I wanted this to have a little move visibility since the engine failure thread my not get everyones attention.

It appears that the AT cars are having engines carbon lock due to some owners not driving the cars hard enough, such as people who spend most of their time cruising at low RPM's such as highway driving.

All AT owners need to rev to at least 6,000RPM once every other day, you don't need to drive it like you stole it, just switch over to manumatic mode and hold second gear into the upper rev range. This is very important for engine maintenance.

As we learn more about the issue we will post it here. Good news is the fix is rather simple and fun.

I agree. At 17,000 miles, the dealer changed the spark plugs (as per a hard start bulletin - new battery and re-designed spark plugs) and the old ones were really clean.
I use manumatic at least once a day/drive, and after the car is fully warmed-up, I take it to redline (in second gear, cause in third you have to go to 120mph).
I'm also using premix (motorcycle oil in gasoline) to make it for a weak OMP the AT supposely has.

Thanks 4 the update brillo. I pulled the plugs out @ 8, 12, 16 and 20 (today) K. miles.
The weren't dirty just a little brown on the ends if I remeber reading thats ok. . however I did notice when I did drive like a grandma for 300 mi and then redlined it the tipis and rear bumper/trunk had nice small black specks all over. looks like the carbon builds up fast.

Most trips have a minium of 2 redlines.

I drive my A/T haaaarrddd, I stay at redline--trust me--I don't think I have any carbon build up. :p

^hehehe

keeping the engine clean doesn't mean you have to redline, 6,000 or so should do fine. Red-lining is fun, but to strike a balance between economy and performance, the general consensus is that 6K is good enough.

stickied.

thanx for the info!

I have a question then. I read elsewhere on these forums not to exceed 4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. I'm at 250 right now. Which is it? Should I exceed 4000 rpm and hit the 6k every other day, or should I wait until I hit 1000 miles before doing this?


Thanks.

I have a question then. I read elsewhere on these forums not to exceed 4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. I'm at 250 right now. Which is it? Should I exceed 4000 rpm and hit the 6k every other day, or should I wait until I hit 1000 miles before doing this?


Thanks.

Wait till you reach 1000 miles before hitting the upper revs. You do not have any carbon build up or any other junk in your engine yet. However, I really doubt that you can hurt the engine from revving it....just all the other stuffed attached to it will start falling off. Make sure you break the CAR in. It is not just the engine. Hit 1000 miles and then start driving the tach north every once in a while.

Just read this about clearing carbon by 6000 RPM per day.
Sounds logical, but does it have Mazda approval or support. If so why don't they send us notifications about it??

My poor old car must be choking by now, I drive just 0.8 miles each way to work every day, had the car exactly 12 months and done only 5,500 miles.
About once a month I drive it hard for about 50 miles because I got to get the fun from it.
I have had no problems, but milage at 10 - 14 MPG is rather dissapointing.
Just got the "S" file for engine computer - not noticed any difference so far, any one what this "S" flash version is supposed to do?

10-14 is poor but somewhat expected for such short trips, the car chugs the gas during warmup. I'd recommend the scenic route every now and then for some 6k+ lovin'

Yep, living in the North East with a car that needs warming up for five minutes before driving it less than one mile 4 times a day is really asking for poor milage.
Even so I really love this car.

So when I first got my 8 and was just driving in low RPM's for the brake in. Then one day I let her rip and poof! a big ball of black smoke was behind me. I went to my Mazda dealer and the teck said it was bad Cats and they need to be replaced. Could they have been damaged by the low rev brake in and all that carb build up?... Hmmmmmm.

I get single digit gas mileage (as in, 8-9 MPG). I drive .5 miles to work. The only reason I don't walk is because sometimes I need to drive around on the job. But getting >10MPG really sucks. At that rate I'm afraid reving it to 6k will only make it worse!

But I do it anyways. :)

so how long should i be holding it at 6k... i drive my car fairly hard, always in M and i usally hit the 4-5k mark in 1st and 5-6 in 2nd before changing gears... is this good enough, or should i be letting it stay at that mark for a bit

Anyone running pre-mixed 2-stroke oil should be sure to get the good stuff. Cheap 2-stroke will only deposit more carbon, as it does in a 2-stroke engine.

The type to find is rated ISO EG-D. The "D" rating is the highest spec, and the tests are very demanding, as to carbon deposits and smoke. At 200:1 or above pre-mix levels it is absolutely smokeless and deposit free.

S

so how long should i be holding it at 6k... i drive my car fairly hard, always in M and i usally hit the 4-5k mark in 1st and 5-6 in 2nd before changing gears... is this good enough, or should i be letting it stay at that mark for a bit

take it to redline every couple of outings (I do it every outing at least once), and that should be sufficient.

I get single digit gas mileage (as in, 8-9 MPG). I drive .5 miles to work. The only reason I don't walk is because sometimes I need to drive around on the job. But getting >10MPG really sucks. At that rate I'm afraid reving it to 6k will only make it worse!

But I do it anyways. :)
Yeah, I hear ya brother!
I drive 2 miles to work and my "best" MPG is 11 in an 04 AT.
...and I thought I was the only one getting this kind of (or lack of) mileage.

I guess I'm lucky, my mileage has been around 20-21 mpg with the automatic. Didn't know about runnin in at 6k+, but how can you not. That's the reason we have an RX8... for high revin' fun, although the redline beeeeeep is annoying sometimes.

Any reason the AT has a lower redline then the manual? My guess is the 4 speed tranny can't handle the HP, so they put less intake ports in the motor and limited the RPM to detune it. I think the motor for the AT & MT are the same, so reaching redline for the AT stills leaves over lots of Revs before you damage the engine.

The '06 with the 6 speed AT has more ponies. Probably much better off the line. 4 speeds is just not enough. 1st is too high, and gap between gears is too much. I didn't notice if the redline was increased.

To the best of my knowledge, the limiting factor for the redline was the torque converter....9k would be a hell of a lot of rpm for it to work properly.

I find it a bit contradicting...i thought if you always redline ...engine & tranny life span would be reduced...i can understand why we need to rev it hard to blow out the carbon built...just the contradiction is confusing

:scratchhe

I find it a bit contradicting...i thought if you always redline ...engine & tranny life span would be reduced...i can understand why we need to rev it hard to blow out the carbon built...just the contradiction is confusing

:scratchhe
the engine was built to redline, the parts constructing it are not considered "wear" out parts like the tires, clutch, etc. redlining or driving over 6000 rpm will hardly effect the engines lifespan.

I find it a bit contradicting...i thought if you always redline ...engine & tranny life span would be reduced...i can understand why we need to rev it hard to blow out the carbon built...just the contradiction is confusing

:scratchhe

Rotaries actually suffer less incremental wear from high engine speeds when compared to a piston engine. The lack of reciprocating motion and lack of a valvetrain means that the stress levels at high RPMs aren't that bad. It one of the reasons I got the RX-8, guilt-free redlining :)

yea i hear you all. ive been getting significantly low mpg since i installed my greddy sp2 on my at 04 =(

any solutions?

