If You Can Get An Employee Discount, You Can Get a New Jeep Liberty 4x4 for $59/month (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051228/AUTO01/512280330)

This is on a 24 month lease with 1k down at signing.

It's making my whole snow tire/wheels issue more vexing.

Get the 4x4, hell my cable bill is twice that per month.

Jeep. It'll come in handy when you have to haul big mods around for the 8. PLUS it can be a daily driver.

Jeep......it's probably better on gas by $60 per month. So you'll be saving on miles, tires and gas. It's a win-win-win situation.

I think the article is wrong. You can't even touch a 4x4 Liberty sport for under 23k, which drives up your lease payment.

It's making my whole snow tire/wheels issue more vexing.

You're not paying attention - you'd just need to get snow tires for the Liberty instead! ;)

If you have to drive in snow - all-season tires SUCK. Dangerously. Not nearly as bad as summer performance tires do, but they're not nearly as good as proper winter tires.

Sure, the Liberty has 4WD - so you can get moving easily and quickly, even with all-seasons. What are you planning to do when you want to turn or stop and it's icy? Sliiiiide... crunch. Happens all the time, that's why you see more AWD and 4WD vehicles crunched and in the ditches - the 4WD makes them overconfident, but they aren't any better able to turn or stop than the ordinary cars that they go blasting by.

Your RX-8 on winter tires would be safer than the Liberty on all-season tires. It will stop and turn better, and still get going just fine.

Gord - I have a Liberty now, which is about to be turned in under my previous lease.

I've never driven a more confidence inspiring vehicle in the nasty shit (mud, snow - whatever) than the Liberty; on Goodyear Wranglers.

I was out in the worst snowstorm Michigan had in 6 years (Jan or Feb of '05) with the Liberty. Very few vehicles braved it. The Liberty was unstoppable. Didn't even wince on unplowed side roads or while bisecting massive snowdrifts in parking lots.

I was out in the worst snowstorm Michigan had in 6 years (Jan or Feb of '05) with the Liberty. Very few vehicles braved it. The Liberty was unstoppable. Didn't even wince on unplowed side roads or while bisecting massive snowdrifts in parking lots.

That's my point - how hard is it to stop when the snow 10"+ deep? Anything will stop, just let off the gas! Sure, the Liberty can get moving again, but that's not the conditions that I'm talking about, the once-every-6-years snow storm.

How about the 2" of snow packed down into hardpack snow and ice? The frozen rain? Those are the more common conditions in winter, and THOSE are the conditions where winter tires make all the difference for cornering and braking ability. You know, when you're approaching a stop light or stop sign, touch the brakes, and the ABS starts hammering or the wheels lock and slide? That's when winter tires pay for themselves many times over...

Check out the www.tirerack.com web site - they've done some direct comparison tests of winter vs. all-season tires. Going isn't the issue in winter, it's stopping that is more critical, and you'd be surprised at the difference! AWD/4WD doesn't help you stop better or corner better - only the tires will make a difference for that.

If I were to get a Liberty, I'd opt for the turbo diesel. :D

That's my point - how hard is it to stop when the snow 10"+ deep? Anything will stop, just let off the gas! Sure, the Liberty can get moving again, but that's not the conditions that I'm talking about, the once-every-6-years snow storm.

How about the 2" of snow packed down into hardpack snow and ice? The frozen rain? Those are the more common conditions in winter, and THOSE are the conditions where winter tires make all the difference for cornering and braking ability. You know, when you're approaching a stop light or stop sign, touch the brakes, and the ABS starts hammering or the wheels lock and slide? That's when winter tires pay for themselves many times over...


Gord, I don't know how it is in Calgary, but in MI we use salt on the roads. I have lived in MI for 16 years and driven in MI winters for 14 of those. I've had all kinds of cars and trucks and never once had an issue with ice conditions on major roadways. If you live in most of the US, then a Liberty 4x4 with all-season tires is more than you'll ever need. I still drive my RX8 with the stock rubber on most days here in MI and do ok. Only the worst snow storms keep me off the main roads.....until the salt trucks go by....then I'm smoooth sailin'.