this is not about POLITICS. the story on the news stations that led to this rant is a politcal one but i am not discussing that just the news media handling of it. got it?


apparently some Senator,whos name i didnt get, stood up in th esenate yesterday and said something like (paraphrase) "if i read this report to you without telling you it was and FBI agents report on what he saw at our base then you would thinkl that it was about the actions of Nazis or things that happened in the Russian Gulags"

Now the tape cuts and we go back to the desk. "strong words form the senator and he's not backing down up next Tom pops the question at the Eiffle Tower"

2 different channels did that! How about reading the friggin report? or at least excerpts fromt he report that back up what the Senator is saying or at least References from the Senator to the bits that make him say that? Absolutely not. just repeat the sound bite over and over with no facts.

Now i dont agree with the Senator but i dont have the facts either. What i know of Nazi concentration /death camps is disgusting and appaling. Gulags just as bad with repeated prolonged beatings starvation electrocution beatings again etc etc. If that has occured at Gitmo then Read the report on the news with the Senators remarks. but the most they have mentioned is some guiy forced to wear womens underwear and being questioned qhile dogs barked at him/them. that is a long way from Nazi camps but we(i will research it but alot of people will just assume the senator is completly correct) wont know until they actually provide some facts instead of the rhetoric sound bites

This is not a liberal or conservative thing- the news media sucks no matter which side it is.

YUP!!!!

That's why I don't look at the news anymore and read only a little bit from the newspaper. I know online can be just as bad, but I read it there and take it as a grain of salt UNTIL I keep hearing it from different sources.

I too am tired of the "politicalNESS" of these news stations one way or the other, and I've found them to be untrustworthy.

So, ZOOM...I understand what you are saying...

I'm just tired of the media fixation on pointless drivel when there is so much more going on in the world.

For the last few weeks it was either Michael Jackson or the Aruba Girl, yeah I feel bad for her, but you know over in the Sudan thousands of black Christians are being murdred and no one cares.

The UN is proving to be more and more corrupt everyday, with even the head crook implicated now, but anything on that? nope more Jacko and Aruba Girl, with a little bit of runnaway bride thrown in.

The real news seems to be relegated to the streaming ticker at the bottom of the screen on all these stations. A reversal is in order how bout focusing on real news and putting the fluff down on the sticker....

YUP!!!

It's like they are covering world news like the E! channel covers Hollywood...mainly crappy entertainment with 99% fluff underneath.

The news operates on the free market. It tries to maximize the number of viewers so that they can charge more to advertisers. People don't want to know what's in the report. They want to hear about the Jackson trial or the bride or Worlds Wildest Police Chases 5 or When Animals Attack 3. That's what attracts viewers. The solutions are either to convince the "consumers" in the free market they want to watch something factual and substantial or impose regulations on the media, which has everyone yelping about violating the free market.

Zoom, you might want to watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart if you don't already. All news except for public broadcasting is entertainment oriented, and at least with the Daily Show the entertainment comes from revealing the issue, and then satirizing it. The one last night had a segment on the Senator's remarks, and mentioned some of what happened. Prisoners saw the Koran abused in some cases, one was made to defecate on himself and then shown a pack of banana rats and told he was lower than them. They then satirized all the people making Hitler references and how they were hyperbole and only diminish credibility.

problem with news is there is a lot of ppl who blindly listen to everything that is spewed out(my parents are a great example of this!!). So in a sense the media has become a subtle propaganda machine. I'm not saying EVERYONE does this, but unfortunatley there are a lot of people who do not take the time to actually verify with other sources.

Also what is everyones thoughts on the fox news channel? I'm not sure if they do this on purpose but do they purposly try to incite ppl to get pissed off? I saw a report from this news lady who were stating some pretty horrible and untrue things about Canada. Saying how we could be taken over in a heartbeat and we don't deserve to be on the same continent as the US. Now that really really pissed me off.. But maybe she did that on purpose? i dunno..

i'm just rambling now so i'll shut up :) But ya, i totally agree with you zoom


MrJynx

I agree with you 100%. Tom and katie are more important then the things that will effect us for years to come.

The public is condition to have a 2 montue attention span.

Reminds me of the song "dirty laundry"

The media has been burned too many times with false reports. They aren't going to risk it again. I think it's a right-wing conspiracy. Generate false reports that are bound to have the leftist media salivating, and then BAM! prove it false, discrediting their worst enemy and gaining a couple points themselves. ;) ;)

...apparently some Senator,whos name i didnt get, stood up in th esenate yesterday and said something like (paraphrase) "if i read this report to you without telling you it was and FBI agents report on what he saw at our base then you would thinkl that it was about the actions of Nazis or things that happened in the Russian Gulags"... The Senator in question was Richard Durbin from Illinois. What he said was...

"When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here -- I almost hesitate to put them in the record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report: 'On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold....On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.'

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners."

The White House described Senator Durbin's remarks as "reprehensible." No word on the White House reaction to the FBI report or the treatment it describes. As noted above, the treatment went somewhat beyond putting underwear on prisoners' heads.