Rotaries actually suffer less incremental wear from high engine speeds when compared to a piston engine. The lack of reciprocating motion and lack of a valvetrain means that the stress levels at high RPMs aren't that bad. It one of the reasons I got the RX-8, guilt-free redlining :)

so i see often redlining wont hurt the engine...but then i would still assume it will affect the tranny's life span right? :sad:

It would shorten the span if you held the Rpms up for a longer peorid of time. Say whole trip in second doing 6500 rpms.

just a few seconds in the upper rpms wouldn't be detrimental.

crap! I have an 06 with 450 miles on mine and I generally drive it moderately. However, I have redlined a couple of times, and I like to switch to manumatic on occasion and get the revs up to 5K - 6K. Should I be worried about hurting my engine since it's still in the break in period?

I drive my A/T haaaarrddd, I stay at redline--trust me--I don't think I have any carbon build up. :p

Yeah... I'm really not that worried about carbon build up in mine. Haha. Thanks though. :)

At 450 miles you should be following the break in procedures. I think it doesn't hurt to rev it while breaking in, just don't stomp on it to do so. But check your manual to make sure you are following the proper breakin procedures.

I haven't put the pedal all the way down yet, but I have ran it hard a few times.

Hmm.. I haven't pasted 4-5 RPM's yet.. I got the car on Sunday.

Rotary engines need to be driven in the high RPM's to remove the carbon buildup. My friend bought a second gen rx7 from a person who dove it like a granny. I went to go pick it up with him and told him it sounded like it was going to die. He assured me it was fine, made out on the deal for that reason. He drove him home redlining it the whole way, lots of black smoke. The thing ran a world a difference by the time we got to his house.

I don't know about you guys but i hit 9,000 RPMs at least once a day, its just to tempting. I have a manual by the way. Mine has about 28,000 miles on it and no problems, just kept up with the service. I get about 17-19 MPG if i drive conservatively. You know keeping it under 60 on the highway and shifting at low rpms. The way i drive I usually get about 13-15mpg. I have noticed that since its colder out and i have to warm it up longer it has hit my gas mileage bunch but you can't help that. For that reason it has been closer to 13, but this week i hit 16 because of the less time it took to warm up.

Yeah, I sometimes start out a drive saying "i'm going to drive conservatively and keep it in automatic mode this time to save a little gas..." Within 5 minutes I'm paddling and revving :) Just can't resist.

^
^I find myself doing the exact same thing....I start off driving nice and easy and during the last leg of my commute, I put it into manual mode and paddle shift. It's just way too much fun!!

don't know about you guys but i hit 9,000 RPMs at least once a day, its just to tempting. I have a manual by the way. Mine has about 28,000 miles on it and no problems, just kept up with the service. I get about 17-19 MPG if i drive conservatively.
same here, except i get about 19-21 mpg going about 70-80 in mostly highway driving

but i always rev it up till it beeps a few times :)

I saw a few posts about hi revs during break in. I have a 6speed with 65k miles on it. It runs GREAT. I believe the owner's manual didn't say anything about RPMs during break-in, just to avoid full throttle. Procedure may be different for ATs, though.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m63/creekmonster/DSC00420.jpg
This is at 1000 miles
drive over 120 miles a day all highway and 80+ mph with bursts of more
getting about 20 mpg and driving it hard all the time cause its so fun

Over 6500 rpm once every other day?

I do it every gear :).

so i see often redlining wont hurt the engine...but then i would still assume it will affect the tranny's life span right? :sad:

Not really, heats the killer. My guess the stop & go trafflic is the worst.

I like hearing the beeping sound as I redline in 2nd :rolleyes: I've owned my car for less than a month, bought it with 34k. I'm guessing it must've been babied when I bought it. As I drive it harder and harder, I get better and better gas mileage. I'm pretty sure the cat is all gummed up from engine blow by....at least it sounds that way...time for an R-Magic cat ;)

Ever get that cat?

I agree. At 17,000 miles, the dealer changed the spark plugs (as per a hard start bulletin - new battery and re-designed spark plugs) and the old ones were really clean.
I use manumatic at least once a day/drive, and after the car is fully warmed-up, I take it to redline (in second gear, cause in third you have to go to 120mph).
I'm also using premix (motorcycle oil in gasoline) to make it for a weak OMP the AT supposely has.

hi, i'm new here....

what do u mean by u use a premix (motorcycle oil in gasoline?) and why do u do that?

pls advise..

thanks!

search premix.

read..

beers :beer:

thanks a million...

:) :) :)

I like hearing the beeping sound as I redline in 2nd :rolleyes: I've owned my car for less than a month, bought it with 34k. I'm guessing it must've been babied when I bought it. As I drive it harder and harder, I get better and better gas mileage. I'm pretty sure the cat is all gummed up from engine blow by....at least it sounds that way...time for an R-Magic cat ;)

I noticed the same thing. I owned this car for a month and it was getting 16 mpg at first. Not i'm getting 19-20mpg. I always drive my cars hard once in the while.
Maybe it's just because i'm only 18?:rolleyes:

I'm not understanding something here. The posts say to redline or 6,000rpm in second gear - why can't you redline or 6,000rpm in first gear?

I'm not understanding something here. The posts say to redline or 6,000rpm in second gear - why can't you redline or 6,000rpm in first gear?

Because it's second gear. If you do it in first you gotta rev it to 7500rpm. Now once a month you MUST redline it in forth gear!!!!!!!











6000 to redline does'nt matter what gear you do it in. :)

Yeah, I hear ya brother!
I drive 2 miles to work and my "best" MPG is 11 in an 04 AT.
...and I thought I was the only one getting this kind of (or lack of) mileage.

I average about 13-15 mpg.. So I'm right there with you guys.. I seriously don't or will never have any carbon buildup.. This thing hits the redline occasionally..

I redline mine in 4th gear, do you think I'm crazy? I think so

5th and 6th are useless until u unlock the ecu

You can redline your car in 1st or 2nd with out getting a ticket ;)

or 3rd and 4th the the enhanced excitment of might getting a ticket, your call

I would go with 1 or 2 from now on :)

I dont think anyone here with a 4AT has ever redlined 4th :P

duhh, except for me, cus i have a 6AT lol

take off my limiter and give me 50 miles of empty road and i can too :x

I dont think anyone here with a 4AT has ever redlined 4th :P

You've never dynoed?? I thought you guys were bsing me about some fuel cutoff. Now I know for sure.

duhh, except for me, cus i have a 6AT lol

and me...i was at like 118+ last time i checked when i redlined 4th - 6th gear is a different story :icon_no2:

I redlined 4th gear, hit 132 before rev limit

I redlined 4th gear, hit 132 before rev limit

Fuel cutoff my ass.

