In a major milestone, and a world first, Phil from GSR has sucessfully run an RX-8 with the factory computer AND a Motec M800 ECU. The factory computer is in control of all normal functions, except fuelling. As a first step, the fuel injectors (all 6) were driven directly by a Motec M800. We have left the RX-8 PCM to drive the ignition without interference. Next step would be to drive the ignition via the Motec.

It had been stated that the M800 would not work on an RX-8 as a piggy back, and only stand alone. Sometime you just need to learn from personal experience. And trust me, Phil would have to be the most experienced in the business.

So what side effects does it have??? Let me put it this way...

No splicing of wires. We just made a plug and play loom.
No CEL.
Aircon works fine.
ABS works fine.
T/C & DSC works fine.
Cruise Control works fine.
Stereo works fine.

I.e all the creature comforts. http://www.hymee.com/smilies/sm_bounce.gif

Since it is a "piggyback", and not relying in any way, shape or form on the OEM PCM's fuelling strategy, and not "tricking" the PCM in any way with falsified sensor readings, the full fuelling stategy is controlled by the Motec.

This means we started with a blank sheet of paper in terms of a fuel map. So first, we needed to get it started. Then running. Then driveable... Every RPM and every throttle position. Not for the faint hearted!

We now have a base tune-up, and it needs to be tuned properlyto iron out some issues. We did about 100km of driving round doing real time tuning, but we need to get some dyno time to tune it properly.

On "cruise" the Lamda hovers nicely around 1.0. Remember the PCM is not doing closed loop adjustments here, the Motec is in complete control of all fuelling. Instantaneous fuel consumption on cruise looks the same as before (Measured with the sCANalyser).

One of the great things about the M800 (apart from being the best piece of kit available) is the detailed logging it can do while driving around, and then Phil can then upload the log into his laptop, and check out what is going on and make the necessary adjustments to the tuneup.

I can't reveal who's car this was done on. :) Nor can I give away too many secrets.

Next project is to reprogram the stock PCM ;) One day.

I took some pictures, and video's, but i'll put them up another time. Time now for some shut-eye.

http://www.hymee.com/smilies/sm_pray.gifThanks to Phil from Graphic Skills Racing for the great work!! http://www.hymee.com/smilies/sm_thumbs.gif

http://www.motec.com.au/m800.htm

Cheers,
Hymee.

That sounds very promising!
Is this the ECU you are planning on using with your SC kit?

That sounds very promising!
Is this the ECU you are planning on using with your SC kit?

Well, I guess it is by far the highest quality option. I'm thinking of offering different alternatives, but you get what you pay for! I'd dearly like to re-program the stock PCM.

Cheers,
Hymee

that soudns awsome, cant wait to see some numbers and future adjustments, keep us posted

Teh greetness :D This past month has been an awesome one for ECU development. Keep it coming! Thanks for the link Hymee :)

Congrats!
Motec M800 = $$$.
You're right though, you get what you pay for.

I'd dearly like to re-program the stock PCM.

Cheers,
Hymee

somebody might beat you to it, Hymee. congrats on getting the motec working in that fashion. its a little pricey tho



Price:

$3,527.70
inc GST within Australia

from http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIABV8/category30_1.htm

Hymee's Supercharger is so close I can almost taste it :D

Hymee we did it the EXACT same way with the Megasquirt. It's easy to get any standlone working on the RX-8 as far as fuel only goes. We are working on the ignition right now. The Motec can read the stock trigger wheel so you shouldn't have any issues with splicing in. I even know which wires to use. The setback for us is we have been waiting for the code to be written for ignition. It is almost done. Motec is the best out there and certainly nicer than my Megasquirt. But you do know that even my little $200 Megasquirt can datalog runs too right? ;)

RG would it be out of the question to have Hymee use your Megasquirt app for his SuperCharger to keep his prices much lower?

(I'm sure it has been discuss before but since u are around I'd like to here it from you anyhow :))

He'll have to fight Richard for it.

RG,

We are already spliced into the crank angle sensor. We need to be: to fire the injectors at the right moment, and to get RPMs.

The Motec already gives us total control of ignition (as proven in almost countless Rotaries Phil has installed and tuned Motecs), it is just we have not looped it in yet on the RX-8. 1 step at a time.

I don't see why I can't offer this as one option for those with impeccable taste, and a uncompromising desire for quality, reliability and tunability, proven in the rigors of battle. Then we can have "more economical" versions as well.

Cheers,
Hymee.

He'll have to fight Richard for it.

You don't get it ya bastard. ;) :D :)

Me (this bastard) and that other bastard (Richard) don't fight! We are mates. :D

Cheers,
Hymee.

You don't get it ya bastard. ;) :D :)

Me (this bastard) and that other bastard (Richard) don't fight! We are mates. :D

Cheers,
Hymee.
You mate with Richard? :p :eek:
Silly talk from down under. J/K :D

why not just use the interceptor, it is cheaper than a motec and does the same thing.

