If the rest of the RX-8 delivers, would 220 hp been enough to get your business?

Even though it wouldn't seem as such a great bargain at 220 compared to 247.

It would still be a great package at a good price, I would still get one.

BUT!!!! I would also expect better fuel efficiency from 220 compared to 250.

bump

I haven't ordered but I wouldn't have removed it from consideration even if its power was listed as 180 HP.

I love rotaries, always wanted one and the Gen II RX-7 GTU I drove for about a week back in 1989 was certainly fun and it made a lot less than 180 HP (got worse fuel mileage than a Renesis, too, but I'd still buy one today over a lot of other cars...)

I already own an anemic car that only goes fast while parked. (G20T) True, 220 is plenty more hp, but - and you can sing along with me here - "Oh, the times, they are a-changin'". We're goin' back it seems to the muscle car, folks, and I don't want to be simply sitting pretty. Heck, 250 is gonna look pretty lame soon, if it doesn't to you already. That number was borderline ok for me.

220 or 210 or, what's it gonna be next month? Who knows? Crap!

I just test drove it this evening. I do not think it is underpowered at all. I dont care about the horsepower numbers. I rides awesome

I totally agree with the return of the muscle cars statement. I already think 250 is not much, but considering what it cost to buy lets say a 400hp car the price of the 8 is pretty good. I just hope the slumping economy doesn't put a halt to the horsepower wars the way the oil crisis did in the 70s. To answer the question if this car only has 220 or less hp then cancel my order for sure. I can get a handful of cars with similar hp for a lot less, or a few cars with more horses for a little more.

The Wicked MOnkey

If the horse power wars are on going when is america going to jump in? Bring back Mopar power!!!!! A neon doesn't count as mopar power.

The car is fast enough for me, and does so many other things extremely well. Having made many comments in the dyno threads about getting an explanation for the strange numbers, I am still happy to buy my car tomorrow, and I signed the paperwork today.

Ditto what Pelucidor and the pelucidogs say. I'm still delighted with this car, and the notion that there may be bonus hp somewhere down the road is icing on an already well-iced cake.

No because at those power levels the acceleration numbers would be similar to my current car. The RX-8, AS ADVERSTISED, is exactly what I want, a 3000lb, rwd, 4 seat, good handling potential (my current car has a Tein coilover suspension ) 247hp car. I like the philosophy = high revving engine and styling. But even though hp isn't everything, I would like to upgrade on that aspect from my current car and at 220hp it would not be much of an upgrade if at all since the 8 weighs 100lbs more than the Prelude.

My dealer called last night to tell me my car is in. In spite of the concerns voiced about the dyno results I am excited about getting the RX-8 and expect it will be a blast to drive.

Its too bad that the major car mags don't generally dyno the cars they test. Bike mags do that as a rule, and it eliminates the paper horsepower effect. There always seems to be a gap between advertising copy and the rear wheel that is larger than mechanical losses can explain. The Car & Driver test showed the RX-8 held its own against a G35 coupe and thats good enough for me.

Anyway, I didn't order the RX-8 expecting it to be a stoplight rocket. I've got my BMW R1100S slug to handle those duties and even though it's a slow bike, it will still leave most cars sucking my exhaust.

The HP issue would be big enough for me not to PRE-order (just based on reports alone, etc). For the same performance, I could plunk down the same money, not have to wait, get an IS300 with way better service and reliability, and have it 3 months before hand.

Am I glad I pre-ordered? Sure. I love this car - the driving feel is much better than the IS, but the number game would be enough to keep me out of a pre-order program almost certainly. That being said, a 220hp RX-8 might have been my prefrence upon test drive, but it just isn't worth the leap of faith/pain in the a$$ that pre-ordering and waiting is all about.

I'm happy with my car. I'd be HAPPIER with the corral full of all it's ponies.

EDIT: Maybe mine's full power (I haven't dyno'ed it), so I dont know for sure, but conventional wisdom wins out here - there's no such thing as too much horsepower.

Originally posted by yrotory
My dealer called last night to tell me my car is in. In spite of the concerns voiced about the dyno results I am excited about getting the RX-8 and expect it will be a blast to drive.