I redline mine in first, second, third, and sometimes fourth all past 9k RPM. God bless MT's :)

I redline mine in first, second, third, and sometimes fourth all past 9k RPM. God bless MT's :)

As do I, 9000 in every gear. The 8 tends to float after 135. Your MT sucks ATs rule (in this forum). :lol2: How can Taj tolerate a MT fanboy??:icon_no2:

^ mostly cus I still owe him a can of spray paint, and he owes me sushi .............

btw john, wheres my fucking midpipe?

also, phil, I do get a fuel cut off, but in 5th and 6th gear only.........and I must say, u having no fuel cut in the first place just makes me wanaa.........................

steal ur ecu :)

I redline mine in first, second, third, and sometimes fourth all past 9k RPM. God bless MT's :)

Troll:icon_tdow




V- OK small troll then:cwm27:

^ lol he's just kiddin, we hang out all da time, he's a nice person, he's just got some...........problems...........spiders........e tcetc

I redlined 4th gear, hit 132 before rev limit

yeah, rev limit is something i haven't done with my AT - :Eyecrazy: crazy i know, but i haven't honestly had the reason or the curiousity yet to push it that far...i probably will at the next 'cruise' tho watch...haha...

p.s. RENESIS SE3P is ok, he get's a pass - he's also protecting my ecu:)

lol, this "cruise will be my last" I dont think I would live past next friday

I think redline on 2nd gear puts you at around 75mph

Pfft.. Give the damn thing the water treatment every now and then too :) .

I usually redline it in first at least once a day, if not more. If i'm where I can, I often redline it in second as well. With the 4.77 gear, 1st tops out right about 40 mph, and 2nd tops out about 70 mph.

I also tend to drive it in manumatic mode most of the time to keep the motor from lugging around town. I don't usually shift into 4th unless I'm cruising at 50mph or above.

For clarification of the above, mine is the 4AT with the FEED 4.77 rear gear.

I am not sure that you can redline in 4th, at least on the street. I've reached speeds that I should not have been at and never got close to redline in 4th. I was not impressed with the 4.77 gear and presently am using stock gearing. I got the response I wanted by FI.

Yeah, the 4.77 gear is not going to give you anywhere near the acceleration gains that FI does.

to be honest, i thought reving engines hard decreased performance =[

to be honest, i thought reving engines hard decreased performance =[

This is not a PISTON engine. :spank: This is a ROTARY!

Yeeeh baby. I usually redline mine whenever I want to hear the sound. Pretty, pretty sound. It's one of those sounds that it sounds nice, but it'll snap on you if you mess with it. Burrrrrrrrrr...BRWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You can redline your car in 1st or 2nd with out getting a ticket ;)

Not true...:banghead:

Not true...:banghead:
Your speed limits in Canada do not let you exceed first gear red line? Big brother must be alive and well in Canada.

Not true...:banghead:

Thats sucks....

Is lifeworth living if you can't redline first gear?

I've been hitting 7,000 rpm several times a week for a couple years with no noticable change. My engine seemed a bit rougher the last month so I've hit 8,000+ rpm the last two days and the engine is definitely smoother and idles better, though I don't plan to do this often. Perhaps 6,000 rpm is a good figure to minimize carbon with minimal stress on the engine, but hitting 8,000 might be necessary once in a while, say monthly, to thoroughly clean the engine.

yeah thank u for telling me u have to rev it like that every once in a while cuz i baby it alot only cuz of the gas mileage. but is it bad to drive the car in manumatic all the time? cuz i neevr drive it without doing tht i think its more fun and the car drives better that way.

I always drive mine in manual mode and done so for a few years now. I'm only in automatic if I'm on the phone or maybe grabbing a bite to eat on the road. Oh and bad traffic jams are nice for auto too but I usually do manual mode in traffic.

I always drive mine in manual mode and done so for a few years now. I'm only in automatic if I'm on the phone or maybe grabbing a bite to eat on the road. Oh and bad traffic jams are nice for auto too but I usually do manual mode in traffic.

hahah yeah same i was just making sure it wasnt bad for the car or anything. thanks for the help :wavey:

My car I believe is having that issue of the torque converter lock up. I brought it several times to the dealership and its still under warranty and there is nothing that they can do to fic it except putting in a TCM Logic wich helps reduce the problem by 50% and not 100%

What my deal was is that at low speeds, (I have an AT) it was bucking like getting stuck between 2 and 3rd gear. It couldnt make up its mind. So I just wanted to let everyone know that what everyone is saying about this issue is very much true and I will now drive it in manual mode more often.

Thanks for the advice all.

My car I believe is having that issue of the torque converter lock up. I brought it several times to the dealership and its still under warranty and there is nothing that they can do to fix it except putting in a TCM Logic wich helps reduce the problem by 50% and not 100%

What my deal was is that at low speeds, (I have an AT) it was bucking like getting stuck between 2 and 3rd gear. It couldnt make up its mind. So I just wanted to let everyone know that what everyone is saying about this issue is very much true and I will now drive it in manual mode more often and drive my car so it red lines at least once every other day

Thanks for the advice all.

Hey Kim,
Don't forget to redline it at least once per trip. but only do so after it's warmed up.

Good luck.

Hey 09 Factor,

I redline my car today as a matter of fact coming into work this morning...lol
I was babying my car becuase its such a nice looking car. I knew that the Rotary Engine could handle it from previous research that I did but, I love my car way to much that I was scared to do so.

So now, I have an excuse to drive like a guy...lol

Thanks again for the advice. =)

~ Kim ~

If guys drive fast and redline everywhere...how do women usually drive?

If guys drive fast and redline everywhere...how do women usually drive?

Ahh, but some girls drive fast and some guys drive slllllllooooooowwwww. :lol:

Ahh, but some girls drive fast and some guys drive slllllllooooooowwwww. :lol:
Come to Vegas and watch the girls drive:uhh:

Ahh, but some girls drive fast and some guys drive slllllllooooooowwwww. :lol:

But I said usually...

I said 'some'.

it's all mute anyway for us.

Are you getting the accessport?

Ran into my Mazda tech at a local ice cream place last night. He said he changed out a 06 AT engine this week. Had about 18K miles on it, was full of carbon. I'm guessing the owner drove in auto mode all the time and babied it. He agreed with my assesment.

