welp i have no clue what happened. i was driving to meet up with some friends in baltimore today and as i crossed the key bridge on I-695 i came to the toll plaza as i began to accelerate i noticed a big hesitation and than again in 2nd so i got in right lane and just kinda cruised it started acting funny than the CEl started flashing so i pulled over by the time i stopped it was making a horrible grinding noise and then stalled. it would not refire so i called mazda roadside but they would only tow me to closest mazda dealer. i was 2.5 hrs away from home and could not get back up to bmore to get it. so i sat on the side of 695 for 7 hours while i wated to get ahold of friends to come get me and car. i finally got home and tried to start but battery was completely dead (it had been dying lately) so i replaced the battery with a new one and started the engine sounded like it was full of hammers beating the christ outta the engine it did idle though. i will be contacting the dealer after work tomorrow for them to come and get the car and then trying to get them to replace under warranty. anything i should know about this whole situation my car is an 04 6spMT with 26000 miles on it no trac control just a base model. it has always ran beautifully until today. also does the dealer issue a loaner car for temporary while car is being worked on or what? please guys help me out if you can thanx in advance.

how is the oil level???

perfect i check it every other gas fill up so its like 1 time every 3-4 days i'm using 1 qrt per 1k miles on average

Moonrover:

Sorry to hear your car is giving you problems!

Yes, your warranty has a 'loaner' car program so you should have a car for as long as it is @ the dealership getting worked on.

Keep up posted. Good luck

what kind of gas do you use? i'm wondering if your spark plugs took a shit on you. definately keep us posted. keep your head up man!!!

Also, if you have any mods, that affect the engine I would remove those as well. No need to give the a dealership an excuse not to cover it under warranty.

Sucky. Let us know how things turn out, k?

you also better hope Mazda isn't reading these forums, since your thread on 'doing donuts' that tricked a CEL won't help your case on abuse of the engine. :rolleyes:

Wow man that sucks. I have to admit, I am really concerned that the Renesis isn't a very well engineered engine. I mean that is just crazy that while normally driving your engine could blow. I have heard of so many blown engines now. I have never known anyone who had a new car engine just die on them, yet I hear about it almost weekly on this board. I hate to think this way because I love the feel of the rotary and have alot of money invested in my car.

Wow man that sucks. I have to admit, I am really concerned that the Renesis isn't a very well engineered engine. I mean that is just crazy that while normally driving your engine could blow. I have heard of so many blown engines now. I have never known anyone who had a new car engine just die on them, yet I hear about it almost weekly on this board. I hate to think this way because I love the feel of the rotary and have alot of money invested in my car.

the engine failure rate is greatly over blown. yes it does happen, but not as often at it would seem. its just those that it happens to are really vocal about it because its a crappy situation.

I'm an attorney, I'm familiar with lemon-law claims (state statutes) and Magnusson-Moss warranty law (federal).

Doing "donuts" isn't exactly the kind of thing that can invalidate a manufacturer's warranty.

While I pamper my cars, and am a little bit older (30), I would be prepared to take a case in the event that any manufacturer tried to claim such a defense.

In fact, as part of doing so, I would delve into discovery aggressively, obtain all records of the tortuous treatment Mazda subjects its engines and vehicles to as part of the pre-shipping quality confirmation process, and use any such claim against them.

If you've ever seen the manner by which new cars are tested after rolling off the assembly line, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm an attorney, I'm familiar with lemon-law claims (state statutes) and Magnusson-Moss warranty law (federal).

Doing "donuts" isn't exactly the kind of thing that can invalidate a manufacturer's warranty.

While I pamper my cars, and am a little bit older (30), I would be prepared to take a case in the event that any manufacturer tried to claim such a defense.


Yeah? Tell that to the member Abbid, who had his warranty voided for doing over 100mph in his car. He merely typed that he did so, without any video to suport it, and Mazda saw it and instantly voided the warranty.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelelvant. Abbid is living it.

Yeah? Tell that to the member Abbid, who had his warranty voided for doing over 100mph in his car. He merely typed that he did so, without any video to suport it, and Mazda saw it and instantly voided the warranty.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelelvant. Abbid is living it.

If he lived in Michigan, and wanted to hire me, all he would need is the cost of the filing fee of the complaint, which would have to be filed in circuit court.

My fees would be paid by Mazda via the Michigan Consumer Protection Act when we won the case.

I've beaten GM, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, and this would be no different barring any unknown facts that I am not privy to.

