting for mine in service.

I'll drive my auto 8 against you in the twisties... then let's see who's faster... ;)

Guys, this thread was dead for over a year until someone resurrected it yesterday. Just leave it dead! The original troll is loooong gone.

Regards,
Gordon
WTF? Man I just realized that.

you still don't have an 8-

oh damn.. it was posted a year ago. oops

You are right . . . we could care less . . .

amen to whatever u said brother. I took ur word and bought both the 6 and the 8. I guess i have the best of both worlds. Loving my 30k car that only looks good car. Dude let me tell u something the stuff that i do with my 8 at higher speeds on the freeway or around turns. If i attempted in my 6 i would be dead by now. I don't think what you said is correct. Simply because you took the looks of the car and thought it was a ferrari but with a mazda 8 engine. ITs still an rx-8 brother.

The 8 was never ment to be a good 1/4 mile car, but she will hold her own on a road course... When I get done with her she should be pushing about 300-320rwhp; that is the plan... She will handle amazing, out brake any other car on the road and keep up with the best of them on the straights...

I happen to own an automatic RX-8, and while it's not the fastest car off the line, it certainly is pretty fun to drive. I had no choice in getting the auto, given that I'm in a wheelchair. This was one of the first cars with paddle shifters that allows me to drive somewhat like a standard transmission, something I haven't been able to do in 17 years, so I was very happy. The power off the line is pretty unimpressive but does show up all throughout the midrange and high end. The car handles like a dream, stops on a dime and gets non stop second looks and compliments. Would i trade it for a sedan? Who want a sedan unless they are dragging their family around?

I purchased this car in automatic for a few reasons. One I cant drive stick worth shit, even with my 2 hours of practicing in my friends rabbit ;) Second the California freeways suck, I wouldnt be able to handle shifing non stop. I got the auto in triptronic for a few reasons, those listed above. The first could be corrected, but this being my first car I didn't wanna f* shit up. lazyness? :P

If I could rebuy the car in manual would I? Probably would just because my souroundings changed.

I don't need your condolences for my car choice. I got the car I desired to own, not because it was the fasted thing out there but because it was a mixture of things. It looks damn nice inside and out, it is speedier than the average car, (197hp is not slow compared to most traffic I come across) the price for me was doable, it handles well and it was a rotary which in itself is awesome. I love my car even as an automatic. My wife hates stick so when she needs to she can drive my car. Maybe instead of offering your condolences you should just be happy with your choice and us Auto8 owners will continue to be happy with ours.

Guys, this thread was dead for over a year until someone resurrected it yesterday. Just leave it dead! The original troll is loooong gone.

Regards,
Gordon
LOL! This is funny. That was good timing too.

dude
auto 8 is not too bad... just put a trubo in to the 8. u car still can go fast as hell. here is the website of jp company Re-amemiya. they boost up the auto 8 to 260hp. no worry u car will get faster then u expect la..(if u boost it up)
http://www.re-amemiya.co.jp/rx_8/

Since the Mazda 6 forums that I frequent are down and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon, I thought I'd offer my review...or two cents... on the automatic RX-8 in this forum.

Just a little warning: it's a nasty one, and if you happen to own an automatic RX-8, either stop reading, or prepare to be offended.

I'm going to jump right into it by saying this: There's no way in hell I'll be trading my 6 for an RX-8..not even for the 6 speed manual because of its price.

Let me put some numbers into your heads first..

The Mazda 6 I own is a 5 speed manual 6s (the "s" denoting the v6 220hp stock engine) in Lapis Blue and cloth. This included a Sports Package, Bose Package, sports grille, and alarm shock sensor upgrade.

Its got an MSRP of $23,720, though I scored a deal and took it for $23,000 out the door for it.

An RX-8 in automatic starts at a base MSRP of $25,700 (where I live at least).

Six speed manual starts at a little over 27 grand.