About all this redlining. I red line like a beast because to the best of my knowledge(which isn't too much) Rotary engine bascially means redline all you want it wont hurt. Or am i wrong?

and somethign else i like to do just to be better off the line because of course. the 04 AT has the worst torque ever. I shift car in Nutral.l ALmost redline and shift to Drive and Peeeel out. So my question is. Is this harmful for the car? or is it just good clean fun :D

oh and for me in manual mode. Definitly Get half the gas mileage with it. because the accelration ig uess is more powerful maybe? so it shoots fuel much more. That is my best guess. i love driving it liek that but the gas really kills i mean HALF the mileage that way

Launching is not good for the AT. It may wear your tranny down faster.

aye, don't launch.

I'd been meaning to ask what this automatic thing is on my manumatic? (pause for sarcasm) It would be a totally different (read -- boring) car without the shifter.

Just read this about clearing carbon by 6000 RPM per day.
Sounds logical, but does it have Mazda approval or support. If so why don't they send us notifications about it??

My poor old car must be choking by now, I drive just 0.8 miles each way to work every day, had the car exactly 12 months and done only 5,500 miles.
About once a month I drive it hard for about 50 miles because I got to get the fun from it.
I have had no problems, but milage at 10 - 14 MPG is rather dissapointing.
Just got the "S" file for engine computer - not noticed any difference so far, any one what this "S" flash version is supposed to do?

Even my wife's Subaru Imprezza (normally aspirated) get 10-14 MPG for exactly the reason of short trips.

Ran into my Mazda tech at a local ice cream place last night. He said he changed out a 06 AT engine this week. Had about 18K miles on it, was full of carbon. I'm guessing the owner drove in auto mode all the time and babied it. He agreed with my assesment.


Yeah i agree with what ur saying, i just got my 05' AT ( Free, gotta love parents ) but we just took it in and their replacing the WHOLE ENGINE cus of carbon build up. My mother drove it like a granny, always keeping it in auto mode instead of M, but i guess i really cant complain too much other than that shes a shitty ass driver. A new engine is nice esp at 50,000 miles!!! im excited to get it back, but no excited about the break-in period...:icon_no2:

break it in like you plan to drive it, hopefully hard!

I redline the hell out of it... but its gonna have to wait since the new engine

No really, break it in like you plan to drive it...

And whys that, isnt there a usual break-in period on new engines??? call me crazy but im pretty sure there is lol... :confused:

Do some searching across the net and elsewhere then decide on your own. There's no way I could cover it all here lol.

It's a concept that started with bikes (at least with me) and has been carried over to other types of engines. Very high level, subjective, and controversial, the thought is you want to get everything nice and sealed under the same conditions in which you plan to drive normally. It's even been suggested that you'll get a power bump from it, but like I said, I don't want to start a reglious debate.

Search, research, and decide on your own :)

haha well ill give it some every once in awhile... ill go easy first 100 miles after that though its going to be hard not to reach that redline... :D

Actually, they say the first 100 are the most important lol

lol, sigh so what? rev the hell outta it??? heh something seems wrong here... idk if im confortable with doing that to a brand new engine... anyone other than shell wanta put in their 2 cents?

From what I've read thus far, rotary engines are a bit different than regular piston engines -- they're designed to run at high RPMs. My car is at ~600 miles so far and I intend to go a bit gentle on it until 1,000 miles. I do redline it every few days :)

yeah i know their designed but as for all engines... meh... idk what do to...i still believe in breaking in a car...

The AT trannie with manumatic is awesome, whay would anyone hate on it?

Hey. Im a noobie here. Ive been reading and I think its fine to rev high in the RX8 even with a new engine. Reving high is not going to put a huge amount of stress on it. Now if your flooring it to redline, well then thats a little different and your asking for trouble with a new engine.

I just bought my 8 a little over a week ago, still waiting for the title from the bank:banghead: . However, I had the guys plates for a few days and I was driving it HARD! Is it good to hit 48mph in first :) if not oops lol. Fun to drive and even better to look at, or see people looking anyway.

Ok. So, like I said, I'm a noobie :) . After searching online for some parts for the RX8 I stumbled across the break in procedure. Here it is, follow it if you want.

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

7500 everyday

I did a redline today to release any carbon build up..........................street race story deleted......S.......and it was dead even.

OMG, I just got htis car about 2 weeks ago and this thing is sloowwwww. I have an 06 AT. I didn't know rx8 AT ran 17s 1/4mile.

16's, and we didnt buy this thing to go fast, its for corners... research before you buy...

Ι do not agree with this topic at all.

We have checked the compressions of several RX-8 that do not rev so much and do not stress the engine a lot and found out the their compression compared to other RX-8s (that constantly revving and red lining ) and found out the the RX-8s that do not push their engines to the limits actually had a lot better compression at the same millage.

So people yes you should rev the engine BUT stressing and revving a lot will finally result in decreased compression. I know that many people do not agree with this statement but we have tested this to a lot of cars.

How dare you, sir?! How dare you disagree with conventional wisdom!?! :) (just kidding)

I do know that the only engine my local dealer has replaced is an AT of someone that didn't rev it much at all. It was full of carbon, and the owner didn't know that it was ok to rev a rotary.

That said, what do you mean by stressing the engine a lot? I wonder if the people with the problems you are referring to adequately warm up there engines before driving them hard? The different materials in the engine (iron and aluminum) heat up at different rates. From what I understand, if you rev the engine hard and put high loads on it before it is really warmed up, it is a good way to eventually get coolant in the combustion chamber because of the different expansion rates of iron and aluminum.

Also, people should know that just because the coolant gage shows that it is warmed up, DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOUR ENGINE IS ACTUALLY WARMED UP! I have an oil temp gauge in my car, and the oil temp gauge doesn't even start to move above the minimum (120 degrees F) until the coolant gauge has been at "normal" for 5 or 10 minutes.

Before running with the IntX, I would often keep an eye on the "load" indicator on the scangauge. It was interesting to note that I often saw higher load numbers cruising in 4th gear than in 3rd gear. Depending on the speed, of course.

Pretty much the way I drive is usually redlining once or twice a day, and driving in manumatic mode most of the time. I usually don't upshift to 4th until I get to 50 mph or above. The car seems to feel better and less stressed driving it like that as opposed to leaving it in automatic mode.

I should also say that I do run it pretty hard at the occasional track day. I redline in second in every straightaway, and at the tracks I've been going to (ones with shorter straights), I usually hit 90 to 95 in 3rd gear before getting on the brakes. I downshift to 2nd once I'm at the end of the braking zone, then hard on the gas coming out of the turn in second.

every shift on my car is a redline =]

I wanted this to have a little move visibility since the engine failure thread my not get everyones attention.

It appears that the AT cars are having engines carbon lock due to some owners not driving the cars hard enough, such as people who spend most of their time cruising at low RPM's such as highway driving.

All AT owners need to rev to at least 6,000RPM once every other day, you don't need to drive it like you stole it, just switch over to manumatic mode and hold second gear into the upper rev range. This is very important for engine maintenance.

As we learn more about the issue we will post it here. Good news is the fix is rather simple and fun.