Its too bad that the major car mags don't generally dyno the cars they test. Bike mags do that as a rule, and it eliminates the paper horsepower effect. There always seems to be a gap between advertising copy and the rear wheel that is larger than mechanical losses can explain. The Car & Driver test showed the RX-8 held its own against a G35 coupe and thats good enough for me.

Anyway, I didn't order the RX-8 expecting it to be a stoplight rocket. I've got my BMW R1100S slug to handle those duties and even though it's a slow bike, it will still leave most cars sucking my exhaust.

I seriously doubt that a RX8 can hang with a 350z or G35 coupe, I have seen both cars dyno at 235+-HP to the wheels on a dynojet.

I have yet to personally see a RX8 dyno locally but searching this forum I see that the RX8 only dynoes at 180-185 Hp which is a LOT less compared to the nissans, even if the Nissans are a lot heavier 55 wheel HP is a LOT of extra power and will generally more than cancel out a 450 lb weight difference. And i cant believe the excuses I have read on this site, that the car needs to get to 20k miles to release all the power WHAT? so from the dealer up to 20k miles you paid for a 220hp car and only get a 247hp car after 20k miles, reading that is really amusing. No car will get 20 wheel hp from breaking in that is ridiculous, really pathetic.

I was cross shopping between the WRX STI, G35 coupe, 350z and RX8. The last 3 look very sporty and well built so a big factor in making my desition is power/performance which in a sports car is generally one of the most important motivating factors in getting that type of car in the first place (unless you want a POSER car)

Being that a 350z costs about the same as an RX8, looks good too (both are distinctive), handles well also and is rear drive BUT has over 50 wheel hp more than the RX8, I just crossed the RX8 off my list.

IF and only IF the RX8 cost about $5,000 less would I consider it. Thats the bottom line.

MAZDA, shame on you, shame on you....

Maybe you can redeem yourself by stuffing the 185 wheel hp RX8 engine in a MIATA, now that would make positive headlines.

If C&D did 7.5 sec 5-60 on their preproduction test RX-8 would have to think the 5-60 time is around 8 seconds now, with the actual dyno'd power output of the Renesis. Apparently that video showed the RX-8 lagging behind the S2000, Accord V6, G35, Crossifire, etc, all save the Miata.

Anyone with a broken-in car have access to a drag strip?

I must admit that the HP numbers are disapointing for such a beautifully crafted car. I saw, and drove, the RX-8 for the first time this weekend. It was a blast to drive, and I couldn't stop talking about how much I enjoyed it, but it IS slow...and I was in the 6spd.

My wife is looking at the auto, which we havn't driven yet, but I expect to be much less impressed with that. She doesn't care about performance though, so the car is still a good possibility (she was looking at the WRX).

I don't have a problem buying 250hp at 26k for the base models, but the sticker of 31k for the 6spd is crazy. I bought my 2003 Cobra for only a few grand over that, and they arn't even in the same class. A bit too high priced for the performance, IMHO.

Of course, this car isn't for me, it's for my wife. We all have different uses for our cars, and not everyone is as closed-minded as I am about performance. If she decides she wants it, I'll just keep the cobra at the drags, and I'm sure I'll have a blast with her RX-8 at the autoX.:D

It really is an amazingly stunning car that almost sells on looks alone. Mazda designed this thing beautifully.

Echoing RomanoM's comments, 220 HP is adequate on a 3000 lb car but not at 16 mpg (my first tank).
Also, not adequate for a pre-order.

not a chance i would have gotten a wrx sti for that price or the g35 mt6 , NOW after a turbo and ecu mod for the pre-order rx-8 yes, given that peps are saying there is not even 200hp according to dyno tests done, if true, very, very disapointed and would never for my life time look at mazda the same. we will see what the magazines have to say in the next few months ...

I still don't have my RX-8 yet (almost 6 weeks at port now), but I have been thinking about this quite a bit.

When I test drove a heavily loaded 3600lb RX-8 (4 on board) it seemed to accelerate much faster than my 3450lb IS300 (just me on board). Admittedly the IS300 is 215hp going through a torque convertor as it's an automatic, but the difference was very noticeable, and the RX-8 had <100 miles on it compared to 45,000 on the IS300. Perhaps the RX-8's horses are there but cannot be easily measured at the wheel. Any thoughts - it could just be subjective, but it is unusual that the quieter car (RX-8) should feel so much faster.

