I love it...this moron drops his lit cigarette in the bush, which starts a fire that destroys 75 homes, burns 26k hectares, and kills a forest-fire pilot. His fine? A whopping $1,500.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051108/BCFIRE08/TPNational/TopStories

KAMLOOPS, B.C. -- Michael Barre is guilty of starting the massive Barriere-McLure forest fire that burned people out of their homes and caused millions in property losses, but the only person still mad at him is his wife.

In B.C. Provincial Court yesterday, Judge William Sundhu said he is satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Barre dropped the lit cigarette that caused the fire.

But despite that finding, the residents of Barriere and McLure still say that what happened to Mr. Barre could have happened to anyone.

"No one is mad at him," Barriere resident Bill Pieper said yesterday. "No one blames him one bit."

The only one, apparently, still holding a grudge is Mr. Barre's wife, who is angry he ever spoke about the incident, Mr. Barre said yesterday before heading to court. Reached by phone, he said his wife has asked him not to speak to reporters any more. He said she wishes he'd never spoken to the media.

After the ruling yesterday, Mr. Barre hurried past reporters, declining to talk about the verdict. "I'll speak after the sentencing," he said.

During the three-day trial in September, when Mr. Barre was facing the criminal charge of dropping a burning substance in or within one kilometre of forest, he said he had spoken too soon when he admitted he started the fire.

In the witness box, Mr. Barre said he was doing his best to be truthful and accurate. At the time he admitted his guilt, Mr. Barre said, he was overcome with emotion. Friends had lost their homes. Firefighters had descended by the hundreds into the area to battle the increasingly ferocious blast. The Louis Creek sawmill, which employed a significant number of area residents, had burned down. A suicide was linked to the fire.

Particularly devastating, Mr. Barre said at the trial, was the news that a forest-fire helicopter had gone down, killing the pilot.

Eventually, the fire that started on Mr. Barre's property burned through 26,000 hectares of forest, destroyed 75 homes and forced 3,000 people to evacuate the area in the province's worst forest-fire season in 50 years.

On the day in question, July 30, 2003, conditions were hot and dry, and Mr. Barre carried his cigarette with him up that parched hillside behind his home and dropped it.

"In those conditions, at that time and place, reasonable care was required in putting out the cigarette. It may be reasonable to contend that Mr. Barre ought not to have taken the cigarette with him up the hillside, in those conditions, and that the act of doing so was not duly diligent," Judge Sundhu said.

He dismissed suggestions from Mr. Barre's defence that people taking care of a marijuana grow operation in the vicinity could have started the fire.

Mr. Barre had told fire officials who arrived at the scene of the fire, behind his home in McLure, that he was 90-per-cent sure that he had started the blaze. He also told a reporter that he was responsible. Later, upon reflection, Mr. Barre said, he was upset and in a panic.

In the witness box, Mr. Barre said he was paying attention when he butted out his cigarette and had a routine of stomping and twisting his butts when he was done. He was deliberate in putting his cigarette in a safe, appropriate spot, he said, because he had decided not to throw his cigarette in a pit full of debris, which he knew was more dangerous.

Eileen Reilly, owner of Lily's Café in Barriere, said in an interview yesterday that when she heard someone had been charged with starting the fire, her first thought was that it just as easily could have been her who had done the deed.

"It could have been me. It could have been many people that I know," she said. "I smoke, too, and that's what many people have said. It didn't have to be his cigarette, it could have been one of ours."

Ms. Reilly said she did not know Mr. Barre before the forest fire started. She met him after hiring him to do some construction work in her restaurant. The difficulties he faced made her more willing to give him the work, she said.

Rick Appel, who lost his home in the fire, started a petition in support of Mr. Barre that was signed by more than 500 residents. A civil suit against Mr. Barre, by some of the businesses that were destroyed, is on hold pending the outcome of the judge's decision.

Crown prosecutor Jon Oliphant said that in spite of the support Mr. Barre has received from the community, the case served a purpose.

"This is to bring home general deterrence and explain to others that you can't just be dropping cigarettes in the forests," Mr. Oliphant said. "I'm not sure if this is going to stop people, but I'm hoping it will make people think twice."

Although Mr. Barre could have faced a $1-million fine and a sentence of three years in prison, Mr. Oliphant said that won't happen. No one since Mr. Barre has been charged with the same offence.

