Ok, here is the deal. I was coming home late in a mild Utah snowstorm the other night and it was a total white-knuckle experience. I did pretty well considering that I commute one way 40 miles to work. The worsted part came at the end when I tried to turn onto my unsalted and unplowed street. The moment I started to turn, my 8 went into an immediate 270-degree spin and I found myself sitting at the stop sign as though I was about to turn right, back onto the street I just turned off of. To add to the aggravation, I could not quite make it up my driveway when I did get home.

This all lead me to the following situation. I am looking seriously at buying a 1998 Audi Avant Quattro as my winter/foul weather car. I know it is a wagon but I am a family man after all. I am mostly looking at it because the gas mileage is ok for the amount of hp, it is all wheel drive, it has lots of space for picking up home improvement stuff amongst other things and most important, it is quite comfy for my ridiculous commute.

I am opening up this thread because I value for any comments you guys may have on the car. Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with it?

Here is the autotrader.com link

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=184533609&dealer_id=55101935&car_year=1998&search_type=used&make=AUDI&model=A4&distance=75&address=84058&advanced=&certified=&bkms=1133387680624&max_price=&sort_type=priceASC&min_price=&end_year=1998&start_year=1998&isp=y&lang=&cardist=34

thanks again.

Do you have snow tires? if not, buy some, then take a car control school. If yes, then take a car control school.

Have no snow tires. Have no desire for snow tires on my 8. looking at another car to keep my 8 out of the nasty salt, snow and ice.

Does emergency vehicle operation as part of my Police training count as "car control school"?

Thanks for the reply.

Alright. I just didn't want AWD to be a knee jerk reaction. It most often is, and that's why america is obsessed with it.

As for the Audi. I don't know, I'm not to familiar with it. Though, it's older, and german, whcih means it costs a lot to repair, and will likely break down. What's your budget?

between 7 and 8 k. i want something nice that will be good in the snow but i don't want an suv. something stable and comfy on the freeway with a little pep and lots of nice features. I spend way to much time in my car.

I also want something that wont break my heart if one of my offenders on my case load decides to vandalize it to get back at me for something. (i worry about my 8 for this reason all the time.) :(

older legacy or impreza

If you really want AWD and don't want to spend too much, why not look into a Subaru - maybe an Impreza 2.5RS. They're decent, cheap AWD transportation which you won't have to worry about too much. (Ugh, I feel like Ike) :p:

If you really want AWD and don't want to spend too much, why not look into a Subaru - maybe an Impreza 2.5RS. They're decent, cheap AWD transportation which you won't have to worry about too much. (Ugh, I feel like Ike) :p:

Funny you should bring this up. My wife and i had a long talk about this. I even considered trading in my 8 for an STI for about .000000095 seconds. The problem is that both my wife and i pretty much agree that we don't like the styling of the Subaru line in general. (sorry Ike, please no hate mail. i respect them, i just don't want one.)

Hahaha, don't worry, there are lots of people in the same boat as you. I don't like the looks either, but they would make an intriguing winter beater (if I needed one). As far as another reliable AWD car might be a 325xi - I suppose they're not the most reliable or the cheapest cars in the world, but I do loves me some BMW. :D:

I'm racking my brain here, and I can't come up with anything awd, cheap, and reliable and comfy. If I were you, i'd be looking at front drive cars. Older camrys, maximas, accords, etc etc.

Hahaha, don't worry, there are lots of people in the same boat as you. I don't like the looks either, but they would make an intriguing winter beater (if I needed one). As far as another reliable AWD car might be a 325xi - I suppose they're not the most reliable or the cheapest cars in the world, but I do loves me some BMW. :D:

Well, a BMW would be my first choice. I had a 318i when i was single and i loved it, but i think we are set on this Qattro unless my brother (awesome mechanic) can find something wrong with it or you guys can come up with some personal experience with these cars that would reasonably preclude me from getting it.

One nice thing about my brother is that no matter how expensive the parts get, the labor is free. He's pretty much the best brother ever. Although, every time i start looking at German cars he tells me i'm "farfromthinkin" (chuckle)

it probably wont help you much. I currently have a 2001 A4. i have had it for 6 months and havent had any real problem with it. I also live in Utah. Havent had a real chance to see how it goes on the deep stuff though. take care.

