Pg 4-10
"If the vehicle is equipped with the tire pressure monitoring system, the system may not function correctly when using tire chains."

Pg 5-4
"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."

Pg 5-25
"A system error activation [of the Tire Pressure Monitoring System] may occur in the follwing cases:
-When there is equipment or a device near the vehicle using the same frequency as that of the tire pressure sensors.
-When a metallic device such as a non-genuine navigation system is equipped near the center of the dashboard, which may block signals from the tire pressure sensor to the receiver unit.
-When the following devices in the vehicle that may cause radio interference with the receiver unit.
---A digital device such as a personal computer.
---A current converter device such as a DC-AC converter.
-When excess snow or ice adheres to the vehicle, especially around the wheels.
-When the tire pressure sensor batteries are exhausted.
-When using a wheel with no tire pressure sensor installed.
-When using tires with steel wire reinforcement in the side walls."

Pg 7-5
"When using the temporary spare tire on the rear axle, replace it with a standard tire as soon as possible. The size difference between the spare and the standard tire will cause the limited slip differential to malfunction."

Pg 8-4
A chart that lists maintenance intervals: For normal driving oil changes are every 7500miles/12000k! That seems like a long time 'tween changes.

Pg 8-11
"Because you need a special tool to tighten the [oil] filter, an Authorized Mazda Dealer should do the work."

Pg 8-24
"Limited-Slip Differential; don't use the following:
-Tires not of the designated size
-Tires of different sizes or types at the same time
-Tires not sufficiently inflated
If these instructions are not followed the rotation of the left and right wheels will be different and will thus apply a constant load on the limited-slip differential.
This will cause a malfunction."

Pg 5-4
"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."


That is just hillarious! So in other words, it will run if you red line the car, but not if you don't!

Man that is horrible translation

Wing, I think you need to re-read what it says...

I've read it a few times and it makes perfect sense to me.
Maybe the rest of us are the crazy ones.

The thing about using the spare (which I'm not getting) is true. Honda, for the S2000 tells you that if a rear goes flat, jack the car, put the front wheel/tire on the rear and put the spare on the front!:eek:

i love the oil one. No matter what car you have they always say you need a "special" tool to get the oil filter out. My special tool is my hand!

Originally posted by Farsyde
My special tool is my hand! Mine too. But for other reasons. :D :D :D

Nope, bad english. Unless the "red zone" is not "red line"

No, its says you need a special tool to "Tighten" the oil filter, not take it off. I always read that you should hand tighten an oil filter plus add another 3/4 turn.
The only reason you would need a special tool may be because of the difficult access to the filter?
Man I miss the old days of changing the filter on my 1ST gen Rx-7.

Wing, the badly translated redzone statement means that when the engine is cold the fuel cutoff is at a lower RPM than redline to protect the engine. BMW does the same thing on the M3 I believe.

About the Oil Filter tool, the Miata had a similar warning. It's just a cap that slips on on oil filter. You attach a socket wrench to the oil filter and it comes off with little effort. On the Miata, the oil filter is in a awkward location so it's difficult to get a good grip with your hands. It's probably similar for the RX-8.

Originally posted by Wing
Pg 5-4
"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."


That is just hillarious! So in other words, it will run if you red line the car, but not if you don't!

Man that is horrible translation

No, Wing, it is not a bad translation. perhaps you are mis-reading it...To help the understanding, I have added assumed english structures below in square brackets...

"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. [In order to ensure this is the case] The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone. [To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is high, The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm at the red zone]"

Originally posted by ggreen29
Pg 5-25
"A system error activation [of the Tire Pressure Monitoring System] may occur in the follwing cases:
...
...
-When using tires with steel wire reinforcement in the side walls."


I'm not up to speed with my tire technology, but aren't most tires steel wire reinforced?

Maybe something to check into for those that want a stickier or "all-season" tire.

Does it really say oil changes every 7500 miles! I thought rotaries will sensitive to this (pardon my ignorance of rotaries).

How often do we need to check the oil level - is it every fill up (that would be every 3 days for me) as some have previously suggested or a more normal every few weeks like I did with old cars in the 80's. On my current piston engined cars I never check the oil, just get it changed every 3000 miles or so.

Originally posted by pelucidor
Does it really say oil changes every 7500 miles! I thought rotaries will sensitive to this (pardon my ignorance of rotaries).