A sentencing date has been set for Nov. 29. The Crown is asking for a fine in the vicinity of $1,500.

Defence lawyer John Hogg said the judge gave a well-reasoned decision that will be impossible to appeal. "What he's saying is you can smoke in the bush, but you have to be awful careful and maybe that's the right standard," Mr. Hogg said.

For Mr. Barre, the issue of deterrence has been resolved. Although Mr. Barre feels bad about the ruling, the lawyer said his client has felt worse.

"He felt bad, bad, bad the whole way. This is just more for him to deal with," Mr. Hogg said. "He will have to live with it."

Lol, wow... I don't even know what to say to that.

Um wow.

And everyone's being nice to him?

Uh, that's only worth a $1500 fine and NOT the $1 million fine? I'm pretty sure the damage inflicted was FAR beyond $1500, which would justify the big fine for criminal negligence.

And as for all these smokers" Oh, it could have been MY cigarette," well I guess you shouldn't be so goddamn lazy and find a trash can or something. I guess that woman is saying that all people who smoke litter and are inconsiderate. Most of them just throw their butts wherever, which is just another reason I despise cigarettes. Any of you ever been hit with a burning butt while driving? It's great.

I swear people target my car w/ burning cigarette butts... What's even more fun is getting hit with one in a convertible. Fun way to have to pull over, and find it, and put it out so you don't get a car-b-que

Ya know what? When our system takes things like this SERIOUSLY, and make an example (preferably, more than just one), of idiots like that guy, it will send a message to all the smokers or even people who are just plain dumb, that if you are irresponsible, you WILL pay the consequences..whether that is a huge fine, AND jail time..will be up to the jury. So, unless that happens, we will see this over and over..just because no-one had that sentence, does not justify that he get off with a $1500 fine and a slap on the wrist!!! There will always be people who would point out that he will have to live with it, blah, blah..but you know what? I'm sure that some out there don't give a rats ass about what happens when they do what they do..so..you think they will care that they unintentionally killed someone or burned them out of their house? Nope....

Oh yeah..the point of "it could of been anyone of us smokers" crap..where the hell is the accountability??? EVERYONE has a choice in life! He made a bad one and should step up to the plate to take full responsibility. Whether that is spending time in jail or paying a huge fine, whatever! Instead, he chooses to duck behind the legal system!! What a joke!!! "No one blames him one bit" is a load of BS!

Um wow.

And everyone's being nice to him?

It's Canada, what do you expect :rollingla

Right you are, icy. So let's say someone just backs out of his driveway without looking and hits someone driving by, or worse, someone's little kid? What if he get drunk and rapes a female friend one night after a party? Sure, he didn't mean for any of it to happen, but does that make the acts less deplorable?

Right you are, icy. So let's say someone just backs out of his driveway without looking and hits someone driving by, or worse, someone's little kid? What if he get drunk and rapes a female friend one night after a party? Sure, he didn't mean for any of it to happen, but does that make the acts less deplorable?

I don't know if I've ever seen that many fallacies in a paragraph before.

I really don't like inconsiderate smokers...AT ALL.

Tip's for the smokers out there:

If you want to smoke, go right ahead...BUT STAY THE HECK OUT OF MY AREA OR UPWIND.

If you are in a line (even outdoors) go smoke downwind and away from everyone else.

Got to put a cig out, smash it and toss it in a ashtray...not out your cars window or into flammable stuff.

FYI, once I'm a parent (soon GOD willing) I will ask you to put out your cig if your near my child while smoking...BE READY, don't get mad about it, it's your lungs but you don't own his/her's.




My friend is a high level black belt in a mixed style martial art, and this smoker by mistake burned his hand. He immediately reacted and put the guy on the floor and had his hand in a painful lock. He let go as soon as he figured out what happened...but I laugh about it till this day.

Why don't they charge him with Arson? I wonder if the insurance companies will? :mad: :cussing: :bottom:

maybe because it was an accident, yall there are worse things than smokers, how about for instance the factories that pollute the air and water, how come you don't here about those problems.

Lets not start the debate about what is worse. Come on! The point of the matter is, lack of accountability AND the consequences involved with the action.