And while I'm hardly uncritical of the news media, especially that of local stations that care more about runaway brides than American foreign policy, it's not really difficult to find the whole story behind the headlines.

My wife keeps the air conditioner pretty cold in our house too. And I have been known to play loud rap music from time to time. We enjoy torturing each other though.

I suppose we should provide them a robe, fuzzy bunny slippers and ethnically appropriate music. That would be nice and cozy.

One good thing the news media printed yesterday is that GWB's college grade point average was one point higher than John Kerry's. Kerry had 5 D's, and he admitted he told his father that D stood for "distinction."

My wife keeps the air conditioner pretty cold in our house too. And I have been known to play loud rap music from time to time. We enjoy torturing each other though.
Do you also chain each other to the floor of your bedroom and force one another to urinate on yourselves? Well, whatever you do in the privacy of your home is your own business, I suppose.

I suppose they might be fouling themselves to make their conditions appear more harsh. That is straight out of the al-Qaeda training manual.

You know...I am not getting in between you two. :eek:

I will say I miss the days of the great newsman.

I suppose they might be fouling themselves to make their conditions appear more harsh. That is straight out of the al-Qaeda training manual.
Tell you what, Doc. Try chaining yourself to the floor for 18-24 hours and see how easy it is to keep from "fouling yourself." Get back to us when you've done the test.

It's easier if you don't eat or drink.

It's easier if you don't eat or drink.
"I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more."

Well, that will give you an advantage in the test and make it more realistic. Looking forward to hearing the results from you.

Tell you what, Doc. Try chaining yourself to the floor for 18-24 hours and see how easy it is to keep from "fouling yourself." Get back to us when you've done the test.

How do they foul themselves if the evil jailers don't give them food and water? :D

http://images.animationfactory.com/animations/animals/ocean/cartoon_crab_stirring_pot/cartoon_crab_stirring_pot_lg_wm.gif

Looking forward to hearing the results from you.Why would I do that? It wouldn't change your position or prove anything, it would just be a waste of my time.

I go 24 hours without eating or passing stool routinely. I haven't tried not drinking or urinating for 24 hours, but if I ever decide to become a terrorist (or join the special forces for that matter), I'll look forward to the challenge.

If I were an al-Qaeda prisoner in Gitmo, I would soil myself and scream out about my mistreatment at every opportunity, exactly as specified in their training manual.

... apparently some Senator,whos name i didnt get, stood up in th esenate yesterday and said something like (paraphrase) "if i read this report to you without telling you it was and FBI agents report on what he saw at our base then you would thinkl that it was about the actions of Nazis or things that happened in the Russian Gulags"

Now the tape cuts and we go back to the desk. "strong words form the senator and he's not backing down up next Tom pops the question at the Eiffle Tower"

2 different channels did that! How about reading the friggin report? or at least excerpts fromt he report that back up what the Senator is saying or at least References from the Senator to the bits that make him say that? Absolutely not. just repeat the sound bite over and over with no facts. ...

You're just not using the best source for your news. Give National Public Radio a try, why don'tcha? Here's the link to their coverage of the story in question:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4707429
Listen to their coverage of the story. Along with jsh1120's excerpt from the report, this should help quite a bit with filling in the gaping holes left by most network "news" programs.

I completely agree with you, by the way, that the so-called coverage of major news stories by the mass media is terrible. The stories are so truncated in order to fit into a thirty-second slot between the latest entertainment gossip and the live car chase that you're left feeling irritated and frustrated.

The stories are so truncated in order to fit into a thirty-second slot between the latest entertainment gossip and the live car chase that you're left feeling irritated and frustrated.
Maybe even chafed? :p

Maybe even chafed? :p
Nah. I use Gold Bond Powder. :D

Nah. I use Gold Bond Powder. :D

Green, Blue, or Gold Container? :D

Why would I do that? It wouldn't change your position or prove anything, it would just be a waste of my time.

I go 24 hours without eating or passing stool routinely. I haven't tried not drinking or urinating for 24 hours, but if I ever decide to become a terrorist (or join the special forces for that matter), I'll look forward to the challenge.

If I were an al-Qaeda prisoner in Gitmo, I would soil myself and scream out about my mistreatment at every opportunity, exactly as specified in their training manual.


I get dizzy and a bad headache after about 7 hours with no food.

...
Zoom, you might want to watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart if you don't already. All news except for public broadcasting is entertainment oriented, and at least with the Daily Show the entertainment comes from revealing the issue, and then satirizing it. ...
And now we hear that congress, in its infinite wisdom, has decided to cut funding for public television by 25%, that's $100M. The "Entertainment" industry is good for politicians - it makes it easier to ignore what they are actually doing to us.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060902283.html

This isn't meant to personal, so please no one take it as such. I think if you have a problem with the way news is disseminated to you on t.v., there's the internet, radio, and print media to find your information as well. If you went to CNN.com, you would have found the whole story easily. Today, there is even the whole story of Durbin's apology.