The A4 V6 quattro was my previous car. Water, snow, ice, nothing can stop them quattros. Our second car (my wife's) still is an Audi quattro, but a more recent model (2003), and diesel (worst diesel on the market re NVH).
Mine was a 96 MY and developped some A/C problems (compressor AND evaporator). Some of it got payed under warranty depsite the car being second hand and with 145.000 km on the clock. But apprently the A/C supplier changed in 96/97 so you should be OK. Other than that, the odd wheel bearing at the back at 200.000 km). The engine and transmission felt like they would run 400.000 km. When I bought the RX8, the car went to live a 3rd life in Finland...

Thanks Rasputin and Dragonstar. The more i test drive them, the more i like them for my needs. Now if i can just get one. The one that i was looking at was sold out from under me while i was pondering whether or not to buy it. I found a 96 A4 sedan with 115,000 miles for 6,500 dollars, but you can tell the passenger side air bag has been deployed. I don't really care about not having that air bag but i wonder what caused it to be deployed.

I don't really care about not having that air bag but i wonder what caused it to be deployed.
A car crash!

You can also have a look at twin turbo S4s. Or at the I4 turbo. I think, on top of the V6, you only got these engines in the US . Also, there were 2 versions of the V6, a 12-valve and a 30-valve.

Ok. I am test driving an 97 A4 Quattro 1.8T tomorrow morning which has had two owners and has detailed service records since it was originally purchased. It is a 5 speed with a short throw shifter, lowered springs and cross drilled rotors. It is a 97' with 115,000 miles.

I think i have found "the one". The perfect winter car. Some little performance reminders of my lovely 8 hibernating in the garage combined with good winter handling and a little less paranoia about the nasty effects of salt or idiots crashing into it.

Should be fun.

I also want something that wont break my heart if one of my offenders on my case load decides to vandalize it to get back at me for something. (i worry about my 8 for this reason all the time.) :(
Not an SUV but I got a Toyota Tacoma preruner extended cab as my dayly driver it can houl my toys (Kayak and my rice Roket) I cam park were ever I feel like it and not wory about dings it sits a little hi so I can see the road better it has a limited slip and electric locker a V6 that damn fast for the little truck I can overtake a lot of biger trucks of the line or on the freeway. the gas milage is exelent, I love this darn thing, I only drive the 8 on sat sun and dates the truck is my day to day driver. I drive 60 to 90 miles a day, on the free way and in town, and I have to say you wont be disapointed. http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-2002_Toyota_Tacoma/display_~reviews

Not an SUV but I got a Toyota Tacoma preruner extended cab as my dayly driver it can houl my toys (Kayak and my rice Roket) I cam park were ever I feel like it and not wory about dings it sits a little hi so I can see the road better it has a limited slip and electric locker a V6 that damn fast for the little truck I can overtake a lot of biger trucks of the line or on the freeway. the gas milage is exelent, I love this darn thing, I only drive the 8 on sat sun and dates the truck is my day to day driver. I drive 60 to 90 miles a day, on the free way and in town, and I have to say you wont be disapointed. http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-2002_Toyota_Tacoma/display_~reviews


Yeah. those are good little trucks. My buddy has one. He helped me move many a time. I think i am out of my truck stage for a while though. I traded in my 01' frontier for my 8 thinking i would get better gas mileage on my commute. oops.

Yeah. those are good little trucks. My buddy has one. He helped me move many a time. I think i am out of my truck stage for a while though. I traded in my 01' frontier for my 8 thinking i would get better gas mileage on my commute. oops.
Ha same here I traded in my old car thinking of beter fuel. Ha and I'm terified to drive the car seems like everi one is out to get me and scratch it or ding it. ask your but to lend you his yota, my friend had a nisan also and I dint like it, I drove the tacoma and boom instant love, I was actually going to buy a neon as a dayly driver and drove the truck for the heck of it and fell in love, :mdrmed: and I know wath you mean I used to have a jeep on 35 MTR's and ford axles it was a change :mdrmed:

get a jeep

I put $ down on the A4 i mentioned above. What a great car. Handles and runs great. Nice Toyo tires with good tread for the foul winter season. Turbo is nifty. I wish Mazda would get off their asses and come up with an oem one that would not void the warranty.