Abbid - If you're listening, you really should contact an attorney who specializes in auto warranty issues and lemon-law claims near you.

how does going over 100 mph void the warranty? :confused: Did I miss that stipulation?

Yikes!!!! I was born and raised in Baltimore. Lived there for 40 years but due to job transfer live in Denver for 18 years now. Miss the harbor and the seafood. Sorry to hear about that engine. Please keep us posted on what happened to it and how Mazda will replace it.

i only speak what I read...read more here for those who are unfamiliar with Abbid's woes:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=69015&page=1&pp=15

what kind of gas do you use? i'm wondering if your spark plugs took a shit on you. definately keep us posted. keep your head up man!!!

spark plugs? if he hears hammer like sounds in his engine it ain't the spark plugs. apex seal? do you have anything leaking under tha car?

i only speak what I read...read more here for those who are unfamiliar with Abbid's woes:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=69015&page=1&pp=15

I understand. I never presumed you were arguing the merits and/or validity of Abbid's claims about how Mazda responded to his apparent engine failure.

The internet works in mysterious ways. There may be more to the story than what that thread reveals.

In any event, Abbid has a world of resources at his fingertips if he truly believes Mazda has wronged him.

how awesome would it be if they replaced it with a speed 8 engine? dreaming, but still cool to think about

I understand. I never presumed you were arguing the merits and/or validity of Abbid's claims about how Mazda responded to his apparent engine failure.

The internet works in mysterious ways. There may be more to the story than what that thread reveals.

In any event, Abbid has a world of resources at his fingertips if he truly believes Mazda has wronged him.

his engine didn't blow his tranny did but yea i see what you're saying.

i always use 93 octane and i treat my car very well thanx about the donuts thing i dunno what your talkin bout must have me confused with someone else

i dunno what your talkin bout must have me confused with someone else

well played ;)

I think this is situation is over blown. Yes this sucks but i don't think this is how the car will be. I work at a multi-brand new car dealer in the service department. I see things like this alot, and not just with Mazda. I have seen 2 week old Jettas spit out motors, I have seen new BMWs have a short and catch fire. I think we need to really sit back and think of how many motors are really blowing up. I was at a Toyota dealer and saw Supras eating up rings. Same with 350Zs. I not sticking up for Mazda but I think we need to look at the big picture. It does suck but I would hope Mazda will stick behind their flagship car.

in fact we dont even know if this engine is blown yet. ridiculous overblown thread no 23 of the day.

Also, if you have any mods, that affect the engine I would remove those as well. No need to give the a dealership an excuse not to cover it under warranty.


yeah thats frikking great advice:( :rolleyes: "if there is a aftermarket par tthat may have caused the failure remove it so they cant figure out what happened. then put that back on with your new engien and blow another one" . yeah real good advice.

it's always a good idea to suspect the obvious. spark plugs could definately go first. more likely than apex seals. if it were the apex seals, it wouldn't idle (he said it did idle). he'd see burning oil/fuel come out of the exhaust...alot of it too. spark knock definately sounds like a hammer beating on the combustion walls. this is just a guess man, diagnosing from behind a computer screen isn't easy.

That sucks man, I hope everything will be ok. I too have a base model no tc, and have the turbo kit, so i'm screwed if this happens to me!

ok well all kinds of smoke was comming out of the exhaust, and it wasn't like a good idle it jumps around than it stalls and it won't rev. it is an EXTREMELY LOUD CLACKING NOISE. i will have it towed to dealer tommorow i had to work all day today and maybe i'll know something by end of week.

Battery dead huh, I'm betting you chucked an alternator... prolly a bearing went bad and it's making all kinds of racket... and seizing which whould put enough strain on the engine to make it hesitate/stall. I've done it in other cars before. The CEL was "blinking" or it just came on? If it was blinking i'm betting the alternator was dying, voltage was intermittent.

it's always a good idea to suspect the obvious. spark plugs could definately go first. more likely than apex seals. if it were the apex seals, it wouldn't idle (he said it did idle). he'd see burning oil/fuel come out of the exhaust...alot of it too. spark knock definately sounds like a hammer beating on the combustion walls. this is just a guess man, diagnosing from behind a computer screen isn't easy.

it's cool. you know more about this stuff than me. :D

ok well all kinds of smoke was comming out of the exhaust, and it wasn't like a good idle it jumps around than it stalls and it won't rev. it is an EXTREMELY LOUD CLACKING NOISE. i will have it towed to dealer tommorow i had to work all day today and maybe i'll know something by end of week.