Gonnahanvan8, I like your animated pics of the caning..ya know..maybe the Las Vegas mayor had something going there..cane em in public..I would think as a teenage punk, I would embarrassed to do any "criminal mischief" if I wanted another caning in a nationally televised event. I think Singapore does this? Anyone from there? I forgot which nation out there does that, but..great idea!! Guess what kiddies, there are consequences to any "criminal mischief" you are thinking about..here..hell, they don't even do the time...

The guy made a mistake, it's not like he's a hardened criminal and deserves to have his life ruined as a result of what he did. I'm sure the guy feels awful about it, how he feels is probably punishment enough.

Yuu know icyur2 is correct. I'm sure you all have seen this. http://www.tampabays10.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=20844
I'm sure their parents are proud. I won't even go in to the thought that if this was done in a public bathroom what type of activities there are during shower time? :ky: :whipping: :69: :bj:
It's a shame to lose your job because you can't keep you hands of a girls goodies in public.

The guy made a mistake, it's not like he's a hardened criminal and deserves to have his life ruined as a result of what he did. I'm sure the guy feels awful about it, how he feels is probably punishment enough.I wonder how the people feel who lost their homes. Or the family of the guy who's dead because of this *mistake*.

Unless an example is made, smokers are going to keep making these *mistakes* and never think twice about what they're doing.

The guy made a mistake, it's not like he's a hardened criminal and deserves to have his life ruined as a result of what he did. I'm sure the guy feels awful about it, how he feels is probably punishment enough.
Exactly, I actually agree with you! Everyone's sense of compassion is so jaded these days that the consensus is to punish to the fullest extent, and not care to put yourself in the other persons shoes. I bet if you looked in the bushes where he threw his cigarette butt, you'd find 1000 others that just so happened NOT to start a fire. What would destroying his life more than it already is accomplish?

It's true, most people feel sorry twhen they're caught.

It's true, most people feel sorry twhen they're caught.

The guy admited to it, there was no catching involved.

Seems to me he said he was sorry he admitted it. That he spoke too early. But it does go to show that your life can change in the blink of an eye. It's all pretty fragile really.

Cracks me up that rxgonnahave and Boostd 7 both have avatars that are smoking...

Exactly, I actually agree with you! Everyone's sense of compassion is so jaded these days that the consensus is to punish to the fullest extent, and not care to put yourself in the other persons shoes. I bet if you looked in the bushes where he threw his cigarette butt, you'd find 1000 others that just so happened NOT to start a fire. What would destroying his life more than it already is accomplish?Well somebody's gotta pay for the damage he caused. Whom better than the guy who made the *mistake*? Houses don't just rebuild themselves ya know ;)

I just think $1,500 is a joke. What's the point of even having the trial? The court costs are way higher than that. The only people that benefit, even though he's found GUILTY, are the frickin' lawyers.

Well somebody's gotta pay for the damage he cause. Who better than the guy who made the *mistake*? Houses don't just rebuild themselves ya know ;)

I just think $1,500 is a joke. What's the point of even having the trial? The court costs are way higher than that. The only people that benefit, even though he's found GUILTY, are the frickin' lawyers.
No offense meant, but in my opinion that attitude is one of the biggest problems with our society these days.

Some CA bicyclists like to say that flat tires are caused by cigarettes in summer, and beer in winter.

Beer - obvious; broken bottles from idiots in cars who toss them out. When it's raining, glass cuts tires easier.

Cigarettes - because of idiots in cars who toss burning butts out, that cause fires. Consequently roads departments spray herbicides along road shoulders to keep weeds and brush to a minimum so that there's less to burn. Essentially, to make mindless cigarette disposal easier. the herbicide kills off the native vegetation, allowing one plant in particular to thrive. This plant is known as "puncture vine", and produces tetrahedron-shaped thorns which are particularly well-suited to causing flat tires in bicycles.

So, there's no love lost between cyclists and smokers. Though occasionally I will see someone pedalling (albeit slowly) along puffing a ciggie.

No offense meant, but in my opinion that attitude is one of the biggest problems with our society these days.We live in different societies, but ok. Guess I'll agree to disagree.