Interior has nice sport styling and carbon fiber dash and door inserts. Super clean. Two words, heated seats. Yay. This should make it a little easier to leave my 8 at home this winter.

Feels a little sloppy in the curves but i guess it has a lot to live up to.

If you are still looking and don't mind my wordiness:

I have an 1990 Audi 90 quattro 20V with 150K mi. I bought it from my stepdad, and he did not take care of it. But it is a great car and was a good daily driver for 18 mos. before I bought my 8. It turned me into quite an Audi fan, and I have leaned a lot about Audis and their history. Here some advice:

1. If you are looking at a 1.8T, find one with under 100K miles on it. Those turbos don't last forever and they are expensive to replace.

2. As a rule, I try to avoid any car with performance mods, unless I know exactly what parts were installed and by whom. German cars are very finely tuned, and surprisingly, just throwing in some springs and rotors can have detrimental effects to ride and handling. I know this may raise some eyebrows, but I would be very careful when looking at a used car with over 75K on the clock and aftermarket mods.

3. I have heard that the 2.8s are troublesome after about 75K. Main seals not very tough and timing belts are scary weak after 60K. In 98, 2.8s went from 12 to 30 valves. That's a lot to replace when a belt goes. Not great on fuel either.

3. Like any used car, maintenance is key. Even the most tempremental German car can be dependable and reliable if taken care of. If not, German cars tend to be troublesome and expensive. If you have any doubts, move on. And have any car your serious about thorouly inspected. And ask when the timing belt and clutch was last replaced.

4. Because of the drivetrain configuration, clutches are expensive. Lots of pieces as well, so lots of places for expensive repairs.

5. An audi with regular suspension and all-season tires is unstoppable in the snow. I have a very snowy winter in MN and another in IL under my quattro's belt, and she is very impressive. Set the auto climate to 72, the car waits to start blowing air until it is warm, and the six-way heated seats are beautiful. An Audi is the ultimate winter vehicle. I consistntly take off from stops quicker than SUVs and it corners much better as well; snow or otherwise!

Finally, if you are looking to spend what you are, I would look for a 1.8T, under 90K, check for the last time a timing belt AND the clutch were done, and then have it checked out by your brother. You will spend some money in upkeep, but will be rewarded for it. If the Audi dealers around here were not such jerks, and the Mazda dealer did not work their butt off to get me into a brand new 8 for the same price as a 5-year-old S4, there would be 2 Audis in the driveway. BTW, my 90 is for sale: $1000.

Congrats.... I have been looking at possibly getting a A4 1.8T Quattro myself as a second car. I love my friends - except for the sloppy clutch and shifter.

Congrats.... I have been looking at possibly getting a A4 1.8T Quattro myself as a second car. I love my friends - except for the sloppy clutch and shifter.
I agree on the clutch but this one has a short throw shifter installed that feels really nice.

If you are still looking and don't mind my wordiness:

I have an 1990 Audi 90 quattro 20V with 150K mi. I bought it from my stepdad, and he did not take care of it. But it is a great car and was a good daily driver for 18 mos. before I bought my 8. It turned me into quite an Audi fan, and I have leaned a lot about Audis and their history. Here some advice:

1. If you are looking at a 1.8T, find one with under 100K miles on it. Those turbos don't last forever and they are expensive to replace.

2. As a rule, I try to avoid any car with performance mods, unless I know exactly what parts were installed and by whom. German cars are very finely tuned, and surprisingly, just throwing in some springs and rotors can have detrimental effects to ride and handling. I know this may raise some eyebrows, but I would be very careful when looking at a used car with over 75K on the clock and aftermarket mods.

3. I have heard that the 2.8s are troublesome after about 75K. Main seals not very tough and timing belts are scary weak after 60K. In 98, 2.8s went from 12 to 30 valves. That's a lot to replace when a belt goes. Not great on fuel either.

3. Like any used car, maintenance is key. Even the most tempremental German car can be dependable and reliable if taken care of. If not, German cars tend to be troublesome and expensive. If you have any doubts, move on. And have any car your serious about thorouly inspected. And ask when the timing belt and clutch was last replaced.