This is my first car I have ever owned (its a 2005 AT) and I bought it with 30k miles on it and then a week later found out about the engine recall and got all that fixed and it's running great I'm about to take it to get the oil changed, basically what I'm trying to find out is:


Before I bought I I have no idea if the owner ever redlined or reved it, should I start now or just ride my baby out until the wheels fall off?

Welcome to the AT club - yours doesn't happen to be silver, does it? If it does, you are part of an even more elite club - The Bastard Stepchildren of RX8Club Club.

I would say go ahead and redline it. High revs don't hurt a rotary like a piston engine - there is no reciprocating motion in a rotary. And you might even blow out some of the carbon the previous owner didn't get to.

Since your car is used, I would get a compression test done before you do any mods to the engine. You've got a long warranty on the engine now, and you want to make sure it is in good shape before you start messing with it.

P.S. - where are you located? We might be able to give you some advice on places to go for work on your car, places to avoid, etc, etc.

P.S. - where are you located? We might be able to give you some advice on places to go for work on your car, places to avoid, etc, etc.




It just so happens to be silver, one of many things I plan to change, Right now and for awhile I'm staying in Austin, TX if you know of any great places please tell, right now my warrenty is good till 100,000. I'm getting a free oil change this week from the dealership.
Basically the only thing I'm really working on is physical mods to the car I.E rims body kit etc.(at least until I get savvy enough with the engine) if you know of any place let me know

You don't want to change from silver - that is the best color! The only other way to get into the "club" is to have an FI'ed AT.

I know Rotary Performance in the Dallas area is supposed to be very good. They were very helpful to me when buying one of their used Supercats.

I would check the regional section and see if there are other 8 owners here from the Austin area.

Definitely take your time learning and modding your car. I tend to do one mod at a time. Spread out the fun, and the dollars :)

I do this everyday on my way home from work. sometimes more than once. 45 minute commute and I do it towards the end so I know it's warmed up and ready. So much fun and the manumatic is wonderfully fun.

Now if I had the money from a different exhaust or midpipe or whatever so I could get a nice growl from it.

What's the minimum speed to hit 6k+ rpm if you hold it on 2nd gear? Wondering if it's possible to do so without going way over posted speed limit everyday. Can you do this without load, i.e. while the car is sitting idle in P or Neutral after the engine is fully warmed up?

Do it on an onramp to a highway - 7.5k rpm is 60 mph in 2nd gear, so you wouldn't be breaking any speed limits. Do it with load - doing it while in P or Neutral is useless.

I just have to ask this question, because it's really bugging me. I know that time and time again we're told that reving the engine in neutral does no good - that there must be a load on the engine. But why is that? If you want to blow the carbon out, why does it blow out better with a load than with no load? Has this been verified - or is it just an urban legend?

If you had the Accessport, it's a simple thing to check. When you car is standing still, you have little to no airflow going into the engine beyond the suction of your engine. So you move very little air, which doesn't really do anything for "pushing carbon out". If you are driving, there is a LOT more air going into the engine.

Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).

If you had the Accessport, it's a simple thing to check. When you car is standing still, you have little to no airflow going into the engine beyond the suction of your engine. So you move very little air, which doesn't really do anything for "pushing carbon out". If you are driving, there is a LOT more air going into the engine.

Also, several of the ports do not open unless you are under load (which can be seen in the AP configurations).

Thanks - I appreciate the reply, but part of your explanation defies the laws of physics concerning the way internal combustion work. If more air went into the engine in relation to the amount of fuel, then the engine would run lean. Engines are designed to measure the fuel and air mixture in the right proportions - the more fuel, the more air. So at a standstill, the engine would need to suck in enough air to mix with the fuel to rev it to 8600, or whatever, or it would stall from excess fuel!

That's where our engine management system comes in. It monitors the airflow via the MAF located in the intake. It varies the fuel mixture based on the airflow coming in. Again, this is where the AP would explain a lot, as you would be able to see the changes occuring in realtime.

Do it on an onramp to a highway - 7.5k rpm is 60 mph in 2nd gear, so you wouldn't be breaking any speed limits. Do it with load - doing it while in P or Neutral is useless.

Not in the 4 speed auto... ~7.5K-7.8K is 70-72mph...

Not in the 4 speed auto... ~7.5K-7.8K is 70-72mph...

Yeowch, sorry, forgot about that lol..

Although I'm sure most cops will overlook doing 70 in a 65 (the expressways nearby are usually 65)

Haha dont worry about it, I hate knowing my auto does that, Im currently trying to sell it and pick up the manual :) no worries

I just got a new RX8 AT a few weeks ago and the owners handbook says don't rev above 7000 during the first 1000km, and don't "race" the engine. Where did you get the 4000 limit from?
Mazda says the engine doesn't need any "breaking in", just don't go crazy. That art of breaking in engines and transmission died off about 30 years ago as far as I know.






I have a question then. I read elsewhere on these forums not to exceed 4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles. I'm at 250 right now. Which is it? Should I exceed 4000 rpm and hit the 6k every other day, or should I wait until I hit 1000 miles before doing this?


Thanks.

I don't see how this is so, the air is not forced into the engine from outside air movement but sucked in by the action of the rotors.






That's where our engine management system comes in. It monitors the airflow via the MAF located in the intake. It varies the fuel mixture based on the airflow coming in. Again, this is where the AP would explain a lot, as you would be able to see the changes occuring in realtime.

I just got a new RX8 AT a few weeks ago and the owners handbook says don't rev above 7000 during the first 1000km, and don't "race" the engine. Where did you get the 4000 limit from?
Mazda says the engine doesn't need any "breaking in", just don't go crazy. That art of breaking in engines and transmission died off about 30 years ago as far as I know.

Not this again....... will post the procedure later.



As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.

During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.

For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.



After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.

.......unfortunately my dealer did a lot of the "breaking in" for me! Prior to the pdi, the guys were giving the car some stick, the mechanics had their fun, and then finally the delivery salesman!







Not this again....... will post the procedure later.



As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.

During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.

For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.



After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.

Not this again....... will post the procedure later.



As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.

During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.

For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.



After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.

I have two points: first, most of the procedures you mention have to with setting piston rings in place to create a better seal. I was not aware that rotary engines had pistons!

And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?

I have two points: first, most of the procedures you mention have to with setting piston rings in place to create a better seal. I was not aware that rotary engines had pistons!

And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?

1) This procedure has nothing to do with a piston engine. Here are some links for you to see where I got this from.

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FAQ/breakin.html

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

Learn about the rotary engine before making snide comments about piston engines.

2) To effectively clear carbon out of your engine, you must be under load. This has nothing to do with air, well it may, but it is not why you need to be under load.

Under load at 6K+ RPM, ALL PORTS will be open clearing carbon from all ports.