Originally posted by wanker
Echoing RomanoM's comments, 220 HP is adequate on a 3000 lb car but not at 16 mpg (my first tank).
Also, not adequate for a pre-order.

I wonder if the poor gas milage can be attributed to the fact that the car seems to need to be driven around much higher in the rpm spectrum. When I drove it I noticed that yes, it has a high redline, but for it to feel responsive I had to drive around at 3k or better. In fact, anything below that seemed useless in traffic. Perhaps that is why the gas milage is poor.

You guys are getting about the same gas milage (maybe even a bit less!) than my cobra. Something's wrong with that picture. When a 3700lb supercharged V8 that's been modified to over 500hp can pull in 22mpg on the freeway...matching your 3000lb 1.3 with 200+....something just seems wrong. Is this normal for these rotary engines?

at a cheaper cost I will think about it.... 24-25k would be right in the ball park of a WRX. Anything more it's a loss cause for me. YMMV.

Hey Lethalchem if your hot Shot cobra is so hot, why are you shopping? Look at the list of cars you have owned. Do you really expect anyone to believe you are objectively evaluating the RX8. It appears to me you are trying to justify buying another mustang. Go ahead you have our permission. In all the articles I have read, any stock mustang of any kind didn't even come close to the 8. Horsepower is overrated, if you drove the RX8 for any period of time you would finally understand that fact. This car is putting as much on the road as it should. When its all said and done, they will find out why this and many 03 model cars are not dynoing right. It will come down to all these wiz bang computer sensors that monitor everything and somehow compensates for what it sees with a programmed model of what to do. Maybe back tires spinning like mad, and front tires standing still tell the engine to pull over, you have just entered a hurricane. Who knows. The engine tested at 247 HP, something electronic is is probably limiting it on a dyno. Personnally (on the road, not standing still in a garage) I don't feel limited in any way with the power I'm getting right now, after breakin at 1400 miles. I'm loving it, and I won't be shopping for another car for quite a while.

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Hey Lethalchem if your hot Shot cobra is so hot, why are you shopping? Look at the list of cars you have owned. Do you really expect anyone to believe you are objectively evaluating the RX8. It appears to me you are trying to justify buying another mustang. Go ahead you have our permission. In all the articles I have read, any stock mustang of any kind didn't even come close to the 8. Horsepower is overrated, if you drove the RX8 for any period of time you would finally understand that fact. This car is putting as much on the road as it should. When its all said and done, they will find out why this and many 03 model cars are not dynoing right. It will come down to all these wiz bang computer sensors that monitor everything and somehow compensates for what it sees with a programmed model of what to do. Maybe back tires spinning like mad, and front tires standing still tell the engine to pull over, you have just entered a hurricane. Who knows. The engine tested at 247 HP, something electronic is is probably limiting it on a dyno. Personnally (on the road, not standing still in a garage) I don't feel limited in any way with the power I'm getting right now, after breakin at 1400 miles. I'm loving it, and I won't be shopping for another car for quite a while.

:confused:

I'm not really sure why you felt attacked enough to warrent a response like this, but perhaps you should go back and read it again. I was not putting down the RX-8, I was offering a suggestion as to why the gas milage might be poor. I know nothing of these kinds of engines, so my question at the end of my post was sincere, not sarcastic.

I'm not sure why I'm responding to you, but I guess it's in case others share your opinions. Go back and read my other posts. I do not bash your car in any of them. I'm not a troll, nor have I come here to say my Cobra is better or worse than your cars. I only mentioned the cobra as a point of reference for gas milage.

As for the plausibility of me buying a Rx-8, I'm confused as to how you would know what my interests are? For one, I respect and enjoy all cars that have their fingers on the pulse of what driving is all about. I will admit, that were I looking for a car for MYSELF, I'd not be here. As it is, however, I am looking to purchase a car for my WIFE, and thought that the RX-8 was a beautiful work of art that she would have a blast in.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate the info on how the car feels for you as a driver. That makes me feel better knowing I may have to drive it now and then if I get it for my wife. As stated in several, if not all of my posts here thusfar, I think the Rx-8 is beautifully done. it just lacks the power to back up it's looks and style.