Dang got me there (Coop). Actually, I'm not a smoker, I just like this pic of Warren. I think the whole thing is unfortunate. I feel bad for all involved. I think $1500 is a small fine tho. At least the little voice screaming "lynch him, lynch him" thinks it is. I have to agree with Boostd too. It's jsut sad to loose you whole house and all you belongings and the lives of you and you family threatened because somebody didn't put out his smokes properly.

Sorry boost, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If the guy is just going to get a small slap-on-the-wrist fine, then they shouldn't have wasted the court's time pressing charges. I don't think he should be held accountable for the complete cost of repairs, but a $10,000 fine wouldn't be amiss. On the other hand, if you think the guy feels sorry enough to only press a $1500 fine, you should let him go without pressing the charges (let him know that you're letting him off of a $10k fine) and not waste the court time.

Yes, he might not be a hard-ass criminal with ill-intent, but as Asmoran stated, if you are going to fine him, do it RIGHT instead of wasting more of our tax dollars on going through the court, only to slap a $1500 fine! Otherwise, let the stupid idiot go, and "hopefully" he'll learn his lesson.

As for those hard-ass criminals, our system is too damn sympathetic towards them anyways, that THEY are getting away with alot less than this poor idiot! So, yes, it might screw up his life if the system was to deal out a harsh punishment, but ya know what? What better way to get the point across than to dish them out so they get the MESSAGE? Same can be said about "would-be" or "wanna-be" criminals..you rob a store, you do time till you pay off whatever you stealed..you rape a child, you get life..you see this in the system? Hell, no!

But it's nice to know that if you do want to burn down a village, it's only gonna cost you $1500. It's a bargain really. As long as you didn't mean to do it. No harm no foul right? Well accept for all the lives that got destroyed.

What the hell guys, don't you get that the guy who started the fire confessed ... they would have NEVER found him otherwise. Then he stood in front of a Judge and was obviously very sincerely appologetic, or the Judge would not have let him off so easy. Like it would be right for the Judge to say "since you're here, we're going to make it worth our while and punish you unjustly".

I doubt any of you, or even myself, would have confessed were it one of us who started the fire. He put his faith in the system to see if for what it was.

But it's nice to know that if you do want to burn down a village, it's only gonna cost you $1500. It's a bargain really. As long as you didn't mean to do it. No harm no foul right? Well accept for all the lives that got destroyed.
It's not like this is the first time anyone has ever been tried for an instance exactly like this. The guy got off easy because he deserved it, others in the past have done jail time or paid much higher fees for the exact same offense.

Or that is the maximum fine for littering and that's all the judge could give him? Either way you slice it, it sucks. Either way he has to pay. His wife is gonna take it out on his ass becauce he forgot to tell her he burnt down the entire village.

I don't know what's fair, that's why I'm not a judge. But I do enjoy watching peoples court.

I wonder how much uproar would occur if Mr. Barre had been a little intoxicated and crashed his car into the forest, starting the fire? Less than the cigarette I'm willing to bet. Cigarettes bring out a maliciousness in people greater than nearly anything else out there. I applaud Mr. Barre for owning up to it, he could very easily have just gone on with his life. The fire would've been cause unknown. It's not his fault the Crown is looking for a $1500 fine, he could very easily be facing worse. Everyone is guilty of doing something that could've put lives and property in danger, most just luck out. Mr. Barre didn't, and he'll live with that pilot's death for the rest of his life.

What the hell guys, don't you get that the guy who started the fire confessed ... they would have NEVER found him otherwise. Then he stood in front of a Judge and was obviously very sincerely appologetic, or the Judge would not have let him off so easy. Like it would be right for the Judge to say "since you're here, we're going to make it worth our while and punish you unjustly".

I doubt any of you, or even myself, would have confessed were it one of us who started the fire. He put his faith in the system to see if for what it was.Actually there's a bit more to this story then the article lets on. The guy was reported to the authorities by an aquaintance who saw him throw out the butt and then later realized that probably started the fire. When questioned, he admitted it. He didn't willingly turn himself in.

It's funny though that his wife is pissed off at him for admitting it. What integrity :rolleyes:

I wonder how much uproar would occur if Mr. Barre had been a little intoxicated and crashed his car into the forest, starting the fire? Less than the cigarette I'm willing to bet. .

Not for me. I hate alcohol almost as much. It causes just as much if not more trouble than cigarettes do. But it so COOL to drink! Beer is sooo great!