How often do we need to check the oil level - is it every fill up (that would be every 3 days for me) as some have previously suggested or a more normal every few weeks like I did with old cars in the 80's. On my current piston engined cars I never check the oil, just get it changed every 3000 miles or so.

the sump in this car is pretty darned big, as has been discussed before, and because of the low rate of consumption i believe that the oil-change interval (7500 mi) might take into account that most owners won't top-up their oil?? so in that case, you may not have to check it at all. (but duh, always a good idea)

Originally posted by Wing
Nope, bad english. Unless the "red zone" is not "red line"

Maybe it's saying the fuel will get cut at any predetermined speed according to what temp it is not just if you hit the redline. Most cars you can just start up cold and hammer it. The renesis will prevent you from doing that.

About the oil issue. there are two schedules. One is for optimum driving condition under a good environment, change every 7500 miles. Schedule two who I would imagine is pratically everybody it says change every 5000 miles. On page 8-9 it also recommends Energy Conserving Oils be used, that statement coupled with the 5000 to 7500 change duration tells me they (Mazda) use and recommend using synthetic oils. What do you think it means?

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
...On page 8-9 it also recommends Energy Conserving Oils be used, that statement coupled with the 5000 to 7500 change duration tells me they (Mazda) use and recommend using synthetic oils. What do you think it means?
If that is hinting at using synthetic why are they TELLING the technicians something entirely different? From the technical highlights CD the narrator specifies "5W-20 non synthetic oil" in the segment on the engine. Personally, I don't think 7500 miles would make me think synthetic. 10,000 or more miles, yes. I think from the other threads about oil in this forum we can agree the magic 3000 is more drum-up-business hype than necessity with non synthetics. Doesn't hurt, but no real proof it makes a big difference. I haven't been the best caretaker of my 1st Gen RX-7 but as it approaches 264,000 miles it still goes hhmmmmmmmm. :D Some of the dino oil I've used would make you purists shudder!:p

"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."

Perhaps, it is a hint to take it easy while it's cold and let it warm up before hammering it. IMO, is a good device to protect a high reving engine from those people that is in a hurry by starting then drive off in the early morning. :p

I thought a post here would be good information for a lot of people. My dealership just had specific RX8 training today by a Mazda rep out of California. Some answers to the questions above plus a few extra notes worth having. The RX8 REQUIRES premium gas (91 or higher octane). The manual is strange on the oil changes, in one part is does say every 7500 miles, but in another it says check your oil every 2 fillups, reasoning is the engine is designed to burn oil!!!! the demo we had here today has 2000 miles and has used a 1/2 can of oil already. This is very important for this engine to be able to burn the oil, also, absolutely no synthetic oil can be run in the RX8. The tire issue, the repair kit is adequit for the job, roadside assistance is better, and free. If you use the repair kit, the tire MUST be replaced. The tires at this time are very very difficult to get. They are OEM tires with a special design. They are made to protect the wheels, which are at this time vehicle specific as well, there are no known aftermarket wheels that will fit on the RX8. If you have any specific questions please let me know I will try and answer them, or find out from a rep or someone else that knows the answer.

Richard

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
The manual is strange on the oil changes, in one part is does say every 7500 miles, but in another it says check your oil every 2 fillups, reasoning is the engine is designed to burn oil!!!! the demo we had here today has 2000 miles and has used a 1/2 can of oil already. This is very important for this engine to be able to burn the oil, also, absolutely no synthetic oil can be run in the RX8.
Richard
Why no synthetic?

For those worried about going longer than the oil can, I suggest do maybe 2 or 3 oil ananlysis tests. So go 3000 miles and analyze it. Then if the report comes back good, extend the interval accordingly.

The exact staement from the owners manual is " Energy conserving oils are recommended. A chief contribution they make to fuel economy is reducing the amount of fuel necessary to overcome engine friction". So again my question is, Is Energy conserving oils, synthetic? I think it is, and I think thats what their saying. Its not a hint its in black and white, if we know what it means. Some of you tech junkies wade in. Is energy conserving oil another term for synthetic?