I still don't understand how any of these units cost over $500...it is ridiculous

RG and Mega Squirt is proving that

I still don't understand how any of these units cost over $500...it is ridiculousThen you don't understand business operating expenses and overhead--much less profit margins. MegaSquirt is an open source project that relies upon free R&D costs, no fixed costs, no insurance liabilities and no payroll/benefits/tax issues.

It's sorta like saying you don't understand why PlayStation games cost $40-50 when it clearly costs less than $3 to mass produce the DVD and packaging.
________
VAPIR DIGITAL AIR ONE REVIEWS (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

I'm not trying to downplay the Motec. It's an awesome system. I'm just giving him a hard time. ;)

Then you don't understand business operating expenses and overhead--much less profit margins. MegaSquirt is an open source project that relies upon free R&D costs, no fixed costs, no insurance liabilities and no payroll/benefits/tax issues.

It's sorta like saying you don't understand why PlayStation games cost $40-50 when it clearly costs less than $3 to mass produce the DVD and packaging.

I know I know I'm just being a snot about it :p

Interesting times as the chinese would say looks like people will have a choice of 6 different supercharged systems within the next few weeks .

HKS , PETTIT ,BLITZ , HYMEE , Richards ,Rotormasters :confused: were to spend the $$$$$$$$. :D

2 FOR THE Aussies 2 for the Americans 2 for the Japanese :D but which will be the best most reliable and cost effective power to $$$$ value ???? :confused:

B...free
michael

Sounds great Hymee...hope we can see, hear and have a run in it in October :)

Love to see real work with Motec. I want the local have done will the fuel control! The Japanese has it all along and they are not sharing with us (since all the software are in Japanese!)

Well done Hymee. I am saving up now!

why not just use the interceptor, it is cheaper than a motec and does the same thing.

From a laymans point of view, that might appear to be the case. In reality they are worlds apart, and are essentially incomparible. There is good reason for the price difference.

But I'm not going to argue the case any more here. I've said this will be the "gold plated" option for those who want the best, and we have other aces up our sleeve for the "cheaper" options. But none of them are going to be any $2 peice of junk.

Hopefully I can release soon the availability of PlugNPlay wiring harness for the RX-8 and Motec. :) Oops - who said that?

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hopefully I can release soon the availability of PlugNPlay wiring harness for the RX-8 and Motec. :) Oops - who said that?


Hymee will you marry me! ;) :D

Hymee will you marry me! ;) :D
You are already legally married.... :)

You are already legally married.... :)


But she's not supercharged, nor doe's she run on Motec.

Besided Hymee maybe cheaper to maintain. A little bit of rum and he's happy! :D


Hymee you really do now have me looking forward to the Nationals. I had all these plans for before the nationals but now they are all on hold to wait and see what you come up with!

Well done lads!

Fabrice

will the M600 work?

I guess the M4 will work. We just had a M800 to play with.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Yesterday we spent 1/2 day hooking the ignition control over to the Motec. So now the Motec is in complete control of the engines fuel and spark.

Phil Laird of Graphic Skills Racing is absolute genius. He started with a blank peice of paper in-so far as a tune-up is concerned. Remember, the Motec is in complete control of fuel and spark. This includes which injectors fire when and for how long. And spark, including leading/trailing split.

Without even being near a dyno, he has now tuned it to be completely streetable. I would even let my wife drive it. It drives as effortlessly as stock, without any thought needed.

The results so far are a testiment to Phil's ability and knowledge.

So sucessful has this experiment been with a stand-alone engine management system in harmony with the factory computer, the S/C project is steaming ahead. When I said in that thread that we didn't have any ECU issues, I was right!

Cheers,
Hymee.

I can't wait to get our megasquirt project to this point, the Motec's have muc larger maps and a faster processor, along with an extensive list of features.

Did your motec have any trouble reading the ignition wheel?

www.yawpower.com

I swear he did that months ago

www.yawpower.com

I swear he did that months ago

Phil had the renesis running totally standalone with a Motec 18 months ago. Not just on an engine dyno, but in a car and down the strip. But this is not news. I reported it way back when. That was the 13.0 in the 808 wagon.

The "big deal" is we are doing it in harmony with the RX-8 OEM computer, so we don't loose any of the "nice" things, like throttle by wire, DCS, ABS, Aircon etc.

To be honest, based on our experience with Motec and RX-8, there are some un-truths in that website that I just read. But it is total undeniable fact that Motec do build the best engine management systems on the planet!

Cheers,
Hymee.

I can't wait to get our megasquirt project to this point, the Motec's have muc larger maps and a faster processor, along with an extensive list of features.

Did your motec have any trouble reading the ignition wheel?

When you know Motec's inside and out like Phil does, this did not present us with any problems what so ever.

A couple of engine revolutions and she is all synched up :D

Cheers,
Hymee.