And as for confessing, well, I wouldn't have thrown the butt on the ground to begin with. If you've ever had to clean up a parking lot, you wouldn't either, unless you're just inconsiderate and apathetic. But if I had, I would have admitted it. I'm a firm advocate of "what comes around goes around."

Actually there's a bit more to this story then the article lets on. The guy was reported to the authorities by an aquaintance who saw him throw out the butt and then later realized that probably started the fire. When questioned, he admitted it. He didn't willingly turn himself in.

It's funny though that his wife is pissed off at him for admitting it. What integrity :rolleyes:

So why isn't this aquaintence on the docket as well? He could've stopped the fire just as easily.

No doubt. I guess he just thought nothing would happen. After all, it's only "other" people that stuff happens to. Or maybe he wasn't thinking about it at the time.

It's not like this is the first time anyone has ever been tried for an instance exactly like this. The guy got off easy because he deserved it, others in the past have done jail time or paid much higher fees for the exact same offense.
My point was that the prosecutors were only pushing for a $1500 fine. It's not like they wanted to put the guy in jail and the judge said "He seems apologetic, I'll just fine him $1500 instead". If that had been the case I wouldn't have a problem with it, instead I feel like the prosecutors were just wasting time and money.

I say, give smokers more of what they want. Pack those cigarettes with more carcinogens so they die quicker. Make everyone one out of ten explode or something cool. Smokers must be some of the stupidest most inconsiderate people around. STUPID because what fool thinks inhaling comustion waste could possibly be good for them and how much money do they waste on a carton and INCONSIDERATE because they think you have no right not to inhale their stench and 90% of the time they throw them out of their cars. I have a lot of good friends and none of them smoke...not because I look for non-smokers but because I hang out with intelligent people who make good decisions in life. As evil as it is, everytime I see a smoker, I wish lung cancer on them for being so stupid and senseless. Too bad they didn't get lung cancer before having kids and further polluting society.

I say, give smokers more of what they want. Pack those cigarettes with more carcinogens so they die quicker. Make everyone one out of ten explode or something cool. Smokers must be some of the stupidest most inconsiderate people around. STUPID because what fool thinks inhaling comustion waste could possibly be good for them and how much money do they waste on a carton and INCONSIDERATE because they think you have no right not to inhale their stench and 90% of the time they throw them out of their cars (#). I have a lot of good friends and none of them smoke...not because I look for non-smokers but because I hang out with intelligent people who make good decisions in life. As evil as it is, everytime I see a smoker, I wish lung cancer on them for being so stupid and senseless. Too bad they didn't get lung cancer before having kids and further polluting society.
Shocking you're From Kalifornia ...

So sorry that my Grandmother who smoked for 70+ years and died in her sleep at 94 couldn't grant your wish and have died of lung cancer.

I'm lighting up my fattest cigar in your honor right now.

You got the Kalifornia part right. About the only thing we do right here is allow people to breathe some decent air from time to time. Funny you should mention my grandmother who did die at a ripe old age of 84 when I was 14. Guess why we were never too close to her. She smoked all fricking day and stunk and only cared about her cigarettes and soap operas. What a waste. But at least she didn't litter like some morons do. Light up your fatty and enjoy...as long as I don't have to smell it and I don't have to pay taxes for cleanup or FEMA. I'm not really anti-smoker, just anti having to smell the stench. And I do side with you that it is your business and you shouldn't be taxed for it. Just don't make me inhale your smoke the same way you wouldn't want to smell my tailpipe gas.

Yea, you're right ... from time to time is about as often as you get clean air in So Cal.

Would you like some cheese with your wine? Don't make me smell it ... waa ... the smell is sooo horrible ... waaaa ... I hope you all die of lung cancer just so I don't have to smell it .... wwaaaaa!

Hey, let's pass legislation to prohibit anything that might cause somebody a slight inconvenience.