What are people looking for? Actual performance or just numbers to impress? Peak HP tells you about as much as CPU MHz when comparing performance: everything else must be identical for it to be relevant.

If you just want the number to impress people then the 247hp in the specs should be enough.

If you want to out-distance competitors at red-lights, then wait for 1/4 mile results and see how the RX8 performs.

If you want acceleration numbers then check for 0-60mph results.

What matters is the amount of work performed, and that will be a time integral over the HP curve in the RPM range used. High but sharp peak will not necessarily be better than low and flat.

/Elak

I don't care about numbers, I care about how it feels on the road. Numbers, both from the factory and in magazines are poor marks to judge by since they are invariably inaccurate. My statements and opinions stem from my test drive of a 6spd the other day.

Maybe my comments were harsh, and I never implied you to be a troll, a mustang hermit would be more appropriate. Throughout your posts you mention the RX8 has no power, probably good enough for your wife, and mutiple mention of your manly cobra. (A very fine machine in its own right). Many people who drive a Rotary for test drives or for a short periods of time,(me for one many years ago) drive them with preconcieved notions of a piston driven machine. This innate misconception ingrained in us by Ford, GM, Dodge, Honda, and many others, is that at or around 4500 or 5000 RPM you need to be thinking seriously about shifting. Right assupmtion for your Cobra, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG assumption for the one and only rule breaking Mazda rotary. It is at the 4 to 5K RPM in the rotary that you start to play, have fun, get real happy, and most of all, learn to respect the amazing difference between a rotary engine and its conventional counterpart. Most are afraid to make the jump, very few who do return to the status quo. No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Maybe my comments were harsh, and I never implied you to be a troll, a mustang hermit would be more appropriate. Throughout your posts you mention the RX8 has no power, probably good enough for your wife, and mutiple mention of your manly cobra. (A very fine machine in its own right). Many people who drive a Rotary for test drives or for a short periods of time,(me for one many years ago) drive them with preconcieved notions of a piston driven machine. This innate misconception ingrained in us by Ford, GM, Dodge, Honda, and many others, is that at or around 4500 or 5000 RPM you need to be thinking seriously about shifting. Right assupmtion for your Cobra, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG assumption for the one and only rule breaking Mazda rotary. It is at the 4 to 5K RPM in the rotary that you start to play, have fun, get real happy, and most of all, learn to respect the amazing difference between a rotary engine and its conventional counterpart. Most are afraid to make the jump, very few who do return to the status quo. No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.

"Mustang Hermit" is a term I can accept:D. I think it's accurate. I have driven many different cars, but owned nothing but mustangs, so my understanding of (but not appreciation for) other cars has been limited, to be sure.

I agree with you completely about the need for high revs on the RX-8, which takes us back to my thoughts about the gas milage that I was trying to suggest in my post a few posts up. While test driving the Rx-8, the salesman actually told me to drive it like I would my own car, so I did:p . It kicked second out fairly well:).

I like to think of myself as an individual who has an open mind, and I thoroughly enjoy learning about other vehicles. I can assure you that I'd not consider buying a car for my wife if I thought there was something wrong with it. I had much more fun driving the 8 than I did the WRX, even though the Subaru felt faster (I'm sure that's only due to the low end torque). There is no topping the style of the RX-8, and the comfort/interior of the Mazda is completely in another league altogether.

I've never been one to leave a car stock anyway, so the speed isn't so much of an issue to me as long as there's room for mods. Do you expect the 8 to have any difficulties pulling more power from it? I know the RX-7 was easy, but that was because of the turbo. If they could have kept the HP rating the same for both AT and MT, then I probably wouldn't be worried about it.