In Neutral, the secondary ports will NOT be open causing a buildup of carbon over these ports.

Get it now?

sorry dude, have to shoot you down on this one...maybe you need to check your internet "facts" more carefully.

The first link you are referring to covers "breaking in" of a 13B engine rebuild! The 13B rotary, as found in the defunct RX7, ceased production in 1996. These are not breaking in procedures for a new car, but an engine rebuild, and this engine has been superseded by the far more advanced Renesis motor which is the topic of debate!!

The second link you gave also refers to nothing on running in new cars!

I won't comment on your carbon clearing techniques or the technical explanations for them, other than noting again you are not referring to the new Renesis motor.
Are you running an old RX7??







1) This procedure has nothing to do with a piston engine. Here are some links for you to see where I got this from.

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FAQ/breakin.html

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm

Learn about the rotary engine before making snide comments about piston engines.

2) To effectively clear carbon out of your engine, you must be under load. This has nothing to do with air, well it may, but it is not why you need to be under load.

Under load at 6K+ RPM, ALL PORTS will be open clearing carbon from all ports.

In Neutral, the secondary ports will NOT be open causing a buildup of carbon over these ports.

Get it now?

you are absolutely correct!

load or no load on the engine makes no difference to what the ports are doing!





I have two points: first, most of the procedures you mention have to with setting piston rings in place to create a better seal. I was not aware that rotary engines had pistons!

And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?

And secondly, as I had asked earlier, I still don't understand the concept of requiring the car to be moving in order to rev the engine and blow out the carbon. Unless you have a supercharger or turbo, I was under the impression that the amount of air going througn the intake was controlled by the MAF, which means it shouldn't matter how fast you are going. No? Can someone please exlain this?

No. the amount of air going into the engine is controlled by the throttle plate, which is electronically activated via the accelerator pedal. The MAF senses the amount of air induction, and sends a signal to the computer to control the appropriate fuel injection. If you are only revving the engine with no load on it, there is much less air/fuel going through the engine than if it is under load. More throttle = more air/fuel = more explosion = more carbon blow out. Just turning the engine fast with no load does not optimize blow out.

technically u are correctly, practically makes no difference!





No. the amount of air going into the engine is controlled by the throttle plate, which is electronically activated via the accelerator pedal. The MAF senses the amount of air induction, and sends a signal to the computer to control the appropriate fuel injection. If you are only revving the engine with no load on it, there is much less air/fuel going through the engine than if it is under load. More throttle = more air/fuel = more explosion = more carbon blow out. Just turning the engine fast with no load does not optimize blow out.

I did indeed do "research" on how rotaries work, and from what I can tell, there are no valves in a rotary, and the intake and exhaust ports are connected directly to the manifolds. So that means that all the ports are always open, and when the rotor gets to those ports it will find them all open regardless of RPM, or whether or not the car is under load or no load. I also read that in the newer Renesis version the exhaust ports were repositioned to reduce the amount of carbon buildup.

Also, I did look at that rebuild link, and if you look at the date, it was posted in June 2004. The Renesis had not even been out a year, and so how much experience could they have had in rebuilding those engines? And besides, they are referring to the RX-7 engines.

Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.

sorry dude, have to shoot you down on this one...maybe you need to check your internet "facts" more carefully.

The first link you are referring to covers "breaking in" of a 13B engine rebuild! The 13B rotary, as found in the defunct RX7, ceased production in 1996. These are not breaking in procedures for a new car, but an engine rebuild, and this engine has been superseded by the far more advanced Renesis motor which is the topic of debate!!

The second link you gave also refers to nothing on running in new cars!

I won't comment on your carbon clearing techniques or the technical explanations for them, other than noting again you are not referring to the new Renesis motor.
Are you running an old RX7??

The last time I checked, the rotary engine has not changed dramatically. Even in the RX7's I believe the manuals break in procedure was the same(take it easy for 600 miles). This is why the same break in procedures can be implemented. Hey it's your car. You can do as you wish. I will take my information from REPUTABLE racing teams while you can take yours from who knows were

I did indeed do "research" on how rotaries work, and from what I can tell, there are no valves in a rotary, and the intake and exhaust ports are connected directly to the manifolds. So that means that all the ports are always open, and when the rotor gets to those ports it will find them all open regardless of RPM, or whether or not the car is under load or no load. I also read that in the newer Renesis version the exhaust ports were repositioned to reduce the amount of carbon buildup.

Also, I did look at that rebuild link, and if you look at the date, it was posted in June 2004. The Renesis had not even been out a year, and so how much experience could they have had in rebuilding those engines? And besides, they are referring to the RX-7 engines.

Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.


Apparently you did not do research because all of the ports are NOT open all of the time.


I wanted this to have a little move visibility since the engine failure thread my not get everyones attention.

It appears that the AT cars are having engines carbon lock due to some owners not driving the cars hard enough, such as people who spend most of their time cruising at low RPM's such as highway driving.

All AT owners need to rev to at least 6,000RPM once every other day, you don't need to drive it like you stole it, just switch over to manumatic mode and hold second gear into the upper rev range. This is very important for engine maintenance.

As we learn more about the issue we will post it here. Good news is the fix is rather simple and fun.

^This is from the first page of this thread. Whether you have a manual or automatic, you must be in gear when you are in high rpm for all ports to open and to effectively clear carbon. Hey, don't listen to me. It's your engine that will die a slow death.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151505&d=1265988102

Heres some proof for those who do not believe that the auxiliary ports do not open until high rpm.

Backs up the second part of the post above

depends on what you mean by open! May we just say they are just holes in the side of the rotor housing? There are no valves opening and closing, just the effect of the rotor blocking them or not? Am I missing something here? RPM doesn't have much to do with it, not as much as engine temperature, which is why highway driving is cleaner running than zoom zoom!!
Anyhow the 13B MSP eliminated the carbon build ups in my opinion.






http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151505&d=1265988102

Heres some proof for those who do not believe that the auxiliary ports do not open until high rpm.

Backs up the second part of the post above

I think this one is from Racing Beat's website?





Not this again....... will post the procedure later.



As for break-in, Mazda states that it is not needed. However, if you would like to prolong the life of your engine, they, meaning racing beat and other reliable sources, recommend not reving past 4000 rpm for 600 miles. I just got a new engine and I followed a more tedious break-in procedure. The procedure I followed is a mix of multiple break-in procedures for rotary engines.

During the first 5,000 miles, do not use any synthetic oils. During the First 2,000 miles, do not go WOT. Avoid hard braking.

For the First 1,000 miles, vary the revs as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 4k. After 1000 miles change oil and oil filter.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm of 6k.

For the next 500 miles, vary rpms as much as possible with the maximum rpm being the red line. Do not go WOT. You can gradually raise RPM to red line. Change oil and oil filter after 2,000 miles.