4. Because of the drivetrain configuration, clutches are expensive. Lots of pieces as well, so lots of places for expensive repairs.

5. An audi with regular suspension and all-season tires is unstoppable in the snow. I have a very snowy winter in MN and another in IL under my quattro's belt, and she is very impressive. Set the auto climate to 72, the car waits to start blowing air until it is warm, and the six-way heated seats are beautiful. An Audi is the ultimate winter vehicle. I consistntly take off from stops quicker than SUVs and it corners much better as well; snow or otherwise!

Finally, if you are looking to spend what you are, I would look for a 1.8T, under 90K, check for the last time a timing belt AND the clutch were done, and then have it checked out by your brother. You will spend some money in upkeep, but will be rewarded for it. If the Audi dealers around here were not such jerks, and the Mazda dealer did not work their butt off to get me into a brand new 8 for the same price as a 5-year-old S4, there would be 2 Audis in the driveway. BTW, my 90 is for sale: $1000.


Thanks for the great input. I am fortunate with this car in that i have detailed maintenace records going back all the way to the original purchase date. these records include the change of the timing belt at about 70,000 miles amongst other items. Nothing about a new turbo though. Are they really that expensive to replace?

Depends on how you go about it. You can find them on the internet cheaper than you can get it from your dealer. Since you have your brother-I have my father, 30 years in the business-you do not have any weirdness in bringing in a part bought off the Internet to a shop that ususally makes it profit from parts not labor. I am not saying it will go out a predetermined time, just that it can be pricey. Your situation helps a great deal since, as with most European cars, a lot of the cost is in the labor. If you have the records and your brother gives the thums-up, go for it. For more info, check these sites out:
AudiWorld.com
Audifans.com
Fourtitude.com

If you are still looking and don't mind my wordiness:

I have an 1990 Audi 90 quattro 20V with 150K mi. I bought it from my stepdad, and he did not take care of it. But it is a great car and was a good daily driver for 18 mos. before I bought my 8. It turned me into quite an Audi fan, and I have leaned a lot about Audis and their history. Here some advice:

1. If you are looking at a 1.8T, find one with under 100K miles on it. Those turbos don't last forever and they are expensive to replace.

2. As a rule, I try to avoid any car with performance mods, unless I know exactly what parts were installed and by whom. German cars are very finely tuned, and surprisingly, just throwing in some springs and rotors can have detrimental effects to ride and handling. I know this may raise some eyebrows, but I would be very careful when looking at a used car with over 75K on the clock and aftermarket mods.

3. I have heard that the 2.8s are troublesome after about 75K. Main seals not very tough and timing belts are scary weak after 60K. In 98, 2.8s went from 12 to 30 valves. That's a lot to replace when a belt goes. Not great on fuel either.

3. Like any used car, maintenance is key. Even the most tempremental German car can be dependable and reliable if taken care of. If not, German cars tend to be troublesome and expensive. If you have any doubts, move on. And have any car your serious about thorouly inspected. And ask when the timing belt and clutch was last replaced.

4. Because of the drivetrain configuration, clutches are expensive. Lots of pieces as well, so lots of places for expensive repairs.

5. An audi with regular suspension and all-season tires is unstoppable in the snow. I have a very snowy winter in MN and another in IL under my quattro's belt, and she is very impressive. Set the auto climate to 72, the car waits to start blowing air until it is warm, and the six-way heated seats are beautiful. An Audi is the ultimate winter vehicle. I consistntly take off from stops quicker than SUVs and it corners much better as well; snow or otherwise!