Originally posted by RX-Hachi
The June Best Car's (Japanese car mag) test results of the 250 ps vs. 210 ps versions of the RX-8 seem very odd. Both cars got about the same time for 0-100km/h (0-62mph) and 0-400m (Japan's 1/4 mi.) What's more the 0-100km/h of 7 secs is way off the pace for the 250 ps high power. Perhaps it's not just the US models with a power shortage...

http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-8/magazine/Image/BestCar_03_6-26_03.jpg

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom. I'm glad to see this happen without any kind of intervention. From lethalchem posts in another thread, I knew where he was coming from. Chuck unknowingly misinterpreted his post here. Both came to an understanding. Way cool & I celebrate the both of you!!!:D :D :D

With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.

You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!

We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!

Car magazines have tested 0-60 in 5.9 sec. So, I don't care if it's 220 or 247hp for the 5.9sec. I am still getting it.

Originally posted by jonalan
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.

You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!

We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!

jonalen,

Good post. I agree with you 100%

The real injustice is that there are 2-3 posters here that either decided against the RX-8 earlier (before the dyno controversy) or never intended to buy it in the first place, and they are the ones that are making the most noise about the so-called missing HP. I won't name names, but most people that reads through these threads can pick them out. Real shame.

In addition I agree with people that think like MPester. If the car ends up getting the performance results, why get hung up about the HP numbers? Before some of the dyno results came out, all you heard was how much everyone liked how fast it was, or how much power there was. Now all you hear is that there COULD be up to 23% hp loss to the wheels, and this car is now a POS slug of an automobile. NOTHING changed to make this car slower between then and now, EXCEPT for the suspected HP numbers, and that perception in some people's minds.

Originally posted by jonalan
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.

You're not computing the votes correctly. 38% of people would NOT have preordered at the CURRENT price point if the Renesis is only making 220hp. So only 31% would have still got the car.

I agree with the above post, let's see some real life 1/4 mile times and that will tells us how fast the car is. But what about that Japanese mag getting almost exact acceleration times for BOTH the 210ps and 250ps versions? How do you explain that? :confused:

Also, I hope you are not including me in one of those "two or three" people that are "stirring" the pot. If you look at the poll there are a lot more concerned owners than three. The only reason I would like to get to the bottom of this is because I'm very serious about the 8 being my next car next spring and I would like it to have the advertised 247hp.

Originally posted by Quick_lude


But what about that Japanese mag getting almost exact acceleration times for BOTH the 210ps and 250ps versions? How do you explain that? :confused:


I don't know how to explain that. Let's wait and see if Mazda releases some form of explanation. If somehow that acceleration times was only for the 210ps, then the 250ps should have great numbers. If these acceleration times was only for the 250ps, then those times was satisfactory for me to justify my purchase.



Originally posted by Quick_lude

Also, I hope you are not including me in one of those "two or three" people that are "stirring" the pot. If you look at the poll there are a lot more concerned owners than three. The only reason I would like to get to the bottom of this is because I'm very serious about the 8 being my next car next spring and I would like it to have the advertised 247hp.

Like I said before, I'm not naming names or openly pointing fingers. If the shoe doesn't fit, then don't worry about it. There are some posters here, as evident on various threads, that the shoe fits perfectly like Cinderella's glass slipper.

I do agree that Mazda needs to provide some comforting answers for those like you that are in the market for the RX-8.

But honestlly, if the car got 6 sec 0-60 times, would you care if the rear hp was only 187 instead of 207? Like I said before I'm not hung up about the HP numbers, as long as the car turns performance times like the magazine reviews. If it does turn out there is that much loss (23%) to the rear, I would be depressed from the excessive loss. But on the contrary, I would be pretty damned impressed from the performance it is getting on that 187 hp, as compared to cars that are at least 10-20% higher HP.

I find it kind of strange that a Japanese mag is posting numbers on a car that is not readily available in Japan. The Japanese automatic and 6MT both came with the 210 HP engine, they do not drive a 250 HP version of the RX8. Maybe they were comparing the auto and 6 MT Japanese version cars that are both 210 HP, thus giving them similar numbers.

Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
But honestlly, if the car got 6 sec 0-60 times, would you care if the rear hp was only 187 instead of 207?I do. Maybe then it would go even faster! . I would personnaly not mind out-accelerating the EVO VIII, if not just to shut these speed demons from the other side UP! We could have our cake AND eat it too, wouldn't that be nice?