Even though you 8 owners could care less, here's what I got for that price in these two packages:

The Bose Package included 6 Bose speakers (2 tweeters), a modest subwoofer in the trunk, and a 6 disc cd-changer.

The Sports Package is basically a sportier exhaust, better looking front and rear bumpers, side moldings, a rear wing spoiler, 17" wheels (instead of the standard 16" ones), and more stylish display gauges.

At any rate, I've owned the 6 for about 5 months now, and yesterday after my oil change at the nearby Mazda dealer, I decided that it was time to test drive an 8 because one near the waiting room caught my eye.

They only had two RX-8s that weren't already sold/pre-ordered aside from the one in the showroom: one was a fully loaded black 6 speed, with over $30,000 or so on the sticker; the other was a silver automatic in a Sport Package with cloth for almost $28,000. The salesman was reluctant to let me test drive the 6 speed since I told him I was just "checking out the car," so I went with the automatic. Big mistake.

The interior was amazing looking (like the exterior), and it was comfortable as hell. (And this was just cloth.) That's saying a lot for what's supposedly a sports car. The driver and passenger's air conditioning vents are just like the ones on my 6 though. Steering wheel controls are also identical to my 6's, except for the shifting buttons of course.

When I was about to pull that gorgeous looking silver automatic out of the lot, I got excited and buckled my seat belt thinking, "Alright, let's see what kind of a kick an extra $4,000 would give me," even though it was just an automatic.

For about 15 minutes, I drove the hell out of this car, stopped at a redlight and then floored it (did this twice actually, and the salesman didn't seem too thrilled). Within 6 minutes, I realized that the speed I was looking for just wasn't there. I couldn't believe how awful the performance was in this automatic sports car. It had a nice pick up when you reached higher RPMs, but from a dead standstill, it simply sucked.

Reaching 60 from 0 felt like forever in this RX-8 I test drove. As a wild guess, I'd say it's gotta be somewhere over 8.5 seconds. Is that where the 8 comes from in this car's title? (Just joking.)

The pathetic part is, my 6 reaches zero to sixty somewhere around 6.7 - 6.9 seconds. Hell, I almost bought a 6 in automatic because I had such a difficult time finding one in manual, and if I remember correctly, even THAT seemed like it was faster than this auto 8!

After I got back to the lot, I pounded the salesman with a bunch of questions about the pickup and non-sporty performance. He uneasily admitted that the automatic 8 has less horsepower than my 5 speed sedan does. Bleh. What a let down. (Especially at that price.)

While it's completely understandable that an automatic is obviously going to be slower than manual, Mazda really seems to have taken the zest and fun out of the 8 in this 4 speed automatic version. The automatic RX-8, to my surprise, has about 50 less horses than the manual 6 speed. I don't know why the hell they've decided to do this, but what I can tell you is that there's no way I'm going to trade in my Mazda6 + spend an extra 10 grand on a 6 speed RX-8 that isn't even fully loaded.

A BASE MSRP of $25,700 is one hefty frigging price to pay for one of the slowest automatic sports cars I've ever had the chance to drive. I'm not kidding either when I say one of the slowest. For that much cash, you can get a 5 speed Mazda 6s that is fully loaded, and it has a helluva lot of better performance. Yeah, the RX8 is hands down more stylish and attractive than the sedanish looking Mazda 6, but when you're spending that much cash, looks should come secondary to performance. The automatic RX-8's performance is comparable to today's automatic V6 Mustang (hell it's probably even slower), and you can get that car for under $20,000.

A $27,500 sticker places you in either a 6 speed manual with no packages, or an automatic with the Sports Package. "Truthfully, you're not going to get both performance and luxury out of an RX-8 unless you buy one in manual and come up closer to the $30,000 range," says my cunning little salesman. That statement of his blew the whole trade-in idea right there for me.