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
They are OEM tires with a special design. They are made to protect the wheels, which are at this time vehicle specific as well, there are no known aftermarket wheels that will fit on the RX8.
So you're saying that that I can't go to Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=EA1&url=/tires/Compare1.jsp&startIndex=0&vehicleSearch=true&width=225%2F&ratio=45&diameter=18&sortCode=53700&minSpeedRating=H&ratio=45&width=225%2F&diameter=18&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&speed_rating=HR&speed_rating=VR&speed_rating=WR&speed_rating=YR&speed_rating=ZR&EAF=Y&make=Mazda&model=RX8&year=2004) and pick the Bridgestone Potenza RE040 (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=EA9&url=/tires/tires.jsp&tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE040&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=245WR8RE040MZ&fromCompare1=yes)? What's the difference between the dealers tire and Tire Racks?

----------
No, Wing, it is not a bad translation. perhaps you are mis-reading it...To help the understanding, I have added assumed english structures below in square brackets...

"To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is low, the engine does not run at high speeds. [In order to ensure this is the case] The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone. [To protect the engine, when the engine coolant temperature is high, The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm at the red zone]"
--------------------

Maybe I speak a different language. I understand what it saying but I still think the translation is horrible! Adding what you added in brackets makes it better english.

"The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."

Should read, the fuel supply will be cut off at a lower rpm than the indicated redline [or redzone].

Maybe I'm picky, I understood it, just that if you read it (without reading it 2 or 3 times) that what the english just seems bad. Simply switching 2 words around in the sentence make a huge difference.

The BMW M3 and the Honda S2000 (amongst others) do the same thing. They limit how high you can rev when the engine is cold (in regular English). Once the engine is warmed up you can go to redline.

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
...Is energy conserving oil another term for synthetic?
Did a quick search for the phrase and found TWO references from the same company.

non-synthetic (http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/100.htm)

synthetic (http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/156.html)

and then here is one for 5W-20 (http://www.cam2.com/c25w20.htm) (non-synthetic)

I now know more about oil than I care to.:p I omitted the links for the EPA letters to manufacuturers about energy conserving oil.:o

Originally posted by Jsuzuki

So you're saying that that I can't go to Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=EA1&url=/tires/Compare1.jsp&startIndex=0&vehicleSearch=true&width=225%2F&ratio=45&diameter=18&sortCode=53700&minSpeedRating=H&ratio=45&width=225%2F&diameter=18&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&speed_rating=HR&speed_rating=VR&speed_rating=WR&speed_rating=YR&speed_rating=ZR&EAF=Y&make=Mazda&model=RX8&year=2004) and pick the Bridgestone Potenza RE040 (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=EA9&url=/tires/tires.jsp&tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE040&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=245WR8RE040MZ&fromCompare1=yes)? What's the difference between the dealers tire and Tire Racks?

I hope they're the same.. Tire Rack said they were.. hmm.. Can anyone confirm?

Originally posted by Wing

Maybe I speak a different language. I understand what it saying but I still think the translation is horrible! Adding what you added in brackets makes it better english.

"The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone."

Should read, the fuel supply will be cut off at a lower rpm than the indicated redline [or redzone].

Maybe I'm picky, I understood it, just that if you read it (without reading it 2 or 3 times) that what the english just seems bad. Simply switching 2 words around in the sentence make a huge difference.
:rolleyes: not that I'm one to argue grammar, but jesus both:

"The fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone" and "The fuel supply will be cut at a lower rpm than the red zone" have, IMO, the same meaning. You throwing the words "off" and "indicated" into the second sentence adds nothing but a little more reading clarity. However, the meaning doesn't change, IMO.

The first one says that the rpm that it cuts at is lower than the red zone [line]. So if Red line ---> | here then rpm cut off is lower than red line.

The second one says that the same thing, but says it like this. RPM --> | here, and implies that the red zone is above that.

I read them all the same, and we all knew what they were getting at...so can we stop this?!?

"Energy conserving oil" can be synthetic or regular dino oil.

Originally posted by RX-Nut
I hope they're the same.. Tire Rack said they were.. hmm.. Can anyone confirm?

Tire Rack is very careful to list only verifiable information on their advertising, and have done so for MANY years. They even list the tire as "Original Equipment" for the 2004 RX-8 (see http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE040&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=245WR8RE040&fromCompare1=yes).

I'm pretty sure they would have checked this out..........

Originally posted by Wing
Maybe I speak a different language....

Well, most Texans would probably say that's the case, but as a displaced Canadian, I suspect we're speaking the same language ;)

great news on the tires :0) I will let my customers know they are avaialble from the tire rack. I will also let the reps know this as well. They knew that they would be available at some time, they just did not think that it was at this time. On the synthetic oil issue, according to the rep that was here today, synthetic oil burns at a much higher degree in temp. and the rx8 needs to burn oil to operate at optimal performance. The best way that it was explained was that you can run synthetic, but it will cause buildup at the plugs and will eventually not allow the car to fire at all. Please note, this is not me throwing in my 2 cents worth, this comes directly from a Mazda Training Rep.