um...your motor sounds like it's finished. hopefully you have a good relationship with your dealer and they'll replace your motor without too many questions. the computer will also tell them exactly what happend at exactly x rpm @ x mph, etc. etc. cross your fingers man...tell us what happened too.

good luck!!!

i don;t mind them checking the rpms but i doubt they will see much i disconnected the battery to charge it up when i got home so i'm sure the ecus is clear and if its not i don;t mind i was only at 4-5k when it happened

yeah thats frikking great advice:( :rolleyes: "if there is a aftermarket par tthat may have caused the failure remove it so they cant figure out what happened. then put that back on with your new engien and blow another one" . yeah real good advice.

What mods could he really have that would make the engine blow. Intake or exhaust I doubt that would contribute to the blown engine. Now if he has somehow been playing with the computer then yea, just trying to save him a headache that some dealers like to give.

It actually kind of sounds like maybe you lost the front main bearing... when they go the rotor tips can actually make contact with the rotor housing and you get loud clanking, it’ll also cause the corner seal tip area of the rotor to make contact with the end plates. This comes from experience of having one of my 13B's in the FD come apart on the dyno boosting 1.7kgcm on a T70. Since it's a renisis I could be apex seal peice imbedded in the rotor that couldn't get extracted threw the side ex ports grinding on the rotor housing as well. In any case a 13B making under 250 hp shouldn't be coming apart like that under the conditions you were in with out a failure of something important. Did you look to see if it has oil pressure when you had it running afterwards?

ok guys welp engine is deceased, they didn't tear it apart to see actuall failure but they have put an order in for new engine. i'm also going to get them to check the oil metering pump for failure. i got a rental for now so things are pretty good. i'll keep you informed on what i find out. i doubt that i will find out what failed because they are pulling engine and sending it to mazda.

crap. i really want to know what happened excatly to the engine. looks like nowadays nobody really knows about this new rotary engine. i am kind of worried. Mazda says 238 bhp. most people only have around 180-90 bhp. then here comes the greddy which has no understanding over the eninge. Oh. i forgot. then there is the mazda again calling everyone who has the blown transmission abusing their cars. HAHAHA. i wonder what will happen to my RX8. which

yeah i'm debating about trading in and going back to focus svt cause i know it will last and isn't much slower

DON'T trade it in or go to an svt.

This IS a great car. (Despite this issue)

Besides, your car will be good as new after this

Wow man that sucks. I have to admit, I am really concerned that the Renesis isn't a very well engineered engine. I mean that is just crazy that while normally driving your engine could blow. I have heard of so many blown engines now. I have never known anyone who had a new car engine just die on them, yet I hear about it almost weekly on this board. I hate to think this way because I love the feel of the rotary and have alot of money invested in my car.

At Seven Stock they had the formula 1 car in blue. It uses a Rx8 motor. They run it all seaon long and never have to tear it down.

There are other race teams that use it and don't have a problem. Most people that buy the car are young youths. So every time I read this, I believe that there is a strong suspision of abuse. While the engine can take some abuse it doesn't make sense you can race a car for a whole season and never have a problem and then a few street cars have problems.

Anything can happen, but only the owner knows the true story.

I really don't see what the problem is. With the exception of Abbid (who I'm willing to speak to if he ever takes me up on my offer), Mazda has seemed to step up to the plate and has replaced engines or made all repairs in accordance with their warranty provisions.

I"m honestly telling you guys that I basically had multiple cases concerning a sludge build up issue affecting Toyota 3.0 liter engines, and Toyota refused to recognize the problem. Instead, they tried to blame the owners.

As it turned out, class action lawsuits had been filed by the, among others, the California state Attorney General, and legal action was required to force Toyota to replace or repair those engines that had seized.

Experts consulted claimed the problem was too tight of a tolerance between the pistons and cylinder walls, and that excessive carbon buildup led to the seizing.

Mazda appears to be honoring its obligation quite nicely, by comparison.

I am really concerned that the Renesis isn't a very well engineered engine.

All engines have a particular type of weakness or issue. Look at the mazda 6's for example. Few dollar PCV valve breaks and gets stuck open, next thing you know the intake manifold is sucking oil out of the crankcase with a straw, BAM, oil starvation, BAM rod's go spinning.

Shit happens.