I think if you want to blame anyone, you should blame FOX News. I heard the Omnibus for NPR talking about his job and the complaints he gets. One of the interesting things he said was he often receives complaints about news stories on NPR, but he's learned that is common in FACT-BASED REPORTING. Now as most of us who are news junkies know, FOX News is the most watched news. But FOX News is not a fact-based reporting news organization. They are an opinion-based news organization. And although that brings them a wide viewer base, they leave out half of the story. CBS News would probably be the flip side of that.

The point is what? READ, people. Quit being a mindless sheep following the heard because you're afraid of getting bit by the sheepdog. Quit looking for someone on T.V. to tell you you're right to think the way you do because you're afraid to look stupid. It's not that hard to find news on net, just stay away from the Blogs.

Jud

Doc, could you quote that particular part of the al-Queda training manual, or provide a link to it?

I suppose they might be fouling themselves to make their conditions appear more harsh. That is straight out of the al-Qaeda training manual.

Fox's Shepard Smith, as Michael Jackson's limo pulled away from the courthouse after the verdict came down: "This is wrong, and you're a freak!"

Now that's good reporting.

Now as most of us who are news junkies know, FOX News is the most watched news. But FOX News is not a fact-based reporting news organization. They are an opinion-based news organization.
Jud

Well I personally don't give a rats @$$ about how the terrorists, who don't bother to follow the Geneva Conventions either, are being treated. Ya, Ya I know, I am stooping down to their level, such is the life of a person that can hear car bombs exploding daily, has to run for a bunker at least once a week from incoming mortar rounds. But you people on your moral high horses that will never know what it is like to hear bullets wizzing past your head, or to see one of your friends blown up, go ahead and make your judgements from the airconditioned comforts of your own homes. Just remember that until these guys are all caught, the parking lot under your work bldg may be where the next car full of explosives goes off. If you survive I would be willing to bet your idea of how those pieces of crap are being treated will change. Sorry for the rant, just getting sick of reading things like that.

Doc, could you quote that particular part of the al-Queda training manual, or provide a link to it?
Lessons 17 and 18.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jihadmanual.html

It's weird how we never hear how our POWs are treated by the terrorists. I suppose it's because they just shoot them in the face as soon as they find them, so really there aren't any POWs. At least we keep the bastards alive.

It's weird how we never hear how our POWs are treated by the terrorists. I suppose it's because they just shoot them in the face as soon as they find them, so really there aren't any POWs. At least we keep the bastards alive.

As I recall, they are burned and then hung from bridges while the crazies dance and shoot off their guns in the street.

Doesn't change the fact that Gitmo prisoners are either prisoners of war (we caught them shooting at us in Afghanistan) or criminals. Or, just perhaps, there really are a few who are neither (or, WERE neither, but they are now I guess). It's those few that are troublesome to me. I don't have any confidence in the Bush' administration to really dig hard and find out the facts.

There are millions of nut cases out there who will commit atrocities. Letting out a few by accident won't make any difference. I think that, after 3 years, we should let out the ones we really don't know about.

It's weird how we never hear how our POWs are treated by the terrorists. I suppose it's because they just shoot them in the face as soon as they find them, so really there aren't any POWs. At least we keep the bastards alive.

No, they decapitate them and then distribute the tapes of them pleading for their lives to Al Jazeera and Al Arabia. That line of attack wasn't getting the "terrorists" anywhere so they switched to an insurgency and use IED's to attack our soldiers. Don't you watch the news? :D

Jud

Lessons 17 and 18.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jihadmanual.htmlDoc, I hope you read the PDR more carefully than the links you cite. Would you like to cite the portions of the "manual" that instruct the detainee to claim that torture was inflicted when, in fact, it was not?

The "manual" may or may not be an authentic document. But the chapters you cite are instructions to prisoners for dealing with torture, not for claiming it occured when in fact, it did not.

Well I personally don't give a rats @$$ about how the terrorists, who don't bother to follow the Geneva Conventions either, are being treated. Ya, Ya I know, I am stooping down to their level, such is the life of a person that can hear car bombs exploding daily, has to run for a bunker at least once a week from incoming mortar rounds. But you people on your moral high horses that will never know what it is like to hear bullets wizzing past your head, or to see one of your friends blown up, go ahead and make your judgements from the airconditioned comforts of your own homes. Just remember that until these guys are all caught, the parking lot under your work bldg may be where the next car full of explosives goes off. If you survive I would be willing to bet your idea of how those pieces of crap are being treated will change. Sorry for the rant, just getting sick of reading things like that.I suspect that everyone here can understand the frustration and anger that you've expressed, even those of us in the "air conditioned comfort of (our) own homes." Likewise, you have every right to feel cynical about a public that overwhelmingly supported such a (mis)adventure when it appeared it would be a quick and easy walkover but are now disappointed that it didn't all work out as the Bush administration so confidently promised.

Perhaps, however, you can understand that mistreatment of detainees only fuels the insurgency and contributes to the "car bombs," "mortar rounds," "bullets whizzing past your head," and having your "friends blown up" while doing little to assure that "these guys are all caught."

In fact, aiming toward "catching all these guys" is apparently not going very well and is a goal that, like "catching" the Viet Cong, is hardly a realistic option.

Hey jsh, hop over to my "oil thread" You will love my last three posts. Facts, lovely facts...