Paul Yaw controlled a Renesis about the same time the first RX-8's were hitting the market for sale. That's how old that article is. At that time he also sold 36-2 trigger wheels to be used with them but no longer does as the Motec can now read the stock wheel. The "truths" that Paul mentioned have long since been updated. That was just the knowledge of the time with an engine on an engine dyno.

RG,

Thanks for that. I don't mind it if I have to say "I stand corrected". Unfortunate that the web-page was not up to date.

I knew someone in the US had run a Renesis "standalone" with a Motec way back then, two years ago. I know Mazda commissioned someone to do it, and I believe it was in relation to the US "power issue".

It was described in the same document that said it wasn't possible to "piggy back" a Motec with the RX-8 CPU. If we had ignored that "current wisdom" of the time, and just invested what we did this week, the S/C would have been out 12 months ago. And who knows what sort of wildly ported engine we could have run in a street RX-8 with a MAF-less tune up?

Cheers,
Hymee.

At that time he also sold 36-2 trigger wheels to be used with them but no longer does as the Motec can now read the stock wheel.

G'day mate,

Actually, the Motec could read the stock trigger wheel back then as well. That is what Phil used on his test engine back when I mentioned.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I've got a 36-2 trigger wheel that came from Speedsource Racing. They had bought it originally to use with the Motec on their race cars. They said at the time the Motec couldn't read the stock trigger wheel but it became available soon afterwards. I'm just going on what they told me.

If yours currently running on the supercharged engine or is it on an n/a?

Guys who cares who knew or who did whatever first , let just get those superchargers up and running whitout major problems on our RX8'S at a reasonable increase in power and price .


B....free
michael

RG,


It was described in the same document that said it wasn't possible to "piggy back" a Motec with the RX-8 CPU. If we had ignored that "current wisdom" of the time, and just invested what we did this week, the S/C would have been out 12 months ago. And who knows what sort of wildly ported engine we could have run in a street RX-8 with a MAF-less tune up?

Cheers,
Hymee.


Misinformation ....is a good way of throwing competition of the track :D , as you have realised sometimes not listening to "current wisdom "
and doing your own research can pay dividends .

As they say all is fair in love and war ;)

B...free
michael

I have a 36-2 wheel on my car as well :D:D:D Stock. Yep, I know you are just going by what they told you. I'm starting to go on what I learn by experience even more and more :) Like I said, if we did that instead of listen to the FUD back then, the S/C would be out by now. Oh well, if you wan't to see a S/C renesis, there will be one at the Jamboree next weekend.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I'd love to see it. Unfortunately it's only about 10,000 miles away!

Guys who cares who knew or who did whatever first , let just get those superchargers up and running whitout major problems on our RX8'S at a reasonable increase in power and price .


B....free
michael


I doubt motec w/ the supercharger be reasonable priced, im guessing this higher quality version be close to the 8-9k range.

Either way I can't wait to see what this kit can do, probably going to be one of the higher quality kits in the future.

I doubt motec w/ the supercharger be reasonable priced, im guessing this higher quality version be close to the 8-9k range.

Either way I can't wait to see what this kit can do, probably going to be one of the higher quality kits in the future.

As i posted earlier there seems to be over 6 different options from different companies with superchargers coming ontu the market in the next few months , so i will sit back and see what they all provide what price and what power figures they put out then i will decide the one that i feel suits best :D


B...free
michael

Can't wait to see a MoTeC sub-forum in the future. Is the fuel map TP/RPM with boost comp table or MAP/RPM? I assume ignition is standard MAP/RPM. Last question, how are the 3 sets of injectors staged in the table?

Marietta 8,

Good technical questions.

At the moment, we are all TPS/RPM, and haven't looped in a MAP sensor - yet. No boost yet while we are N/A. MAP soon when we go FI.

As to the question of the staging of the injectors, that is maybe the tuners secret ;) j/k Honestly, I don't know.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Cool, I thought it was already boosted. When are you coming back stateside? RXeightr is a friend and I am near Atlanta so not too far for a meet. I've run an M4 for a long since 94 and loved it. Sold it with the whole powertrain to a friend so I still get to have a look from time to time.

I'll have the cold drinks (and Jack Daniels) here awaiting the next meet. Marietta8 & Hymee together would be a real treat.

Just name the date Hymee.

Hey guys,

Here is some footage from a while back. It is when we first got the Motec running with the factory computer on the RX-8. In this footage, the Motec is running only the fuel, and the factory computer is doing the ignition.

www.hymee.com/rx8/videos/PDA_MoTeC.wmv
(12.4 MB)

Sorry for the mess with the wires. Grandad will shoot me! But it is here for historical purposes, and everyone can appreciate it was done for developmental purposed. Pictures on the "finished" product can be viewed at the Hymee gets Supercharged (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=36376) thread.

Cheers,
Hymee.