Richard

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
... there are no known aftermarket wheels that will fit on the RX8.
Actually, some of our friends in Japan have already replaced their original wheels with aftermarket wheels. Do you perhaps mean "tires"? If so, Tire Rack has many tires listed for this vehicle.

one other note on the tires, that looks like the correct tire, but please note the availability, Not Available?? But it looks like more vehicles use this tire, interesting, to let you know the advantage to this tire, it has a raised edge that goes out over the edge of the wheel itself. It is designed to protect the wheel. Also, I blew up the picture and it doesn't look like the same tire, but I have not examined it too closely? Anyway, food for thought


Richard

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
, it has a raised edge that goes out over the edge of the wheel itself. It is designed to protect the wheel.

Richard

Just FYI - My Bridgestone S-03 tires I bought from Tire Rack (not for the RX) have this same feature.

It's one of those, geez why didn't anyone thing of it before!

Why do I feel like RX8Seller is a salesman with a lot less info about the car than me.. which is typical of a salesman.. :D
I say that with the upmost respect for the salespersons community.. :)

Originally posted by SPDFRK


Maybe it's saying the fuel will get cut at any predetermined speed according to what temp it is not just if you hit the redline. Most cars you can just start up cold and hammer it. The renesis will prevent you from doing that.

Um... not to nitpick, but that is the worst thing you can do to any engine, piston, wankel or turbine. You gotta gotta gotta go easy till the OIL (NOT COOLANT!) is up to temps. Your bearings, journals, etc will thank you.

And so will your wankel :)

The old Alfa-Romeo owner's books were quite adamant about this, since they were twincam driven by roller chains, wet-sump. Lotsa stuff to break!

Originally posted by jonalan
Actually, some of our friends in Japan have already replaced their original wheels with aftermarket wheels.True, but our overseas brethren do not have the tire pressure transmitters in their wheels. We have yet to discover whether the particular senders that Mazda is using are in fact incompatible with regular afternarket wheels, or whether they're just blowing smoke.

I want to post something regarding 3000 mile oil changes...

Back in the early days of automobile history. 3000 mile changes were appropriate.

But times have changed and so has car technology. Cars really can go a lot further today between oil changes. Fuel injection is probably the biggest factor at keeping your oil cleaner. No messy carburetors now.

When that oil change place puts that sticker up in your window, they always put 3000 miles or 3 months between changes. Even if your car doesn't require it. That's fine if you want to. But all your doing is really feeding the marketing machine.

Do you really think oil goes bad after sitting 3 months in your cars engine? (It only been sitting in the ground for how long?)
It's to make sure people who don't drive as much come in at least 4 times a year.

Let's see 4 x $35 = 140 a year from each customer they have. More if you drive more miles. They are certainly in the business to make money. The more often you come in, the more chances they have to Up Sell you that air filter change, or the transmission oil change, or that radiator flush.

Always follow your manufacture recommend guideline and you should have a happy car. Follow the more extreme conditions guideline if you wish. But don't give in to the oil changing marketing machine.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't check you oil levels and top them off every other fill-up.

3000 mile oil changes are from the past, and why would the oil change places want to change it? That's less $$$ for them.

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
one other note on the tires, that looks like the correct tire, but please note the availability, Not Available?? But it looks like more vehicles use this tire, interesting, to let you know the advantage to this tire, it has a raised edge that goes out over the edge of the wheel itself. It is designed to protect the wheel.


There is nothing special about "Rim Protectors" on tyres. As someone else has already pointed out, the Bridgestone S-03 tyre has this feature, as do a number of other tyres, such as Toyo Proxies T1-S, or the Goodyear F1.

It is simply a feature that tyre manufacturers have started including to give some protection to wheels from kerb damage.


-andy-

Note the Bridgestone RE 040's from Tire Rack are listed as 225/45-WR18 not 225/45-ZR18 as Mazda sez? I'm still thinking the stock tires may be a special OEM spec.