I agree with RotoRocket that "most" of the dealerships are working with the owners and mazda to take care of the owners who fall under these situations. At least we aren't dealing with mitsubishi here, who tends to void warranties for any tiny inconsequential reason.

yeah i'm debating about trading in and going back to focus svt cause i know it will last and isn't much slower

I had one of those before I bought this car, no way I would go back. The difference between the 2 are night and day, besides rwd is so much more fun than fwd.

crap. i really want to know what happened excatly to the engine. looks like nowadays nobody really knows about this new rotary engine. i am kind of worried. Mazda says 238 bhp. most people only have around 180-90 bhp. then here comes the greddy which has no understanding over the eninge. Oh. i forgot. then there is the mazda again calling everyone who has the blown transmission abusing their cars. HAHAHA. i wonder what will happen to my RX8. which


sometimes i just want to curse and this is one of them. "Mazda says 238 bhp. most people only have around 180-90 bhp" not that i want to have an hp debate here but you realize your talking about hp claimed at the engine and hp measured at the wheels?two completly differnt measures. then you mention greddy- most people with the greddy turbo using the emanage are having no problems. there were a bunch of early adopters tha thad issues yes. but those have been resolved. lastly there have been plenty of tranny /shift fork problems that have been fixed under warrenty talked about on this forum. so its not every owner nor every dealership.

makes me wonder if we cause more problems on this forum than we alleviate.

makes me wonder if we cause more problems on this forum than we alleviate.

Well everyone always complains about things rather then praising them. I'd say the # of complainer posts outnumber the praising posts by a factor of 100 to 1 if not higher (on the 6 boards). Its understandable, cause the forums would get kinda of stupid if everyone posted...
"My brakes are so fantastic and wonderful and make no noises!"
or
"My car has exactly the amount of horsepower and torque I want!!!"
or
"My engine works perfectly fine today with no problems and good mileage!"

The best thing to do is look at the total population of members on the forum, and figure that if someone isn't posting about a problem or complaint, that they must be happy. If you look at it that way, the actual # of problems on the forum are relatively tiny and minor...usually only a % or 2.

Example: 21,000 members.
100 members with engine problems/trouble.

Thats 20,900 happy members, or 0.47% of the population with engine problems.

Just cross-referencing your two threads. Something tells me it relates to your engine failure... you think?

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=1094907&posted=1#post1094907

productions vehicles WILL ALWAYS have problems...how else is the manufacturer going to make money off of you??

^touche and to be 100% honest with you people i've had the car for 3k miles and have loved every minute, save the engine death. but to be completely honest i DO NOT ABUSE my car. grant it i've done some spirited driving a few times but i can't afford to be w/o a car and my payments are much higher than i am used to so i need to be very careful with it. i wish i knew what failed i'm having the dealer check the oil metering pump and everything else he can. i haven't lost faith in this car just a lil discouraged right now. but the dealer is being extremely kool about it and hasn't made the slightest comment bout abuse or anything of that nature as a matter of fact he ordered the engine the day it was towed there. so i hope this is a good sign of things to come

well...business is going to die down now in the shops. they need work...hahahaha.

"i had been babying it, like never going above like 5k ..."

Why do folks think low revs are good for the car?
--R.

Why do folks think low revs are good for the car?
--R.
Because many rotary experts say it is.

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

Click on "How to break-in your new RX-8"

my car had 23k on the ticker when i bought it but she will get pampered when i get it back till warantee is up and only helpful upgrades like possible cat removal and zaust, header and intake but only things to make it breathe better

Because many rotary experts say it is.

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

Click on "How to break-in your new RX-8"
Racing Beat says:
" - Over 2000 miles, full throttle and high RPM is acceptable."

My question is not why do people think they shoud drive differently for the break-in period, but why do people think that a 9000rpm redline car should really be driven below 5k?
--R.

my car had 23k on the ticker when i bought it but she will get pampered when i get it back till warantee is up and only helpful upgrades like possible cat removal and zaust, header and intake but only things to make it breathe better

I don't personally think keeping the revs low is pampering. On this engine driving below 3k is lugging IMO. The carbon build up problems appear to be caused by habitual low-rev driving, according to all the reports I've read.
--R.