I want Mazda to deliver what we all paid for! Are you reading this Mazda? Why have a carbon graphite driveshaft, an aluminum hood, etc...? I want the 250 hp to go along with all that. If you don't, fine. I do.

I'm picking mine up this week, hopefully today. I just want all 250 horses under that aluminum hood! I paid for them, so I want all 250 of them. It's only right and fair. I can handle the problems that come with it, but only if Mazda owns-up to them and fixes the problem in whatever way is deemed acceptable by all. Fisrt thing is they gotta start the communication flowing here. It's amazing to me how they can remain so darned silent!

Some of you may or may not know that a similar problem happened with the Cobra in 1999. As more owners dynod, it was evident that there was 20hp missing. Ford put out a recall, and the intake was replaced with the proper one, fixing the problem. I find this encouraging, and perhaps there would be a similar recall on the RX-8 IF they did indeed find a descrepency. I doubt anyone would really care that Mazda didn't speak up about it, as long as they fixed the problem in the end.

As for me, I'm just disapointed they had to limit the rpms on the automatic. All new (meaning new chasis design/first year released) vehicles will have little bugs to iron out. I just wish it was in another area because I know we (wife and I) won't want to wait to buy the car, but I also know that Mazda will fix the problem and bump the AT HP up where it belongs in the next year or two..then I'll be grumpy:p .

Lethalchem,

Check your private messages.

---jps

Originally posted by MPester
Car magazines have tested 0-60 in 5.9 sec. So, I don't care if it's 220 or 247hp for the 5.9sec. I am still getting it. These numbers were all achieved with pre-production cars. The only production car result I have seen is the very recent Japanese magazine artice which shows 0-60 in 7.04 and 400m (1/4 mile) in 14.97. In both cases the 210PS (207HP) car was <0.1secs behind. Note that I can only understand the numbers table, the text might show extenuating circumstances for the 250PS (247HP) car. Oddly enough RotaryNews thought the production car they drove at Mazda's invitation months ago felt faster than the pre-production vehicle they also got to drive.

RX8-U-UP:
You are wrong about the 250PS 6MT not being available in Japan - do a search before making such statements:
Originally posted by JSG
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual

John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JSG
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual

You may think Japan has three versions of cars, but they all get the same numbers, that can't happen. Sound like a standard 5 speed, standard six speed, and an auto four speed duking it out with the same 210 HP engine.

Yep, but one of those 210PS engines should be making 250PS - that's the problem in a nutshell. ;)

I don't THINK this - I KNOW that in Japan the S-type with 6MT has 250PS (247HP) according to Mazda, and several on this forum have bought one since it was released there in April. Where is you evidence?

Do you really think that Mazda will offer a 250PS 6MT car to the rest of the world and not in their own country where emissions regs are much more lax and most cars make more HP than in the USA (e.g. a 240HP S2000 in the USA makes 250HP in Japan).

I know this sounds redundant. Everything that seems to be happening, sounds like the indications descibed when the third ports were not being used, either by programming error or mechanical failure. A 247 HP engine without its third ports operating is essentially a 210 HP engine. Or even worse, as some results have shown, if the ECU starts dumping fuel in anticipation of ports openning, and they don't, that could explain the lag some people feel at the point where they should feel a surge. The less than optimum performance specs in the band where performance should be peaking is another indication of this problem. As opposed to the 210 HP engine, where the ECU and ports are working perfectly, according to the mapping and controls that are set up. Those long ago threads and magazine articles that talk about a kick when the third ports open up, I don't feel. It doesn't feel bad, it just dosn't feel as described. My money's on another third port error, either by design, or otherwise. I'm getting close to 1500 miles, so I will soon put the design alternative to rest. Partial Zoom, Partial Zoom.

More knowledgeable people than you and I have debated this at length already. Compaddicts dyno graph shows the tertiary ports opening at the correct rpm (small blip on curve) - the graph itself is as expected up to 6000rpm but above that it has the right shape but is not steep enough. A/F ratio is the current most likely culprit (see Paul Yaw's comments - we are not worthy!) which might be be modifiable via ECU update (it might even happen automatically at, say, 5000 miles).