Originally posted by Quick_lude
Why do I feel like RX8Seller is a salesman with a lot less info about the car than me.. which is typical of a salesman.. :D
I say that with the upmost respect for the salespersons community.. :)


I am not doubting that most if not all of the people in this forum know more than me. It is not because I am a salesperson however but more because I am not an owner. All I am trying to do is pass along the information that is being told to us directly from Mazda Reps, just trying to be helpful. The whole tire issue is what a Mazda Rep told us specifically. I am not qualified to state this as fact or not, just repeating what we were told.

Richard

Is "energy conserving oil" just light wt oil, ie 5-20. A local repair shop told me that most of the new cars are requiring 5-20. Thicker oil>more energy to push, thinner oil>easier to push?

True, but our overseas brethren do not have the tire pressure transmitters in their wheels. We have yet to I was going to post excerpts from the manual on this; it sounds like it could be a pain in the rear. It's described as if the valve stem and the sending unit are either one piece or integrated components, with specific IDs. If you change the sending unit you have to allow some time for the receiving unit to adjust to the new sender. There are also a number things that can interfere with the receiver, like laptops and ac/dc converters. The receiver will not recognize the spare tire, so while driving with the spare you will get the warning light...the manual is not clear as to whether or not that includes the accompanying warning chimes, which could be intensely annoying.

If you try driving before the receiver accepts the new sender you'll have to stop the car for 10 to 15 minutes, then try to drive again!

Originally posted by ggreen29
The receiver will not recognize the spare tire, so while driving with the spare you will get the warning light...the manual is not clear as to whether or not that includes the accompanying warning chimes, which could be intensely annoying.I believe the chime only sounds for a few seconds when the light first comes on, rather than sounding constantly until the situation is remedied.

Originally posted by RX8 Seller
one other note on the tires, that looks like the correct tire, but please note the availability, Not Available?? But it looks like more vehicles use this tire, interesting, to let you know the advantage to this tire, it has a raised edge that goes out over the edge of the wheel itself. It is designed to protect the wheel. Also, I blew up the picture and it doesn't look like the same tire, but I have not examined it too closely? Anyway, food for thought


Richard

Richard,

Do you work at a MazdaSpeed dealership? If so, check out the MazdaSpeed Protegé. 215/45ZR17 Bridgestone Potenza RE040 tires. Not the same size as the RX-8 but the same model and in Z rating. I can't imagine them having the same name, but the 18s for the RX-8 being somehow different. Technically, I should be able to get some 18" wheels and put on the same tires as the RX-8 (except of course that I'd probably be scraping the wheel wells).

Steve

P.S. While I agree that salespeople often are not as up to speed on cars as the enthusiasts that study them with passion, I think it says something that Richard is out here on the forum trying to get an education. It would be a lot easier (as a lot of salespeople do) to just gloss over things he doesn't know or read the customer and throw out B.S. that sounds like it is true but just too technical for them to understand. Congrats Richard on having integrity and looking for accurate info. Hope it positively impacts your sales.

just a note to RX8 Seller. the renesis or any rotary does not "have to burn oil". it burns oil as a consequence of the need to lubricate the interior of the rotor housing. the oil is burned during the combustion part of the cycle because of where it is not because it needs to be. thanks for you info from the tech guys!:)

Oil - Mazda had problems with synthetics when they first came out. They have always said "don't use them". The engine does "have to burn the injected oil" because if it doesn't the oil will exit to the catylitic converter and clog it. Synthetic does burn, and at a higher temp. than regular oil. My 2 stroke mc spits it out the exhaust (creating a wonderful mess) because it doesn't burn in the combustion chamber. Most new cars suggest "energy efficient oil". They usually are referring to 5wXX. I don't use it, as it thins out too easily. I use 10W30. I suggest following Mazdas recommendation however, as this is a very high reving. engine.

Tire pressure sensors and tires- My friend (who is still waiting, Mazda Canada) and I were going through the RX-8 Technical Highlights CD and I was laughing at his having to deal with this (and was secretly envious ;) When you change a wheel (buy a new one for example) you have to go through a "special driving sequence" to get the receiver to recognize the new sender (they didn't specify what it was). When the dealer service has to check a sensor, they must ensure no other RX-8 is within range. Most new tires have switched from steel belts to Kevlar. Not at Mazda's request, but because it is very difficult to shred steel belted tires (recycling). They are currently adding them to roadbed material. The Mich. Pilots on my RX-7 have the rim protectors, and they are three years old.