<fart>

No I don't want legislation, just a less sensitive nose. I probably wouldn't hate smokers as much if they didn't litter. And there is no excuse for that. Just because everyone else does it, doesn't make it right. I know I will never rid the world of disgusting habits but that's what the lounge is for. By the way cigars don't smell like ass as much as cigarettes. And you guys don't chain smoke them. There are plenty of ways smokers could be a little considerate and some do but a majority are aholes. I don't eat rice crackers at work because they stink. Same way smokers should think a little about what they force other people to smell. And yes it is that bad and no thanks on the cheese...funny guy... :)

Cigarettes are gross, and I won't touch them ... they're made out of old rope and ground up shoes. They're hybridized for maximum addictiveness. Cigars on the other hand are made for one thing - flavor. Nobody ever talks about how much they enjoy smoking a cigarette. So I agree with you there.

But the way people completely fly off handle about smoking is just ridiculous. It's not like it's a swarm of killer bees that comes out the end of a cigarette, it's just a little smoke ... geez, grow a pair. I saw some other post of yours where you complain about smelling smoke from the car in front of you?!?! You must have some sort of hyper-sensitive bloodhound nose ... or maybe you're just looking for something to complain about.

man you guys who bitch and whine about smoking obviously haven't been anywhere outside of the US/Canada.. When I was in Europe/South America I was really surprised that everyone smokes everywhere! In the malls, stores, restuarants, trains, etc

In Canada, we're barely even allowed to smoke outside! All of the clubs/lounges/bars/etc are all non smoking now.

I personally prefer it that way(no smoking in public) and i am a smoker!

to all those ppl that say smokers only litter and they should be shot, well what about all the other assholes who liter WAY MORE THAN SMOKERS.. ie, corporations spilling their garbage in our waters/air, how about yourselves to.. Did you know your shit and piss is dumped into the great lakes, oceans, etc everyday! Is that considered littering? Maybe you should ask the natives who used to drink from these same lakes how they feel

yes smoking is bad, but it's my decision as to whether I want to smoke, ok second hand smoke is bad, i agree. That's why I personally take it upon myself to move away from any non smokers, or ask permission if they mind me having a smoke..

And obviously the dude who threw the smoke away had absolutley no intention of burning down the forest or destroying ppl's homes.. and if you expect this one man to pay for what, millions of dollars in damage how do you figure he'll do that? at least a $1500 fine is something he can actually afford..

Plus the public humilation this guy must be feeling right now greatly out weighs any monetary cost they could have imposed on him.

oh yea, no offence to anyone :) it's 8:30pm and i'm still at work!!@!#!# grrrrr (and I need a smoke! :D) j/ks

MrJynx

MrJynx go home.

Actually Boostd, I sometimes wish my nose weren't so sensitive. It's a real drag in these situations but good for cooking and eating. Good memory about my previous post and good point about cigars vs cigarettes.

Also I could care less about occasional second hand smoke. It's just a smell thing. I don't mind if I'm out walking and catch a wiff. It's more when I'm stuck in line somewhere and can't get away or in a restaurant and can't sit outside because someone might light up and ruin my meal. Otherwise smoke away, its your business and your business only.

And I have been to Italy, Germany, Switzerland, France and England. Italy seemed to be the worse along with France. Maybe because they were urban areas it seemed worse but man was that smelly.

As for the moron who threw out his cigarette, why can't people put it in their car. And don't tell me it will blow everywhere when you open the ashtray. Figure out some kind of portable container that you can keep in your car. You know you are going to smoke so plan ahead. It won't kill your spontaneity too much. Just because corporations do dumbass things doesn't make smaller wrongs right. Didn't your parents teach you right from wrong? Shit and piss is sent through sanitation plants first here in the USA. Can't speak for Canada. So don't defend stupidity, just admit it and let it be an example to other would be morons who do the same daily without thinking. At least snuff it out before throwing it. Try going to our once beautiful beaches here in Kalifornia. Now the biggest source of trash is cigarette butts. And you wonder why I hate smokers in general. Just like other stereotypes, it is a generality but based in truth. If you don't want people to think that way then change how you act.

Hey you guys were interesting. I can respect that. Have a good one.

MrJynx go home.
At least snuff it out before throwing it. Try going to our once beautiful beaches here in Kalifornia. Now the biggest source of trash is cigarette butts. And you wonder why I hate smokers in general. Just like other stereotypes, it is a generality but based in truth. If you don't want people to think that way then change how you act.

good point, i don't like seeing butts on the beach either.. isn't it illegal now in california to put the smoke out on the beach?? thought i read that somewhere