After that, be rev happy and enjoy. This is a mix between all of the methods I have read. This seemed like a decent procedure to me. Mainly, for the first 1,000 miles, you are breaking in the engine. Rotary's are not your mainstream engines and really need a little bit of TLC.

I noticed that Racing Beat is basically using the same recommended break-in procedure for the RX8's that they used in the June 2004 posting for the old RX7's, saying that not much has changed in the rotaries. Racing Beat may be called "experts", but I question if they know what they're talking about on this issue. The engines are NOT the same! If a Mazda engine needs 2,000 miles to break in, and before "full loads" can be put on the engine, then Mazda deserves to go bankrupt! I don't care how "unique" the Rotaries are, and the "exclusivity" of having such an engine gives us such a great feeling, but I'll be darned, and I bet you would be too, to wait 2,000 miles to run your car to the max!

As someone said, it's our cars to do what we want with, but I think a lot of advice given out is not backed up by any evidence, and is in the same category as "old wives tales".

I did indeed do "research" on how rotaries work, and from what I can tell, there are no valves in a rotary, and the intake and exhaust ports are connected directly to the manifolds. So that means that all the ports are always open, and when the rotor gets to those ports it will find them all open regardless of RPM, or whether or not the car is under load or no load. I also read that in the newer Renesis version the exhaust ports were repositioned to reduce the amount of carbon buildup.

Might I suggest that people follow their own advice before chastising others about supposed shortcomings? I am only trying to get to the "truth" about what makes senses for us in taking care of our cars.

Did you read and understand the posts about throttle plate and variable induction valves? If the throttle is closed (at idle, under deceleration, etc.) there is almost NO air going into the engine regardless of engine speed and ports exposed. It's called VACUUM. And, if the secondary and auxillery ports are closed, the intake timing and volume are also affected. You need rpm AND load on the motor to completely open up flow in the induction system; you can't do it sitting in the driveway.

Did you read and understand the posts about throttle plate and variable induction valves? If the throttle is closed (at idle, under deceleration, etc.) there is almost NO air going into the engine regardless of engine speed and ports exposed. It's called VACUUM. And, if the secondary and auxillery ports are closed, the intake timing and volume are also affected. You need rpm AND load on the motor to completely open up flow in the induction system; you can't do it sitting in the driveway.

Thanks for the reply. I do know about how the throttle plate works, and I may have confused people in a previous post - sorry about that! I am aware that at idle the plate is closed, and so their needs to be another source of air to feed the combustion chamber - the same as in any vehicle. So, my only remaining question is, is it definitely a fact that if you rev the car in neutral to say 6,000 RPM, there is not enough air/fuel mixture to blow out any carbon? The throttle plate will obviously be very open, and I would have to assume tht all of the exhaust ports would be used because they would always be open directly to the exhaust manifold. And, isn't it the exhaust ports that we're concerned about cleaning? Why would there be carbon buildup on the intake ports? I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, I just really want to know! What is open under "load" that is not open at "no load"? Is there a reference we can be pointed to?

Yes, you are absolutely correct in your assumptions in my opinion and the throttle plate doesn't "work" as some may think.
I'm not a great believer in "blowing out the carbon" as it's a bit of an old wives tale! Prevention of carbon build up is more important in my view, and that means reducing the amount of potential contaminants into the fuel/air mixture and running the engine at optimum temperature. I also noticed some considerable corrosion pitting in various engine combustion chambers, exhaust ports and fuel injectors, (not on the Rotary), in the main caused by various aftermarket fuel and oil additives!



Thanks for the reply. I do know about how the throttle plate works, and I may have confused people in a previous post - sorry about that! I am aware that at idle the plate is closed, and so their needs to be another source of air to feed the combustion chamber - the same as in any vehicle. So, my only remaining question is, is it definitely a fact that if you rev the car in neutral to say 6,000 RPM, there is not enough air/fuel mixture to blow out any carbon? The throttle plate will obviously be very open, and I would have to assume tht all of the exhaust ports would be used because they would always be open directly to the exhaust manifold. And, isn't it the exhaust ports that we're concerned about cleaning? Why would there be carbon buildup on the intake ports? I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, I just really want to know! What is open under "load" that is not open at "no load"? Is there a reference we can be pointed to?

i have a automatic rx8 and has anyone had a ny elecrical probs?
like my headlights and my gauges start freaking out...
and when it starts blinkin on and off and i hit the gas the car with actually stop.. no matter how fast im going.. and turns back on by itself and im like wtfff!!!
so i have to turn it off and turn it bk on to make it stop.

has anyone had this problem? the battery and alternator tested out good. and i chked all my fuses.. i havent ever touched a wire on the car... so i dont think any of the wires are touching..

any help?

Soaring Eagle,
OK, you go first!
I can top out my 6spd AT RX8 on a very steep hill in 4th gear, while holding approx 6500rpm @107 mph. on my 6spd AT RX8.
Keep in mind that I'm holding the throttle to the floor for at least 2 minutes.
Your turn; HOLD TO FLOOR IN NEUTRAL FOR 2 MINUTES!
Who flowed more air?

Soaring Eagle,
OK, you go first!
I can top out my 6spd AT RX8 on a very steep hill in 4th gear, while holding approx 6500rpm @107 mph. on my 6spd AT RX8.
Keep in mind that I'm holding the throttle to the floor for at least 2 minutes.
Your turn; HOLD TO FLOOR IN NEUTRAL FOR 2 MINUTES!
Who flowed more air?

I know exactly what you're getting at: logic would tell you that of course there is going to be air ramming into the intake at over 100 mph, and so of course there would be more air than if the car were standing still. But, I don't really know if that is the case, and that is what I'm trying to figure out. If more air is going into the chamber, than more gas would also have to be injected in, or else the air/fuel mixture would run very lean. But, if you add more fuel and air mixture, then I would think then the RPM's would have to increase in proportion, and so your 6500 rpm's would go up beyond that. My car at a standstill, with no ram induction, would maintain the 6500 rpm's. But if I raise my rpm's in neutral to match yours, won't I need the same amount of air/fuel to do that? Am I making sense here? I'm honestly trying to figure this out - not trying to be a pain the butt!

Soaring Eagle,
I think you're serious so here we go.
First of all, we are mostly concerned about lubricating the 3 apex seals on each rotor by the injection pump that seeps a little motor oil on them (mine 1/2 quart in 2000miles). Motor oil is known to cause hard carbon, and some cars (even piston engines) that are never reved up much can carbon up, lock seals, and/or chunk off destroying the seals and or rotary.

When I keep reading your understanding of the manifold throtte plate, I don't think you can visualize mechanical issues. Of course you won't need the same amount of fuel air mixture to idle at 6500rpm.