I agree, after the break-in period is over, it's ok and even recommended to keep it over 3k, most definitely when using any amount of throttle, like to accelerate or go up a hill. Occasional excursions in the high rev range are good to keep it clear of carbon build-up (you should have a gut feel for when it needs this). I don't personally think that redlining it a whole lot is good for good longevity - I highly doubt that actually. I also hardly ever take it very high up there, nor use 100% throttle in first gear either - things happen too fast and too harshly in first gear for me and especially if I have any passengers. Again, that's just my personal taste in driving style.

crap. i really want to know what happened excatly to the engine. looks like nowadays nobody really knows about this new rotary engine. i am kind of worried. Mazda says 238 bhp. most people only have around 180-90 bhp. then here comes the greddy which has no understanding over the eninge. Oh. i forgot. then there is the mazda again calling everyone who has the blown transmission abusing their cars. HAHAHA. i wonder what will happen to my RX8. which

Im sorry but thats b.s. Most 8's make that much to the wheel now after the flash unless u have an engine that is running too rich or just wasnt a quality motor.

Who there called my name? I'll talk to anybody about anything, PM me questions and i'll gladly respond.

ok welp i got car back today. new engine/flywheel/oil metering pump/ complete oil flush, new coolant, and ugh i think thats it

final problem was failed metering pump and dead rear rotor. they said oil was extremely sludgy???? i dunno what thats all about i just changed it lest than 2k before???? who knows maybe after breakin i'll go to royale purple i dunno why it sludged on me. oh well wish me better luck with this engine. i can' tseem to find the break in instructions so if someone wants to quick link go for it thanx guys

here is racing beat's guide http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8%20Break%20in.htm

just keep the revs spontaneous. don't keep it at a steady rate. go throughout the power band. do not wide open throttle. make sure you warm up the motor before driving off. you're doing all of this so everything seats in.

glad you got your car back!!!

ok welp i got car back today. new engine/flywheel/oil metering pump/ complete oil flush, new coolant, and ugh i think thats it

final problem was failed metering pump and dead rear rotor. they said oil was extremely sludgy???? i dunno what thats all about i just changed it lest than 2k before???? who knows maybe after breakin i'll go to royale purple i dunno why it sludged on me. oh well wish me better luck with this engine. i can' tseem to find the break in instructions so if someone wants to quick link go for it thanx guys

Sounds like the sludging seems similar to oil coking in Turbos... do/did you make a habit of cooling down the engine before shutting off, esp. after hard driving and hot weather?? Did they ask you about that when they mentioned the oil sludge?

ok well i was drivin around today and lately i had been babting it like never going above like 5k save a few times(rare) and i decided to get on it well i floored it, it seemed a lil weak than the CEL started flashing and in third gear it fellt like power plateaued at 7k. when the light stopped i drove nice for a lil bit than tried again to see if it would do it again... it did same scenario, than later i tried it a 3rd and nothing still felt a bit weak up high in 3rd. Should i check my plugs or any ideas?


also when i start my car in the mornin it makes like a really fast raddle noise only for like .5-1 second any clue what that could be?My guess is that the sludge is just a whole bunch of finely ground-up engine (#). The quote here (from his other thread) sounds to me like his engine was working hard at that time at eating itself, chewing itself into fine dust, which makes sludge in oil. A "failed metering pump" equals no oil metering, which equals heavily accelerated rotor/chamber wear, hence a "dead rear rotor" for starters.

sometimes i just want to curse and this is one of them. "Mazda says 238 bhp. most people only have around 180-90 bhp" not that i want to have an hp debate here but you realize your talking about hp claimed at the engine and hp measured at the wheels?two completly differnt measures. then you mention greddy- most people with the greddy turbo using the emanage are having no problems. there were a bunch of early adopters tha thad issues yes. but those have been resolved. lastly there have been plenty of tranny /shift fork problems that have been fixed under warrenty talked about on this forum. so its not every owner nor every dealership.

makes me wonder if we cause more problems on this forum than we alleviate.
yeah. i am sorry for the mistype thing. but have you ever wondered. for example, just say the S2000 has around 240 bhp or 237. whatever, but the amount of whp they get is about 200 to 210. but what do we get. 180??. you have got to be kidding me if the engines in rx8s are around 237.

for the greddy turbos, yeah, substitue the greddy e manage will help. so that it shows Greddy doesn't know how the car work. otherwise, they will have a better e manage system.

then the mazda dealers. the engine's ability to redline at 9K is impressive. it feels like one of those INDI500 race cars. great. but wait, are rx8s equiped with the right tranny to handle the Revs. i don't think a Miata transmission will do good to the car.

Hey, sorry to hear about the death. Cheers to your dealear for proper customer service and handleing your problem quickly and without hassle. I think if I were you, I'd appreaciate them, it's lovely not to get hosed when things are going bad to start with.