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
....The engine does "have to burn the injected oil" because if it doesn't the oil will exit to the catylitic converter and clog it. Synthetic does burn, and at a higher temp. than regular oil.

i should have been clearer. yes it has to burn that oil. i was trying to point out that what Seller wrote could have been read to mean that the oil was injected for some purpose other than lubrication. once it is there yes burning it keeps everything cleaner and running better by burning it, but it is not injected just to burn. is that clearer?

Despite all rumors to the contrary, here's what the owners manual says about Fuel, page 4-2:

"Your Mazda will perform best with Premium Unleaed Fuel, Octane Rating 91 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (96 ROM or above).

You may use a regular unleaded fuel with Octane Rating from 87 to 90 (91-95 ROM) but this will slightly reduce performance. Fuel with a rating lower than 87 octane (91 RON) could cause the emission control system to lose effectiveness. It could also cause engine knocking and serious engine damage."

They also say use nothing with more than 10% ethanol or any fuel system additives or cleaning agents not specified by Mazda.

I will use a maximum of 89 octane, and I'll probably use 87 octane on occasion. Knowing how these books are written, they are being most cautious and recommend premium to give you the optimum driving experience. Slightly degraded performance of an 8 far exceeds anything I have ever driven so I'll still be happy. With MPG shaping up to be as poor as it appears, I'll offset with 89/87 which according to their manual will still be ok.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
I will use a maximum of 89 octane, and I'll probably use 87 octane on occasion.You just spent $30K on a new car and aren't willing to fill with premium to allow the engine to give you the highest performance it's capable of? This doesn't make sense to me...

Can someone please post the exact text from the Owner's Manual regarding oil here? All of us on the www.rx7club.com have been having this dino vs. synthetic discussion for years.

In short, I would say that Mazda approves of synthetic oil if it is not explicitly stated to not use (as in the Owner's Manual of my '93 RX7).

FYI: Most synthetic oils burn with less ash content than dino and have better lubricating and breakdown properties and handle higher heat. Mobil now recommends Mobil 1 for my '93 rotary on their web site. And Royal Purple is quoted on the official Mazda web site at SevenStock as saying synthetic is fine for rotaries. Many of us on the RX7 Forum have been running synthetic for years. Don't believe anyone has had a motor fail due to lubrication (usually the coolant or apex seals go).

Originally posted by rotary-tt
Can someone please post the exact text from the Owner's Manual regarding oil here? All of us on the www.rx7club.com have been having this dino vs. synthetic discussion for years.
The page from the owner's manual I saw posted just says "energy saving" oils which, frankly, all owner's manuals say. It's generally a reference to the SAE ratings (e.g. SF, SG, SH, etc.).

The manual page did not specifically address the synth vs. dino question, but take this for what it's worth:

The manual specifies 5W-20 oil.

There's only one source for 5W-20 at the moment, and it's a dino oil available at your Mazda dealer...

I use Royal Purple 10W-30 in my 13B-REW.

For your RX-8, the Royal Purple web site has 5W20 synthetic available http://www.royalpurple.com/rpmor/rpmor.shtml

The '93 RX-7 manual explicitly says not to use synthetic. If the RX-8 manual does not explicitly say this, I'm sure it is just fine to run synthetics...

Also, the Formula Mazda series motors are sealed with synthetic oil...

Originally posted by BillK
The manual page did not specifically address the synth vs. dino question, but take this for what it's worth:

The manual specifies 5W-20 oil.

There's only one source for 5W-20 at the moment, and it's a dino oil available at your Mazda dealer...

Actually, the Technical CD SPECIFICALLY says the motor was designed for 5W-20 NON SYNTHETIC oil.

Castrol makes a 5w-20 dino oil. Wal-Mart, Sams, Napa, etc. ALL carry it (I've been shopping for it since seeing the Technical CD).

Originally posted by BillK
You just spent $30K on a new car and aren't willing to fill with premium to allow the engine to give you the highest performance it's capable of? This doesn't make sense to me...

Regardless of what I do I won't get the highest possible performance from this vehicle. That's not how I drive. I don't do power acceleration, rev at high rpms, race down the freeway, whatever. The marginal performance decrease I'll get from lower octane will be far masked by the lower performance style in which I drive. As long as I'm not doing damage to the engine, I'm a happy camper. BTW, we went through the same thing with my wife's BMW 323i. Everyone said you gotta use premium, the dealer and maintenance techs said you gotta use premium, the owners manual said premium recommended but 87 and above is ok. We've been using 87 for four years now and none the worse for it.