I was under the misconception that the 4 speed automatic would be only a tad bit slower than the 6 speed manual. In reality, these two versions of the RX-8 seem like they're two completely different cars. Review sites say the 6 speed can do 60 in 6 seconds flat (maybe even in the upper 5s), so I was expecting... say... maybe mid/high 7s to get to 60 seconds in the automatic. That would be a much more acceptable performance given the $2,000 price decrease. Instead, the auto seems to have the performance of an automatic sedan. Sorry but, that's just not worth it.

I left the dealership today disappointed about what I learned, and I'm definitely going to be sticking with my manual 6s. I'd rather waste money modding my 6s to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed RX-8, than trade it in and blow $10,000 on a manual RX-8 with no packages included.

Many of you would disagree with that, but I'm looking at the cars by performance versus price. Style comes into play here as well, but then again, the 350Z is quiet stylish too if I recall.

But oh man...I still can't wait. Some hotrod in his new, automatic RX-8, is going to pull up to me at a stoplight, rev his engine a few times thinking he's got some hot shit under there, and then I'm going to die of laugher as I leave his ass in the dust with my modest looking sports sedan. Hey, at least I've got something to look forward to.

This is a very simple answer to the debate.

I think that RX-8 auto owners own them for the looks. If you like it enough to pay the price that's fine.

6s owners own them for the price. Great. More power to ya.

The reason I bought my 6 speed RX-8: Rotary, Baby! You will all understand in a couple of years when the turbo kits come out. I expect a super tricked out RX-8 to top 800 hp by 2006. You may think I'm crazy, but does anyone remember the 1080 hp RX-7? You just can't beat rotary power. Except maybe with turbine. Any plans for turbine Mazda? JK.

GUYS!! the post is a YEAR OLD! There's no point in yelling at this person, as he's long gone.

6 owner... You must not be a very good negotiator. I got my RX-8 MT with Nav and the GT package for just a few thou more than you paid. I bet mine is worth a ton more in two years..

Good luck to ya.

BTW -- Wanna race?

GUYS!! the post is a YEAR OLD! There's no point in yelling at this person, as he's long gone.
Goes to show that lot of people here don't read before they post. :)

Yes, but unfortunately at the end of the day, or week, or I'm sad to say months or years, Guess What...... I the world of the suave, sophiticated and stylish.....

You will still only be driving a 6. :-)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Only someone terribly anal would read the date of each thread.

I have an 8, a/t and it is a blast to drive. If you really want a $30,000 car that goes fast in a straight line, go buy a GTO. 0-60 in 4.7 sec. 13.0 1/4 mile

Stock

I was looking at them but chose the 8.

Condolence, schmolence. I bought the car for me and I'm the only one I have to please. Hit some nasty stop-and-go traffic today and just slapped it back into full auto mode. That took a little aggravation out of my day.

Since the Mazda 6 forums that I frequent are down and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon,
To quote the Bible, go thou and do likewise.

i hated my auto RX8 with a passion. i had the chance to get a 6spd but the wife didnt want it. i could not stand the power output of the auto rx8. i gave up on this car in 11 months and traded out for an 05 WRX. the car has alot more power potential than the auto 8. i am planning on getting all turboXS gear for it and push it to 220hp for about $1500. cant say i can do that with the automatic 8. the wife was upset that i traded out the car but at least she understood that i was dumping the retarded lease i got ourselves into. now she doesnt like the fact that the WRX is a 5spd and i didnt buy an automatic. i dont plan on ever driving another automatic car like this ever again. it takes all the fun away. at least now i can mod my car and get some good power. i have nothing against the RX8 but it seems like mazda didnt make it mod friendly. seems like they made it to stay stock and simple. you dont get much out of an intake/exhaust swap on an 8. just doing an uppipe and turboback setup on a WRX will yield me 20-30hp (give or take a few) and a turboXS UTEC swap will give me another 20-30hp on top of it.

NonononononoNOOOOOO!!!!! Not bringing this horrible thread back up. Let the dead stay that way!!