YOU DIDN'T SEEM TO CATCH MY SARCASM. YOU CAN'T HOLD THROTTLE TO FLOOR IN NEUTRAL FOR MORE THAN 1-2 SECONDS OR YOU'LL BANG OUT ON THE REV LIMITER. Then, you'll pull back your foot (partially closing throttle) to cut off some of that air to hold 6500. That might be like me coming back down that steep hill at 6500rpm in 4th gear with my foot not touching gas pedal. When you put it to the floor going up a hill you can hear the air and noise coming out of your exhaust, but way less coming down.

Just get a scan gaugeII and you can program the air flow (MAF). When I track the RX8 I get 175cfm @ 7000rpm when it shifts to third. At idle I get about 7cfm, and there is no way you can get over 40 or 50 cfm by reving in neutral.

Hope this helped, but IMO you shouldn't get into tuning your car.

Just to jump in - I did the test yesterday using my AP

@7500 rpm, 100% load, 2nd gear - 180 grams of air flowing into the engine
@7500 rpm, 10% load, neutral - 80 grams of air flowing into the engine

So basically, that's the effect of that mechanical plate, I guess. To understand the numbers, my idle is 4 grams of air and the max I can get is probably 220 grams of air.

If airflow is equal to power, and power generates heat and exhaust strength, then while I am under load the car will burn more carbon and exhaust more of it.

i have a automatic rx8 and has anyone had a ny elecrical probs?
like my headlights and my gauges start freaking out...
and when it starts blinkin on and off and i hit the gas the car with actually stop.. no matter how fast im going.. and turns back on by itself and im like wtfff!!!
so i have to turn it off and turn it bk on to make it stop.

has anyone had this problem? the battery and alternator tested out good. and i chked all my fuses.. i havent ever touched a wire on the car... so i dont think any of the wires are touching..

any help?

Does it keep happening, or did it just happen once?

[QUOTE=JinDesu;3433740]Just to jump in - I did the test yesterday using my AP

@7500 rpm, 100% load, 2nd gear - 180 grams of air flowing into the engine
@7500 rpm, 10% load, neutral - 80 grams of air flowing into the engine

So basically, that's the effect of that mechanical plate, I guess. To understand the numbers, my idle is 4 grams of air and the max I can get is probably 220 grams of air.

If airflow is equal to power, and power generates heat and exhaust strength, then while I am under load the car will burn more carbon and exhaust more of it.


Okay - this is the info that finally convinces me! I'm one of those people who has sort of a scientific mind who needs "proof" for what someone says is "fact"! I appreciate your patience andd responses!

Incidently, I do have a very mechanical and electrical mind. Starting at age 12, I did complete house wiring and plumbing, and have driven and rebuilt engines (not rotaries) for 50 years!

^no problem. I really wanted to do the above test for a long time, but the snow storm recently kept me from taking the car out. I was finally able to go out for a short stint yesterday to record the values. I was just a little behind REDRX3RX8 though, he put up the CFM information prior to mine lol.

i have a automatic rx8 and has anyone had a ny elecrical probs?
like my headlights and my gauges start freaking out...
and when it starts blinkin on and off and i hit the gas the car with actually stop.. no matter how fast im going.. and turns back on by itself and im like wtfff!!!
so i have to turn it off and turn it bk on to make it stop.

has anyone had this problem? the battery and alternator tested out good. and i chked all my fuses.. i havent ever touched a wire on the car... so i dont think any of the wires are touching..

any help?

I think you might be in for a dealer visit. I wish you luck. I mean the issue could be anything electrically related. Bad connection on an electrical connector Faulty PCM/ECU which is warrantied to 80,000 miles thanks to the EPA. But like I say I think your in for a dealer visit. Just try and find a good one.

I know exactly what you're getting at: logic would tell you that of course there is going to be air ramming into the intake at over 100 mph, and so of course there would be more air than if the car were standing still. But, I don't really know if that is the case, and that is what I'm trying to figure out. If more air is going into the chamber, than more gas would also have to be injected in, or else the air/fuel mixture would run very lean. But, if you add more fuel and air mixture, then I would think then the RPM's would have to increase in proportion, and so your 6500 rpm's would go up beyond that. My car at a standstill, with no ram induction, would maintain the 6500 rpm's. But if I raise my rpm's in neutral to match yours, won't I need the same amount of air/fuel to do that? Am I making sense here? I'm honestly trying to figure this out - not trying to be a pain the butt!

It's all relative to engine Load.

damn i hate going to the mazda dealers.. they are assholes.. and dont even know what they are talking about.. i know its something simple...

You tested the battery, but did you check the connections? Are the connections tight and secure? Clean?

What is the best oil pre-mix ratio for a 2007 RX 8 manual?

What is the best oil pre-mix ratio for a 2007 RX 8 manual?

Swing... and a miss! Wrong forum, buddy. Find your answers in this thread:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=99636

i red line my auto rx8 everyday to clear the carbon inside the engine, i feel better reponsce and better rev responces,

Ahhh Crap!!! I bought my car about 4 weeks ago and it had just had a new engine put in bout 600 miles ago.

I didnt even stop to think that it could still need to be burned in.....


My engine seems to be quite boggy and if I had to estimate the hp Id put it at upper 120's


Is it possible Ive f%$ed up my engine by not letting it burn in?

(I usually shift at 3-4k and occasionally hit 5-6 once or twice a week)

Quick question i dont know when i should change my spark plugs im at 37k and i do what your saying about the red-line almost everyday but i want to know when i should be changing it. thank you

37,000 miles would be a good time to change your plugs. A number of other things are due at around that time including coils, transmission fluid, and differential gear oil.

ooh ok i should go to mazda for this then

um, no

what do you mean i dont know how to do

changing spark plugs is very easy.
do a search on this forum using the search feature for spark plug and you'll find the instructions

what are a good brand for spark plugs?

use OEM.
also known as NGK.

socompro: you really need to do a few searches and find this information on your own, EVERYTHING you'd ever want to know about your car can be found on this forum.

quick question: I live in an area very close to school and my daily driving is all around the campus(damn speed limit is 30 on most roads). Seems 2nd gear 6k rev is still too fast to be neglected by police. Heard some ppl mentioned used gas additive (redline SI-1) can make this situation better, reduce the need for revving the engine? how do you think?

I just do mine in first gear. Not sure about the redline SI-1 - I haven't been following the forums much the last couple years. But Redline usually makes good stuff. I personally use Idemitsu premix with every tank, and I started running a can of BG-44k through it once a year. Read good reviews about it here and elsewhere for removing/preventing carbon buildup. But I only put roughly 5000 miles a year on my car since I got my Miata - use the Miata for daily driving sometimes when it is nice top down weather (plus it gets a heck of a lot better gas mileage :)

So i have owned my first rotory car for about 4 hours now lol. but this is a good thing to know! hope to keep learning about these cars!