And guess what, I'm not going to change the oil at 3000 miles or 5000 miles or whatever. I'm going to follow the owners manual maintenance schedule for the type of driving I do and change the oil every 7500. Of course, I will check oil level and keep it topped off; I realize the Renesis consumes oil. I just don't fall for the corporate hype that tries to push you to get more/better/faster; I'll read the non-hype guidance and do what it says. And I'll sleep perfectly well at night.

Originally posted by tpryor


Actually, the Technical CD SPECIFICALLY says the motor was designed for 5W-20 NON SYNTHETIC oil.

Castrol makes a 5w-20 dino oil. Wal-Mart, Sams, Napa, etc. ALL carry it (I've been shopping for it since seeing the Technical CD).

Well then there's a huge discrepancy (and oversight) between the Owner's Manual and the Technical CD. Looks like Mazda has chosen to let the syn vs. dino debate live on :D

Well if I get an 8 for the 'family' car it will run Royal Purple (after break-in with dino). Waiting to see what bugs come up in the new 8 first. The first year '93 RX-7's had a laundry list of TSB's compared to the '94's and '95's.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Despite all rumors to the contrary, here's what the owners manual says about Fuel, page 4-2:

"Your Mazda will perform best with Premium Unleaed Fuel, Octane Rating 91 [(R+M)/2 method] or above (96 ROM or above).

You may use a regular unleaded fuel with Octane Rating from 87 to 90 (91-95 ROM) but this will slightly reduce performance
Interesting choice of numbers. UK Premium Unleaded is rated 95 RON, so that would mean we will have to use Super Unleaded (97/98 RON) to get the best performance.

More fuel to the oil fire :D

http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

Listed below are the oil viscosities that your vehicle manufacturer recommends for different temperature ranges, as well as the Mobil 1 motor oil that is suitable for your vehicle. You Chose The Following Vehicle:

Make: Mazda (edit)
Model: RX7 (edit)
Year: 1993 (edit)
Engine: 2RTR-1308cc 80 (edit)

10W-30 Above -13° F
You can use Mobil 1® with SuperSyn™ 10W-30 with confidence. This viscosity is also available in Mobil Drive Clean Oil™ and Mobil Drive Clean Plus™ High Mileage formula.

5W-30 Below 32° F
You can use Mobil 1® with SuperSyn™ 5W-30 with confidence. This viscosity is also available in Mobil Drive Clean Oil™ and Mobil Drive Clean Plus™ – both the Newer Vehicle and High Mileage formulas.

Just wondering? why the issue with the oil? I am not an owner of one, but I would tend to believe the people that make the motor, not the oil? Why would anyone that spends this much money for a car that is this special and even risk it?

Richard

Richard, most of the piston cars out there save for some high priced machinery like Corvettes,Porsches still recommend regular oil. While that is adequate, regular "dino juice" still cannot beat fully synthetic oils (PAO or ESTER based) in many if not all performance criteria. So your logic is flawed, if the engine manufacturers really wanted the best for the engine, they would recommend synthetic oils.

The rotary is a little special as we've seen when it comes to motor oil. I've read many threads and I'm still not sure if I would use synthetic or dino. And like I've stated before, if the European and Japanese engines recommend higher viscosities like 10w30, 5w40 I will use those and not the 5w20 that's recommended in North America for most of the new engines, piston or rotary, only for CAFE requirements.

Read this concerning the differences between dino and Royal Purple and let me know if you still like dino: http://www.royalpurple.com/rettech/retwhyrp.shtml

Not sure why the tech CD says no synthetic when the Owner's Manual says it's ok (if it weren't it would explicitly say so like my '93). It would say something like 'synthetic oil would void your warrenty...' If it does not say it then it's ok.

Like I said no one has ever had a rotary die from lubrication problems(or very few, never heard of one on the www.rx7club.com forum). Rotaries blow apex seals from detonation and coolant seals from overheating, etc. I put 135K miles on my '86 driving 7k rpm daily before it died (due to blowing a coolant hose and overheating). Put well over 100k miles on the '79 before selling it and it still ran fine. Now the '93 is on it's second motor (before I bought it with 74K miles) which is very common for the twin turbo REW motor longevity (without proper care). I can tell you that my '93 runs better on Mobil1 or Royal purple than any dino I've put in it. It's common to get a 10 deg coolant temp drop with synthetic...