Finally, if you are looking to spend what you are, I would look for a 1.8T, under 90K, check for the last time a timing belt AND the clutch were done, and then have it checked out by your brother. You will spend some money in upkeep, but will be rewarded for it. If the Audi dealers around here were not such jerks, and the Mazda dealer did not work their butt off to get me into a brand new 8 for the same price as a 5-year-old S4, there would be 2 Audis in the driveway. BTW, my 90 is for sale: $1000.
I don't really agree with all your points, Sakura.
I've owned 6 Audis since 1991 and 4 of them were quattros. I also had a 12v V6 A4 quattro before my RX8.
The 1.8l Turbo engine is not the greatest powertrain to own as it is unrefined and subject to failures. But the V6s tend to last forever. I've never heard of timing belt failures on gasoline Audi engines and I've never had to change a clutch on any of my however second-hand Audis. These clutches last for a good 200,000 - 250,000 km at least. And the clutch system is similar whether it's a quattro or a FWD. The only difference in the transmission start rearward from the back of the gear box. And I've neve heard of a failure on a Torsen quattro transmission either (I don't know about the Haldex crap they fit on A3s and TTs).
Re winter / all season tyres, they tend to amplify the lack of steering feedback and the understeering trend of an Audi. But they make an Audi quattro almost too easy to drive in very adverse wheather conditions.

Fabrice

I've never heard of timing belt failures on gasoline Audi engines and I've never had to change a clutch on any of my however second-hand Audis. These clutches last for a good 200,000 - 250,000 km at least.

The 1.8T's are pretty well known for popping timing chains around the 80k miles mark - and since its an interference engine its pretty damn pricey when it goes. Clutches are really dependant on the driver - the feel is not very good to start with so it can be very easy to kill one pretty quickly.

Fair points all. I am just relaying the info I have gathered from a couple of years of pouring over Audi enthusiats sites, talking with owners, and talking with Audi mechanics (I lived a block from Anderson Motorsports).

I agree with you that the 1.8T is not as refined, and I prefer the 2.8 from a driving stand point. On the other hand, the 1.8T is better on gas and infinately more tunable. I wish Audi did not give up on the 5 cylinder. What ever floats your boat.

Hondas have a reputation for "popping" timing belts from 65K on, that would not stop me from buying one. But it would make me stop and check when the last a belt was replaced. The majority of engines out there have a belt and require a change at a specified mileage regardless of manufacturer, which is why it is something to look for when shopping used.

I agree with r0tor, clutches, like brakes, are wear items and are VERY dependent on the driver as well as the maintenance performed on the car. My 90 has 150K on the original clutch, but it would cost me almost a $1000 retail to replace it. And no, I have not heard of many transmission failures, only that clutch replacements are expensive. That said, my friends in Bimmers pay a lot to replace clutches too; not necessarily an Audi issue.

I think the important thing is to look for good records, and to familiarize your self with what has been done and what might need to be done in the future. All things to think about in any used car purchase. And from what I have read in English magazines and Web sites, Audi carries a very high reputation for durability and dependability there.

... I wish Audi did not give up on the 5 cylinder. ....
Here, I'm 110% with you!

I know the very long I5 would not fit in the engine bay of the first A4, but Audi could have used VW's sweet VR5 to offer some compensation to I5 addicts like us...
I've owned a '89 Audi 90 quattro 2.2E and a Audi S2 Turbo quattro 20V Avant (model not exported to US if I remember correctly). I still shiver when a hear a 5-pot driving past, even if it is a Mercedes diesel!

Fabrice

Picked up the A4. So far, so good. Awesome in our fresh blizard of snow. This is the first used car that i have ever had where ALL of the little dodads work. Great pick up. The 8 is tucked nicely away in the garage far away from idiots with bald tires and salt strewn roads. All is well with the world.

Congrats!

Very cool Rogue. You'll enjoy it in the snow. Drove my 8 with my new Blizzaks in the 6" of snow last night and tons of fun. After I realized how good the 8 was in so much snow with winter tires, got me to wondering how cool the Audi would be with winters; always driven Audis with all-seasons.

Here she is. Quite nice considering the price. I must admit, I drove my RX today and the poor audi just doesn't hold a candle but she does serve a noble purpose. I am taking her to the Audi dealership for a little tlc tomorrow to sho my gratitude.

Took my AUdi in for the above mentioned TLC and came out with a new timing belt and oil seals. Picked it up at night so i did not notice THE HUGE HOLE IN MY DRIVER SIDE FRONT INDICATOR LENS! WTF! Took it back today before work and to their credit they are fixing it.

Took my 8 to work in stead. Yay.

I don't know why i am telling you guys about all this lame audi stuff. I guess i just feel like venting to someone. The good news is that after those things and some front break rotors i am replacing next week, the dealer inspection says this car is in great shape.